OT: conference expansion continues- Mountain West losing 4 teams to PAC12

[WestCoastWildcat]

Pac-12 expansion on the way as conference adds four teams for 2026

The Pac-12 is adding Boise State, Colorado State, Fresno State and San Diego State, starting in 2026, to join Oregon State and Washington State in a rebuilt.

www.nbclosangeles.com

Four Mountain West teams including San Diego State announce they will be leaving the MWC to join the previously depleted PAC12 which has only Oregon State and Washington State remaining as members. Evidently the PAC12 coffers are pretty substantial to help attract new members and to assist in paying off the MWC for the move. The PAC12 will be looking for an additional 2 members to reach the magic number of 8 to achieve FBS status. Here is a discussion about others who might be targets to join in the future. It’s a brave new world.

Pac-12 Conference: Nine schools to watch for further expansion plans

With the Pac-12 now at six schools, the conference needs to add at least two more for FBS status. Who are the top contenders?

www.on3.com

 

[FeralFelidae]

I'm sure lots of teams would be willing to join, but is there any chance the PAC12 can regain P5 status?

 

[EagerFan]

2023 #s 27, 54, 57, 68, 103, 111 aren't going to wow the world. Seems like a reach to get back to P5, but I like the relatively close locations for the schools. If they can woo two more schools within the same range, it will certainly be relatively cheap for travel

 

[WestCoastWildcat]

2023 #s 27, 54, 57, 68, 103, 111 aren't going to wow the world. Seems like a reach to get back to P5, but I like the relatively close locations for the schools. If they can woo two more schools within the same range, it will certainly be relatively cheap for travel

Yes I like the geographic proximity of the schools for the most part, Colorado State seems to be an outlier in that respect. I know travel distance and lack of accommodations for fans (for Wyoming games for instance) were ongoing issues for teams like San Diego State. I think the hope is to draw in teams like Cal and Stanford but that seems unlikely. My “other” school UC San Diego’s program recently elevated to DI and they are already having an impact in the Big West Conference which they have transitioned. They participate in all sports except for football though there is pressure to start a football program. Just such a huge start-up cost to begin from scratch. UC San Diego has the resources to begin one if the long-term benefits for students and alumni overcome the reluctance of the current administration to commit the funds to start up.

 

[Eurocat]

I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years Cal and Stanford rejoin. They now have to fly across the country for just about every away game (unless they are playing each other). That has to be a killer on the players (and remember, this is in ALL sports).

Logical additional choices would be UNLV in a town where sports are exploding and Air Force which has a national following. UTSA is in a fown with a NBA team so obviously they can support school sports as well.

 

[hdhntr1]

I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years Cal and Stanford rejoin. They now have to fly across the country for just about every away game (unless they are playing each other). That has to be a killer on the players (and remember, this is in ALL sports).

Logical additional choices would be UNLV in a town where sports are exploding and Air Force which has a national following. UTSA is in a fown with a NBA team so obviously they can support school sports as well.

And not just for FB and BB

 

[HailToPurple]

This is not OT at all.

We, NU, being part of the BIG are responsible for the drastic national realignment of major college sports. The traditional regional model has been pretty much destroyed and now schools are scrambling to get in conferences wherever they can. It's lousy for the players and the fans alike.

But when big money is involved everyone, even highly respectable universities like ours, gets greedy.

 

[phatcat]

Colorado State seems to be an outlier in that respect

Might beat CU though

 

[hoosboot]

Yes I like the geographic proximity of the schools for the most part, Colorado State seems to be an outlier in that respect. I know travel distance and lack of accommodations for fans (for Wyoming games for instance) were ongoing issues for teams like San Diego State. I think the hope is to draw in teams like Cal and Stanford but that seems unlikely. My “other” school UC San Diego’s program recently elevated to DI and they are already having an impact in the Big West Conference which they have transitioned. They participate in all sports except for football though there is pressure to start a football program. Just such a huge start-up cost to begin from scratch. UC San Diego has the resources to begin one if the long-term benefits for students and alumni overcome the reluctance of the current administration to commit the funds to start up.

I could see Grand Canyon being a good fit, moreso than a school like UTSA. UC San Diego could be a juggernaut in a few years.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

I could see Grand Canyon being a good fit, moreso than a school like UTSA. UC San Diego could be a juggernaut in a few years.

How is GCU’s football program?

 

[singe]

How is GCU’s football program?

