OT-Recovering from Covid-19

[Gladeskat]

Is there data for that?

It can be inferred from the strong drop in cases of earlier strains through winter and early spring after vaccination efforts started. One might expect that to be true for delta (unvaccinated transmit more than vaccinated). If a vaccine provides protection it is reducing transmission.

https://www.healthline.com/health-n...ted-people#The-vaccines-and-the-Delta-variant

Delta is a very different critter than the strains for which we've been vaccinated. It's roughly twice as contagious and there's good evidence that it may produce more serious infections in terms of hospitalization rates. See new Lancet study of the outcome of 40K-50K cases where the strain was determined.

 

[Turk]

It is good to know Gov. DeSantis is getting his COVID advice from a psychiatrist - kind of like getting medical advice from Turk.

Speaking of dropping an article - from yesterday's Miami Herald:

"A California psychiatrist who has advised Gov. Ron DeSantis on the coronavirus pandemic recently promoted a drug for COVID-19 patients that federal disease experts have strongly warned against after a spike in calls to poison control centers....The maker of the drug, Merck, has also said there is 'no scientific basis' to claim that ivermectin is effective against COVID-19."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article253802048.html

There does seem to be conflicting data but isnt that good for science?
At any rate, im brainwashed due to my own health care providers who did a great job. I understand you and civilians who may not have the experience of going thru a covid hospital stay may have to rely on the Miami Herald, but my pulmonologist is an expert and they treat with ivemectim.
Rajter, Jean-Jacques. He consulted me on the treatments on the first day. He saw therapeutic value and ill take his expert experience over you and the miami herald.

 

[Turk]

Brain damage is a rare but serious side effect of COVID and I'd suggest you get some scans done ASAP.

Omg. Carry on!

 

[BFDCat]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that mean it spreads just as easily with those that are vaxxed as with those that are unvaxxed?

Jesus, can you people not Google and do some research. Breakthrough infections do indeed spread as much as infections in the unvaxxed, BUT, and this is big, your chances of catching it if you are vaxxed is MUCH smaller. So, if you are vaxxed you have a much smaller chance of catching it and spreading it. How the **** do people not understand this. It pisses me off. Never mind that if you do get a Breakthrough you likely won't be taking an ICU bed from someone else who wasn't a dumb**** anti vaxxer.

 

[BFDCat]

Let's do some math. I have covid and I walk into a room with 50 vaccinated people and 50 unvaccinated people. 2 of the vaccinated people catch it, 25 of the unvaccinated people catch it. Those people then go out into the world. Who is responsible for the majority of covid spread? Sure as hell not the vaccinated people.

 

[mission_cat]

Jesus, can you people not Google and do some research. Breakthrough infections do indeed spread as much as infections in the unvaxxed, BUT, and this is big, your chances of catching it if you are vaxxed is MUCH smaller. So, if you are vaxxed you have a much smaller chance of catching it and spreading it. How the **** do people not understand this. It pisses me off. Never mind that if you do get a Breakthrough you likely won't be taking an ICU bed from someone else who wasn't a dumb**** anti vaxxer.

If you want to understand them, start from the assumption that you owe nothing to your fellow man and work backwards. The entire conversation is in bad faith. Notice how it shifts from "why should I need to get vaccinated? it's my choice!" to the xenophobic and completely false claim that it's the illegal immigrants' fault (the delta waves started in SW Missouri and severity is directly correlated with unvaccinated rate). This entire exercise is about denying at all costs their personal responsibility and the negative impact their choices have on others.

 

[Gladeskat]

I want to add here that in Florida, the ten worst counties with the highest covid rates also have vax rates <35% and most under 30%. Those counties are rural counties that are ultra-red. Columbia County has had THE WORST covid rates in FL and was in the top 5 worst counties in the US for weeks - 30% vax rate. Surrounding rural, 'crimson' counties are not much better, and next-door Suwannee and Taylor Counties are now the COVID champs in FL. Hardly anyone masks down here, though I've seen a few more masks lately.

