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Offense design in wake of Thorson injury

eastbaycat99

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Mar 7, 2009
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While most of the now off-season speculation resides on who might step in to take snaps in Thorson's absence, a clear significant question is how Mick McCall tweaks the schemes under the assumption an inexperienced quarterback is taking snaps at the start of the year.

The evolution of the offense in the year just ended was pretty interesting. Clearly, at the start of the year there were a lot of problems, mostly coming from the role shifting on the OL and the overall health of Justin Jackson. In retrospect, I think the decision to move Hance inside was based on the ideas that Thorson's strength was as a pocket passer and that Hance is a better run rather than pass blocker. What transpired was not pretty until Hance moved back to tackle and the passing game was moved to strongly depend on mesh routes, along with moving Thorson in the pocket. The other innovation McCall put in the last part of the year was the two tight end formation and the options off of that. By year end, the Cats had hit a good degree of competence despite the absence of deep passing threats. A lot of this success was due to Thorson's size and experience: within the range of play options, he saw the field well and was able to execute.

With Jackson gone and Thorson out possibly part but not necessarily all of the year, McCall faces the dilemma of whether to stay with what was working at the end of the year with both of those players in the backfield or design the offense to take into account their absence. To me, faced with the uncertainty of the QB role and the strengths of Larkin, I would go back to an offense centered on the read option. Since the Cats' defense should be strong, avoiding mistakes will be huge on the offensive side, and I would think a new QB could master a run based offense much more quickly and reliably than an offense that relies more on a controlled passing game like the one Thorson shines in. That would mean more of a role for the superbacks and bigger receivers, as well as the selection of the QB who has the quickest feet rather than the strongest arm. The problem with going to a read option based offense is that if Thorson returns, the offense would have to convert back to the model that worked at the end of this year.

As several posters have noted, spring practice will be really important this year. McCall has his work cut out for him, and it will be interesting to see what he does.
 
It will all come down to which OL shows up, as always. With a good OL and healthy Larkin/Moten, the NU offense should be able to do some good things even with a "game manager" QB.

I'm holding out hope for Thorson's speedy recovery, but absent that, I think a season like 2015, with maybe a slightly less putrid offense and slightly worse defense, could be in the cards.
 
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Will 2018 be a rebuilding year or just a reloading year? I'm not sure what to expect. It seems though that we have some seriously good rbs to carry the o if the ol can just block somewhat well for them. Maybe a mobile qb will be the best idea for the o/it usually is for us??
 
While most of the now off-season speculation resides on who might step in to take snaps in Thorson's absence, a clear significant question is how Mick McCall tweaks the schemes under the assumption an inexperienced quarterback is taking snaps at the start of the year.

The evolution of the offense in the year just ended was pretty interesting. Clearly, at the start of the year there were a lot of problems, mostly coming from the role shifting on the OL and the overall health of Justin Jackson. In retrospect, I think the decision to move Hance inside was based on the ideas that Thorson's strength was as a pocket passer and that Hance is a better run rather than pass blocker. What transpired was not pretty until Hance moved back to tackle and the passing game was moved to strongly depend on mesh routes, along with moving Thorson in the pocket. The other innovation McCall put in the last part of the year was the two tight end formation and the options off of that. By year end, the Cats had hit a good degree of competence despite the absence of deep passing threats. A lot of this success was due to Thorson's size and experience: within the range of play options, he saw the field well and was able to execute.

With Jackson gone and Thorson out possibly part but not necessarily all of the year, McCall faces the dilemma of whether to stay with what was working at the end of the year with both of those players in the backfield or design the offense to take into account their absence. To me, faced with the uncertainty of the QB role and the strengths of Larkin, I would go back to an offense centered on the read option. Since the Cats' defense should be strong, avoiding mistakes will be huge on the offensive side, and I would think a new QB could master a run based offense much more quickly and reliably than an offense that relies more on a controlled passing game like the one Thorson shines in. That would mean more of a role for the superbacks and bigger receivers, as well as the selection of the QB who has the quickest feet rather than the strongest arm. The problem with going to a read option based offense is that if Thorson returns, the offense would have to convert back to the model that worked at the end of this year.

