New Daily Herald article on Fitz

[IGNORE2]

Don’t be silly. In fact, I said in a previous post that this isn’t like a prison. It’s a stupid comparison meant to discredit my question to others that have been in a D1 locker room if they felt it was at all likely this situation of junk bouncing could have happened year after year. My experience says no way no how! Fighting back in a football locker is in no way shape or form the same as it is in a prison with violent criminals and you know that. Again, my question is, do people believe players were restrained by other players and sexually violated due to some type of sick tradition that players carried on year and year?

I answered your question honestly with most sincerity I can muster. So…

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Your use of ‘alpha’ is pretty cringe, first of all. Secondly, even if the entire football team is full of ‘alphas’ as you proclaim, there will be those on the team who are comparatively less ‘alpha’ than others on the team, even if they are more ‘alpha’ when compared to the general population.

You know who else would be considered ‘alpha’ under your definition? Violent criminals. Yet, violent criminals get violated in prison all the time by other criminals more psychopathic than they are.

Guy with the handle “meaty penis” is lecturing others on “alpha” males…hilarious!

 

[peatymeanis]

Don’t be silly. In fact, I said in a previous post that this isn’t like a prison. It’s a stupid comparison meant to discredit my question to others that have been in a D1 locker room if they felt it was at all likely this situation of junk bouncing could have happened year after year. My experience says no way no how! Fighting back in a football locker is in no way shape or form the same as it is in a prison with violent criminals and you know that. Again, my question is, do people believe players were restrained by other players and sexually violated due to some type of sick tradition that players carried on year and year?

Fine, you don't like the prison analogy? How about the military? Are marines who get hazed not alpha enough to fight back?

In one notional example underscoring their research, they profile "Darrius Ima," a Marine Corps drill instructor who himself was hazed as a recruit and believes he's justified in passing down the tradition.

"Darrius believes, not only that there is a low probability of him being caught and reprimanded for the hazing but also that, and erroneously so, that the majority of the Marines community values hazing," the authors write. " ... In sum, Darrius is morally disengaged around the issue of hazing. He tries to justify his conduct by offering a purely positive rationale for hazing -- e.g., that it builds bonds."

Parks, a professor of law at Wake Forest University and expert on all kinds of hazing who spoke to Military.com Feb. 5, said changing a cultural perspective on an issue such as hazing can be a lengthy process.

"Organizational culture is crucial," he said. "What are the dynamics at play within an organization over the course of maybe decades or generations, and why is it hard to disentangle that. It makes it very difficult to swim upstream and buck the system when you receive a lot of critical feedback from peers."

He added that the military, and particularly the Marine Corps, which demands and prizes high levels of physical prowess and mental toughness, may be more prone to training and rituals that cross the line into hazing.

"There are these physical components, but there's also the psychological aspect of putting people through the paces," he said. "It's probably easier to amplify that."

Hmm, sounds familiar

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Ok, so requiring freshman to sing the fight song is a fireable offense? It meets Illinois definition. Sounds reasonable…..

Illinois require bodily injury.
So no - people being encouraged (forced?) to sing is not hazing per state of Illinois.

 

[phatcat]

Your general position is that running — Purge masks, darkened shower area, veteran player d*cks hitting multiple parts of inexperienced player bodies — couldn’t possibly have happened.

No tough football player in a new environment on a new campus among new veterans at a new level of completion would ever let d*cks swing at their face, regardless of what multiple former players have said in lawsuits.

By holding this opinion, you are basically declaring every source that has done original reporting — ESPN, The Athletic, and that’s about it — to have inadequate fact checking capabilities and to have relied on a series of conspiratorially dishonest sources.

It’s fine that your choosing this belief, but there’s a minuscule chance that the facts of the situation bear this out.


Aside:
In looking back at the ‘may have erred’ release and the firing release (the two-week suspension release has been removed from NU’s site), it’s interesting that the word ‘sexualized’ or ‘degrading’ didn’t appear until the firing.

I wonder if Schill didn’t know or if they tried to bury that salient detail. (Removing those words certainly led to the ‘nothing to see here’ response to many on the board. ‘Probably some skits, have a great weekend!’)