 

[Turk]

Jesus, can you people not Google and do some research. Breakthrough infections do indeed spread as much as infections in the unvaxxed, BUT, and this is big, your chances of catching it if you are vaxxed is MUCH smaller. So, if you are vaxxed you have a much smaller chance of catching it and spreading it. How the **** do people not understand this. It pisses me off. Never mind that if you do get a Breakthrough you likely won't be taking an ICU bed from someone else who wasn't a dumb**** anti vaxxer.

The problem is that the new data which still has to be peer reviewed is the exact opposite of previous data that you just espoused.
I mean, this stuff changes, like it or not. You are now 8 x more chance to get covid symptoms than me. That is significant. You can doubt it and it should be doubted until peer review but my point is that you cant, or shouldnt, have such a dogmatic stance.
Look, my own immunity will eventually fade. Ill look towards vaccines. But something is going wrong along the way with vaccines. Im sure the vaccines will evolve and we will stay on top of this. Imo we have mitigated this virus above expectations and Im guessing we are all fairly confident in sustaining.
But talk of dumb#$$ is foolish unintelligible

 

[Gladeskat]

If you want to understand them, start from the assumption that you owe nothing to your fellow man and work backwards. The entire conversation is in bad faith. Notice how it shifts from "why should I need to get vaccinated? it's my choice!" to the xenophobic and completely false claim that it's the illegal immigrants' fault (the delta waves started in SW Missouri and severity is directly correlated with unvaccinated rate). This entire exercise is about denying at all costs their personal responsibility and the negative impact their choices have on others.

Great post and that's the discussion pattern I see over and over again. This so-called "freedom" is driven largely by selfishness that I worry will be applied to other difficult problems that require the public's cooperation.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

 

[Turk]

Let's do some math. I have covid and I walk into a room with 50 vaccinated people and 50 unvaccinated people. 2 of the vaccinated people catch it, 25 of the unvaccinated people catch it. Those people then go out into the world. Who is responsible for the majority of covid spread? Sure as hell not the vaccinated people.

The group you left out are the unvaxxed who already had it. In florida, the unvaxxed who never had it is in a very small group. Delta is grabbing all of us unvaxxed.
Now, we are the safest people to be around. So safe that im going to start going to concerts again and parties. You wont get any covid from unvaxxed who went thru it.

 

[Turk]

If you want to understand them, start from the assumption that you owe nothing to your fellow man and work backwards. The entire conversation is in bad faith. Notice how it shifts from "why should I need to get vaccinated? it's my choice!" to the xenophobic and completely false claim that it's the illegal immigrants' fault (the delta waves started in SW Missouri and severity is directly correlated with unvaccinated rate). This entire exercise is about denying at all costs their personal responsibility and the negative impact their choices have on others.

Please explain for me why I should get vaccinated anytime soon when the data says you are 7x more likely than me to get covid, and 8x more likely than me to get sick from it?
Yea, im retarded, a bad person, brain dead and all the other unintelligle attacks. But try to stick with the science and answer my question.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Vaxxed individuals can still pass the virus.

Yes, but at much lower rates. Just like a mask isn't an inpenetrable barrier, but it's definitely far better than not wearing one.

Just like condoms aren't 100% either.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that mean it spreads just as easily with those that are vaxxed as with those that are unvaxxed?

Seems to be the case with the Delta variant, though the science is far from settled and individual outcomes are better for vaccinated people.

Bottom line: get the damn shot, put on the damn mask, let’s actually get out of this thing.

 

[Turk]

Great post and that's the discussion pattern I see over and over again. This so-called "freedom" is driven largely by selfishness that I worry will be applied to other difficult problems that require the public's cooperation.

"Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."

