Next week decides it for me...
- Thread starter Sheffielder
- Start date
If we don’t retain Braun and consequently have a lot of guys transfer out, we simply can’t reload through the portal like most programs unless admissions is way more flexible. So losing 15+ scholarship players would absolutely have an impact on our competitive depth. I think that cannot be discounted and is another meaningful factor in the “hire Braun” argument.
I think what Braun has shown us since the season has started is that he's a masterful DC and Fitz made an excellent pick on this front.
Honestly, I don't really know what we have out of him as a head coach. Unfortunately I think "we" will need to make a decision before we really know for sure, or what kind of head coach he would be with his own offensive staff (or a different starting QB). I tend to think he's not quite ready for a job of this magnitude; but a win over Iowa yesterday or Wisco next week would go a long way towards showing me he can pull the team through games against opponents like those - with a win.
I know the narrative has been "look at what a great job he's done with the team after all they've been though" - and yes I agree with that to an extent. But if you think wins in home games against UTEP, Howard, Minny, and UMD are enough to award someone a head coaching job in the Big Ten, then Fitz's reign really, really did a number on you and how you calibrate expectations.
One last thought: for years I've been praying to the gods that Northwestern would just pony up the cash to pay for mercenary coordinators - originally this was to enable Fitz to be the face of the program and excellent recruiter we knew he could be without letting him butcher the game day plan (that we also knew he was capable of butchering). I still love this idea and if Braun isn't quite ready to be the head guy, let's find someone who values what he's brought to the team, make him an assistant or associate head coach like others here have suggested, and compensate him in a manner that does not leave him entertaining offers from others who see the awesome job he's done on defense.
I have little doubt he likes it in Evanston, but if Clemson was watching and wanted to pay him a million more than Northwestern would...in the grand scheme of what it costs to field a winning program, spending extra $ on coordinators is cheap, and should be an easy decision.
Honestly, I don't really know what we have out of him as a head coach. Unfortunately I think "we" will need to make a decision before we really know for sure, or what kind of head coach he would be with his own offensive staff (or a different starting QB). I tend to think he's not quite ready for a job of this magnitude; but a win over Iowa yesterday or Wisco next week would go a long way towards showing me he can pull the team through games against opponents like those - with a win.
I know the narrative has been "look at what a great job he's done with the team after all they've been though" - and yes I agree with that to an extent. But if you think wins in home games against UTEP, Howard, Minny, and UMD are enough to award someone a head coaching job in the Big Ten, then Fitz's reign really, really did a number on you and how you calibrate expectations.
One last thought: for years I've been praying to the gods that Northwestern would just pony up the cash to pay for mercenary coordinators - originally this was to enable Fitz to be the face of the program and excellent recruiter we knew he could be without letting him butcher the game day plan (that we also knew he was capable of butchering). I still love this idea and if Braun isn't quite ready to be the head guy, let's find someone who values what he's brought to the team, make him an assistant or associate head coach like others here have suggested, and compensate him in a manner that does not leave him entertaining offers from others who see the awesome job he's done on defense.
I have little doubt he likes it in Evanston, but if Clemson was watching and wanted to pay him a million more than Northwestern would...in the grand scheme of what it costs to field a winning program, spending extra $ on coordinators is cheap, and should be an easy decision.
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I may absolutely be 100% dead wrong about this, but given the landscape has changed and we have a new sheriff (Schill) in town, who might be feeling a little guilty about his own role in de-stabilizing the football program...I wonder if he might loosen the reigns just a bit when it comes to portal recruits and letting the next head coach get things on track (within reason). He also doesn't want to be staring at a half-empty new stadium when it opens in a few years, and knows you don't build a winning program overnight.
You're also misremembering Clayton Thorson, the program's all-time leader in passing yards and touchdowns.
When we hired Barnett, the three finalists were obviously Barnett himself, just off a National Championship as Coordinator at Colorado, former Ohio State Head Coach Earl Bruce and former Florida Head Coach Gary Darnell. And this was when were much worse, had much worse facilities, etc.
