My thoughts on NU retaining Chris Collins

[VBCat97]

Congrats to Coach Collins on winning the Big 10 Coach of the Year Award by leading the Cats to a second place finish in the conference.

Porter Moser did not win the Big 12 Coach of the Year Award. He followed up his first year record of 19-16 (7-11) with a last place finish of 15-16 (5-13) in year 2.

Also, congrats to Gordie on winning the Internet.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Congrats to Coach Collins on winning the Big 10 Coach of the Year Award by leading the Cats to a second place finish in the conference.

Porter Moser did not win the Big 12 Coach of the Year Award. He followed up his first year record of 19-16 (7-11) with a last place finish of 15-16 (5-13) in year 2.

Also, congrats to Gordie on winning the Internet.

Collins winning the award made me choke up and this last statement made me laugh. That’s a pretty full day for an actuary like me. But as Collins said, it’s a staff award - I could not have done it without Al Gore and all of you!

 

[JimStarr777]

Interesting reading. Collins really did serve up a steaming heap of crow to a lot of people on here, didn’t he? Good for him.

 

[Styre]

Congrats to Coach Collins on winning the Big 10 Coach of the Year Award by leading the Cats to a second place finish in the conference.

Porter Moser did not win the Big 12 Coach of the Year Award. He followed up his first year record of 19-16 (7-11) with a last place finish of 15-16 (5-13) in year 2.

Also, congrats to Gordie on winning the Internet.

Once again in Moser's defense, Oklahoma is currently a very respectable #51 Kenpom and #65 NET, and their awful record stems in part from playing in arguably the best conference in the country and a schedule featuring eighteen Quad 1 games. I would not yet lose faith in him if I was an Oklahoma fan.

Ultimately, however, you are what your record says you are, and Collins had a much, much better season by any measurement, deservedly winning the B1G COTY.

 

[Catreporter]

No academic standards to worry about down in Norman so there's that...

 

[Sec.112]

Also, congrats to Gordie on winning the Internet.

No lie!! Take a bow, SD. Then take your victory lap before you receive your metal and the playing of the SDG national anthem. You stuck by your guy through thick and thin, and took all comers pretty much by yourself with a measure of class.

Are there even two people out here who had the slightest bit of faith this would even be an NIT year? I know I didn't. Anyone want to nominate someone else? I can't think of anyone even though we're already seeing the spin.

Good for you for keeping the faith, and fighting the good fight against people who would say anything and everything to rip down the program they supposedly support in the name of "I told you so."

We haven't even hit the friggin BTT tournament, and we're already seeing the changes to the sermons and the missiles firing away at Collins? Really!?!? If you can't take a few weeks to enjoy this, you're out here for other reasons. I hope @CappyNU will consider pulling out the hammer. Enough already.

I'm sure many others understand as I do that you wouldn't have taken this position, SD, if the discussion was reasonable and any decision could have simply taken a natural course. You were out here long enough before this silliness to demonstrate that.

Applause, applause for having the patience to call out this idiocy and the burning, "look at me" need to be correct. Good for you for having your loyalty rewarded and demonstrating what a true fan is.

 

[phatcat]

No lie!! Take a bow, SD. Then take your victory lap before you receive your metal and the playing of the SDG national anthem. You stuck by your guy through thick and thin, and took all comers pretty much by yourself with a measure of class against some real scumbags.

Are there even two people out here who had the slightest bit of faith this would even be an NIT year? I know I didn't. Anyone want to nominate someone else? I can't think of anyone even though we're already seeing the spin.

Good for you for keeping the faith, and fighting the good fight against people who would say anything and everything to rip down the program they supposedly support in the name of "I told you so."

We haven't even hit the friggin BTT tournament, and we're already seeing the changes to the sermons and the missiles firing away at Collins? Really!?!? If you can't take a few weeks to enjoy this, you're out here for other reasons. I hope @CappyNU will consider pulling out the hammer. Enough already.