The politics is mixed. Yes the dems arent addressing covid border like they should. But that is just a big jerkoff reason that virginia stirs up.
Collateral damage. It pollutes virginiacat as he blames the health crisis on politics.
And it pollutes others on the other side.
The reality of covid is that imo it is contained enuf that we seem to be addressing it pretty good. Ill credit President Biden or faucci on that.
The therapeutic drugs that faucci expedited are phenomenal. Faucci just isnt all about vaccines, he pushed for the monoclonal infusion and im sure the remdesivir was super for me.
Its these knuckleheads who think hospitals are out to kill you or remdesivir is evil that limits progress.
The ignorance on both sides, for those who are full blown political now, has really been hurtful to covid treatment.
People are dying due to fear. I had people tell me not to go to the hospital because they were going to kill me. They were serious. People watch too many youtube videos.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Please explain for me why I should get vaccinated anytime soon when the data says you are 7x more likely than me to get covid, and 8x more likely than me to get sick from it?
Yea, im retarded, a bad person, brain dead and all the other unintelligle attacks. But try to stick with the science and answer my question.

Because even the article you quoted says it’s an added layer of protection.

 

[Turk]

Don't deflect and fall to a strawman.

No one here is defending the stupidity of letting undocumented immigrants in who could very well be infected.

And your "information" that your natural immunity is good enough is rooted in science that is about as accurate as the science you are relying on with respect to the shape of the Earth and the relationship it has with the moon.

COVID-19 immunity: Infection compared with vaccination | British Society for Immunology

The British Society for Immunology has partnered with the UK Coronavirus Immunology Consortium (UK-CIC) to create an infographic which explains the similarities and differences in immunity against COVID-19 gained through infection with SARS-CoV-2 compared with vaccination. Scroll down this page...

www.immunology.org

And Biden is clearly incompetent as the mess in Afghanistan has reemphasized, along with the inflation, and the gas prices, and the mess on our borders. Stop deflecting and changing the subject.

None of it means you shouldn't vaccinate. Go get your shots.

You have refused to consider the latest data which I posted. You have done well with personal attacks but your only intelligent discourse on the new data was "i doubt it".
Its ok to doubt it until peer reviewed but my sense is that you doubted it in a way that was unintelligible and dogmatic if not "mind made up".
Its ok to cite much older data as you did and it does present conflicting data. But cmon man, will you stop being dopey and allow the new data to be recognized, digested. Disputed before you reduceyourself to flat earth mentality?
Sheesh!

 

[EvanstonCat]

You have refused to consider the latest data which I posted. You have done well with personal attacks but your only intelligent discourse on the new data was "i doubt it".
Its ok to doubt it until peer reviewed but my sense is that you doubted it in a way that was unintelligible and dogmatic if not "mind made up".
Its ok to cite much older data as you did and it does present conflicting data. But cmon man, well you stop being dopey and allow the new data to be recognized, digested. Disputed before you reduceyourself to flat earth mentality?
Sheesh!

I didn't see the link. Post it and I'll have a look, and consider the source.

 

[Turk]

Because even the article you quoted says it’s an added layer of protection.

Not at first. This may surprise you but my doctor says they wont even give me a vaccine for months. Im not sure why but thats true. My guess is that he meant 4 or 5 months from now.
But yea, it certainly wont hurt if i get a vaccine next year. It just makes good sense to add. I agree. Been in the hospital once and im not getting any younger.

 

[Frabjous]

Efforts are underway, this Fall, to combine the flu vaccine with the COVID vaccine: a twofer, if you will. Whether this will satisfy the zinc-and-horse-pill folks is a question that is above my pay grade. Your move, Turk.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Yes, but at much lower rates. Just like a mask isn't an inpenetrable barrier, but it's definitely far better than not wearing one.

Just like condoms aren't 100% either.

So by that theory, we should all be wearing padded helmets when we walk around because our chance of fatal brain injury is heavily reduced if we fall down.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

It pisses me off. Never mind that if you do get a Breakthrough you likely won't be taking an ICU bed from someone else who wasn't a dumb**** anti vaxxer.

