True. But employees still can follow executives around. They just cannot be solicited by the executive after he/she has left.
PJ pulling a Franklin
- Thread starter Purple Pile Driver
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Don't think most have even seen the campus. They aren't going there to play no school.
I would take playing football at Minnesota over WMU in a heart beat too. Who cares that Minnesota is pulling 6 kids who's best offers were MAC programs?
Their recruiting had not been going very well, and they still had plenty of scholarships to give.
The WMU players that helped recruit them and who Fleck spun his family BS too.
I don't think they are recruits that have many B1G offers, some I don't think had any. The balance of power isn't shifting, I know.
Personally, I am not worried about Fleck building a power like some seem to be. IMO he has an enormous ego and his no respect schtick is tiresome.
I just think it is a crappy thing to do to your former players when you harp on we are all in this together.
Why is it any worse than not extending an offer to these kids? For all we know the next WMU coach might run the triple option and maybe these kids as players would be totally unsuited for that style? When people change jobs there are ripple affects - it happens all the time and people learn to adapt.
If you're telling me these kids at WMU or being recruited to WMU didn't realize fleck would be gone once the first major offer came his way, then I think you're a little naive. Everyone at WMU knew this was just a matter of time.
Let's just say I can't wait to spank his smug ass at Ryan Field next year.
Maybe that is why Fleck got the job, he could promise 6 replacement players and start with a pretty clean slate after the scandal. Win Win
You might disagree with the transfers, but to try to say this is a negative academically is not even close to accurate. If you take a look at the academic comparison if WMU to Minn. they aren't even close.
Looking at the academic admissions as well as the graduation percentages and retention rates these kids just took a giant step upward as far as improving themselves as student athletes.
Then that is sad for the B1G. I am. Not surprised Minny did this as they have taken chances on marginal qualifiers that other P5 schools turned down (not implying any of these flips are marginal). However it is a sad statement - and I would say pretty unfair to the admissions process as a whole - to immediately accept six verbals from kids who could not possibly have gone through the admissions process in less than 24 hours (it was mentioned that none were recruited by Minny prior to Fleck).
Preventing kids from choosing what school they can go to would be a huge violation of antitrust laws. Once they have signed the papers on signing day it's a different matter altogether.
If the standards are already known, there's no need for an admissions process. The NCAA minimums are based exclusively on a sliding scale of core GPA and SAT/ACT.
This is such an annoying thread
Fleck did NOTHING WRONG
Fleck did NOTHING WRONG
Why don't you stop reading it or start your own thread on some scintillating topic?
This kind of thing always spins my head around. I want college athletics to be about loyalty and the personal, academic growth of the athletes and, well, being part of a community that uses sport to celebrate this community. So every time something like this comes up (dont forget it really started with students who thought they were very entitled because they were athletes) it just sticks it in my face the conflict that it is run by money and egos. Which makes me like and support the loyalty of a Coach like Fitz who is loyal to his school,players and coaches (to a fault?). In this case however I get that these kids had not even signed a letter of intent yet or even taken one class at WMU. The options they had have changed. Who knows maybe WMU hires Les Miles and before signing day the kids who committed to WMU,changed to UM change back to WMU,,,,,,just saying. I also think I might feel differently if Pajamas tries to take players that are on the WMU roster.
Am I reading this correctly? Let's punish unsigned student-athletes who want to play for Fleck because a Fleck takes another job? A school takes priority over the wishes of the player? Why? Because the fans don't want their precious football team to suffer? Boo hoo. That should be lowest priority, IMO, and yeah, I know they were recruited on the first school's dime. Tough! That school chose to play in this athletics circus sideshow, even though it is not a part of their mission.
What do people want? Zero mobility for coaches? Force students to choose schools rather than coaches, even though only about 4.31% players actually select schools on the basis of their academics. How can most athletes even evaluate other aspects of the school aside from the football program anyway? Many don't even know what they want to major in. There is simply no fair way to handle a coaching change that is far to athletes. Former NU players wanted to play for Barnett so badly they burned some of their eligibility.
Then the silly academic standards and vetting thing, as if Minny has any higher standards for athletes than a MAC school. Considering how many JUCO players they take, Minny may have even lower standards than a few MAC programs. It's amazing how low schools go to cash in on NCAA athletics.
Maybe I need another cup of coffee and a pinch of snuff to understand this thread.
What do people want? Zero mobility for coaches? Force students to choose schools rather than coaches, even though only about 4.31% players actually select schools on the basis of their academics. How can most athletes even evaluate other aspects of the school aside from the football program anyway? Many don't even know what they want to major in. There is simply no fair way to handle a coaching change that is far to athletes. Former NU players wanted to play for Barnett so badly they burned some of their eligibility.
Then the silly academic standards and vetting thing, as if Minny has any higher standards for athletes than a MAC school. Considering how many JUCO players they take, Minny may have even lower standards than a few MAC programs. It's amazing how low schools go to cash in on NCAA athletics.
Maybe I need another cup of coffee and a pinch of snuff to understand this thread.