They beat Duke this year.
https://gculopes.com/sports/mens-soccer/stats/2024/duke/boxscore/19790

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

This is not OT at all.

We, NU, being part of the BIG are responsible for the drastic national realignment of major college sports. The traditional regional model has been pretty much destroyed and now schools are scrambling to get in conferences wherever they can. It's lousy for the players and the fans alike.

But when big money is involved everyone, even highly respectable universities like ours, gets greedy.

How is it lousy for the players? Without the mega conferences, there isn’t as much tv money which is now making its way to the players in the form of NIL. I have yet to here of any players in revenue sports complain, only nostalgic fans.

 

[Just Gary]

I would like to see Cal and Stanford go back to the PAC-8. It makes sense having a real regional league which would reduce travel cost. At the same time, it would put the league in a between status between the P4 and the G5. Adding UNLV and Air Force would make the league interesting.

 

[HailToPurple]

How is it lousy for the players? Without the mega conferences, there isn’t as much tv money which is now making its way to the players in the form of NIL. I have yet to here of any players in revenue sports complain, only nostalgic fans.

That's exactly the problem. It's now all about money, money, and more money.

The amateur aspect of college sports, which for over 100 years existed and the gave a sense of value to both the players and the fans, no longer applies. That combined with the obscene NIL money grab has totally redefined college athletics.

Of course the players are not complaining. Certainly not some of them when they can become millionaires as a freshman. I do wonder, however, whether the players not receiving large NIL hand outs are somewhat jealous of those who do get them.

And it used to be that most players selected a school and played out all four years there. A sense of loyalty and dedication existed that sadly is no longer found in many cases.

But what you have to decide is whether a society allowing this to happen, or in some cases even encouraging and supporting it as some here do, is to the benefit or detriment of that society.

Some here, and I am certainly one of them, believe it is to the serious detriment of college athletics and to society in general.

 

[NUCat320]

How is it lousy for the players? Without the mega conferences, there isn’t as much tv money which is now making its way to the players in the form of NIL. I have yet to here of any players in revenue sports complain, only nostalgic fans.

Cameron Brink, who was notably in a New Balance commercial during the men’s NCAA tournament and also had several active NIL deals, specifically mentioned conference realignment when she left Stanford for the WNBA this spring.

Her WNBA salary is $80k, just a fraction of her overall earnings. She’s also from a wealthy family.

https://athlonsports.com/college/stanford-cardinal/stanford-cameron-brink-acc-move-reason-wnba-draft-declare

Stanford and Cal certainly got the shortest ends of the stick in realignment. Weekly cross-country travel is a grind.

 

[EagerFan]

As another way to look at it, I wonder if chasing the all might dollar might be destroying a historical tribalism that was bad for the wider society.

 

[NUCat320]

This a dense and circuitous article, but it does openly ponder the next phase of realignment, which is conference contraction. I choose not to think about it.

“More to the point, though, the real fight has yet to be engaged, which is how the SEC and Big 10, the only conferences with enduring media money, figure out how to get rid of some of their lagging legacy members so that they can cut fewer slices of this momentarily growing pie. That's how cannibalism works—you eat until the only ones left on the menu are your dining partners. You can talk about alignment of philosophy and traditional athletic cultures and historic rivalries until that vein in your forehead stands out like the lacing on a football, but none of that is the basis of college sports now. The day will come, much sooner than anyone thinks, when the Ohio State president asks the Michigan president, "Are you sure we need Purdue or Northwestern?" or when Georgia and Alabama begin wondering aloud about the necessity of Mississippi State or Vanderbilt. Partnerships are made to be destroyed, and every handshake should be followed by an immediate inventory of fingers.”

The Pac-12's Raid On The Mountain West Is Only The Beginning | Defector

The continuing assault by university administrators upon elementary school teaching standards advanced another step this week with the latest burst of math, furniture, and geography rearrangement in college sports. The Pacific 12 Conference, which began as the Pac 8 then went to a membership of...

defector.com

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

That's exactly the problem. It's now all about money, money, and more money.

The amateur aspect of college sports, which for over 100 years existed and the gave a sense of value to both the players and the fans, no longer applies. That combined with the obscene NIL money grab has totally redefined college athletics.

Of course the players are not complaining. Certainly not some of them when they can become millionaires as a freshman. I do wonder, however, whether the players not receiving large NIL hand outs are somewhat jealous of those who do get them.

And it used to be that most players selected a school and played out all four years there. A sense of loyalty and dedication existed that sadly is no longer found in many cases.

