Trey Pugh decided that Northwestern was an offer he couldn't pass up when he committed to the Wildcats Sunday.
Northwestern "has it all," says Pugh ($)
Northwestern "has it all," says Pugh ($)
Pugh: Northwestern "has everything Ohio State has, plus more"
- Thread starter lou v
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I'm glad he committed to NU, but to be transparent and fair, someone needs to set the kid straight.
There's plenty that NU doesn't have that dOSU has:
1. Aids Awareness and Golf classes for credit
2. "Tutors" that will write your papers and take your exams for you
3. Make-up oral exams in case you decide to flee your mid-terms because you have no clue about what is going on
4. Distribution quantity drugs and assault weapons in the possession of one's teammates
5. Kids in the program who have no business "playing school"
Just to mention a few. I could go on and on. Really, I could.
We also do not offer a Degree in Bachelors.
http://44tmty10gzq314zldj14iuvh.wpe...nt/uploads/2012/06/ohio-state-crying-man1.jpg
Here is something tOSU can keep for itself.
Here is something tOSU can keep for itself.
And don't forget the opportunity to play with future NFL players, a better than average chance to play in the NFL yourself- especially if you become a starter, a chance to play in multiple major bowls, a legitimate shot to play in the Conference Championship, playoffs, and National Championship, a quality degree if you choose to take advantage of that opportunity, but they do lose out in not getting the support of the gracious welcoming members of the Wildcat Football Board.
But I am happy for the kid who found what he wanted in a program at NU. He should be a good player for you guys.
Klemman ... thanks for stopping by again. One correction for you though. OSU does nothing other Power 5 schools don't do in getting their players to the NFL. Only God makes NFL athletes. OSU just does a better job of attracting some of God's better work. That's to be expected at places like OSU ... with all of its exceptional institutional advantages for fielding very successful football teams.
GOUNUII
And Dean Lowry would be a top 50 pick if his arms were an inch and a half longer. My point is that his draft status is greatly influenced by arm length, not at all by who he practiced against.
And your NFL related point was?
BTW ... football players with great potential also get lost in the shuffle at football factories like OSU. Witness what happened to Cardale Jones ... a complete unknown going into the 2014 season. Only highly unlikely circumstances got the 3rd stringer on the field that season. And had that not happened, he would have no chance of ever signing an NFL contract. Of course, he would have been a rich first rounder had he made a quick exit. Instead, he went back into a stacked situation at OSU and is now seen as a late reach pick or UFA. Funny what being at OSU can do for a player's draft stock. OSU draft picks would be draft picks at any other BIG school. But there are also plenty of Buckeyes who had the skills to make it but never got the chance.
GOUNUII
Klemman, I just want to say that we all kind of rag on OSU for some stuff, myself included...I think part of it is that we kind of long to win at the level that OSU does (every program does)...when you post on here, I find you to be fair and objective about both programs, and I appreciate it! A lot of fans of other programs come over here to troll, and you don't, which I find refreshing!
I kind of think you missed my point. I meant playing against them in a game, like Lowry did while he played for Northwestern. It was Klemman who said NFL prospects need to practice with future NFL players. That is what I was arguing against. Geez.
Correction- I didn't say that prospects need to practice with future NFL players. I said a player at OSU gets to play with future NFL players. It does give some advantages in trying to make it to the next level, but it doesn't guarantee that you will get there nor is it a necessity to get there. What it does do is give your team a better chance of winning games and contending for championships.
10 years? Damn I'm getting old. I don't consider my debates with ECat as battles anymore. I think of it more of as two friends having fun arguing over beers.
Thanks Cat Fan. This might be the difference. While I am an OSU fan, and an OSU alum, I don't tie my ego or self worth to my fandom. Something which too many fans in all sports do, which makes them bias and in many cases bitter.
I do enjoy getting on this board because I do find the conversations for the most part intelligent and articulate, even if we sometimes disagree on the content.
You can play with NFL players, and a bunch of guys that are going to spend a lot of time in prison. I like to surround myself with good people.
Ok. If a football player doesn't want to surround themselves with NFL players, then I guess they shouldn't have the NFL as a career aspiration. As far as surrounding your self with a bunch of guys that are going to spend a lot of time in prison, I don't know if I would consider A couple of guys over a 10+year period (Clarett and Ray Small) surrounding yourself.
You see, Shakes is a perfect example of someone who lets his fandom tie in too much to his ego and self-worth, making him bitter and biased. Not only is he making a broad brush stroke and generalizing as all OSU players as the same- bad, but if he is saying that his hatred is based on individuals associated with OSU having made bad decisions which includes breaking the law, then if he supports any professional teams, or enjoys professional music recordings, television shows, or movies, he's also a hypocrite. There is a better than average chance that somebody associated with those projects or professions have also made mistakes that could qualify them as "bad" people.