Thanks, I have no idea how to look up a post #.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Your general position is that running — Purge masks, darkened shower area, veteran player d*cks hitting multiple parts of inexperienced player bodies — couldn’t possibly have happened.

My understanding is that "running" did not involve naked players. It was (as alleged) dry humping of a restrained, clothed team member by clothed teammates who sometimes wore "Purge" masks... generally for some behavior that did not meet team standards, It is also alleged to have happened in the dorms during Kenosha training camp, apparently to terrorize the freshmen.

The other questionable tradition (the annual carwash) involved naked players having to push their way through a narrow gauntlet of spinning naked teammates to reach the shower. Nobody has alleged anything overtly sexual beyond that. It was considered a rite of initiation by most of the players.

Can we at least agree on what is alleged to have happened?

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Thanks, I have no idea how to look up a post #.

The post number is in the upper right hand corner of every post. This is post #127; yours was #125.

 

[NUCat320]

My understanding is that "running" did not involve naked players. It was (as alleged) dry humping of a restrained, clothed team member by clothed teammates who sometimes wore "Purge" masks... generally for some behavior that did not meet team standards, It is also alleged to have happened in the dorms during Kenosha training camp, apparently to terrorize the freshmen.

The other questionable tradition (the annual carwash) involved naked players having to push their way through a narrow gauntlet of spinning naked teammates to reach the shower. Nobody has alleged anything overtly sexual beyond that. It was considered a rite of initiation by most of the players.

Can we at least agree on what is alleged to have happened?

See, none of the reporting has never defined ‘dry humping’ as it pertains to running. Dry humping, per the internet, can mean clothed or unclothed penis, and clothed or unclothed partner (or, for those unlucky enough to be on the bottom bunk freshman year, just your roomie and his pillow).


Enjoy:

What Is Dry Humping?

Dry humping means rubbing your genitals against someone or something through your clothes. Learn more about dry humping and what it means in relationships.

www.webmd.com

Because this took place in showers, and because car washing preceded it, I think we likely had bare d*cks whacking bare body parts. But who’s to know!?

This is where we are: Clothed, restrained freshman being grinded on by a masked, dominant veteran. Ehhh, not so bad, right?

I’m not sure what you’ve written is a defense. Definitely NOTHING HAPPENED CUZ I DIDNT SEE IT is the best thing to go with.

 

[NUCat320]

Thanks, I have no idea how to look up a post #.

This is what PPD initially wrote.

320, I think I made my position known ad nauseam, so I won’t repeat that detail.

Yes, I believe “something” happened. The disconnect might be what was forced participation and what is the definition of hazing. I struggle mightily to jump to the conclusion that players were held down against their will and had other players d*cks smashed all over their bodies. I also have issues that team leaders would allow this to happen when the victims were obviously in distress. Doesn’t make any sense to me. I certainly could see guys thinking the car wash was funny and set up some type of blockage to exit. Stupid and should be punished. I don’t see that as sexual assault. So in short, I agree that there likely were stupid acts perpetrated on players that weren’t popular in the room. There should be some ramifications against the perpetrators. However, to say the HC must have known or even should have known is what will ultimately be disproved. Hazing is defined differently by people. Singing the fight song, drinking a shot, carrying equipment, bringing donuts to your teammates are all technically hazing, although I think most of us would have little problems with that. I think the egregious nature of the claims by the accusers are WAY overblown and presented in a manner to ruin careers or line pockets. There are no winners here!

 

[NUCat320]

Guy with the handle “meaty penis” is lecturing others on “alpha” males…hilarious!

Have we ever confirmed that @peatymeanis isn’t a former NU OL? @CatManTrue, can you help?

 

[CatManTrue]

Have we ever confirmed that @peatymeanis isn’t a former NU OL? @CatManTrue, can you help?

Based on his handle, I only know that he is unblessed phallically.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I answered your question honestly with most sincerity I can muster. So…

Was responding to Meaty Penis not you Bob.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Interesting question. (No scuba - leave for three weeks in Asia soon though). I think the answer is different for 50 yr old Bob compared 18-21 yr old Bob, especially freshman Bob.

