NU should lead in women’s flag football.
Men's lacrosse
- Thread starter docrugby1
- Start date
NU should lead in women’s flag football.
I suspect it is to make sure that the number of funded scholarships is the same for men and women
An ongoing demographic trend is that women are enrolling in college more frequently than men. According to one source , females now account for 53% of the NU student undergrad population. I believe that would put increased downward pressure on men’s athletic scholarships.
(53/47 doesn’t sound like a lot, but it means there are 13% more female undergrads than males. Nationwide, it’s 56/44, which is crazy.)
(53/47 doesn’t sound like a lot, but it means there are 13% more female undergrads than males. Nationwide, it’s 56/44, which is crazy.)
I think more men are choosing to learn trades like plumbing or welding. It's not necessarily a bad thing.
For what it is worth, if you take the allowed NCAA scholarship limits for NU's 11 Men's sports and 18 Women's sports the respective totals are 148.4 and 128. If you assume football (85), men's basketball (13), and all women's sports are fully funded, if you want to get the men's and women's fully funded scholarships to be equal the other 9 men's sports would be funded at ~60% of their allowed totals (which is in the ballpark of what the soccer coach said).
A number of assumptions in there but it does all seem to square.
the one unclear sport is women's cross country. Their total limit of 18 is in combination with track & field which we don't have so I doubt that is fully funded to 18. Of course lower funding there just lowers the available funding for men's teams if the objective (requirement?) is to have things balanced or at least close to balanced.
Notre Dame v. Duke in the NCAA Finals. Kind of a shame that NU doesn’t field a Men’s team. No reason we wouldn’t be able to compete on a national level with many other elite academic institutions.
NU has the facilities, a possible coach with MLL and NU experience(Scott Hiller) already in place-all it takes is the Title IX creativity and money. NU has the potential to play on Memorial Day.
Don't think any of that is the issue, I'd guess the bigger challenge is getting BoT to agree that in the world of ever more competitive and coveted spots in NU's classes, that we should be giving more of those spots to athletes who they view as "lesser resumés". I don't agree, but has been an issue at other schools
Well, that's ridiculous if that's the reason. Twenty-five or so LAX players in an undergrad population of 8,500 isn't going to dilute the gene pool. And most of these kids would come from excellent private high schools, and may well qualify for admission on their own even without the athletic component. Ditch baseball, replace it with LAX.
I have no ties to NU baseball. I’d rather ditch men’s swimming and diving (relagate them to club status like men’s fencing) and keep baseball.
The reality being; I don’t think either will happen. Need to find another way to add men’s lax. It’s a sport NU can be competitive in immediately; matches up so well with our peer institutions. I agree with @Fitzphile in that the vast majority of men’s lax players are solid students (similar to their female counterparts).
Whatever they do, they should absolutely be ready to make any difficult decision to field a men’s lax team immediately. unfortunately, that’s been the case for 12+ years.
NU is fund raising for a (richly deserved) new stadium for the softball team. My solution is: give Rocky Miller to softball, shut down the baseball program, start men’s lax.
Would suck for the baseball players (should fund them all through graduation if they wanted to stay) but I would make this decision given our long history of struggles there and no real viable path to change that. Whereas I think we’d be very competitive in lax within 5-10 years.
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It’s not happening. The Miller family’s generous donation which renovated the baseball facilities guarantees that baseball isn’t going anywhere. Men’s LAX needs the support of a mega-booster or two if they want any hope of becoming a varsity sport. And that still doesn’t solve the Title IX dilemma.
All that being said, I can’t understand why fans are so quick to disband the baseball program? If the situations were reversed, one where we had a poorly performing men’s lacrosse team and no baseball program, I’d guess many would be calling for baseball as a compliment to our successful softball program.
Return the money to the Miller family. Small beer in the grand scheme of NU 's athletics budget. Softball can use the locker room facilities until the new Ryan Field is available.
Baseball has always been the red-headed step-child of NU athletics. No one follows it. NU is just pouring good money after bad. Follow UW's lead and cut bait and add a sport that actually plays to NU's academic advantage in LAX. While we're culling sports, Men's S&D can also hit the road.
Why isn’t our club lacrosse team playing in the MCLA? It’s the highest level of club lacrosse.
The baseball program has been hapless for its entire existence. A hapless program in a second rate conference. I sort of reject the notion that NU can’t afford to pay for both programs given that other small schools have done it for decades and NU is in the middle of a massive explosion of revenue, but here we are. So I reject that it is necessarily a choice, but if made king for a day and ordered by God to choose between the two… it’s no contest.
Obviously in the real world all the past stuff the goes into it, including the Miller family money, makes that unrealistic in the real world.
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It’s really a shame Spencer Allen bailed on the program…things were trending upward. Who knows if we will ever recover from the Foster era?
It's been done before. Collins resurrected NU basketball from the Bill Foster era.
Why did Josh Reynolds bail on the team so quickly? I definitely thought he seemed to show promise.
Female HS students, as a whole, have been academically outperforming male students for some now, which is why one of the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action nowadays are male applicants, as schools don't want the gender make-up of their student body get too out of wack.
While they have a football team, I don't think that they offer scholarships. In fact I don't think they offer athletic scholarships of any kind. Again if you are talking a competitive men's lacrosse program, you would have a lot of scholarships and that would mean adding a lot of female athletic scholarships or getting rid of almost every men's sport outside of FB and BB. And those are what pays for everything else
NCAA Division I Baseball has a limit of 11.7 scholarships. Men's Lacrosse has a limit of 12.6. So swap baseball for lacrosse and it's more or less even. Simple, no?
