OT: Wow, Justin Fields worth only a 6th “that could become” a 4th

[NUCat320]

Bears definitely made the right move to, I would assume, draft Caleb Williams. Potential generational talent, consensus top pick just about everywhere, etc., etc.

But, I don’t know, it seems like Fields has more value than a draft pick next year, and that the Bears are making a mistake dealing him given the limited return. Keeping Fields as a backup and seeing if an injury increases the potential market would make a ton more sense.

Oh well.

 

[hdhntr1]

Bears definitely made the right move too, I would assume, draft Caleb Williams. Potential generational talent, consensus top pick just about everywhere, etc., etc.

But, I don’t know, it seems like Fields has more value than a draft pick next year, and that the Bears are making a mistake dealing him given the limited return. Keeping Fields as a backup and seeing if an injury increases the potential market would make a ton more sense.

Oh well.

Sorry but that is a trade that should not have been made

 

[The_Waterboy]

The Bears are merely showing how mismanaged they truly are - one of the worst franchises in the NFL. Think about it... they go "all in" to draft Justin Fields as an NFL-level QB talent then use him essentially as a "throwing RB" who would absorb 10+ heavy hits over the course of every game he played-in. Stupid - Stupid - Stupid. I was just waiting 'til he got the High-Hard-One and would be sidelined for the season. He played injured virtually over his entire Bears career beyond the first 6 games he was first used.

I can imagine Fields' post season evaluation/interview session... I could honestly see him giving the Bears' HC & GM a middle finger salute before demanding to be traded or he would go into his own self-imposed tank for the 2024-25 season. And then the indignant Bears' GM trades him to the Steelers - one of the NFL's best run/managed franchises in the league - for a couple of cereal box tops and 3 packs of NFL bubble gum trading cards - and that... after Pittsburg signed Russell Wilson after his final 2 disastrous seasons with the Seahawks in '23 & '24.

 

[NUera]

Justin Fields' biggest problem was that he was a Bear. That Pittsburgh fleeced them is a fitting end to his time in Chicago.

 

[NUChicago]

So the Bears do it again, they will throw the number one pick on the field day one, the kid will struggle, the pressure takes over, and you have poor leadership. Rinse and repeat.

 

[CatManTrue]

So the Bears do it again, they will throw the number one pick on the field day one, the kid will struggle, the pressure takes over, and you have poor leadership. Rinse and repeat.

Bingo.

The Bears need new ownership or they’ll continue to embarrass themselves.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Bears definitely made the right move to, I would assume, draft Caleb Williams. Potential generational talent, consensus top pick just about everywhere, etc., etc.

But, I don’t know, it seems like Fields has more value than a draft pick next year, and that the Bears are making a mistake dealing him given the limited return. Keeping Fields as a backup and seeing if an injury increases the potential market would make a ton more sense.

Oh well.

Bears painted themselves into a corner by grossly overvaluing Fields and by not reading the draft QB tea leaves that will have at least 5 QB’s in round 1 and potentially another 2 in round two. Teams can have one of these QB’s on the cheap ( relatively) and they can develop the QB instead of trying to fix Justin.

However, there is just no way you can keep him on the roster to back up Williams. It would tear the team apart when Williams struggles.

 

[its_the_sauce]

Thinking we'll be having a similar discussion in 3-4 years

 

[Hungry Jack]

The market for mediocre starting QBs was set when Mac Jones got traded for an upgrade in the middle rounds of the draft. Then Lance got dealt for a 4th round pic (the Niners did relatively well in that trade).

I have nothing but sympathy for Fields. He was put in a horrible position by Nagy (that Cleveland game plan was criminally bad for a QB making his first start), and then stuck in a rebuild behind a terrible offensive line with guys like Dante Pettis, Byron Pringle, ESB and Velus Jones to help him. What a $hit show.

I wish Fields the best of luck. He is going to a great organization.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

The market for mediocre starting QBs was set when Mac Jones got traded for an upgrade in the middle rounds of the draft. Then Lance got dealt for a 4th round pic (the Niners did relatively well in that trade).

I have nothing but sympathy for Fields. He was put in a horrible position by Nagy (that Cleveland game plan was criminally bad for a QB making his first start), and then stuck in a rebuild behind a terrible offensive line with guys like Dante Pettis, Byron Pringle, ESB and Velus Jones to help him. What a $hit show.