If I wanted to be part of this team, a chance to fall in line with upperclassmen, not sure I wouldn’t have submitted. If this was a right of passage and happening uniformly to the rest of the incoming class…

Pretty sure if I felt isolated, I would have become combative and or left the program. But if I felt part of the team, that I might be a regular player, I’m getting a full ride (and whatever someone is whispering in my ear like my pledge father did during rush), I can’t say I would lash out.

Maybe you can. Maybe I would. But I honestly am not sure.

Fair enough. Remember that I have actually met you and I struggle to see the big tough fella getting taken advantage of in any way similar to this.

Interesting that you said if this “uniformly happened to the rest of the incoming class”. I haven’t heard anyone claim this was some right of passage and the entire incoming class was subjected to this abuse. I also haven’t heard that the alleged victims were always part of the incoming class. Despite what 320 tries to continue to pin on me, I have never said nothing happened. My claim has always been that there was inappropriate shit going down, that needed to be dealt with. However, I also always maintained that I believe charges are embellished for either personal dislike for theHC/Program/school or the almighty dollar.

Now if this in fact shown to happen to every incoming player or even if someone can show any degree of forced participation against their will for a player, I will pipe down.

Players don’t stick around programs where they a forced into acts such as some like to describe. Parents don’t send second generations to play for that program. Current players don’t make 51 gestures with a heart about a fired HC that they thought didn’t protect them from this nonsense.

 

[NUCat320]

Players don’t stick around programs where they a forced into acts such as some like to describe. Parents don’t send second generations to play for that program. Current players don’t make 51 gestures with a heart about a fired HC that they thought didn’t protect them from this nonsense.

You’ve never said that nothing happened.
You’ve repeatedly written things like the above.

Always along the lines of “They would’ve fought back.” “These are alphas, not wusses.” “Toughest guys in the school and they’ll accept some guys junk in their face?” “You’re telling me they just took it?” “Nobody would stick around if this happened to them.”

You’ve always said, effectively, that the victims didn’t fight back enough. Or maybe they were sh*tters and deserved it. Or that staying would be simply implausible.

You’ve always found away to poke holes in the victims’ stories, but never have you poked holes in the many denials.


OH WAIT, THERE HAS NOT BEEN A SINGLE DENIAL*!!!




* (except for a player who left the program in 2010, before behavior escalated)

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

You’ve never said that nothing happened.
You’ve repeatedly written things like the above.

Always along the lines of “They would’ve fought back.” “These are alphas, not wusses.” “Toughest guys in the school and they’ll accept some guys junk in their face?” “You’re telling me they just took it?” “Nobody would stick around if this happened to them.”

You’ve always said, effectively, that the victims didn’t fight back enough. Or maybe they were sh*tters and deserved it. Or that staying would be simply implausible.

You’ve always found away to poke holes in the victims’ stories, but never have you poked holes in the many denials.


OH WAIT, THERE HAS NOT BEEN A SINGLE DENIAL*!!!




* (except for a player who left the program in 2010, before behavior escalated)

 

[NUCat320]

View embedded media

I don’t know how that’s relevant, though I guess you can choose to make fun of a kid with a debt-free Northwestern degree if you want.

It’s a shame that Pat Fitzgerald hasn’t convinced a capable quarterback to come to Northwestern since Donald Trump was just a loud game show host.

He got Paddy Fitz fired, right? He won, you lost, but also all NU fans won.

 

[wildcatpn]

I don’t know how that’s relevant, though I guess you can choose to make fun of a kid with a debt-free Northwestern degree if you want.

It’s a shame that Pat Fitzgerald hasn’t convinced a capable quarterback to come to Northwestern since Donald Trump was just a loud game show host.

He got Paddy Fitz fired, right? He won, you lost, but also all NU fans won.

Congrats, you got through a whole post without using the word D*ck. Great job.

 

[FeralFelidae]

I don’t know how that’s relevant, though I guess you can choose to make fun of a kid with a debt-free Northwestern degree if you want.

It’s a shame that Pat Fitzgerald hasn’t convinced a capable quarterback to come to Northwestern since Donald Trump was just a loud game show host.

He got Paddy Fitz fired, right? He won, you lost, but also all NU fans won.

Hey now, Bryant seems capable.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I don’t know how that’s relevant, though I guess you can choose to make fun of a kid with a debt-free Northwestern degree if you want.