Sounds like someone is triggered. Lol

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

If you want to understand them, start from the assumption that you owe nothing to your fellow man and work backwards. The entire conversation is in bad faith. Notice how it shifts from "why should I need to get vaccinated? it's my choice!" to the xenophobic and completely false claim that it's the illegal immigrants' fault (the delta waves started in SW Missouri and severity is directly correlated with unvaccinated rate). This entire exercise is about denying at all costs their personal responsibility and the negative impact their choices have on others.

I’ll say it again. An extremely high percentage of unvaxxed people are the poor and homeless. What is the plan to get them vaxxed? Most of the excrement on the streets is coming from them. That doesn’t seem sanitary.

There’s nothing in bad faith about the discussion. You tout everyone should be vaxxed, and that it shouldn’t be their own option. But at the same time, you laud unvaxxed, undocumented migrants. Talk about bad faith! You can’t even decide what you actually want. Figure out a plan that makes sense and follow through with it before you start telling people what they can and can’t do! “Show me your papers! Well…not everyone. Just certain people.” How very fascist…

 

[mission_cat]

Please explain for me why I should get vaccinated anytime soon when the data says you are 7x more likely than me to get covid, and 8x more likely than me to get sick from it?
Yea, im retarded, a bad person, brain dead and all the other unintelligle attacks. But try to stick with the science and answer my question.

Absolutely incredible. You chose to not get vaccinated. You chose to ignore the overwhelming scientific consensus that this was a safe, cheap, and effective way of preventing severe illness from COVID. After choosing to not get the vaccine, you were hospitalized with COVID. You have no grasp of science and certainly cannot claim to be following it. We are in dire straits because millions of people like you made an irresponsible and ignorant choice to not get vaccinated. Beyond the costs to society, which have already been discussed, you put yourself in grave danger. CDC data shows that COVID hospitalizations have a mortality rate of roughly 10%, and that number rises to 95%+ if you're intubated. You should feel fortunate that you survived and stop parading your ignorance.

 

[Turk]

Absolutely incredible. You chose to not get vaccinated. You chose to ignore the overwhelming scientific consensus that this was a safe, cheap, and effective way of preventing severe illness from COVID. After choosing to not get the vaccine, you were hospitalized with COVID. You have no grasp of science and certainly cannot claim to be following it. We are in dire straits because millions of people like you made an irresponsible and ignorant choice to not get vaccinated. Beyond the costs to society, which have already been discussed, you put yourself in grave danger. CDC data shows that COVID hospitalizations have a mortality rate of roughly 10%, and that number rises to 95%+ if you're intubated. You should feel fortunate that you survived and stop parading your ignorance.

Im not sure you understood my question. Im not refuting all your rehashed dribble which actually had some merit. But your argument was past on a time I wasnt referring to and a different subject matter. My question to you was not why an unvaxxed person who never been thru covid should be vaccinated.
My question to you was why should someone who already been thru covid be vaccinated if such person is reasonably expected to keep 7x better covid response than one that is vaccinated?
To be sure, i think its reasonable that my immunity wont last forever but if you cant dissect the difference between an unvaxxed person who never had covid, with an unvaxxed person who has been thru covid then the conversation is lost. Cant lump them together. And for sure, today, like it or not, im more protected than you.

 

[stpaulcat]

That may be true. But the amish been using it for years. I dont know much about it

The Amish do their farming with horses. Turk, your delusion is actually charming, since it is so naive as to be almost believable. We are glad you are recovered and immune. What about the people you may have infected and may be dead?

 

[EvanstonCat]

So by that theory, we should all be wearing padded helmets when we walk around because our chance of fatal brain injury is heavily reduced if we fall down.

Not at all. The chances of you passing on the virus if you are carrying it to someone if you are unmasked is far higher than the chances of you falling down and succumbing to a fatal brain injury. And the chances of you getting infected if you are unvaccinated is likewise far higher these days than the chances of you falling down with a fatal brain injury.