But what you have to decide is whether a society allowing this to happen, or in some cases even encouraging and supporting it as some here do, is to the benefit or detriment of that society.

Some here, and I am certainly one of them, believe it is to the serious detriment of college athletics and to society in general.

Ok, your original statement said it was lousy for the players. What WAS lousy for the players was to receive zero compensation for their talents and being basically locked into the schools they choose to attend even if the situation was toxic for them personally! You put up with a lot more when the rules force you to sit out a year when transferring.

I certainly don’t see the current situation a detriment to society. That’s reserved for more important things like human and civil rights.

Now, I do agree that the pendulum has swung too far too fast. Student athletes went from almost no rights to holding all the cards. I am hopeful they can put some structure or guardrails around NIL and the portal to keep a competitive balance. However, that’s not the players issue. It’s the people that are so called in charge. There failure to address this before the courts acted opened Pandora’s box.

 

[HailToPurple]

Ok, your original statement said it was lousy for the players. What WAS lousy for the players was to receive zero compensation for their talents and being basically locked into the schools they choose to attend even if the situation was toxic for them personally! You put up with a lot more when the rules force you to sit out a year when transferring.

I certainly don’t see the current situation a detriment to society. That’s reserved for more important things like human and civil rights.

Now, I do agree that the pendulum has swung too far too fast. Student athletes went from almost no rights to holding all the cards. I am hopeful they can put some structure or guardrails around NIL and the portal to keep a competitive balance. However, that’s not the players issue. It’s the people that are so called in charge. There failure to address this before the courts acted opened Pandora’s box.

The players were not receiving zero compensation for their talents as you claim. They were receiving scholarships and personal expense coverage worth in many cases $100,000 per year. $400,000 over four years. Hardly zero compensation.

And that system served everyone quite well for over 100 years. Right up to the time when TV commercial advertising took over control of the entire college athletics community. Or should I say industry.

And now we make 18-year-olds into multimillions before they even finish high school. If you can't see anything wrong with a society that does that I probably can't help you.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

The players were not receiving zero compensation for their talents as you claim. They were receiving scholarships and personal expense coverage worth in many cases $100,000 per year. $400,000 over four years. Hardly zero compensation.

And that system served everyone quite well for over 100 years. Right up to the time when TV commercial advertising took over control of the entire college athletics community. Or should I say industry.

And now we make 18-year-olds into multimillions before they even finish high school. If you can't see anything wrong with a society that does that I probably can't help you.

No it didn’t serve everyone well. It served your utopian idea of college athletics well. Zero compensation and I meant it. You are obviously are a NU guy. I can tell you stories about guys playing P5 football that didn’t know the name of their Governor or the Vice President of the USA. One such guy ended up in the NFL so I guess he was a lucky one. Most just faded away without a degree. They were used. Plain and simple. In the mean time, the Coaches and administrators had six figure or better contracts, million dollar houses, luxury cars and boats.

Hate the game not the player. Even if foolish, if people are willing to pay an 18 year a million dollars, guess what, that’s the market. It’s free enterprise. Capitalism, a thing that some people in this country seem to be suggesting we get away from. The NCAA, and University coffers were modern day Robber Barons. Everyone gets wealthy except the people doing the actual work.

Now excuse me as I exit your lawn.

 

[EagerFan]

This a dense and circuitous article, but it does openly ponder the next phase of realignment, which is conference contraction. I choose not to think about it.

“More to the point, though, the real fight has yet to be engaged, which is how the SEC and Big 10, the only conferences with enduring media money, figure out how to get rid of some of their lagging legacy members so that they can cut fewer slices of this momentarily growing pie. That's how cannibalism works—you eat until the only ones left on the menu are your dining partners. You can talk about alignment of philosophy and traditional athletic cultures and historic rivalries until that vein in your forehead stands out like the lacing on a football, but none of that is the basis of college sports now. The day will come, much sooner than anyone thinks, when the Ohio State president asks the Michigan president, "Are you sure we need Purdue or Northwestern?" or when Georgia and Alabama begin wondering aloud about the necessity of Mississippi State or Vanderbilt. Partnerships are made to be destroyed, and every handshake should be followed by an immediate inventory of fingers.”

The Pac-12's Raid On The Mountain West Is Only The Beginning | Defector

The continuing assault by university administrators upon elementary school teaching standards advanced another step this week with the latest burst of math, furniture, and geography rearrangement in college sports. The Pacific 12 Conference, which began as the Pac 8 then went to a membership of...

defector.com

Interesting read.