I wish Fields the best of luck. He is going to a great organization.

The Steelers got more for Kenny Pickett. Let that sink in.

 

[CatManTrue]

The Steelers got more for Kenny Pickett. Let that sink in.

Kenny Pickett showed incredible football savvy on this, my favorite bowl play in recent memory. Don’t give up on him yet!

 

[Hungry Jack]

The Steelers got more for Kenny Pickett. Let that sink in.

Yup. Good return. At least he's got 2 years on his rookie deal plus whatever his 5th year turns out to be. He's not as much a known quanity as Fields at this point.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Bingo.

The Bears need new ownership or they’ll continue to embarrass themselves.

Absolutely this. It has been the one constant in the 40 years of craptitude since the SB.

I really hope they can build a modern stadium downtown, but not on the lakefront (public land). Any deal involving the Park District will result in a half-assed facility that leaves the Bears exactly where they are today: a substandard facility with limited (by NFL standards) revenue potential and a less than optimal fan experience. Any deal involving public land or comparable public support will hamstring the asset's potential. The City with its aldermanic politics and culture of graft will extract its pound of flesh from any project of this magnitude.

That said, the Bears do not have the cash to fund a stadium on their own. The $8B franchise valuation is based on market value, not cash flow. The Bears have been underperforming on revenue and cash flow for decades. The McCaskeys don't spend flashy money, but they don't have nearly the liquid assets to get this thing done. Certainly they would need to sell some equity, as well as take on a LOT of debt.

So I think the best outcome is a sale. I don't get the sense the boys relish being NFL owners. Virginia is the only thing keeping the Bears from being sold to an owner with the business savvy to get the right stadium built.

 

[Alvious]

Four years from now: "Bears deal Williams to Pittsburgh for 5th round pick".

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Bears definitely made the right move to, I would assume, draft Caleb Williams. Potential generational talent, consensus top pick just about everywhere, etc., etc.

But, I don’t know, it seems like Fields has more value than a draft pick next year, and that the Bears are making a mistake dealing him given the limited return. Keeping Fields as a backup and seeing if an injury increases the potential market would make a ton more sense.

Oh well.

1) Poles misread the market and ended up getting back much less than anticipated.

2) Reportedly took less from PIT than another team with a more established QB (likely PHI or LAR) per Courtney Cronin, but instead steered Fields to PIT where he has a chance to parlay a decent “redshirt year” into a chance at starting in 2025. Guess that’s the “doing right by Justin” part Fields discussed.

3) Having both Fields and Williams in the building would have been untenable.

 

[Hungry Jack]

1) Poles misread the market and ended up getting back much less than anticipated.

2) Reportedly took less from PIT than another team with a more established QB (likely PHI or LAR) per Courtney Cronin, but instead steered Fields to PIT where he has a chance to parlay a decent “redshirt year” into a chance at starting in 2025. Guess that’s the “doing right by Justin” part Fields discussed.

3) Having both Fields and Williams in the building would have been untenable.

Criminal general managing if true

 

[gocatsgo2003]

So the Bears do it again, they will throw the number one pick on the field day one, the kid will struggle, the pressure takes over, and you have poor leadership. Rinse and repeat.

The Bears have the best setup a 1.1 QB will ever have walked into. Solid defense, veteran playmakers on offense, OL average but should be able to compete.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

The market for mediocre starting QBs was set when Mac Jones got traded for an upgrade in the middle rounds of the draft. Then Lance got dealt for a 4th round pic (the Niners did relatively well in that trade).

I have nothing but sympathy for Fields. He was put in a horrible position by Nagy (that Cleveland game plan was criminally bad for a QB making his first start), and then stuck in a rebuild behind a terrible offensive line with guys like Dante Pettis, Byron Pringle, ESB and Velus Jones to help him. What a $hit show.

I wish Fields the best of luck. He is going to a great organization.

That’s the current “former starter turned backup” market. The NFL told the Bears how Fields is viewed throughout the league.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

The Steelers got more for Kenny Pickett. Let that sink in.

Pickett has two years of even cheaper control. Poles supposedly turned down more compensation from a team with a more established QB per Courtney Cronin at ESPN, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if that were PHI with the same framework as the Pickett trade.