I'm sure many others understand as I do that you wouldn't have taken this position, SD, if the discussion was reasonable and any decision could have simply taken a natural course. You were out here long enough before this silliness to demonstrate that.

Applause, applause for having the patience to call out this idiocy and the burning, "look at me" need to be correct. Good for you for having your loyalty rewarded and demonstrating what a true fan is.

Agree with this except it is medal, not metal. Is it irony that medals are made of metal? CCC really tested my mettle. I was ready to give up on him.

 

[Sec.112]

Agree with this except it is medal, not metal. Is it irony that medals are made of metal? CCC really tested my mettle. I was ready to give up on him.

I generally did also. Collins isn't perfect at all. I'd guess a strong majority out here waved the white flag also. And many of us said it more than enough.

The difference is that for most of us were cheering for the team to work through the issues, while several just wanted to tear the program down EVERY chance they had. Supposedly, it was because they care about the program but that's complete BS when you're going out of your way to make the program look bad during summer break, September, less than two years after the first NCAA tourney ... or the week of an NCAA bid.

There was never a question in my mind that SDG was all about the best for the program.

 

[JimStarr777]

Gordie blamed the players last year for our struggles. Now he credits the head coach for our success.
I'm on the opposite side of that, with a special thank you to the assistant coaches.

It’s pretty easy to read between the lines here. Collins deserves very little credit for the success this year. That’s kind of a sad position after a team predicted to finish last just finished 2nd in conference.

 

[NJCat]

Agree with this except it is medal, not metal. Is it irony that medals are made of metal? CCC really tested my mettle. I was ready to give up on him.

Don't meddle with CCC......

 

[SDakaGordie]

I woke up to near pandemonium on this thread. That was never my intention in defending Collins.

It comes down to this - in the face of many who thought Collins should be fired, I tried to make an argument (with data as well as intuition) to retain him; that he was worth supporting for the long-term benefit of our program.

Sometimes I think we can be too quick to tear people down, especially when it’s a message board. That being said, I will admit to at times being a frustrated doubter of Boo - and he has delightfully proven me wrong! Collins is not perfect and I have said that. But like many, he continues to grow and excel in his vocation - he was/is worth fighting for as a great coach and ambassador for our great university. Go Cats!

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

It is possible to be both right and wrong with Predictions on how the team would fare and the reasons why.

For instance, my viewpoints were very dissimilar to PWB and in some cases probably still are. PWB touted some players like Big Matt and Barney before they broke out. He was right. I didn’t think there was enough depth in talent to win, I was wrong.

As far as Coaching, I have never thought CCC was the issue. I still scoff at the notion that the AD somehow lit a fire to “force” staff changes and gets a lions share of the credit for the turnaround. Most on here blamed CCC and I feel vindicated on my position that he wasn’t the main issue. where I believe others still “spin” it as CCC got called the carpet and stumbled upon Lowry to save the day. The Collins couldn’t do it crowd were wrong no matter what the spin. Gordie was the most vocal in his support of CCC and I believe he gets a rightfully earned victory lap on that call.

IMO, the only people that called it correctly, had confidence in both The players and the staff because they both did far better than most of us thought possible.

 

[TheC]

I can't remember the last time I thought to myself or heard an announcer exclaim about a brilliant/smart play from a Northwestern player. I guess we had a couple good backdoor cuts and maybe some moves by Young, but nothing like what you described for Krutwig.

I'm calling out one of my own posts from this thread to say, I have now heard it mentioned at least a couple times this year about an NU player making a great read. I've seen it on both ends of the court. The players are basically the same as last year (maybe not Barnhizer who is a coach's kid who seems very smart out there), so I'm led to believe that the coaching stepped up their game this off-season/season. It may be that CCC went back to the lab and figured some things out. It may be the addition and elevation of new assistant coaches. But I'm more convinced than ever that coaching matters and NU is doing a way better job this year. That could be because the coaches are doing better or the guys are more receptive or both.

 

[GatoLouco]

The (few) folks who were still on the CC bandwagon at the end of last season, by default, blamed the players for the disastrous season we had. The alternative could be God hated us or something like that.