I think he's missing a bit on the absolute value of having enough perennial losers in a conference to guarantee some teams the perfect seasons they require for the biggest money maker matchups.

It seems more likely the B1G and SEC actually add in a few more bottom dwellers already in their respective spheres just to pad the already-shady wins columns of the biggest drawing teams, than that they cut out the less successful teams already in conference and have to play more games against better competition.

 

[techtim72]

The makeup of the founding members won't change on $100 mil here or there from football unless a member completely abandons all hope. Northwestern's $1 bil investment in facilities doesn't even remotely suggest that. There are lots of other sports and academic relationships that are also in play.

 

[HailToPurple]

No it didn’t serve everyone well. It served your utopian idea of college athletics well. Zero compensation and I meant it. You are obviously are a NU guy. I can tell you stories about guys playing P5 football that didn’t know the name of their Governor or the Vice President of the USA. One such guy ended up in the NFL so I guess he was a lucky one. Most just faded away without a degree. They were used. Plain and simple. In the mean time, the Coaches and administrators had six figure or better contracts, million dollar houses, luxury cars and boats.

Hate the game not the player. Even if foolish, if people are willing to pay an 18 year a million dollars, guess what, that’s the market. It’s free enterprise. Capitalism, a thing that some people in this country seem to be suggesting we get away from. The NCAA, and University coffers were modern day Robber Barons. Everyone gets wealthy except the people doing the actual work.

Now excuse me as I exit your lawn.

A four-year free ride to receive a college degree including a sizable living expense allowance is NOT zero compensation. It is, in fact, quite generous and well matched to a varsity athlete's contribution to the school.

Millions of dollars paid to 18-year-olds for use of their name is on the other hand an absurdity to any reasonable society.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

A four-year free ride to receive a college degree including a sizable living expense allowance is NOT zero compensation. It is, in fact, quite generous and well matched to a varsity athlete's contribution to the school.

Millions of dollars paid to 18-year-olds for use of their name is on the other hand an absurdity to any reasonable society.

It’s a great deal if you are a player for LaCrosse, Field Hockey, a gymnast, swimmer or wrestler. It’s not a great deal if you are Caleb Williams, Marvin Harrison Jr or even Boo Buie. The facts are football and men’s basketball are called revenue sports for a reason. They make a sizable amount of cash for the university!

Do you get this worked up for non-athletes earning income while on Scholarship? No one ever belly aches over musicians, actors or artist selling there work. How about the free ride student for academics, should they not be able to earn what they can doing whatever they are good at? These revenue athletes students have elite in demand skills. Any student would make as much as they could, why bemoan the student athletes that do?

If you want to get upset with someone, get upset with the donors ( many of us on the board) that make these salaries possible. Be upset with the consumers who continue to fork out hundreds of dollars a month on tickets or cable table for the pleasure of watching them perform. Be upset with your alma mater that accepts millions in TV revenues and builds new facilities, all while paying the Coaches as the highest paid employees of the school.

The horse has left the barn. A reasonable society ceased to exist centuries ago. You have a simple solution, don’t support any of the revenue streams that are used to provide this money. If you do, you come off as old man screaming at the clouds. This is coming from an old man!

 

[HailToPurple]

It’s a great deal if you are a player for LaCrosse, Field Hockey, a gymnast, swimmer or wrestler. It’s not a great deal if you are Caleb Williams, Marvin Harrison Jr or even Boo Buie. The facts are football and men’s basketball are called revenue sports for a reason. They make a sizable amount of cash for the university!

Do you get this worked up for non-athletes earning income while on Scholarship? No one ever belly aches over musicians, actors or artist selling there work. How about the free ride student for academics, should they not be able to earn what they can doing whatever they are good at? These revenue athletes students have elite in demand skills. Any student would make as much as they could, why bemoan the student athletes that do?

If you want to get upset with someone, get upset with the donors ( many of us on the board) that make these salaries possible. Be upset with the consumers who continue to fork out hundreds of dollars a month on tickets or cable table for the pleasure of watching them perform. Be upset with your alma mater that accepts millions in TV revenues and builds new facilities, all while paying the Coaches as the highest paid employees of the school.

The horse has left the barn. A reasonable society ceased to exist centuries ago. You have a simple solution, don’t support any of the revenue streams that are used to provide this money. If you do, you come off as old man screaming at the clouds. This is coming from an old man!