Now I know that was about HCs and you are talking about assistants. But this is why we are very lucky to be in the Big Ten. Chris Collins has gotten good assistants, why would we not be able to find some? I bet he would keep the guys who came here with him, the DL coach, the WR coach (I am too lazy to look up their names). He might bring in one guy from NDSU but the rest of the staff, I just don't think it would be this impossible task. Last year Stanford blew its staff out.
We could talk to their former DC Lance Anderson. Right now he is in some back office position at Boise State. I bet he would love to come back to a BCS team in an on field job.
Quote - Edited for Brevity -
In 2007, Jim Harbaugh was hired by the Cardinal. Harbaugh brought along his friend, Lance Anderson. Anderson was the defensive line coach for the Torreros. The combo had led San Diego to a 20-2 record in their two seasons. Harbaugh immediately placed Lance Anderson as a position coach. More importantly, Anderson was appointed as the recruiting coordinator for Stanford. Anderson's work as a recruiter is amazing. The Stanford program has turned around in the record books without compromising the extreme importance they place on not only being the most academically stringent FBS team, but also leading the nation in graduation rate. Stanford football graduated 99 percent of its recruits. Anderson's efforts as recruiting coordinator have led to seven players named as 1st team All-Americans, and 30 players in the National Football League. In 2012, Scout named Lance Anderson "National Recruiter of the Year."
Stanford's DC Lance Anderson to BYU?
Lance Anderson, one of the nation's best recruiters and defensive minds, would be a major coup for BYU football if he were to become the next head coach.www.vanquishthefoe.com
Offensive Coordinator - I'd steal away the guy who is OC at Rice.
Quote -
In between his two stints at UCLA, he spent two seasons as the associate head coach offense and tight ends coach at USC, where he was named the Pac-12 Recruiter of the Year by Scout.com in February of 2015 after helping the Trojans haul in the nation’s top recruiting class that year according to the organization.
Marques Tuiasosopo - Football Coach - Rice University Athletics
Marques Tuiasosopo joined the Owls in February of 2021 as their offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, reuniting with Dunlevie Family Head Football Co...riceowls.com
Those are just two guys. Now remember, teams that blew out their staffs that have academics like ours are Stanford (last year), Duke (two years ago) and Vanderbilt (three years ago). I would bet some of the guys on those staffs (like Anderson) have ended up in jobs they think they are overqualified for and would reach out to Braun.
And what about Michigan State and Indiana who probably will clean out their staffs this year? While a few may be kept on by whomever the new guy is, I bet many want to keep coaching in the Big Ten and are good coaches.
To say he would not be able to find assistants is a stretch in my opinion.
Gary Darnell was not one of the final three…it was Barnett, @Jaguar 88 ’s Uncle, and Paul Schudel (the head coach at Ball State). Thank the Lord we had the sense to hire Barnett, as the other two were both train wrecks and would have set the program back even further.
I like Lewis but I like Jamarcus Shepard a tad more because of his recruiting experience at higher level programs within our league . He is an Energizer Bunny, super positive, and would be outstanding back home in the Midwest.
No. I wrote “a few brilliant players”, referring specifically to JJTBC and Thor, and then @thewildcat2011 got all “welllll, actualllllly…’ apparently arguing that Pat Fitzgerald *did not* foolishly deemphasize in the most offense-oriented era in college football. 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
Yes, Fitz decided in 2011 that offense is stupid and then proceeded to have his best offensive teams. That’s exactly how it happened, definitely.
When we hired Barnett, the three finalists were obviously Barnett himself, just off a National Championship as Coordinator at Colorado, former Ohio State Head Coach Earl Bruce and former Florida Head Coach Gary Darnell. And this was when were much worse, had much worse facilities, etc.
Now I know that was about HCs and you are talking about assistants. But this is why we are very lucky to be in the Big Ten. Chris Collins has gotten good assistants, why would we not be able to find some? I bet he would keep the guys who came here with him, the DL coach, the WR coach (I am too lazy to look up their names). He might bring in one guy from NDSU but the rest of the staff, I just don't think it would be this impossible task. Last year Stanford blew its staff out.