The (majority) folks who were done with CC believed we had a decent roster that could do more.

Chances are both sides were, to some extent, right.

 

[NUCat320]

Gosh it’s been an amazing 12 months.

 

[ricko654321]

No lie!! Take a bow, SD. Then take your victory lap before you receive your metal and the playing of the SDG national anthem. You stuck by your guy through thick and thin, and took all comers pretty much by yourself with a measure of class against some real scumbags.

Are there even two people out here who had the slightest bit of faith this would even be an NIT year? I know I didn't. Anyone want to nominate someone else? I can't think of anyone even though we're already seeing the spin.

Good for you for keeping the faith, and fighting the good fight against people who would say anything and everything to rip down the program they supposedly support in the name of "I told you so."

We haven't even hit the friggin BTT tournament, and we're already seeing the changes to the sermons and the missiles firing away at Collins? Really!?!? If you can't take a few weeks to enjoy this, you're out here for other reasons. I hope @CappyNU will consider pulling out the hammer. Enough already.

I'm sure many others understand as I do that you wouldn't have taken this position, SD, if the discussion was reasonable and any decision could have simply taken a natural course. You were out here long enough before this silliness to demonstrate that.

Applause, applause for having the patience to call out this idiocy and the burning, "look at me" need to be correct. Good for you for having your loyalty rewarded and demonstrating what a true fan is.

I am not going to take the time to look back to see what I posted (I probably wasn't really posting on the topic because it wasn't a fun discussion and when we are playing crappy I tend to just stay away from the message board toxicity) but I was supportive of giving him one more year to see if he could rectify things. I certainly did not expect or predict this turnaround, and I thought the stark way Gragg phrased it wasn't ideal for recruiting. But I am cognizant of the challenges of finding a new (better) coach option than CC to come to NU, so I was willing to give him one more year to turn it around - even if I wasn't very confident in that working out.

Thankfully he and the team proved me wrong. It's been a great ride this season, and we still have more to come.

I'm not sure these needs to be recriminations to those that were "wrong" or gushing of praise to those that were "right" though. If you were to look back over the last 3 years, I think SDaka would have been "wrong" 2 of the last 3, and the haters "right" 2 of 3. One very good year from Collins shouldn't give him a lifetime exemption and doesn't make the criticism from prior years (not developing players, lethargic offense with insufficient movement, inability to close out close games etc) invalid. I'm certainly going to first and foremost enjoy the rest of this season, but I sincerely hope this time we can build upon the success and have it not just be another flash in the pan, instead have us consistently perform at a ~.500 level (or ideally better!) in B1G play for multiple years going forward. The way we've played team defense this year feels like it should be a blueprint for sustainable success, but I've seen those types of things falter in subsequent seasons all too often as an NU fan. Team chemistry sometimes matters more than talent or scheme in college sports. Here's to retaining it next year, and for many years to come.

GO CATS

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

It’s pretty easy to read between the lines here. Collins deserves very little credit for the success this year. That’s kind of a sad position after a team predicted to finish last just finished 2nd in conference.

Collins deserves some credit. I have stated that. My feeling was (and is) that he significantly misused his roster last year and the year before, playing unproductive lineups, being very stubborn, running a stale offense, not focusing enough on rebounding and physicality in the post, etc. I have always said that I thought he was an above average recruiter and below average on strategy and personnel usage during the game. We have had plenty of talent these last several years.

Simply by not repeating significant mistakes, Collins improved his own performance dramatically. Surely, Lowery, Battle and McIntosh deserve some (most?) of the credit for many of the other improvements in the team and specific individuals. Beyond that, giving up on the 5-out / stretch 5 experiment shows that Collins has been able to adapt to his personnel, although one could say he was forced to do that. We don't know who spearheaded that effort, but Collins gets the credit regardless.