 

[Gladeskat]

The problem is that the new data which still has to be peer reviewed is the exact opposite of previous data that you just espoused.
I mean, this stuff changes, like it or not. You are now 8 x more chance to get covid symptoms than me. That is significant. You can doubt it and it should be doubted until peer review but my point is that you cant, or shouldnt, have such a dogmatic stance.
Look, my own immunity will eventually fade. Ill look towards vaccines. But something is going wrong along the way with vaccines. Im sure the vaccines will evolve and we will stay on top of this. Imo we have mitigated this virus above expectations and Im guessing we are all fairly confident in sustaining.
But talk of dumb#$$ is foolish unintelligible

The only thing that's changed with the vaccines is that we have a new, more efficient variant with Delta. Their effectiveness was expected to decline over time. The max length of protection for these vaccines that I recall was about a year. Delta is probably shortening that immune period because of its efficiency.

If we don't drive down cases and spread with vaccines and other mitigation methods, an even more contagious variant will emerge. And now I hear there's a "Delta Plus" variant that is even more contagious. Those who argue that evolution should select for more highly contagious and less virulent strains (quacks like Geert Vanden Bossche, Peter Navarro) fail to realize that virulence has no limiting effect on spread and evolution of greater virulence if the disease progresses and kills its victims slowly. Indeed, the Delta variant is both a more efficient virus that spreads easily and it appears to be more virulent in terms of the percentage of victims requiring hospital care now.

The Delta variant carries a higher risk of hospitalization, a study finds. (Published 2021)

The analysis of more than 40,000 coronavirus infections in England adds to evidence suggesting that Delta may cause more severe illness than other variants do.

www.nytimes.com

Breakthroughs are Delta cases defeating vaccines taken months ago for other strains. New vaccines need to be developed that better neutralize newer dominant strains. Boosters are said to boost antibody levels exceeding those after the second shot of the first round of vaccinations. What has changed, as Turk reported, is the strength of naturally acquired immunity (NI) over vaccine immunity (VI) is emerging in the data now whereas that wasn't clear in the first few months after innoculation. There were reports that VI persons had higher titers of antibodies than NI people and immunity was supposed to be higher. That VI immunity seems to have eroded faster than NI over time.

 

[Gladeskat]

The group you left out are the unvaxxed who already had it. In florida, the unvaxxed who never had it is in a very small group. Delta is grabbing all of us unvaxxed.
Now, we are the safest people to be around. So safe that im going to start going to concerts again and parties. You wont get any covid from unvaxxed who went thru it.

Depends where you're located. Unvaccinated folks who've never had covid make up the majority of people where I live. That's the case for most rural counties along the "Nature coast".

 

[stpaulcat]

So by that theory, we should all be wearing padded helmets when we walk around because our chance of fatal brain injury is heavily reduced if we fall down.

Take a look at my sig pic. If you don't wear a padded helmet when riding an unprotected vehicle (e.g. motorcycle, bike, horse) you are already brain injured. Same should be true of walking in the case of unstable or disabled people.

 

[Gladeskat]

So by that theory, we should all be wearing padded helmets when we walk around because our chance of fatal brain injury is heavily reduced if we fall down.

If someone has poor balance or is prone to seizures, or lives in Earthquake City, yes. With a virus that has a 0.5% death rate and survivors have a 10-25% chance of long-term issues, yes. It's smart to get vaccinated for your safety and to protect those who are more vulnerable. Two free shots and wearing a mask in public, is that too much of a sacrifice to save lives?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Looks like the Rant board is back alive and well.

 

[AZCat]

......have to rely on the Miami Herald, but my pulmonologist is an expert and they treat with ivemectim.....

Ah, deflecting as usual, instead of facing the scientific FACTS!

Now I know you don't even read the articles that you post & others post.

In the Miami Herald article, they cite the actual maker of the drug. Merck!