As several posters have noted, spring practice will be really important this year. McCall has his work cut out for him, and it will be interesting to see what he does.

There's no need to "go back" to a read-option offense in 2018 because we had a read-option offense in 2017.
 
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There's no need to "go back" to a read-option offense in 2018 because we had a read-option offense in 2017.
I could be wrong about it (and surely you will delight in telling me so), but I think a read option requires an occasionally successful QB run . Didn't see much of that this year.

Perhaps we need remedial "reading"
 
I could be wrong about it (and surely you will delight in telling me so), but I think a read option requires an occasionally successful QB run . Didn't see much of that this year.

Perhaps we need remedial "reading"

You’re wrong about it. And that did feel good.
 
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Will 2018 be a rebuilding year or just a reloading year? I'm not sure what to expect. It seems though that we have some seriously good rbs to carry the o if the ol can just block somewhat well for them. Maybe a mobile qb will be the best idea for the o/it usually is for us??

Our schedule is just brutal next year. I would be thrilled with 8+ wins.
 
There's no need to "go back" to a read-option offense in 2018 because we had a read-option offense in 2017.

I'm with you in theory, but not in practice.

It seemed, at least in my eyes, that the read was more used more as window dressing. Ancomponent of the offense? Sure. Legimitate threat? Not so much. That's not a criticism (I get why the staff would want to protect Clayton), but if true, it's certainly a departure from the Persa/Colter years. The current read element of NU's offense looked closer to what Chip Kelly ran with the Eagles in 2014-15 (eg: read being used a decoy) as than what we've seen from McCall in the past. That being said, I don't think Mick has changed that much (some tweaking has certainly occurred - "players, formations, plays"; increasd use of sweep action, less use of bubbles, etc) since Clayton took the reins. He tailors the offense to his QB's strengths and has been calling QB runs outside of the read scheme since the Stanford TD (pulling OL, QB power) in 2015. Thorson, imho, is more dangerous in scramble situations than off the read/speed option.

All that to say, the "read" may be there in theory, but I get the sense the play is predeterimined more often than not.
 
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I'm with you in theory, but not in practice.

It seemed, at least in my eyes, that the read was more used more as window dressing. Ancomponent of the offense? Sure. Legimitate threat? Not so much. That's not a criticism (I get why the staff would want to protect Clayton), but if true, it's certainly a departure from the Persa/Colter years. The current read element of NU's offense looked closer to what Chip Kelly ran with the Eagles in 2014-15 (eg: read being used a decoy) as than what we've seen from McCall in the past. That being said, I don't think Mick has changed that much (some tweaking has certainly occurred - "players, formations, plays"; increasd use of sweep action, less use of bubbles, etc) since Clayton took the reins. He tailors the offense to his QB's strengths and has been calling QB runs outside of the read scheme since the Stanford TD (pulling OL, QB power) in 2015. Thorson, imho, is more dangerous in scramble situations than off the read/speed option.

All that to say, the "read" may be there in theory, but I get the sense the play is predeterimined more often than not.

Or they told Thorson “hey, that Jackson character is pretty good. Don’t keep it unless you’re stone cold 100% sure if your read.”
 
Or they told Thorson “hey, that Jackson character is pretty good. Don’t keep it unless you’re stone cold 100% sure if your read.”

I can defintely see that and it would support the idea that the read wasn't really in play most of the time.
 
None of the QB’s on the roster are runner first, passer second. The offensive scheme will be similar.
That’s too bad. The rest of the personnel would complement a run option oriented QB: Larkin is quicker than Jackson, assuming Vault and Brown are back along with Lees and Roberts there is some speed at slot and wideout, there is a good contingent of Superbacks and the line seems to do well Zone blocking for this sort of play. They definitely could stretch the defense at the LOS even if they couldn't stretch them vertically.
 
That’s too bad. The rest of the personnel would complement a run option oriented QB: Larkin is quicker than Jackson, assuming Vault and Brown are back along with Lees and Roberts there is some speed at slot and wideout, there is a good contingent of Superbacks and the line seems to do well Zone blocking for this sort of play. They definitely could stretch the defense at the LOS even if they couldn't stretch them vertically.
I believe opposing D’s will focus on stopping Larkin next year and dare others to beat them.
 
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