Yes there are and to my knowledge no one ever alleged that Vassar did not live up to those obligations. If he had, he would have been kicked out of school instead of being forced to work as a janitor to retain his scholarship. NU has an ethical obligation to live up to its end of the bargain that was made when the scholarship offer was made and accepted. Pat Fitzgerald believes in honoring those obligations while it’s pretty apparent in my mind that Chris Collins does not.
Polisky picked as AD
- Thread starter JournCat
- Start date
Yes there are and to my knowledge no one ever alleged that Vassar did not live up to those obligations. If he had, he would have been kicked out of school instead of being forced to work as a janitor to retain his scholarship. NU has an ethical obligation to live up to its end of the bargain that was made when the scholarship offer was made and accepted. Pat Fitzgerald believes in honoring those obligations while it’s pretty apparent in my mind that Chris Collins does not.
Why are the references by others to working with the groundskeeping crew?
Presumably this was just minimal part time work like most of us on scholarships were expected to participate in as well and not full time? (Of course it is my understanding that in more recent times the work option could be replaced by loans as part of the package although now that may not even be expected.)
Presumably this was just minimal part time work like most of us on scholarships were expected to participate in as well and not full time? (Of course it is my understanding that in more recent times the work option could be replaced by loans as part of the package although now that may not even be expected.)
Last edited:
Whether any of us like it or not, I think this is how most personnel decisions are made on earth.
"Oh, but the Ryans really like Mike."
And...done.
I will say this: I hope GoU's Athletic Dept source is accurate - that people in the Department love Mike, which says a lot when I think the general consensus is that Phillips built a first-class operation that radiated the kind of culture we generally think and hope exists.
Regarding the cheerleading accusations, as I've said before, whether they happened or not (and we may not ever truly know) it is hopefully a wake up call for administrators to pay close attention to what they ask of our students in general - and if Polisky isn't really a "student-focused" guy I hope the people responsible for booster events, etc. most certainly are.
Two sides to every story. Thanks for reminding us of that. Collins missed the red flags on Vassar...kid attended 4 high schools in 4 years. The signs were there.
Vassar "jumping schools" seems to be the exact opposite of whatever transpired at NU.
Right. Not sure how attending 4 high schools is related to Vassar being unable to play basketball at a D1 level, which was the core issue.
And his scholarship was honored. I’m still trying to figure out why some people are so angry over this.
What it suggests is that he did not have a track record of fitting in at previous schools. That could have been for a variety of reasons. Perhaps he wasn’t an easy personality to deal with or perhaps it was as simple as not being as good a player as expected and he transferred because of differences of opinion on playing time. Regardless, that should have been a clear warning sign to Collins. For whatever Collins chose to offer him a scholarship and when things predictably did not work out Collins tried to drive him off. When that did not work, he pulled a bait and switch and forced the kid to work as a janitor to keep the scholarship that Collins willingly offered him. Collins should have admitted his mistake and lived with the consequences of his decisions until the kid graduated. Instead he tried to humiliate the kid and drive him off. That’s just flat out unethical.
I don’t think you’re as privy to the situation as you think you are.
Hypothetical question, Corbi: If a scholarship player becomes so difficult to deal with that he becomes a serious detriment to the team in the locker room, what should or could a coach do? Kick him off the team and yank his scholarship, kick him off the team and let him keep his scholarship for doing nothing, keep his scholarship in exchange for work-study, or just grin and bear it and require his teammates to do the same? I am not saying this happened here, as I have no personal knowledge, but I was interested in your thinking given the position you have stated.
Perhaps the underlying ethical issue involved has something to do with work ethic,
Someone actually filed a lawsuit over being given the opportunity to do a little work while receiving a several hundred thousand dollar education ???
Last edited:
The same thing everyone else knows about this topic.
Obviously the best course. But what do you do after the mistake has been made and the situation in my hypothetical arises?
I want to know what the deal was with the time cards.
Also, my understanding was that his scholarship WAS switched to an academic scholarship, but that his spot was still never filled on the team. (Am I mistaken?)
If everything was above board, why not fill his spot?
Also, my understanding was that his scholarship WAS switched to an academic scholarship, but that his spot was still never filled on the team. (Am I mistaken?)