I don't support any professional teams really except the cubs, but I don't think the Cubs have a history of arrests. Mark Grace has had a couple DUIs. Joe Pepitone got arrested for cocaine, but he was a little before my day. That said, poopoo happens. I'm not a big music fan either. I'll TV shows and movies, but I can't think of a lot of TV/movie stars that I watch that were arrested. Paul Ruebens is pretty funny though.
But you're dismissing the point. Players ie 20 year olds do make mistakes. People in positions of authority and those that are running the show shouldn't be making mistakes. Urban Meyer had a history of players being arrested at Florida. The AD and President of the University didn't give two poopoos because Urban Meyer is good at winning football games. So they hire Meyer because winning is more important than character. It's sad that you think it's ego which drives me to say that.
My battle isn't with kleman. We are just soldiers in a war and I respect his passion and defense of his program, as misled and deluded as he may be. There's nothing personal here.
I even think of some of the Bucks that I've gone back and forth with in the past with a weird fondness that I can't really explain. ScriptOhio, GoBucksMichiganSucks, and 5Starbuck to name a few.
Kleman does seem to be able to really push the limits without quite going over the line. I think he also wisely blows off some of the push back he gets recognizing that it is our board.
I'm glad he stays in our discussions.
Shakes, if you don't support Pro teams then we can take that off the table. Regarding the entertainment industry, it's not just the actors but others involved in the industry. I do agree that arrests or just publicized bad decisions by those in the industry are a minority, but still probably higher than the general population. Similar to what we see with athletes, including those at OSU.
Now let's go to your specific point with Meyer at Florida. He didn't have similar problems at Bowling Green or Utah, so it doesn't seem to be an issue of Meyer as it did the combination of Meyer and the program he was at. Looking at the situations at Florida, I would add that there seems to be a culture of problems for football players at the major programs within the state. If it was just with the Gators, then I would be more inclined to fully blame Meyer. But we've seen similar issues at FSU and Miami with different coaches. So there exists within that geography a different culture than what you would see for sure at NU, but to some extent more severe than at OSU as well.
If we look specifically at Meyer's involvement in Gainsville, there are absolute documented cases of problems. Meyer has publicly said he made mistakes, if he could have changed some things he would have, and that the stress that developed because of the pressure to win along with the problems within the program was among the things that effected his health and led to his retirement. That's about as honest of an accounting as you can have.
And since he's been at OSU, the punishments he has given players have been generally greater than what either the school or NCAA rules require or precedents dictate. Players still make mistakes, Meyer will still make mistakes, but how he has evolved has been to the positive.
Why do we just assume that players will (or should get a free pass for) consistently mak(ing) mistakes?
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Ha. I love ECat's backhanded compliments. "I respect his opinions (kind of), even if they're stupid." Lol. I guess I'll just have to appreciate his use of my name , the word passion, and the word respect, all in the same post. And knowing that ECat might have a weird fondness for me just warms the cockles of my heart.
Free Pass? Adolphus Washington missed out on his last game as a Buckeye, a chance to play or even go to the Fiesta Bowl, and may have cost him some significant money in the draft. Barrett was suspended right when he was regaining his starting position, led to not playing for two weeks which may have contributed to the performance and loss to MSU- costing the team a slot in the conference championship and probably a spot in the playoffs and possibly the National Championship.
There wasn't a free pass. Pretty severe consequences for misdemeanor offenses. Punishments need to be consequential enough to be worthwhile, but not excessive for the acts.
Sorry, meant more for the coaches. If the players keep changing but keep making mistakes, then the common denominator is the coaching staff.
Gocats, it's a tough situation for the coaches. I know on this board the character of players at OSU get compared to NU. The coaches and administrator at NU deserve credit, but also because of the academic requirements the tendency is to get a more mature, disciplined, and intelligent athlete top to bottom. It does make it easier to have less disciplinary problems.
There are outstanding high character guys at OSU. There's also good guys who make mistakes, and there also end up being some bad guys. I think at a program like OSU, it is very difficult not to have problems show up here and there. As long as it isn't a problem that is persuasive within the program*,I don't hold the coaches as responsible for a players mistake, as much as I do how they handle a situation once it occurs.
* I know that somewhere out there is a poster just dying to post that it is a persuasive problem at OSU. In 2015 a report came out listing the D1 football programs with the most arrests the past 5 years. OSU came out 26th. While not something to be proud of, 3 teams in the Big 10 had more arrests: Iowa, Purdue, and Michigan. Nebraska tied OSU for 26th, and PSU was 28th. Now if you want to say something about all those teams, that's fine, but OSU becomes the poster child for what many of you define as a rogue program.