 

[Hungry Jack]

That’s the current “former starter turned backup” market. The NFL told the Bears how Fields is viewed throughout the league.

Exactly. Trade market rarely lies.

 

[NUCat320]

The Bears have the best setup a 1.1 QB will ever have walked into. Solid defense, veteran playmakers on offense, OL average but should be able to compete.

That’s right. They had to choose Williams because Williams comes in on a rookie scale contract, and they can afford to potentially overpay elsewhere before he becomes a $50 million a year player (or fails, at which point you start over).

Wouldn’t sending Fields to work behind old-ass Matthew Stafford, with a coach who knows how to run an offense, be doing “even better by Justin?” He’s never going to run a good offense in PIT, because PIT never runs a good offense. Oh well.

The Bears are hilariously bad. I’m assuming Cutler has most of Sid Luckman’s records now.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Bears have work to do on offensive line

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Pickett has two years of even cheaper control. Poles supposedly turned down more compensation from a team with a more established QB per Courtney Cronin at ESPN, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if that were PHI with the same framework as the Pickett trade.

Why would he turn down more compensation? Division team?

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Bears have work to do on offensive line

Not really, IMO. Wright is solid at RT, Davis should be better at RG (plus his contract means he’s here for at least one more year), Jenkins should be good at LG, and Jones is at least average at LT. C still an issue, but at least you’ve got both Bates and Shelton.

One guy who fits Poles’ MO to a T is SDSU iOL Mason McCormick. Highly athletic, leaner build with long arms for an iOL, and G/C versatility. I’d imagine he's a target if still there at 122, maybe even 75. Also if we trade back from 1.9 to get additional mid-round capital.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

That’s right. They had to choose Williams because Williams comes in on a rookie scale contract, and they can afford to potentially overpay elsewhere before he becomes a $50 million a year player (or fails, at which point you start over).

Wouldn’t sending Fields to work behind old-ass Matthew Stafford, with a coach who knows how to run an offense, be doing “even better by Justin?” He’s never going to run a good offense in PIT, because PIT never runs a good offense. Oh well.

The Bears are hilariously bad. I’m assuming Cutler has most of Sid Luckman’s records now.

1) Stafford is old, but was much better last year after a down 2022 and is still under contract through 2026. Maybe he retires before then, but that’s no sure thing.

2) Fields is an interesting fit in Arthur Smith’s scheme. Wouldn’t be surprised if he has some packages every game, though PIT may not want to flirt with the 51% threshold that turns the pick into a 4 rather than a 6.

3) Still possible that Poles trades out of 1.1, using all the Williams reports as smoke screens to keep bidding high. All comes down to whether any of the other QBs are evaluated as “franchise guys.” There were some whispers months ago that Poles really likes Daniels.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Why would he turn down more compensation? Division team?

“Doing right by Justin.”

 

[NUCat320]

3) There were some whispers months ago that Poles really likes Daniels.

Gross.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Gross.

Daniels also comps to Geno Smith, which clearly worked in Waldron’s system even if it likely wasn’t Waldron’s first choice. Daniels or Maye + whatever you get for 1.1 (which would be a lot) could be > Williams.

I suspect that the Bears will do the pro day + top-30 visit with all of Williams, Maye, and Daniels, potentially even McCarthy and Penix. Take it down to draft day while keeping the price for 1.1 sky high, see if anyone wants to meet the price. Unlikely Poles moves off Williams if he’s completely sold, but not entirely implausible.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Daniels also comps to Geno Smith, which clearly worked in Waldron’s system even if it likely wasn’t Waldron’s first choice. Daniels or Maye + whatever you get for 1.1 (which would be a lot) could be > Williams.

I suspect that the Bears will do the pro day + top-30 visit with all of Williams, Maye, and Daniels, potentially even McCarthy and Penix. Take it down to draft day while keeping the price for 1.1 sky high, see if anyone wants to meet the price. Unlikely Poles moves off Williams if he’s completely sold, but not entirely implausible.

If he passes on Williams and he becomes Stroud or better, poles will be on the dole in 11 months. Don’t overthink this Williams > Maye or Daniels.

 

[clarificationcat]

Bingo.

The Bears need new ownership or they’ll continue to embarrass themselves.