We could talk to their former DC Lance Anderson. Right now he is in some back office position at Boise State. I bet he would love to come back to a BCS team in an on field job.
Quote - Edited for Brevity -
In 2007, Jim Harbaugh was hired by the Cardinal. Harbaugh brought along his friend, Lance Anderson. Anderson was the defensive line coach for the Torreros. The combo had led San Diego to a 20-2 record in their two seasons. Harbaugh immediately placed Lance Anderson as a position coach. More importantly, Anderson was appointed as the recruiting coordinator for Stanford. Anderson's work as a recruiter is amazing. The Stanford program has turned around in the record books without compromising the extreme importance they place on not only being the most academically stringent FBS team, but also leading the nation in graduation rate. Stanford football graduated 99 percent of its recruits. Anderson's efforts as recruiting coordinator have led to seven players named as 1st team All-Americans, and 30 players in the National Football League. In 2012, Scout named Lance Anderson "National Recruiter of the Year."
Stanford's DC Lance Anderson to BYU?
Lance Anderson, one of the nation's best recruiters and defensive minds, would be a major coup for BYU football if he were to become the next head coach.
Offensive Coordinator - I'd steal away the guy who is OC at Rice.
Quote -
In between his two stints at UCLA, he spent two seasons as the associate head coach offense and tight ends coach at USC, where he was named the Pac-12 Recruiter of the Year by Scout.com in February of 2015 after helping the Trojans haul in the nation’s top recruiting class that year according to the organization.
Marques Tuiasosopo - Football Coach - Rice University Athletics
Marques Tuiasosopo joined the Owls in February of 2021 as their offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach, reuniting with Dunlevie Family Head Football Co...
Those are just two guys. Now remember, teams that blew out their staffs that have academics like ours are Stanford (last year), Duke (two years ago) and Vanderbilt (three years ago). I would bet some of the guys on those staffs (like Anderson) have ended up in jobs they think they are overqualified for and would reach out to Braun.
And what about Michigan State and Indiana who probably will clean out their staffs this year? While a few may be kept on by whomever the new guy is, I bet many want to keep coaching in the Big Ten and are good coaches.
To say he would not be able to find assistants is a stretch in my opinion.
Chris Collins is a highly-respected, well-connected coach from his time at Duke, the national team, etc. His network is far more extensive than Braun’s, plus he’s hiring into a much MUCH better situation.
I also would hope we can do much better than a re-tread and a Rice OC.
I'm under no false impression about the role a president plays at a university, but the provost reports to the president. He could assert his will if he so chooses, but this is literally all just message board speculation personified.
That’s why I apologized for getting the year wrong. Is your argument that Pat Fitzgerald believed it was important to have a high-powered offense?
🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
(Larkin redshirted in 2016. 2017 was his first year of activity. He was the only decent back behind JJTBC in four years.)
He was an odd guy. One of his biggest concerns was the lack of white boards in our football offices.
He wanted a run first, ball control oriented offense. That’s not saying offense is stupid or deemphasizing it. It’s just a different style of play. It’s not like he looked at 33% of the game and was like “**** it, don’t care”.
When we had good players, it worked well. When we had less good players, it worked less well! Shocking revelation!!
We had some capable backs behind JJ (Green, Long, Moten, Vault, maybe Buckley if he doesn’t shatter his leg), but JJ was obviously much better than them all and a once in a generation guy. How many elite backs are we supposed to have at one time?
Thanks for looking up that Larkin was a freshman in 2016.
Agree. That's what I was hoping, Braun HC and Shepard as OC.
Look, I get it. Fitz is dumb, lazy, fat, a complete and utter buffoon and moron that completely lucked into everything good that ever happened to him. He’s the worst and we should all hate him!!!! Everything bad is his fault. Everything good…well he had nothing to do with it.
Can we move on now?
Yes. He wanted to play offense like it was 1980 and for some reason couldn’t get a quarterback in the last ~8 years of his tenure.