Ultimately, NU has gone from a numbingly ineffective offensive team at the beginning of the season to something significantly improved, with a new approach that continues to be modified for the better. Collins and his staff deserve credit for that. I'm glad we're playing so well. I think he (and most people here) underestimated some of his/our players and have been surprised by their performance.

Of course I credit the players most of all, with Buie, Barnhizer and Nicholson at the top of the list. In fact, there was a brief discussion in November of how ironic it would be if Nicholson and Barnhizer saved Collins job after being buried on his bench the year before. I mean, it is pretty funny.

 

[ricko654321]

Collins deserves some credit. I have stated that. My feeling was (and is) that he significantly misused his roster last year and the year before, playing unproductive lineups, being very stubborn, running a stale offense, not focusing enough on rebounding and physicality in the post, etc. I have always said that I thought he was an above average recruiter and below average on strategy and personnel usage during the game. We have had plenty of talent these last several years.

Simply by not repeating significant mistakes, Collins improved his own performance dramatically. Surely, Lowery, Battle and McIntosh deserve some (most?) of the credit for many of the other improvements in the team and specific individuals. Beyond that, giving up on the 5-out / stretch 5 experiment shows that Collins has been able to adapt to his personnel, although one could say he was forced to do that. We don't know who spearheaded that effort, but Collins gets the credit regardless.

Ultimately, NU has gone from a numbingly ineffective offensive team at the beginning of the season to something significantly improved, with a new approach that continues to be modified for the better. Collins and his staff deserve credit for that. I'm glad we're playing so well. I think he (and most people here) underestimated some of his/our players and have been surprised by their performance.

Of course I credit the players most of all, with Buie, Barnhizer and Nicholson at the top of the list. In fact, there was a brief discussion in November of how ironic it would be if Nicholson and Barnhizer saved Collins job after being buried on his bench the year before. I mean, it is pretty funny.

I think this is partially accurate but also off base in parts. We ran more post sets last year than we have this year. Our second team offense last year was led by post sets through Ryan Young. We run almost no post sets this year and I would say are closer to “5-out” - eg our big often gets the ball at the top of the key with rub routes coming off him to facilitate the offense early in the shot clock. Though really when it comes down to it, it’s almost entirely a high screen roll based offense with Boo or Audige often swinging low to get the ball with momentum as they get to the screener. And then a number of variations / options off of that, such as increasingly giving the ball off to Barnhizer on the wing to go 1v1 when they are overplaying 0 and 1. And sure Nicholson obviously isn’t anything like a stretch 5, and Tydus can’t shoot outside at all - but a lot of the elements of the “stretch 4 and 5” that are viewed as benefits are still incorporated on D - namely a high degree of switchability for everyone but Nicholson (and even he follows the hard hedge for longer than we would have in a old school system, but later chases back down to the big to relieve the backside help).

The increased emphasis on physicality I agree with you on - seems CC and the other coaches really got them to buy into that - and defense - in the off-season. Whatever heart to heart Chase and Boo had in the off-season or early this year helped a lot too - eg at Rutgers I saw when Boo came back in early 2H he was pressing and made a turnover. Chase grabbed him, put his arm around him and I could see him talking as they went back down the court - presumably saying - hey bud we have the lead, you don’t need to force it just because you have 0 points right now and have had limited minutes due to foul trouble. Let the game come to you and the rest of the guys will pick you up if they keep overplaying you and me. Sure enough Boo started making better decisions after that, and as the game went on it did come to him - he made some clutch shots.

Anyways I agree the offense is different this year than last year and certainly more effective - but I disagree with some of your characterizations as to the differences. Also to say that almost none of the credit goes to CC for it, all to the assistants and the players… really? At the least, he hired the freaking assistants so he deserves credit for that. Great credit is due to the assistants and especially the players no doubt, but it seems very disingenuous to discount the adaptations and improvements that Coach Collins has made over the past year.

 

[IGNORE2]

Wow - delete button on overdrive this morning

 

[IGNORE2]

I woke up to near pandemonium on this thread. That was never my intention in defending Collins.