The rookie quarterback is going to be playing with two experienced, pro-bowl receivers, two good tight ends, good running backs and a pretty good to good offensive line. And their defense is good. And he has an offensive coordinator that appears to be well respected. He's in very good position to succeed. Better than almost every other #1 pick.

Justin Fields played with a poor offensive line (even last year the offensive line didn't have everybody healthy until mid-season when Fields started playing better) and some mediocre to below average receivers. But he did not process reads as quickly as he needed to and that hurt him and the offense. He was getting better and I think they would have been fine keeping him and trading for more picks. I was kind of rooting for that. But a majority of folks that I have read think that Caleb Williams has the potential to be a great quarterback. If the Bears just had the number 9 pick, I think they would have held on to Fields. They get to restart the quarterback contract with the number 1 quarterback in the draft (and many people's number one player in the draft). Hard to pass that up if you are not 100% sold on your current quarterback.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

If he passes on Williams and he becomes Stroud or better, poles will be on the dole in 11 months. Don’t overthink this Williams > Maye or Daniels.

Or maybe Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels is to Caleb Williams what CJ Stroud is to Bryce Young (at least through year one).

It’s at least worth running fully to ground if you’re Poles.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Not really, IMO. Wright is solid at RT, Davis should be better at RG (plus his contract means he’s here for at least one more year), Jenkins should be good at LG, and Jones is at least average at LT. C still an issue, but at least you’ve got both Bates and Shelton.

One guy who fits Poles’ MO to a T is SDSU iOL Mason McCormick. Highly athletic, leaner build with long arms for an iOL, and G/C versatility. I’d imagine he's a target if still there at 122, maybe even 75. Also if we trade back from 1.9 to get additional mid-round capital.

The problem with those guards is their health. Davis had some family issues last year that affected his play, but he also was not healthy. Jenkins has yet to last full season.

There’s obviously a big hole at center, which I am sure Poles will fill.

I think the jury is still out on Braxton Jones. Wright looks to be a fixture at right tackle.

 

[NUCat320]

 

[gocatsgo2003]

The problem with those guards is their health. Davis had some family issues last year that affected his play, but he also was not healthy. Jenkins has yet to last full season.

There’s obviously a big hole at center, which I am sure Poles will fill.

I think the jury is still out on Braxton Jones. Wright looks to be a fixture at right tackle.

The guard health situation is exactly why Poles brought in both Bates and Shelton. Bates has played mostly guard and come center in his career, Shelton primarily center some guard. Neither are world-beaters, but solid veteran depth at worst. I personally wouldn’t mind signing Connor Williams as well if his market comes down a bit due to his ACL recovery. More likely would be a mid-round draft pick on a versatile iOL prospect like McCormick.

Jones seems to be at least playable at LT, at issue is whether the delta between Jones (and two more years of dirt cheap contract) and using a premium pick on LT at 1.9 (and four years of cheap control plus a 5th-year option) is enough to pass on either an EDGE, WR, or added draft capital from trading back.

We shall see, but I doubt we see Poles going LT early… though Alt slipping to 1.9 would at least be a conundrum. In full disclosure, I’m not personally a Fashanu guy, I think him at 1.9 would be a stretch.

 

[Hungry Jack]

The guard health situation is exactly why Poles brought in both Bates and Shelton. Bates has played mostly guard and come center in his career, Shelton primarily center some guard. Neither are world-beaters, but solid veteran depth at worst. I personally wouldn’t mind signing Connor Williams as well if his market comes down a bit due to his ACL recovery. More likely would be a mid-round draft pick on a versatile iOL prospect like McCormick.

Jones seems to be at least playable at LT, at issue is whether the delta between Jones (and two more years of dirt cheap contract) and using a premium pick on LT at 1.9 (and four years of cheap control plus a 5th-year option) is enough to pass on either an EDGE, WR, or added draft capital from trading back.

We shall see, but I doubt we see Poles going LT early… though Alt slipping to 1.9 would at least be a conundrum. In full disclosure, I’m not personally a Fashanu guy, I think him at 1.9 would be a stretch.

The depth at guard is good, but those guys are not really starters. Jones is certainly playable and perhaps will improve. I think a good center would really help the interior, so that’s where I’d go next. It doesn’t seem like a great tackle crop in the draft.