He had a bottom ten offense (ish, you can look it up) in the country in 2022 and decided it was good enough. That’s backwards. It’s why NU lost yesterday.
Do you think there was a reason NU had “less good players” after Jackson and Thorson were gone? Perhaps because his goal was to score enough to win with a top 30 defense, and not just to score a lot of points.
Hey bro, you belabored the point. I just responded.
If you thought the program was in a healthy place in 2022…I would suggest you weren’t watching.
He should have fired Bajakian at the same time as JON, yes.
Not sure what you're arguing here. I'm sure Fitz tried recruiting more "brilliant players", but it didn't work out like it did with CT and JJ. Success comes from having great players on the team, obviously. I blame the Bulls for not drafting more brilliant players after the Jordan and Pippin era. Same thing with the Cowboys after Aikman and E. Smith. Both teams haven't been able to recreate the success of those championship seasons. It must mean they quit trying to find brilliant players.
Great - let a bunch of pimply faced kids control the direction of the program. Kids that many have said were part of underwhelming recruiting classes. Kids that may have been part of hazing issue. 🤦♂️
As you should. Plenty of talent missed in those drafts at those draft positions over those many years.
NU in the waning years of Fitz ceased creating the conditions that attracted high-quality offensive players.
NU’s idealization of ground-and-pound — without the infrastructure (OL coach, Strength program) to successfully execute that strategy — generally meant that highly-regarded skill players were disinterested.
Fitz wanted to be Iowa and Wisconsin despite lacking the tools that made those programs successful.
We averaged around 400 yards per game until 2018, at which point we decided that 350 was fine, and then 300ish onwards was ok.
Narrator: it wasn’t.
This is a old tired argument. We have had terrible OC’s. That has been reflected in both the product on the field and in recruiting. Skill position recruits follow a good QB and we just couldn’t recruit one. It’s not like Fitz didn’t try recruit a good QB. He offered Fields, Darnold, and starting recruiting JJ MCCarthy I think when he was 14. We weren’t going to win shoot outs with the QB’s we got.
A history of NU's offense under Fitz and beyond:
2006: Dunbar hired by Cal in Feb, Garrick McGee promoted to OC by Coach Walker
2007: McGee leads NU to best passing offense in Big Ten at 308 yards/game, a mark which has not been surpassed to this day, despite having virtually no NFL-level players (a hobbled Sutton, Eric Peterman).
2008: McGee resigns to take QB coach job under Petrino at Arkansas, Fitz hires McCall from Bowling Green.
2008-2012: McCall increases points/game every season, was top-2 in Big Ten in passing from 2009-2011 under Kafka, Persa and Colter despite having no NFL-level running backs. Averages 5.6 yards/play in 2011, which was best since 2005 pre-Fitz.
2012: Rushing game is unstoppable thanks to Venric Mark, team rushes for 225 yards/game (best in last 20 years), 3rd in Big Ten scoring 31.7 points/game (best since 2005). Wins first bowl game in school history.
~2013-14: Offense starts incorporating more power formations, yards/play drops to 4.5 in 2014 (last in Big Ten), scoring drops to 23 points/game (12th in Big Ten). Still beats Notre Dame.
2015-17: Thorson/Jackson combo improve each year from abysmal in 2015 to above average in 2017, scoring 29.2 points/game (most since 2012), but Thorson gets hurt in bowl game.
2018: Thorson's mobility clearly impacted, graduation of Jackson results in worst rushing offense in Big Ten. Passing offense still ranks 5th in conference, somehow wins enough games to win the West.
2019: Offense fully collapses with graduation of Thorson, McCall fired
2020: Bajakian hired from BC, takes offense from abysmal to merely bad behind transfer QB Ramsey. 8th in rushing yards, 10th in passing yards, total yards, and scoring, 12th in yards/play. Wins West on strength of Defense.
2021-2022: Lack of any serviceable QB leads to consecutive bottom-5 scoring offenses and bottom-10 yards/play
2023: Rushing offense currently at 98.6 yards/game, worst since 1998. Total yards at 292.1/game, worst since 1999.