It’s a shame that Pat Fitzgerald hasn’t convinced a capable quarterback to come to Northwestern since Donald Trump was just a loud game show host.

He got Paddy Fitz fired, right? He won, you lost, but also all NU fans won.

No matter what your take is on this whole situation, you lose credibility when you spout silly things like “all NU fans won”.

 

[NUCat320]

No matter what your take is on this whole situation, you lose credibility when you spout silly things like “all NU fans won”.

Okay, my apologies.

“All NU fans who didn’t enjoy four wins in two seasons led by a self-satisfied coach committed to playing football like it was 1980 won.”

I don’t know what @CoralSpringsCat’s point was. Spotlighting the noodle-armed quarterback who couldn’t see the field ahead of a walk-on but *still* brought down our fearless hero seems like something that would embarrass him, rather than bring him some kind of joy.

 

[NUCat320]

Congrats, you got through a whole post without using the word D*ck. Great job.

Thanks. It’s kinda been the summer of d*cks (the decade of d*cks?) at NU football.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Okay, my apologies.

“All NU fans who didn’t enjoy four wins in two seasons led by a self-satisfied coach committed to playing football like it was 1980 won.”

I don’t know what @CoralSpringsCat’s point was. Spotlighting the noodle-armed quarterback who couldn’t see the field ahead of a walk-on but *still* brought down our fearless hero seems like something that would embarrass him, rather than bring him some kind of joy.

I will take our fearless hero’s word over a guy where there is evidence of a premeditated plan to ruin the program, that was collaborated by a kid that showered in his underwear, and a guy that brings up stuff 15 years after the fact all the while he was singing praise of being part of said program, and a guy who was caught on social media pretending to be someone he isn’t. I’ll support the current players that elected to stay and play for a school that Administers have showed no support for them, students that are more thrilled with making a name for themselves by publishing claims that couldn’t be thoroughly researched but started a chain reaction of dumb decisions by incompetent pencil necks leading a school. Players that many of there own fans have turned on. You do what you want to do, I support that too,

Haters gonna Hate!

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Thanks. It’s kinda been the summer of d*cks (the decade of d*cks?) at NU football.

FIFY

Thanks. It’s kinda been the summer of d*cks (the decade of d*cks?) at NU.

 

[NUCat320]

FIFY

Thanks. It’s kinda been the summer of d*cks (the decade of d*cks?) at NU.

I think you didn’t fix anything 🤷🏼‍♂️
Maybe you agree it’s been a decade of d*cks? (Feel free to edit your FIFY and I’ll delete this post 😀😀)

 

[NUCat320]

I will take our fearless hero’s word over a guy where there is evidence of a premeditated plan to ruin the program, that was collaborated by a kid that showered in his underwear, and a guy that brings up stuff 15 years after the fact all the while he was singing praise of being part of said program, and a guy who was caught on social media pretending to be someone he isn’t. I’ll support the current players that elected to stay and play for a school that Administers have showed no support for them, students that are more thrilled with making a name for themselves by publishing claims that couldn’t be thoroughly researched but started a chain reaction of dumb decisions by incompetent pencil necks leading a school. Players that many of there own fans have turned on. You do what you want to do, I support that too,

Haters gonna Hate!

I just wish Pat had taken some responsibility.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I just wish Pat had taken some responsibility.

Fitzgerald said he was unaware of hazing.
He agreed to making changes to locker room supervision.
He accepted the suspension.

I don't recall him saying "it wasn't my responsibility."

So... are you just making that up?

 

[NUCat320]

Fitzgerald said he was unaware of hazing.
He agreed to making changes to locker room supervision.
He accepted the suspension.

I don't recall him saying "it wasn't my responsibility."

So... are you just making that up?

No.

He chose to say “I was disappointed when I learned…”

He never said “I did not know there was hazing but it was my responsibility to know.” (I would challenge anybody who would say a head coach is not responsible for hazing that takes place in the locker room or, previously, in training camp dorms.)

Like all the weasels, he never answered any questions because he thought the story would disappear, so we don’t know how he would have answered if asked. But, when given the opportunity in a totally open-ended press release, he insisted he didn’t know, and he went no further. He chose 🙈🙈🙈