PJ pulling a Franklin

[Purple Pile Driver]

Looks like we are going to a shot a WMU at Ryan field again next year or a few years after. PJ has already flipped 6 WMU verbals to Minny. I certainly understand that recruits have to go where they are comfortable with the school and the coach. I don't believe any of these guys were on Minnys radar and I suspect most have never been on campus.

What gets me is the line of bull guys like PJ and Franklin pull about be one big family. Us against the world manta. Row the fricking boat and I have 3 daughters and 85 sons! PJ will take a few more from WMU and totally destroy this year's class for them. Wonder how WMU's freshman class that committed to PJ feel as he dismantles the depth that they need to continue to compete for titles? PJ has always sold PJ and maybe those that signed on last year realized that. I have my doubts. Why would this year's class sign on with PJ if it was obvious he wouldn't be there for there 4-5 years? Well, I think you are seeing the reason right now. Bet there were plenty of discussions around " if I go I'll take you with me".

These guys are not big 4-5 star recruits and their rankings are modest by B1G standards, but these guys all remind us the college football is a big time business. Some of these coaches strike me as self serving snake oil salesman. I guess that is stating the obvious, but I just hate their BS mantra of its about the players and the team. No it is not. It's about me, the publicity seeking HC jumping for more money and a better opportunity. You are a vehicle for me to get there. If you happen to be on the team when I split, well sorry about that.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Wow!

 

[NJCat]

Looks like we are going to a shot a WMU at Ryan field again next year or a few years after. PJ has already flipped 6 WMU verbals to Minny. I certainly understand that recruits have to go where they are comfortable with the school and the coach. I don't believe any of these guys were on Minnys radar and I suspect most have never been on campus.

What gets me is the line of bull guys like PJ and Franklin pull about be one big family. Us against the world manta. Row the fricking boat and I have 3 daughters and 85 sons! PJ will take a few more from WMU and totally destroy this year's class for them. Wonder how WMU's freshman class that committed to PJ feel as he dismantles the depth that they need to continue to compete for titles? PJ has always sold PJ and maybe those that signed on last year realized that. I have my doubts. Why would this year's class sign on with PJ if it was obvious he wouldn't be there for there 4-5 years? Well, I think you are seeing the reason right now. Bet there were plenty of discussions around " if I go I'll take you with me".

These guys are not big 4-5 star recruits and their rankings are modest by B1G standards, but these guys all remind us the college football is a big time business. Some of these coaches strike me as self serving snake oil salesman. I guess that is stating the obvious, but I just hate their BS mantra of its about the players and the team. No it is not. It's about me, the publicity seeking HC jumping for more money and a better opportunity. You are a vehicle for me to get there. If you happen to be on the team when I split, well sorry about that.

If any of the WMU players currently enrolled at WMU believed that PJ would be their coach for their full term at the school, they were kidding themselves. Commit to a school not a coach.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

Just another day in the circus of D1 football...

 

[gocatsgo2003]

This is pretty standard for a head coach moving up a level.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

This is pretty standard for a head coach moving up a level.

Just because it's standard, doesn't make it right.

 

[DarthCat]

It is pretty standard, and that's why it's allowed to happen over and again. It should be outlawed, in that a coach can only take a player to a new school if that player already had an offer from the new school prior to the new coach taking it over. Just BS. The kids who chose Western Michigan this year, 15-20 kids or so, still have options and if they chose WMU for Fleck, they did it for the wrong reasons and should have to reconsider their own recent choices. Instead, Fleck is allowed to flip them, kids WMU paid to recruit through its own recruiting budget, and completely f--- WMU, the entire current team who will be significantly weakened for years by having a depleted '17 class, and its fans and donors. Just deplorable IMO, commonplace or not. Walker wouldn't do it, if you remember, and turned recent Miami of Ohio recruits away who asked to follow him to NU.

 

[FloridAlum]

I read an interview last night with one of the players who just decommitted. He said that the only reason he committed to Western Michigan was because of Fleck, and that he would be willing to follow him to any other school to which he got a job. We might feel that is stupid, but it is hard to argue with a kid who feels that way.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

It is pretty standard, and that's why it's allowed to happen over and again. It should be outlawed, in that a coach can only take a player to a new school if that player already had an offer from the new school prior to the new coach taking it over. Just BS. The kids who chose Western Michigan this year, 15-20 kids or so, still have options and if they chose WMU for Fleck, they did it for the wrong reasons and should have to reconsider their own recent choices. Instead, Fleck is allowed to flip them, kids WMU paid to recruit through its own recruiting budget, and completely f--- WMU, the entire current team who will be significantly weakened for years by having a depleted '17 class, and its fans and donors. Just deplorable IMO, commonplace or not. Walker wouldn't do it, if you remember, and turned recent Miami of Ohio recruits away who asked to follow him to NU.