I think that some posters see disingenuousness in a coach that goes all in for the school and recruits all in the for the school when, in reality, he might leave for a better offer at any time. I think that they believe he should wear a t-shirt with a warning label on it when he visits recruits that says "WARNING: If I get an offer that doubles my salary and increases my chances to compete at the highest level, I may change jobs without notice."
How many people on this board have said something like "I want to settle down and make a career with your company." And then left four years later.
There is nothing wrong with this.
Poaching unsigned recruits? A little tacky but still not really wrong. If they want to play for the coach and the new school and they have not signed, then they have that right.
As we all know, there are a lot of instances of decommits right before signing day. At least WMU has some time frame to go in another direction.
I don't have any issue with either the recruit or the coach leaving. My issue is the staffs that spin bullshit on the roster about "we have to stick together as a family". It's garbage. The players that are on the roster aren't allowed to pick up and leave like either the coaches or the recruits. If it's a family, the Father just picked up and left.
Fleck is taking pretty much taking every recruit he can. In other words f&$# the old family, I got a new one I need to take care of. All of this would seem a little more normal if the guy leaving wasn't a flim flam self promoting salesman that preached over and over his family concept. I think it is just as naive to think there wasn't prearranged deals with the recruits who IMMEDIATELY flipped. Again, for the umpteenth time, recruits should be able to do this, but find his tactics and actions with the existing roster inconsistent with his message to the recruits.
Not sure where some posters have been for the past 20 years. This is not a new phenomenon of a coach leaving and taking recruits with them.
As much as I love the 'Cats, I will not shed one tear when the sham of "amateur" football and basketball implodes and real minor leagues that is viable for the pros are established OR a baseball-like system is established.
As much as I love the 'Cats, I will not shed one tear when the sham of "amateur" football and basketball implodes and real minor leagues that is viable for the pros are established OR a baseball-like system is established.
I think people forget the other side of this. A new coach at WMU does not have to honor any verbal commits given to the past coach. There are countless cases of kids who have committed to schools that have seen the coach fired and then they are out in the cold. In this case, we are talking MAC and B1G and MAC schools understand this. They lose committed recruits all the time when a last minute spot opens near signing day at a B1G school and they throw a late offer to a MAC player. I don't think anyone is getting hurt with this move.
Kudos to WMU. Under the circumstances, I think they made the perfect hire. Pretty much a "no brainier". I'd sure love to see a WMU-Minny matchup in the near future...now that would be an interesting game.
What about the 5 commits that Claeys had at Minny that have been "forced" to decommit when PJ didn't honor Claeys offer?
I believe that Tim Lester has some openings at WMU.
1. A new coach comes in and sits down with a commit. He explains that the commit's abilities do not align with the incoming style of play. The commit will almost certainly never make the two deep and will never play. Discuss it and come to a mutual agreement. They leave. Incoming coach is evil?
2. A new coach comes in and realizes the previous regime had very different standards as regards player character and sees potential problems in the background checks of some of the present commits. He explains to them clearly what will be expected of them and that they will be under zero-tolerance starting right now. Discuss it and come to mutual agreement. They leave. Incoming coach is evil?
I have no knowledge of any facts regarding Minnesota. I am just postulating some scenarios where it is appropriate for an incoming coach to make changes among his commits.
1. Previous coach accepted players verbal therefore deeming them qualified to play at said school. Player shuts down recruitment from other schools. Spots fill up at other school since it is less than a month to signing day. New coach says you were good enough for previous coach but not for me. New coach brings in half the squad he recruited for previous lower regarding school ( conference wise) and fills your position slots with guys that never stepped foot on campus. Evil? Maybe not. Ahole, yes.
2. Major stretch in this case as there is zero evidence of such character issues. One maybe, Five leaving, so far, no way. In fact, said coach is the one who has a history of accepting recruits with baggage. It is what it is. He thought he had better and kicked them to the curb. Evil, no. AHole, yes.
Yes, this happens at many places. Recruiting is not glamorous for most. It is ugly and it brings the worst out in some. Most places don't care about much other than the W. They spew family mantra as if the kid should have some type of loyalty to them, when they turn around and do what is in their best interests every single day. They wipe the slate of their "mistakes" in recruiting with terms such as Meritocracy or stop contact all together when they land a preferred prospect. They de facto encourage transfers by ignoring the previous coaches players. Yep, PJ is not alone in his actions and the Minny fans that blasted others for doing will jump on board with his actions because it is likely he will do better than previous coaches.
Do you have a link to a list of the forced decommitts? I'd be interested to see the names. Thx
It's true that this type of stuff happens at a loot of Power 5 schools but it doesn't make it right. Having a talk with cmmittted recruits regarding possible playing time is one thing but just kicking them to the curb is another. Yes, Fleck may have different character standards then the previous HC but seems like his might present even more problems. He ain't no Mr. Clean.
Interesting list. Gaynor flipped to Mami a while ago. Let's see if some of the others end up at WMU!
I did not realize that Fleck lost a very young child to a heart condition.
That's a road I wish no one would ever have to travel. I wish him the best.
That's a road I wish no one would ever have to travel. I wish him the best.
I believe he lost two young children to congenital heart problems. No one should go through that.
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