"The maker of the drug, Merck, has also said there is 'no scientific basis' to claim that ivermectin is effective against COVID-19."

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Miami Herald. The actual maker of ivermectin - Merck - says there is no SCIENTIFIC BASIS that THEIR drug is effective against COVID. But what do they know? They just invented & tested the drug. But I'm sure you think the psychiatrist advising DeSantis on COVID, knows more about the drug & its effects than the actual maker of the drug.

 

[AZCat]

...This isnt smallpox. This is staying....

I wonder how we got the upper hand on smallpox? Oh, that's right, EVERBODY got vaccinated. Had there been scientific illiterates such as yourself around then, smallpox & polio would still be with us.

I have a smallpox vaccination scar - couldn't attend school without a vaccination.

Here is a cartoon - maybe you can grasp what it is saying.

The reason COVID isn't going away is because of people such as yourself!

 

[Alan Smithee]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that mean it spreads just as easily with those that are vaxxed as with those that are unvaxxed?

No. Viral loads are high in vaccinated individuals who contract Covid. But apparently vaccinated individuals transmit to others much less efficiently (for, among other reasons, their systems combat the virus much more efficiently and quickly, meaning they are contagious for a shorter duration and perhaps also to a lesser degree).

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Looks like the Rant board is back alive and well.

Right down to the unexplained deletion of posts that are good arguments. It’s hard to make points when your post indiscriminately deleted without explanation.

 

[Gladeskat]

I don't find really anything wrong with most of what Turk wrote except that his immunity will receive quite a boost when he does vaccinate. It's best for Turk to listen to his doctor then run out and get vaccinated, though.

The "science" is changing all the time with COVID and its new variants. I hope better therapeutics can be developed to increase survival of covid patients.

Ivermectin has looked promising in some trials and natural experiments (Brazil), unfortunately, the papers summarizing these results have been overly biased and suffer from major experimental design problems like not having suitable controls and randomization. Furthermore, these studies have been plagiarized and in a ridiculously obvious manner, and it raises questions about whether studies have been omitted and whether any of it is true. The papers were rejected and some removed from prepub venues. Therefore, the official word is that it has not been proven to be effective. I know it's in clinical trials and hope it is found to be highly effective. As Turk said, some doctors are prescribing it for their patients.

I've taken Ivermectin for a "larva migrans" infection (I kicked a wet cat turd in a small puddle while mowing the lawn) that itched like a mofo. It was creepy feeling this worm larva crawl around under your skin leaving a track on my foot. The pills cost me a few dollars, the emergency room cost me $870. Ivermectin is in lots of anti-heartworm medications for pets as well as livestock dewormer.

https://healthfeedback.org/claimrev...he-use-of-ivermectin-jim-hoft-gateway-pundit/

 

[stpaulcat]

Looks like the Rant board is back alive and well.

Been renamed the Turk Board. I think some of us predicted this.

 

[Gladeskat]

I’ll say it again. An extremely high percentage of unvaxxed people are the poor and homeless. What is the plan to get them vaxxed? Most of the excrement on the streets is coming from them. That doesn’t seem sanitary.

It is not an extremely high percentage, at least not in Florida, not compared to folks in rural communities who won't take a FREE vaccine for all sorts of reasons including politics and distrust of the US government. They are of all income levels here.

Community Facebook pages are totally nuts down here. Anything I post that's 'normal' and mainstream is considered trolling, LOL!

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

It is not an extremely high percentage, at least not in Florida, not compared to folks in rural communities who won't take a FREE vaccine for all sorts of reasons including politics and distrust of the US government. They are of all income levels here.

Community Facebook pages are totally nuts down here. Anything I post that's 'normal' and mainstream is considered trolling, LOL!

I would love to continue the discussion, but Florida keeps deleting my posts, so there’s no point.

 

[Frabjous]

Apologies if this has been posted already. The booster shot will be available to the general public Sept. 20 at the earliest.