It comes down to this - in the face of many who thought Collins should be fired, I tried to make an argument (with data as well as intuition) to retain him; that he was worth supporting for the long-term benefit of our program.

Sometimes I think we can be too quick to tear people down, especially when it’s a message board. That being said, I will admit to at times being a frustrated doubter of Boo - and he has delightfully proven me wrong! Collins is not perfect and I have said that. But like many, he continues to grow and excel in his vocation - he was/is worth fighting for as a great coach and ambassador for our great university. Go Cats!

Yet he did not edit it nor did the mods delete it.

This is their way.

 

[IGNORE2]

I think this is partially accurate but also off base in parts. We ran more post sets last year than we have this year. Our second team offense last year was led by post sets through Ryan Young. We run almost no post sets this year and I would say are closer to “5-out” - eg our big often gets the ball at the top of the key with rub routes coming off him to facilitate the offense early in the shot clock. Though really when it comes down to it, it’s almost entirely a high screen roll based offense with Boo or Audige often swinging low to get the ball with momentum as they get to the screener. And then a number of variations / options off of that, such as increasingly giving the ball off to Barnhizer on the wing to go 1v1 when they are overplaying 0 and 1. And sure Nicholson obviously isn’t anything like a stretch 5, and Tydus can’t shoot outside at all - but a lot of the elements of the “stretch 4 and 5” that are viewed as benefits are still incorporated on D - namely a high degree of switchability for everyone but Nicholson (and even he follows the hard hedge for longer than we would have in a old school system, but later chases back down to the big to relieve the backside help).

The increased emphasis on physicality I agree with you on - seems CC and the other coaches really got them to buy into that - and defense - in the off-season. Whatever heart to heart Chase and Boo had in the off-season or early this year helped a lot too - eg at Rutgers I saw when Boo came back in early 2H he was pressing and made a turnover. Chase grabbed him, put his arm around him and I could see him talking as they went back down the court - presumably saying - hey bud we have the lead, you don’t need to force it just because you have 0 points right now and have had limited minutes due to foul trouble. Let the game come to you and the rest of the guys will pick you up if they keep overplaying you and me. Sure enough Boo started making better decisions after that, and as the game went on it did come to him - he made some clutch shots.

Anyways I agree the offense is different this year than last year and certainly more effective - but I disagree with some of your characterizations as to the differences. Also to say that almost none of the credit goes to CC for it, all to the assistants and the players… really? At the least, he hired the freaking assistants so he deserves credit for that. Great credit is due to the assistants and especially the players no doubt, but it seems very disingenuous to discount the adaptations and improvements that Coach Collins has made over the past year.

I would like folks to take a position of whether it’s the HC, the assistants or the players and to what degree - lead to season results. Instead, depending on season outcome, seems like folks prefer to tailor their answers to fit their argument.

I think same answer applies to winning and losing seasons. So what is it?

 

[hdhntr1]

I'm calling out one of my own posts from this thread to say, I have now heard it mentioned at least a couple times this year about an NU player making a great read. I've seen it on both ends of the court. The players are basically the same as last year (maybe not Barnhizer who is a coach's kid who seems very smart out there), so I'm led to believe that the coaching stepped up their game this off-season/season. It may be that CCC went back to the lab and figured some things out. It may be the addition and elevation of new assistant coaches. But I'm more convinced than ever that coaching matters and NU is doing a way better job this year. That could be because the coaches are doing better or the guys are more receptive or both.

I would say it is both coaches and players that elevated their game. Without the buying in and hard work by the players, no matter what the coaches had done, it would not have mattered. It was a team effort.

Really as much of a chemistry issue as anything else. CCC and staff were probably coaching a lot of the right stuff before, but without the buying in, it really didn't matter. But they did and you could see it from early in the season. I felt this team was different and suggested they were worth watching in Dec. However it occurred, coaches finding a way to improve that chemistry, players doing it, combination, it happened and we see the results. When things go well, plenty of credit to go around

 

[PURPLECAT88]

I would like folks to take a position of whether it’s the HC, the assistants or the players and to what degree - lead to season results. Instead, depending on season outcome, seems like folks prefer to tailor their answers to fit their argument.