The fact that some students, artists or musicians for example, can sell their work and earn some income while still students is irrelevant to this discussion. They will have created something of value to someone else and their relationship to the university has nothing to do with the matter.

The case of student athletes is entirely different. Their fame, notoriety, value, etc., is entirely based on the fact the university has given them a stage and setting to display their talents. And to do so in a team setting. Without the university, without the other players, all of their talents would go completely unnoticed.

The point is that they just don’t deserve millions of dollars for doing what their scholarship required of them to begin with, regardless of how exceptional their performance may be.

For many years highly talented college athletes in revenue sports performed at their peak levels without any special or excessive monetary compensation. They were on the same basic scholarship program as everyone else on the team. The fact there is now an obscene amount of money available should still not change that fundamental role.

The big problem now is NIL. And it’s getting worse. Get rid of NIL and a lot of the problem goes away.

 

[WestCoastWildcat]

I

I'm sure lots of teams would be willing to join, but is there any chance the PAC12 can regain P5 status?

This has been a topic on local sports segments. The San Diego State AD commented this will be a goal of the reconstituted PAC12 to regain P5 status. Stanford and Cal returning to the conference would certainly help with that and would make geographic sense for those schools to reduce the need to travel cross-country esp for their non-revenue generating teams.

The local sports said that the PAC-12 will help mitigate the costs for the 4 teams leaving the MWC to join the PAC-12. In the case of San Diego State the cost is approximately $18M to leave the MWC. Their annual revenue is estimated to at least double from current ~$5M as a MWC member to at least $10M as as a new member of the reconstituted PAC-12. A lot will depend on negotiation of tv contracts and what other schools the PAC-12 might be able to draw in. This move makes a lot of sense for the schools involved. It would be interesting to know more if consolidation with the MWC was considered as an option compared to picking off the four schools. I think this move exemplifies that the conference realignment is fluid and on-going. San Diego State, like Northwestern has heavily invested in athletics and sports facilities. Athletics and the move to the PAC-12 has the full unbridled support of the current SDSU administration. The SDSU president made comments about the importance of athletics to the university, discussing the major impact SDSU’s success in the Big Dance and recent appearance in the NCAA men’s basketball finals has had on donations and student applications. The new $400M stadium in Mission Valley which was funded by a bond issue approved by public vote also represents the community’s commitment to both college and professional athletics based in San Diego. I hope to see the Wildcats return to Mission Valley again some day! Go Cats!

 

[phatcat]

The players were not receiving zero compensation for their talents as you claim. They were receiving scholarships and personal expense coverage worth in many cases $100,000 per year. $400,000 over four years.

Faux scholarships are a sham, especially at NU. Nobody pays full boat. NU has a generous need-based aid policy. Generalizing, a typical kid would pay about 30k a year after aid, same as a state school. They could make that much in any full time job and not put their health/life on the line. Want to quibble about, say, 10k more a year? I'd still say a scholarship athlete "works" at a job that is worth 40k a year. My point is, they are getting nothing exceptional for "free"

 

[HailToPurple]

It doesn't matter what the rest of the students get. And it's simply not true that nobody pays full boat. About 60% of the students get some financial help and the amount depends on their individual needs. But about 40% are paying full tuition or close to it.

The point is that scholarship athletes are getting an education at a premier university at no cost to them. For them to then earn well over a million dollars in addition for nothing more than lending their NIL for strictly commercial purposes shows just how far our society has fallen with respect to values and principles.

 

[hoosboot]

How is GCU’s football program?

They don't have one, but given their for-profit status and strong athletic success in the sports they have jumped into, a move into the PAC could make sense if there's a media deal attached. That said, UNLV is the no-brainer and the 2nd option seems like the tougher choice. If conference alignment is still about media markets, Phoenix is big one to target in some way.

 

[CatManTrue]

I wouldn't be surprised if in a few years Cal and Stanford rejoin. They now have to fly across the country for just about every away game (unless they are playing each other). That has to be a killer on the players (and remember, this is in ALL sports).

Logical additional choices would be UNLV in a town where sports are exploding and Air Force which has a national following. UTSA is in a fown with a NBA team so obviously they can support school sports as well.

Agreed. Two California schools in the ACC makes no sense.

Cal & Stanford belong in the PAC

 

[techtim72]

UNLV beat Kansas last night. Looked good. Dave Odom is coach. Legit.