There are outstanding high character guys at OSU. There's also good guys who make mistakes, and there also end up being some bad guys. I think at a program like OSU, it is very difficult not to have problems show up here and there. As long as it isn't a problem that is persuasive within the program*,I don't hold the coaches as responsible for a players mistake, as much as I do how they handle a situation once it occurs.
* I know that somewhere out there is a poster just dying to post that it is a persuasive problem at OSU. In 2015 a report came out listing the D1 football programs with the most arrests the past 5 years. OSU came out 26th. While not something to be proud of, 3 teams in the Big 10 had more arrests: Iowa, Purdue, and Michigan. Nebraska tied OSU for 26th, and PSU was 28th. Now if you want to say something about all those teams, that's fine, but OSU becomes the poster child for what many of you define as a rogue program.
It's also a conscious decision by NU coaches to prioritize players of high character, but I understand you not wanting to give that credit because it kind of undermines your entire argument.
What you say is reasonable. What is not is when the institution goes out of it's way to maintain eligibility of players, to sweep transgressions under the rug, and is complicit in failing to address the systemic problems all in the interests of winning on the field. This was not dOSU under Woody Hayes. When dOSU was winning and when his program was run cleanly. This was the program under Cooper, under Tressell - on Meyer, I am not sure and it does seem things have improved since the darkest days under Tressell, which is one reason you don't see me on the Buckeye board these days, even though my posting privileges have been returned to me (I think).
Well, gocats, if you look at the third sentence of the first paragraph of my post that you are responding to, I say "The coaches and administration at NU deserve credit..." So Your accusation that I don't want to give them credit, actually undermines your argument.
Again it is unfair to throw the all the players under the bus under any coach, because there were some outstanding character guys under Cooper, Tressel, and Meyer. Regarding Cooper, I think the combination of not really being aware of some of the historical culture under Woody and Earl Bruce, the transition of college football from a regional recruiting/following to a more national one while he was in Columbus, and later in his tenure the pressure to beat Michigan, win a bowl game, and win a National Championship, led to some poor decisions and loss of control. Not an excuse, just an understanding of what led to things beyond, "You guys are evil and suck".
For Tressel I see a problem that many leaders runs into. I think deep down they want what's right. If those under him follow what they say, then all will be alright. But the problems occur when that leader starts believing they're own hype. Tressel started thinking that "because of who I am, if I do something even if technically it's a violation, my intent isn't to do wrong so I'm above the fray." If you look at what got him fired, it wasn't that he was setting up players to get illegal benefits in order to increase the talent on the team. He lied about his knowledge of players getting free tattoos and selling their personal property. Still wrong doings, not the worse thing in the world, but Tressel's culpability is certainly there- and his firing was appropriate.
Ecat's idea of a compliment is to kick you in the nuts and then tell you that you have nice red nuts.
Shakes, if you don't support Pro teams then we can take that off the table. Regarding the entertainment industry, it's not just the actors but others involved in the industry. I do agree that arrests or just publicized bad decisions by those in the industry are a minority, but still probably higher than the general population. Similar to what we see with athletes, including those at OSU.
Umm, tell me who the producers and executives that are disproportionately hiring criminals/criminal types due to superior talent because it'll help them win (Oscars?) and make them lots of money. For some reason, I don't think Hollywood execs are hiring key grips, security guards... with drug and theft problem.
Now let's go to your specific point with Meyer at Florida. He didn't have similar problems at Bowling Green or Utah, so it doesn't seem to be an issue of Meyer as it did the combination of Meyer and the program he was at. Looking at the situations at Florida, I would add that there seems to be a culture of problems for football players at the major programs within the state. If it was just with the Gators, then I would be more inclined to fully blame Meyer. But we've seen similar issues at FSU and Miami with different coaches. So there exists within that geography a different culture than what you would see for sure at NU, but to some extent more severe than at OSU as well.
The sign of a leader isn't what he does when things are easy, it is what he does when times. Is there a culture of gangs and drugs that is present in Florida that isn't present in Utah? You betcha. Does that Meyer a pass at Florida? Hell no. When players arrive on campus, you let it be known that you have a 0 tolerance for guns, drugs, violence, and gangs. If the players don't like it, they can leave. Then you don't recruit players in gangs. I'd even let it be known through the media. I'd say something to the effect that "There's a gang and drug problem in the state of Florida. As head football coach of the flagship University in this state, I'm in a position to do something about that. If you're a young high school, grade school student that dreams of putting on Florida blue and orange, do not join a gang, do not do drugs and do not get arrested. If you do, you've forfeited any chance you have to play for the gators." How many kids are going to think twice about getting in crime. Instead, Meyer recruits guys like Aaron Hernandex.
If we look specifically at Meyer's involvement in Gainsville, there are absolute documented cases of problems. Meyer has publicly said he made mistakes, if he could have changed some things he would have, and that the stress that developed because of the pressure to win along with the problems within the program was among the things that effected his health and led to his retirement. That's about as honest of an accounting as you can have.