I think same answer applies to winning and losing seasons. So what is it?

Win as a team. Lose as a team.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Yet he did not edit it nor did the mods delete it.

This is their way.

Cappy would have to answer to this…

 

[hdhntr1]

Win as a team. Lose as a team.

Both Players and coaches worked hard together to get the results

 

[IGNORE2]

I would say it is both coaches and players that elevated their game. Without the buying in and hard work by the players, no matter what the coaches had done, it would not have mattered. It was a team effort.

Really as much of a chemistry issue as anything else. CCC and staff were probably coaching a lot of the right stuff before, but without the buying in, it really didn't matter. But they did and you could see it from early in the season. I felt this team was different and suggested they were worth watching in Dec. However it occurred, coaches finding a way to improve that chemistry, players doing it, combination, it happened and we see the results. When things go well, plenty of credit to go around

That could explain a bad session. Not six in a row.

 

[SDakaGordie]

I would like folks to take a position of whether it’s the HC, the assistants or the players and to what degree - lead to season results. Instead, depending on season outcome, seems like folks prefer to tailor their answers to fit their argument.

I think same answer applies to winning and losing seasons. So what is it?

The point is that, in bad times, someone stuck with a guy and defended him. That’s not an easy thing to do. Others blamed him and wanted him fired. That’s an easier thing to do.

 

[IGNORE2]

Win as a team. Lose as a team.

I can with with that. I struggle the blame the players our admissions in one case and credit the coach in the other approach.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I think this is partially accurate but also off base in parts. We ran more post sets last year than we have this year. Our second team offense last year was led by post sets through Ryan Young. We run almost no post sets this year and I would say are closer to “5-out” - eg our big often gets the ball at the top of the key with rub routes coming off him to facilitate the offense early in the shot clock. Though really when it comes down to it, it’s almost entirely a high screen roll based offense with Boo or Audige often swinging low to get the ball with momentum as they get to the screener. And then a number of variations / options off of that, such as increasingly giving the ball off to Barnhizer on the wing to go 1v1 when they are overplaying 0 and 1. And sure Nicholson obviously isn’t anything like a stretch 5, and Tydus can’t shoot outside at all - but a lot of the elements of the “stretch 4 and 5” that are viewed as benefits are still incorporated on D - namely a high degree of switchability for everyone but Nicholson (and even he follows the hard hedge for longer than we would have in a old school system, but later chases back down to the big to relieve the backside help).

The increased emphasis on physicality I agree with you on - seems CC and the other coaches really got them to buy into that - and defense - in the off-season. Whatever heart to heart Chase and Boo had in the off-season or early this year helped a lot too - eg at Rutgers I saw when Boo came back in early 2H he was pressing and made a turnover. Chase grabbed him, put his arm around him and I could see him talking as they went back down the court - presumably saying - hey bud we have the lead, you don’t need to force it just because you have 0 points right now and have had limited minutes due to foul trouble. Let the game come to you and the rest of the guys will pick you up if they keep overplaying you and me. Sure enough Boo started making better decisions after that, and as the game went on it did come to him - he made some clutch shots.

Anyways I agree the offense is different this year than last year and certainly more effective - but I disagree with some of your characterizations as to the differences. Also to say that almost none of the credit goes to CC for it, all to the assistants and the players… really? At the least, he hired the freaking assistants so he deserves credit for that. Great credit is due to the assistants and especially the players no doubt, but it seems very disingenuous to discount the adaptations and improvements that Coach Collins has made over the past year.

Thanks for posting that. Its why I post my stuff - to get feedback and learn from people who have knowledge and are willing to share it in a constructive way.

But you will note that I said "the assistants deserve some (most?) of the credit for many of the other improvements in the team and specific individuals." That leaves plenty of room either way. Given that most people give Lowery a lot of credit for the defense upgrade, McIntosh and Battle for working with Buie, etc... its not a controverislal statement. You can't really ignore the fact that Buie was with Collins and the old staff for 3 1/2 years before it all came together for him with the new staff.