I don’t know if Dexter is the answer at 3T, but I’d sure love to have one. And a rush end.

Poles has improved the roster dramatically in 2 years. I think it’s a borderline playoff team with a few more adds.

 

[ohiovalleycat]

The Steelers are my long-time favorite NFL team, so this is great for me. Steelers fans are hyped up. There was moderate excitement earlier in the week when they got Russell Wilson for the league minimum (with Denver still on the hook for about $38 million). But the news Saturday that Justin Fields would be coming in as the backup brought great excitement for Steelers fans. It wasn't just that Fields has a high upside and has a chance to learn behind a Super Bowl-winning and potentially Hall-of-Fame quarterback, but just the huge shift in the quarterback room in leaving behind the drab Pickett-Mason Rudolph-Mitch Tribusky quarterback room to having quarterbacks with actual playmaking ability is just breathtaking.

And for the Steelers, it is a low risk/high reward proposition -- if lets say, Wilson or Fields doesn't work out, it is easy to just walk away. On the high reward side, which actually isn't outside the world of possibilities to happen, Russell Wilson is able to give the Steelers 2 or 3 good years and then lead into Fields taking over is a smoother quarterback succession like Green Bay has done in recent decades.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

The depth at guard is good, but those guys are not really starters. Jones is certainly playable and perhaps will improve. I think a good center would really help the interior, so that’s where I’d go next. It doesn’t seem like a great tackle crop in the draft.

I don’t know if Dexter is the answer at 3T, but I’d sure love to have one. And a rush end.

Poles has improved the roster dramatically in 2 years. I think it’s a borderline playoff team with a few more adds.

General consensus is that the 2024 draft is extremely strong at tackle — Alt, Fashanu, Mims, Morgan, Latham, Fuaga, etc. Some of those guys profile more as RT than LT so wouldn’t really fit for Chicago, but it’s a pretty darn strong tackle group.

Personally I would sign the following to 1- or 2-year contracts (still have ~$32MM in space) then go best player available in the draft: (1) Chase Young or Jadeveon Clowney, (2) Calais Campbell, and (3) Tyler Boyd. Maximizes leverage in the draft for trade-back’s as well.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

The Steelers are my long-time favorite NFL team, so this is great for me. Steelers fans are hyped up. There was moderate excitement earlier in the week when they got Russell Wilson for the league minimum (with Denver still on the hook for about $38 million). But the news Saturday that Justin Fields would be coming in as the backup brought great excitement for Steelers fans. It wasn't just that Fields has a high upside and has a chance to learn behind a Super Bowl-winning and potentially Hall-of-Fame quarterback, but just the huge shift in the quarterback room in leaving behind the drab Pickett-Mason Rudolph-Mitch Tribusky quarterback room to having quarterbacks with actual playmaking ability is just breathtaking.

And for the Steelers, it is a low risk/high reward proposition -- if lets say, Wilson or Fields doesn't work out, it is easy to just walk away. On the high reward side, which actually isn't outside the world of possibilities to happen, Russell Wilson is able to give the Steelers 2 or 3 good years and then lead into Fields taking over is a smoother quarterback succession like Green Bay has done in recent decades.

Hard to argue against two starter-to-fringe starter QBs for $4.5MM in cap space. Will ultimately amount to a year-long tryout between Russ and Fields for the Steelers’ medium-term starting spot.

 

[Hungry Jack]

General consensus is that the 2024 draft is extremely strong at tackle — Alt, Fashanu, Mims, Morgan, Latham, Fuaga, etc. Some of those guys profile more as RT than LT so wouldn’t really fit for Chicago, but it’s a pretty darn strong tackle group.

Personally I would sign the following to 1- or 2-year contracts (still have ~$32MM in space) then go best player available in the draft: (1) Chase Young or Jadeveon Clowney, (2) Calais Campbell, and (3) Tyler Boyd. Maximizes leverage in the draft for trade-back’s as well.

I went to the Falcons game at Soldier. Campbell dwarfed the rest of the players.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I went to the Falcons game at Soldier. Campbell dwarfed the rest of the players.

Massive dude. Can take reps at both DE and 3-tech while providing a ton of veteran leadership for the Bears’ young 3-tech’s.