While they should be, to the best of my knowledge they are not. It takes women's sports such as Field Hockey, and Lacrosse just to offset the FB scholarship numbers. Woman's lacrosse can give out 20 full rides. (mens can only give out 12.6) Field hockey allows 12. Takes a lot to offset 85.
So in order to be competetive in men's lacrosse, have to have another woman's program or get rid of mens programs we currrently have. Since many of them already do not have full sholarship allocations, it likely means getting rid of several of them
No. I believe NU only allocates about half of that number already because of constraints of title 9. Same with swimming and diving . It is one of the things that makes it hard for NU can compete in men's team sports. Even true in wrestling. But swimming and diving are indvidual sports so individuals can still excel but it is hard to win as a team. Woman's hockey would allow 18 scholarships and allow more men's sports but really hard to do that at NU as there is no place to put it.
Title 9 was devastating to non revenue men's sports. If a school has D 1 Football, have to offset those 85 schollarships. Even worse since NU and many other schools often have more women students than men, they actually have to be giving out more women's athletic scholarships than mens scholarships. Since FB basically funds most of college athletics, they should not have to offset all those scholarships
And the reality of that is that if you can only offer 60% of the available scholarships, you are not going to be competitive. So if you want to add Men's Lacrosse and want to be competitive (which seems to be the reason people keep suggesting it, that they think we would be competitve) you likely would have to eliminate two or more men's sports. Could it be interesting to have a men's lacrosse program? Maybe but it you are only funding scholarships at 50-60% reality is that it would be just as uncompetitive as what it replaced
But it does not do the job because swimming and diving only allows 9.9 scholarships and we probably only give out about half of that so you would only free up about 5. If you are only going to give out 5 scholarships in Men's Lacrosse while our competitors give out the allowable 12.6, you are just going to have another non competitive men's program, so why bother.. Since there are fewer allowable scholarships in men's swimming and diving, probably easier to have a competitive program in it than Men's Lacrosse and even if you can't have an overall competitive team you can still have some outstanding individuals similar to the wrestling program
While I think your comments are reasonable for other sports, for men’s lacrosse I strongly disagree. The Ivy’s are very competitive in the sport despite giving zero scholarships. So it’s clearly not necessary if you have an academic experience kids value. Other schools increase effective aid by stacking academic grants and financial aid. Sure we’d be better off if we’d fully fund the sport but the competitive landscape is very different than in baseball and other sports where more schools field a team.
Also, the average scholarship in lacrosse for a fully funded program is ~28% (12.6 / ~45 on the roster). Going to 60% funded brings that to ~17%. Sure you’ll lose some kids over having to pay for an extra 11% of tuition against a rival but we’re not talking about competing with programs giving full scholarships.
This whole back and forth is ultimately ridiculous. The athletic department has more money than God, it has more money than any departments in the history of departments have. It can fund whatever it wants to.
It isn't about the funds the athletic department has, It is about title 9 and what it allows. They could fully fund swimming, baseball and wrestling and be much more competitive. They could even afford to fully fund Men's Lacrosse without cutting any other sports. As you say, they have the money. But with title 9, it cannot happen without adding additional women's sports and scholarships and there are not many other things they could add.
And even if you add another woman's sport, do you go for adding an additional men's sport or do you fully fund the ones you have to make them more competitive? Then there is the question what that woman's sport should be. Gymnastics, Woman's Hockey? Does it make sense to have one of those without adding a similar men's program alongside? Of the two, Gymnastics is probably easier to add as easier to come up with space than it is to put in hockey rinks. Reality is that what is needed is another woman's sport that does not have a men's counterpart.
Not saying that much of the team would not made up of non scholarship or partial scholarships (same as other programs). But to be successful you need the studs (you know, the ones you give the scholarships to) and without enough of them, we are going to be as uncompetitive and we are in other underfunded men's programs.
As far as the Ivies, one you have established programs and two, they have ways of giving scholarships without calling them that that we do not have. Reality is that if you are going to try to start a program at NU, we would need to be able to use all of the available scholarships and not do some have assed partially funded program
They can just find the woman’s sports too, like many other schools have done with less money than NU.
Right.
Somebody speculated that it's all about the elitism of not granting acceptance letters to more jocks than absolutely necessary? (Presumably the true "jocks" take the scholarships but the non-scholarship players are "purer" students? So offering fewer scholarships keeps the riff-raff out of the student body? But if that's the attitude, then why even field the sports in the first place?)
NU could add women's bowling and pistol/rifle without significant infrastructure costs. Pistol/rifle could perform at Great Lakes .
NCAA Bowling=5 scholarships
NCAA Pistol= 3,6
NCAA Rifle= 3,6
Adding women in these sports might add to NU political diversity
Nebraska and Vanderbilt sponsor women's bowling teams. Many of the other D1 teams are from smaller independent schools in the east or traditionally black colleges. It would not hurt NU to compete against Howard, Florida A&M, and other similar schools
NCAA Bowling=5 scholarships
NCAA Pistol= 3,6
NCAA Rifle= 3,6
Adding women in these sports might add to NU political diversity
Nebraska and Vanderbilt sponsor women's bowling teams. Many of the other D1 teams are from smaller independent schools in the east or traditionally black colleges. It would not hurt NU to compete against Howard, Florida A&M, and other similar schools
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Nice thought but not sure how you add either at NU. I don't believe that there are any bowling alleys on campus at NU. And as for pistol or rifle, I believe both are banned on campus. And if you allow women to have firearms, don't you have to allow men as well?
Go ahead and pick any ones you want
National Collegiate Athletic Association - Wikipedia
Eight conference schools have women’s rowing, and UCLA and USC will make it ten. It isn’t an inexpensive sport, but an option.
Fine but, where are you going to be able to have it around NU? Isn't it generally on a river or something similar?While a smaller lake might work pretty hard with Lake Michigan