Pretty easy to project your decision making process on kids who probably chose WMU in large part due to Fleck.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Pretty easy to project your decision making process on kids who probably chose WMU in large part due to Fleck.

My point was the absolute BS this coaches spin and how gullible these kids are to believe it. The fact the kids flip to Minny without even seeing the school tells you the idea of student athlete is laughable. Always has been.

You want to see what kind of smug, arrogant guy Fleck is, look up hid Presser at Minny. Me, Me, Me .......

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

This is pretty standard for a head coach moving up a level.

Don't remember a situation where 6 kids flipped the same day as the coach is announced. How many have Ruehle, Hermann, Broehm, et all flipped so far. Bet it is a lot less than PJ.

 

[DarthCat]

These kids still have time to take other offers. And the mantra is always to choose a school, not a person. A lot more people are being f'ed up who don't have a choice they can make to improve their situation by this than these kids who chose WMU for what is widely known to be a 'wrong reason' in recruiting. They have heard all recruiting season I am sure, to not pick a coach, but a school. Especialy a coach who everyone knew wouldn't be long for that job. Well, now they've learned why and can make a better decision in the next few weeks.

Uncertainty over who their new coach will be aside, this thoroughly screws WMU for years, and almost all of its current players who will be on a weaker team because an entire recruiting class after it's best ever season was pillaged by a coach who decided to make his problem (taking over a program with an uncertain recruiting situation) someone else's problem. And that someone else is the program that paid to recruit all of these kids in the first place.

I just despise this practice, and the fact that it is now commonplace doesn't make it right IMO. This is like saying it's okay to pay recruits and offer improper benefits under the table because it's commonplace.

 

[NJCat]

My point was the absolute BS this coaches spin and how gullible these kids are to believe it. The fact the kids flip to Minny without even seeing the school tells you the idea of student athlete is laughable.

Are you kidding? These kids hit the lottery. If none had offers to Minny before, then they should thank their lucky stars PJ moved there. Minneapolis or Kalamazoo? Easy choice. Big 10 or MAC? Easy choice. And if you don't think Minny is a better academic institution you aren't paying attention.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

I can't blame a single player for upgrading to a B1G school from a MAC school if given the opportunity.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

Absolutely nothing wrong with what Fleck did

 

[FloridAlum]

Are you kidding? These kids hit the lottery. If none had offers to Minny before, then they should thank their lucky stars PJ moved there. Minneapolis or Kalamazoo? Easy choice. Big 10 or MAC? Easy choice. And if you don't think Minny is a better academic institution you aren't paying attention.

and you forgot to mention the lutefisk

 

[NJCat]

and you forgot to mention the lutefisk

No i didn't!!!

 

[Frabjous]

If he is any relation to Bela Fleck, I'm thinking awesome banjo half time shows.

 

[DarthCat]

Absolutely nothing wrong with what Fleck did

Because........?

 

[Well cataloged]

Because........?

Because, as Omar Devon Little so eloquently put it in The Wire, "It's all in the game, man."

 

[seavue617]

Does anyone really think that these six flips were all vetted scholastically by Minny? I don't think it speaks well for Minny's academic standards for its' athletic program. Fleck apparently has carte-blanche.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Are you kidding? These kids hit the lottery. If none had offers to Minny before, then they should thank their lucky stars PJ moved there. Minneapolis or Kalamazoo? Easy choice. Big 10 or MAC? Easy choice. And if you don't think Minny is a better academic institution you aren't paying attention.

There is a lot of collateral damage here. The school gave him his first opportunity. The kids that stayed and believed his BS pitch got hosed. Might not be nothing technically wrong with what he is doing, but as I said he sales pitch was complete BS and the guys that stayed understand that now. Can't have it both ways.

 

[GlideCat]

Because........?

1. The six kids that flipped are being given a chance to play in the B1G.
2. The kids who remain committed to WMU did commit to the school and not the coach. They are where they want to be.
3. The players already on the team. Do they have last season without a Fleck? What an amazing experience! They got to play in the Cotton Bowl!
4. As far as the school. Did Fleck leave the WMU coaching job perceived as a better or worse job than when they hired him. I think much better.

Yes. The team is hurt for the next 2-3 years by the sudden damage to this class. But all-in-all, WMU is better off for the exposure that they would not have gotten without Fleck.