 

[ricko654321]

I would like folks to take a position of whether it’s the HC, the assistants or the players and to what degree - lead to season results. Instead, depending on season outcome, seems like folks prefer to tailor their answers to fit their argument.

I think same answer applies to winning and losing seasons. So what is it?

40% player talent (including recruiting, partly on the head coach)
25% player development (partly attributable to head coach and assistants)
20% head coach tactics and motivation
15% assistant coach tactics and motivation - though this year it feels higher than that number
Roughly 2/3 players and 1/3 coaches... though there is clearly an strong interwoven relationship between the two at the college level with how recruiting and player development works.

Just to throw some numbers out there at a quick reaction to your question

 

[IGNORE2]

The point is that, in bad times, someone stuck with a guy and defended him. That’s not an easy thing to do. Others blamed him and wanted him fired. That’s an easier thing to do.

Not really. I don’t think it’s easy for someone to call for fitting that has ever employed others. Nor should it be easy to blame the kids. But they are all opinions and carry equal weight in their right to be shared.

I don’t think a single season makes a great coach or Mike Ditka should still be coaching the bears. I think it’s the body of work.

I can accept rewarding a guy with a couple more years for an unimaginable season. Would not want to get locked into another decade based on full body of work.

 

[JimStarr777]

Collins deserves some credit.

Collins deserves A LOT of credit.

 

[IGNORE2]

40% player talent (including recruiting, partly on the head coach)
25% player development (partly attributable to head coach and assistants)
20% head coach tactics and motivation
15% assistant coach tactics and motivation - though this year it feels higher than that number
Roughly 2/3 players and 1/3 coaches... though there is clearly an strong interwoven relationship between the two at the college level with how recruiting and player development works.

Just to throw some numbers out there at a quick reaction to your question

As you point out, in college, HC is the GM and responsible for putting all it together

 

[PURPLECAT88]

You can't really ignore the fact that Buie was with Collins and the old staff for 3 1/2 years before it all came together for him with the new staff.

That's what Pounding the Rock is all about. I guess it's possible that someone on the new staff flipped a switch with Boo, but I think it's much more likely that his hard work and the staff's work with him over the past four seasons has led to this recent success. Guys get better from year to year through hard work, experience and the sum of all their coaching. You can see it with MN, Chase, Brooks, Berry. Veterans whose years of work is finally paying off.

 

[ricko654321]

Thanks for posting that. Its why I post my stuff - to get feedback and learn from people who have knowledge and are willing to share it in a constructive way.

But you will note that I said "the assistants deserve some (most?) of the credit for many of the other improvements in the team and specific individuals." That leaves plenty of room either way. Given that most people give Lowery a lot of credit for the defense upgrade, McIntosh and Battle for working with Buie, etc... its not a controverislal statement. You can't really ignore the fact that Buie was with Collins and the old staff for 3 1/2 years before it all came together for him with the new staff.

Fair enough. Some of the credit I certainly agree with. Most - that's debatable, I think it's about an even split Collins vs assistants but that's wild guesswork.

And B-Mac was on this staff before this year, though I guess he was elevated to formally a coach this year. I think the advice has always been there for Boo (I'd be shocked if they weren't saying almost all the same things about shot selection and decision making and defensive commitment to him for the last 3 years) - but maybe Collins and the staff (including new addition Lowery or newly made assistant B-Mac) just found a better way to message those that made it resonate? Or maybe Boo finally started taking it to heart and learned from his mistakes. It's possible the coaching changed, but it's also possible the player changed.

It's also highly likely that seeing some success early in conference season probably helped solidify the messages that the coaching staff was giving and made the team increasingly receptive to full defensive commitment and playing team ball. One thing is for sure - it seems like the players on this team are way more comfortable with what their roles are than we have been in the recent past. Even as those roles evolve. Winning helps with that (e.g. I bet there would be a lot more tension about reduction in Beran's minutes if we were 8-12 than when we are 12-8).