If everything was above board, why not fill his spot?
I have always been puzzled by this part of the story, but for the opposite reason. I have worked in only two jobs that involved punching a time card, but in both instances my supervisor created the time cards for all employees and left them next to the clock for use by employees. If that is what happened here, then why is it so surprising that the person who created the time card misspelled the name?
In my opinion the scholarship does not entitle one to a spot on the team but it does entitle him/her to four years of school paid for unless the player does something that warrants getting expelled from school. Under the scenario you described, I think you boot the player off the team but they still get to keep their free ride. A tough lesson to learn as a coach but it certainly makes one appreciate why Fitz is so deliberate before offering a scholarship. I highly doubt Fitz would have ever offered Vassar a scholarship but I am also highly confident that Fitz would not have made Vassar do janitorial work to retain his scholarship.
Last edited:
Oh please don’t make me laugh. You are the guy trying to argue that it is acceptable to make a player work as a janitor as an after the fact condition to retain his scholarship. Unless Vassar did something that warranted expulsion from school, there is no ethical justification for treating him like they did. Collins made the decision to offer the kid the scholarship and he should have lived with the consequences of making the offer to a player who was not a good enough player and/or did not have the character/work ethic that Collins wanted. Everyone involved in that incident should have been summarily fired by NU.
Last edited:
I’m the guy who played a sport at the school in question as well as another school so I have a clue how an athletic department works. You’re throwing out blind allegations and assuming it’s fact. It’s nothing new for you, but you’re wrong as usual.
Last edited:
I don't know what the standard procedures were for the internship program.
Vassar also claims that there's a time card in his name that shows punch-in and punch-out times on dates where Vassar has receipts that show that he was in California for his father's funeral. He said he never claimed to work on those dates. (And indeed, why would he. I would hope that bereavement is an excused absence for the internship program.)
Last edited:
LOL, ridiculous. Like I said, my ears are wide open any time you want to provide a basis to dispute the facts of this case as has been alleged in the legal complaint. I’ll wait.
Those who retire from their sport for medical reasons are required to work in the internship program as a condition to keep their scholarship. They were not expelled from the school, yet they must work in the internship program.
Note: they are switched to an academic scholarship and they no longer count against the athletic scholarship limit. Vassar did not retire for medical reasons and, although his scholarship was switched to an academic scholarship, I don't believe his spot on the team was ever filled while he remained with the school. Something there doesn't add up.
But having ex-players work in the internship program as a condition of maintaining their 4-year scholarship is definitely not new.
Apples and Oranges. The medical DQs have no choice. They can’t honor their end of the bargain because their health won’t allow it. Vassar was willing to play but was no longer allowed by the coach that offered him the scholarship in the first place. Collins was entitled to decide he no longer wanted Vassar on the team but given that choice, he was not entitled to impose other conditions on Vassar’s free ride to school.
Of course, CCC and the administration has to be silent due to the lawsuit and just the optics of getting in a splitting match with a guy you recruited. The tell tale signal to me is that I never heard a single teammate ever opine that Vassar got screwed. They are long gone from NU and wouldn’t fear retribution. Guys that transferred not a word. Recruiting at least on paper got better.
I spent more time with my college teammates that any other faction on campus. I bet it is the same for almost all college athletes regardless of the sport. If one of our teammates was going about it the right way, it didn’t matter if they were full ride, partial ride, or walk on, we would support them. Even if they weren’t talented enough to get into the game. We would support the player over the Coach in that situation. Recruits on visits would get the vibe too if that was the case. In this day of social media, teammates can and do bring down Coaches, where is the uproar from people close to the program?
Terrific post. I never got the sense JV’s teammates felt he was given a raw deal.
And of course he wasn't. Isn't Northwestern somewhat unique in helping to make sure an athlete who came aboard with an athletic scholarship has the opportunity to continue at Northwestern until they can get a degree even if they are not able to continue to play?
I have no idea. Scottie Lindsey, Dererk Pardon, Sanjay Lumpkin, and Bryant McIntosh follow him on Twitter.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/53x5pq/did-northwestern-basketball-run-off-johnnie-vassar
Such a text is claimed to exist.