This was a lot of words to say that early McCall had the benefit of a run of good to great QBs in Kafka, Persa, Colter and Siemian. He also was starting another run of improvement behind Thorson as a 4-year starter along with JJTBC through 2017, though Thorson's injury impacted his senior season.
The QBs signed after Thorson in 2013 by McCall were Lloyd Yates, Aidan Smith, Andrew Marty, Jason Whittaker, nobody (2019), and he who shall not be named. Bajakian has Sullivan, Lausch and Aidan Gray.
2006: Dunbar hired by Cal in Feb, Garrick McGee promoted to OC by Coach Walker
2007: McGee leads NU to best passing offense in Big Ten at 308 yards/game, a mark which has not been surpassed to this day, despite having virtually no NFL-level players (a hobbled Sutton, Eric Peterman).
2008: McGee resigns to take QB coach job under Petrino at Arkansas, Fitz hires McCall from Bowling Green.
2008-2012: McCall increases points/game every season, was top-2 in Big Ten in passing from 2009-2011 under Kafka, Persa and Colter despite having no NFL-level running backs. Averages 5.6 yards/play in 2011, which was best since 2005 pre-Fitz.
2012: Rushing game is unstoppable thanks to Venric Mark, team rushes for 225 yards/game (best in last 20 years), 3rd in Big Ten scoring 31.7 points/game (best since 2005). Wins first bowl game in school history.
~2013-14: Offense starts incorporating more power formations, yards/play drops to 4.5 in 2014 (last in Big Ten), scoring drops to 23 points/game (12th in Big Ten). Still beats Notre Dame.
2015-17: Thorson/Jackson combo improve each year from abysmal in 2015 to above average in 2017, scoring 29.2 points/game (most since 2012), but Thorson gets hurt in bowl game.
2018: Thorson's mobility clearly impacted, graduation of Jackson results in worst rushing offense in Big Ten. Passing offense still ranks 5th in conference, somehow wins enough games to win the West.
2019: Offense fully collapses with graduation of Thorson, McCall fired
2020: Bajakian hired from BC, takes offense from abysmal to merely bad behind transfer QB Ramsey. 8th in rushing yards, 10th in passing yards, total yards, and scoring, 12th in yards/play. Wins West on strength of Defense.
2021-2022: Lack of any serviceable QB leads to consecutive bottom-5 scoring offenses and bottom-10 yards/play
2023: Rushing offense currently at 98.6 yards/game, worst since 1998. Total yards at 292.1/game, worst since 1999.
This was a lot of words to say that early McCall had the benefit of a run of good to great QBs in Kafka, Persa, Colter and Siemian. He also was starting another run of improvement behind Thorson as a 4-year starter along with JJTBC through 2017, though Thorson's injury impacted his senior season.
The QBs signed after Thorson in 2013 by McCall were Lloyd Yates, Aidan Smith, Andrew Marty, Jason Whittaker, nobody (2019), and he who shall not be named. Bajakian has Sullivan, Lausch and Aidan Gray.
Non-NU P5 offers, per Rivals
Thorson: BC, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Mississippi, NC State, Penn State, Syracuse
Yates: None
Smith: BC
Marty: None
Whittaker: Indiana, Iowa State
Voldemort: None
Sullivan: Indiana
Lausch: None
Gray: None
Just for ‘fun’
Atkinson: Colorado, Mississippi, South Carolina, Kansas
(Atkinson was acquitted on the most serious charges, pleaded guilty to two misdemeanors, and was sentenced to counseling, probation, 50 hours community service, and no-contact with the two complainants.)
Thanks. This highlights a couple of things that I have been saying for a while. First, NU’s inability to land our A List QB prospect in any class since Thorson is a major reason behind our struggles. Why these recruiting failures happened seems linked to Fitz’s decision to switch the offensive philosophy from a spread concept to more of a ball control power offense. Lastly, MCCall was a pretty damned good coordinator when he had a decent QB and his play calling wasn’t shackled by Fitz.