Whatever it is, it's been beautiful to watch from Boo and from the whole team. And to Lou's point, I am enjoying the ride. Let's keep it going!

 

[ricko654321]

Thanks for posting that. Its why I post my stuff - to get feedback and learn from people who have knowledge and are willing to share it in a constructive way.

But you will note that I said "the assistants deserve some (most?) of the credit for many of the other improvements in the team and specific individuals." That leaves plenty of room either way. Given that most people give Lowery a lot of credit for the defense upgrade, McIntosh and Battle for working with Buie, etc... its not a controverislal statement. You can't really ignore the fact that Buie was with Collins and the old staff for 3 1/2 years before it all came together for him with the new staff.

Btw this is not intended as an attack on you, but the upshot of my prior comment was that personally I don't think that playing Nicholson 25 mpg last year would have made any appreciable difference. 1 because he was not the same player last year (he got stronger over the off-season and waaaaay better at defensive technique), but 2 just because there are so many other things that are different / better this year compared to last year, not the least of which is player role definition and overall team commitment to defense. And those aspects ultimately are driven in good part by coaching too, so you could blame that on Collins for the prior years I suppose. As we seem to all agree, it's an inter-related web of multiple factors - it depends person to person how much you ascribe each of those factors to which participant(s) in the web.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

At some point you have to look at who brought NU to the tournament not once but twice with almost completely different rosters and staffs and give him credit. No other coach has done this feat at NU and he’s done it twice. People were talking about “different variables” from last year to this year to figure out what caused the wins. Look at the common denominator for the two greatest seasons of NU basketball.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

That's what Pounding the Rock is all about. I guess it's possible that someone on the new staff flipped a switch with Boo, but I think it's much more likely that his hard work and the staff's work with him over the past four seasons has led to this recent success. Guys get better from year to year through hard work, experience and the sum of all their coaching. You can see it with MN, Chase, Brooks, Berry. Veterans whose years of work is finally paying off.

Something significant happened for Buie right after the first couple Big Ten games.
He went from "worse than his standard" to "significantly better than his standard," almost overnight.

I had been pointing this out "whats going on with Buie? He and Nicholson really need to get on the same page.... the lob is there... etc" and all of a sudden Buie tweaked his approach and started kicking butt. Since I have to guess, I think it was probably the on-court scrimmaging with Talor Battle and McIntosh that provided the catalyst.

 

[hdhntr1]

I can with with that. I struggle the blame the players our admissions in one case and credit the coach in the other approach.

No one just credited the coach.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Btw this is not intended as an attack on you, but the upshot of my prior comment was that personally I don't think that playing Nicholson 25 mpg last year would have made any appreciable difference. 1 because he was not the same player last year (he got stronger over the off-season and waaaaay better at defensive technique), but 2 just because there are so many other things that are different / better this year compared to last year, not the least of which is player role definition and overall team commitment to defense. And those aspects ultimately are driven in good part by coaching too, so you could blame that on Collins for the prior years I suppose. As we seem to all agree, it's an inter-related web of multiple factors - it depends person to person how much you ascribe each of those factors to which participant(s) in the web.

If you look back, all I ever said about Nicholson last year is that he should be playing up to 10 minutes a game because he had size and athleticism that made him valuable off the bench - but that he needed regular game experience to start making progress. This was in the context of Ryan Young being the starting center, with Nance at the 4. Our Nance/Beran frontcourt just got pushed around. I said that plenty and a small vocal group of people responded by deriding Nicholson, comparing him to Chier Ajou and other lesser players, saying that he sucked because Collins would play him if he didn't. It was pretty frustrating, dealing with the vitriol and illogic. I expressed my fear that Nicholson seemed like a major transfer risk. The naysayers said no Power 6 school would want him. To be very specific, it was HungryJack, Gato and I saying similar things about Big Matt.

In the end, it turns out we were right and I couldn't be happier for him.