But in this case, somebody might have been trying to free up an athletic scholarship for somebody else to use. But even after this scholarship was indeed changed to an academic scholarship, it seems that this freed athletic scholarship wasn't awarded to anybody else while Vassar remained with the school.
Following on Twitter is less personal then friends on FB. If you follow on Twitter it’s basically saying you know the person.
The burden of proof is on the plaintiff to prove the allegations in the complaint—allegations that necessarily are spun in favor of the plaintiff. In many contexts, the defendant cannot or should not comment publicly about the allegations, outside of court proceedings and filings. So only one side of the story often emerges publicly. Yet you want message board posters to disprove Vassar’s allegations with evidence, or you will assume them to be true? That is exactly backward.
I can’t take much Trahan says seriously. I expected the evidence to be him or one of the other Inside NU yahoo’s during that time period. Despite that claim, just no way in a team concept that one recruit from a class gets railroaded and the other recruits sit idle and nothing gets leaked except some anonymous quote. Years of this debate ( think Kain or Trevor) and nothing!
The haters should stick to the record CCC has to support their argument for replacement. Claims that CCC shouldn't be associated with NU or fired on the spot for the Vassar situation are ridiculous and people are quick to convict the man on a perception without possibly knowing the entire story.
I want a message board poster who claims he knows the facts of the case as outlined in the complaint to be false to disprove those claims. As I stated earlier in this thread, There are certain undeniable facts about this situation that one cannot dispute. First, of his own free will Collins offered Vassar a scholarship to play basketball at NU, which vassar accepted. Second, Something happened which resulted in vassar no longer being on the team but still eligible to be an enrolled student at NU. Lastly, Vassar was forced to accept an after the fact condition which required him to work as a janitor in order to retain his free ride to NU. Whatever Vassar did to contribute to the situation, it wasn’t anything that got him kicked out of school and to me that is the only justification for pulling a scholarship. There is no justification for trying to humiliate a kid into forgoing his scholarship by forcing him to clean toilets in order to retain it. I don’t really care about the legal case. I doubt there was sufficient basis for the lawsuit to be brought. This is not about what was legal. What I do care about is NU and Collins acting ethically and honoring their obligations even when it isn’t convenient for them to do so. The facts as I have laid them out are sufficient for me to conclude that in this case they probably did not, which I find incredibly disappointing. I am open to any explanation or set of facts that would cause me to reconsider that conclusion.
Vassar voluntarily withdrew from the men's basketball program. He was stuck behind B-Mac and was convinced he was going to get an offer from another Power 5 program. Shockingly, despite averaging 0.8 points per game, that never happened. (Cue the lawsuit against the NCAA in which he supposedly didn't get these offers because he was going to have to sit out a year based upon transfer rules) So when he didn't the offers he thought he was going to get, Northwestern was kind enough to allow him to remain at the school on scholarship as a student, something it had absolutely no obligation to do. As a condition of remaining on scholarship, he held a work-study job with the facilities/grounds crew. For the last time, he wasn't a janitor and he wasn't cleaning toilets, so get rid of that myth. Once Vassar voluntarily withdrew from the program, Collins was finished with his involvement with him. So also get rid of the myth that Collins was in any way responsible for him doing anything with the work-study position. The work-study job was not an exclusive thing to Vassar. Any individual who was on scholarship who remained at the school but withdrew from a team for medical reasons or otherwise did the same. You can debate whether that should have been a condition or not, but that's how it was. As far as Polisky, he didn't force this upon Vassar. His involvement was that he was the administrator for men's basketball at the time. Why did Collins take Vassar in the first place when he had attended 4 high schools in 4 years? Valid question. That's on him. But he couldn't stand Sobo and didn't think he could come up with a worse option. Obviously he was wrong.
Football players who are no longer able to play on the field but want to remain on scholarship are often given menial tasks, but usually within the program (i.e. cutting tape, doing data-entry for scouting, etc.). Not janitorial, but definitely the "not fun" part of the job to keep contributing in some way.
We have also had football guys who did work for the facilities department, but that was a long while ago and not very often.
If I recall correctly, Vassar had to work something like 8 hours per week as part of a work study program. Not exactly back-breaking work, and there's pretty much zero chance it was "scrub the toilets with a toothbrush"-style work.