 

[willycat]

and you forgot to mention the lutefisk[ From what I've been told, it's an acquired taste and one that you don't want to acquire.

 

[NCRNU71]

Looks like we are going to a shot a WMU at Ryan field again next year or a few years after. PJ has already flipped 6 WMU verbals to Minny. I certainly understand that recruits have to go where they are comfortable with the school and the coach. I don't believe any of these guys were on Minnys radar and I suspect most have never been on campus.

What gets me is the line of bull guys like PJ and Franklin pull about be one big family. Us against the world manta. Row the fricking boat and I have 3 daughters and 85 sons! PJ will take a few more from WMU and totally destroy this year's class for them. Wonder how WMU's freshman class that committed to PJ feel as he dismantles the depth that they need to continue to compete for titles? PJ has always sold PJ and maybe those that signed on last year realized that. I have my doubts. Why would this year's class sign on with PJ if it was obvious he wouldn't be there for there 4-5 years? Well, I think you are seeing the reason right now. Bet there were plenty of discussions around " if I go I'll take you with me".

These guys are not big 4-5 star recruits and their rankings are modest by B1G standards, but these guys all remind us the college football is a big time business. Some of these coaches strike me as self serving snake oil salesman. I guess that is stating the obvious, but I just hate their BS mantra of its about the players and the team. No it is not. It's about me, the publicity seeking HC jumping for more money and a better opportunity. You are a vehicle for me to get there. If you happen to be on the team when I split, well sorry about that.

The class of 2017 recruits can switch their commitments without penalty and should be allowed to enroll wherever they feel would be in their best interests. What about the previous classes (current freshmen and sophomores) who enrolled in WMU to play for Fleck--they would be penalized if they wanted to transfer and would have to sit out a year. And what about the current Minnesota players who thought they would be playing for Claeys and his "standards"?

 

[Catslash]

If not for a Thorson fumble Fleck is still a Bronco.

 

[chicagocatfan24]

1. The six kids that flipped are being given a chance to play in the B1G.
2. The kids who remain committed to WMU did commit to the school and not the coach. They are where they want to be.
3. The players already on the team. Do they have last season without a Fleck? What an amazing experience! They got to play in the Cotton Bowl!
4. As far as the school. Did Fleck leave the WMU coaching job perceived as a better or worse job than when they hired him. I think much better.

Yes. The team is hurt for the next 2-3 years by the sudden damage to this class. But all-in-all, WMU is better off for the exposure that they would not have gotten without Fleck.

This ^

Fitz flips players every year. It's the name of the game and happens any time there's a big coaching change like this

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Does anyone really think that these six flips were all vetted scholastically by Minny? I don't think it speaks well for Minny's academic standards for its' athletic program. Fleck apparently has carte-blanche.

Most P5 schools simply use NCAA Clearinghouse requirements.

 

[Deeringfish]

I don't see the "commit to the school not the coach" mantra as an absolute. Most schools are not as special as NU. Many directional schools are pretty interchangeable. Michigan has a ton of them. If Fleck is a guy you want as a mentor and you haven't connected with other coaches in the same way, I say go with the person not the thing. They don't pay the professors millions, they pay the coaches. Somebody besides the 18 year old players think these coaches are a big deal.

 

[NUCat320]

Would WMU change positions with CMU?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

This ^

Fitz flips players every year. It's the name of the game and happens any time there's a big coaching change like this

This comparison is not even close. Has Fitz connected with this years recruits. I suspect yes. Has he told them, if I take another HC role you are still my guy? I suspect No.

I laugh at these people who get upset that Ant is going Pro. I agree 100% with the concept that the player has to do right by the player. Ant had to go and hope 6 guys from NU leave early next year. The point I have tried to make is almost all coaches are full of sh&t . Fleck is worried about Fleck the same exact way. If he wins the B1G he will leave and destroy a similar class for Minny.

Saying it's your job ole Hoss sure don't make it right. I got no problem with the recruits getting a chance to change there decision. I have a problem with the sales job Fleck and others spin on building something without even acknowledging that they may leave. The kids remaining in the problem are getting jobbed due to Fleck aggressively going after recruits that committed to be their teammates. It's very unlikely all these flips immediately called up Fleck and said take me with you. No, they had a prearranged agreement that he would take as many as he can. There are things in the business world that limit this type of damage, they are called non-compete agreements.

Can a player change teams without sitting out a transfer year? Mister HC can move at will and then repays the school that gave him a chance by destroying the recruiting class. Nice.

 

[NUCat320]

I don't see the "commit to the school not the coach" mantra as an absolute. Most schools are not as special as NU. Many directional schools are pretty interchangeable. Michigan has a ton of them. If Fleck is a guy you want as a mentor and you haven't connected with other coaches in the same way, I say go with the person not the thing. They don't pay the professors millions, they pay the coaches. Somebody besides the 18 year old players think these coaches are a big deal.

The coach and staff and the program he's built are the entity that will have the single biggest impact on a football players' life during the time they're at a school.

In my opinion, you can get a great education anywhere, if that's what you want. The school matters - but the football program, in almost all cases - matters more.

 

[boonman1]

Whats the big deal ? If he has any success at Minn . he will be gone in 3 to 4 years anyway,

 

[Hungry Jack]

I have a hard time getting bent over Fleck's actions, and commits following him. There are certainly some parallels in the corporate world, where employees will follow (or get poached by) executives to new companies. A difference is that in the corporate world, there is a track record of mutual benefit, whereas in CFB recruiting, it's basically an act of faith that the relationship will bear fruit once the commit is signed.

I'd say that signed players who see a head coach leave within, say 30 days of Signing Day, should be released from their LOI if desired. The issue here is that schollies are pretty much gone at that point, so the door is effectively closed.

 

[purple11]

Looks like we are going to a shot a WMU at Ryan field again next year or a few years after. PJ has already flipped 6 WMU verbals to Minny. I certainly understand that recruits have to go where they are comfortable with the school and the coach. I don't believe any of these guys were on Minnys radar and I suspect most have never been on campus.

What gets me is the line of bull guys like PJ and Franklin pull about be one big family. Us against the world manta. Row the fricking boat and I have 3 daughters and 85 sons! PJ will take a few more from WMU and totally destroy this year's class for them. Wonder how WMU's freshman class that committed to PJ feel as he dismantles the depth that they need to continue to compete for titles? PJ has always sold PJ and maybe those that signed on last year realized that. I have my doubts. Why would this year's class sign on with PJ if it was obvious he wouldn't be there for there 4-5 years? Well, I think you are seeing the reason right now. Bet there were plenty of discussions around " if I go I'll take you with me".

These guys are not big 4-5 star recruits and their rankings are modest by B1G standards, but these guys all remind us the college football is a big time business. Some of these coaches strike me as self serving snake oil salesman. I guess that is stating the obvious, but I just hate their BS mantra of its about the players and the team. No it is not. It's about me, the publicity seeking HC jumping for more money and a better opportunity. You are a vehicle for me to get there. If you happen to be on the team when I split, well sorry about that.

Did the 6 players that Fleck got to flip to Minny boot out a former Minny Commit? or was there enough space on the incoming roster to add the 6 former WMU verbals? While I would be happy for the former WMU verbals who get a chance to play in the Big Ten - it would royally suck if the Minny verbals was pushed out because of it.

 

[NJCat]

Did the 6 players that Fleck got to flip to Minny boot out a former Minny Commit? or was there enough space on the incoming roster to add the 6 former WMU verbals? While I would be happy for the former WMU verbals who get a chance to play in the Big Ten - it would royally suck if the Minny verbals was pushed out because of it.

I don't know, but with the 10 suspended players undergoing University eligibility review, I think it's a good bet that some of them won't return.....

 

[purple11]

I don't know, but with the 10 suspended players undergoing University eligibility review, I think it's a good bet that some of them won't return.....

Good point - will be interested to see how it plays out.

 

[willycat]

Did the 6 players that Fleck got to flip to Minny boot out a former Minny Commit? or was there enough space on the incoming roster to add the 6 former WMU verbals? While I would be happy for the former WMU verbals who get a chance to play in the Big Ten - it would royally suck if the Minny verbals was pushed out because of it.

I was just about to ask the same. Did Minny have 6 or more available scholarships or were six committed recruits "creamed"?

 

[NJCat]

I was just about to ask the same. Did Minny have 6 or more available scholarships or were six committed recruits "creamed"?

Minny has 21 commits now, not an unreasonable number for a school that doesn't red shirt extensively. I doubt there will be any Creaning done there.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

I have a hard time getting bent over Fleck's actions, and commits following him. There are certainly some parallels in the corporate world, where employees will follow (or get poached by) executives to new companies. A difference is that in the corporate world, there is a track record of mutual benefit, whereas in CFB recruiting, it's basically an act of faith that the relationship will bear fruit once the commit is signed.

I'd say that signed players who see a head coach leave within, say 30 days of Signing Day, should be released from their LOI if desired. The issue here is that schollies are pretty much gone at that point, so the door is effectively closed.

In the corporate world a "non-compete" clause is pretty standard these days...at least in my industry.