Well, that's good. Meyer knows he's an ass that only cared about winning.
And since he's been at OSU, the punishments he has given players have been generally greater than what either the school or NCAA rules require or precedents dictate. Players still make mistakes, Meyer will still make mistakes, but how he has evolved has been to the positive.
I don't want players to be punished for making mistakes. I want players to not make mistakes in the first place. Fitz has program where players don't get arrested, aren't doing drugs (rare exception), don't have guns, and don't hit women. I don't want the excuse that it's because Fitz recruits good kids. Wanna know why I don't hit women? It's because my dad taught me to never hit a woman, and if I ever did, I would get the whoopin of my life (I've later learned that beating women is bad and developed morality that goes beyond fear of punishment). Coaches are acting en loco parentis. If you recruit a "bad kid," you better watch his ass, give him ground rules, and make sure that the player is so scared of the punishment, that he'll never commit the crime. Would you rather walk into Meyer's office or Fitz's office to tell him you were out at a club and a girl didn't want to give it up so you punched her... and it was caught on tape?
Ok Shakes, I'll respond as a matter of respect, but I'm not holding my breath that anything I say can minimize your anger and hate. Regarding the entertainment industry, I was hardly talking about key grips and security guards. If you would like I could provide a list of A Level stars who despite getting arrested, have used drugs, been drunk in public, hit women, and similar acts are still making very healthy livings and in some cases winning awards. Just to name a few, Roman Polanski won Oscars while not being able to step foot in the US because he would be arrested for sexual assault on a 13 year old, Charlie Sheen was the highest paid actor on TV while taking large quantities of cocaine and large quantities of prostitutes, Robert Downey Jr. was addicted to Coke and heroin, Mark Walberg was arrested for assault, and Tim (Allen) the Toolman Taylor was in prison for drug trafficking. Bill Cosby? The list goes on... And we haven't even touched Rock and Rap stars.
Recruiting gang members? in the real world, coaches don't go looking for gang members or drug addicts to add to their program. They usually aren't very good football players, and believe it or not, coaches don't really want those guys on their team. Regarding Hernandez, yes he had red flags but he was never charged with anything coming out of highschool. In retrospect Meyer may have been better off not taking him, but the same could have been said about Michigan and Notre Dame which also offered a scholarship to their schools. If Hernandez decided to go to Ann Arbor or South Bend, they would have taken him.
Let's see. "Meyer's an ass that only cares about winning." Well, I know he cares about winning- he's pretty good at that. He cares about his family, as being more involved with them was a big change when he went back into coaching. As far as being an ass... I don't personally know him like you do so it wouldn't be fair for me to make that assessment. Although from your post, Meyer admitting that he has made mistakes and strives to do better seems to be a major part of you determining that he's an ass. I wish more people were similarly ass-ish.
Congratulations on your dad teaching you to never hit women. Good dad's do that. You know who doesn't tend to get into trouble at OSU? Middle and upper class kids, from good families, with good role models, from good schools and safe neighborhoods. Although still a minority within the team, the kids who do tend to get into trouble are usually from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, growing up in neighborhoods full of violence and drugs, no strong role models or fathers, and mothers who are either in trouble themselves, or working 2-3 jobs to pay the bills. And the funny thing is when these kids are recruited, neither they, their mother, their teachers or their coaches focus on the bad things the kids do. They usually mention the good things and the potential for the kids because they know that the kids best chance of doing something and getting away from trouble is to get a scholarship. But I don't want to bog down the discussion of how bad some kids are by talking about some of the actual reasons they do what they do.
I like the way you reference Carlos Hyde in your punching the girl scenario. Based on the video on what actually happened, no charges were filed because of what actually happened. As to your question of whom I would rather go see in their office if I was Hyde? Well, the three game suspension Hyde received from Meyer was greater than what either the school, conference, or NCAA required. Hyde came back, stayed out of trouble, and is now earning a nice living in the NFL where he has the opportunity to take care of himself and his family. Based on what you are suggesting Fitz would do, Hyde would have been thrown onto the street despite the lack of charges; if he was ever given the opportunity to go to college in the first place. So we will agree on this: Yes if I was Carlos Hyde I would have preferred to be in Meyer's office based in your proposed scenario.
I think I responded to most of your statements.
Recruiting gang members? in the real world, coaches don't go looking for gang members or drug addicts to add to their program. They usually aren't very good football players, and believe it or not, coaches don't really want those guys on their team. Regarding Hernandez, yes he had red flags but he was never charged with anything coming out of highschool. In retrospect Meyer may have been better off not taking him, but the same could have been said about Michigan and Notre Dame which also offered a scholarship to their schools. If Hernandez decided to go to Ann Arbor or South Bend, they would have taken him.
Let's see. "Meyer's an ass that only cares about winning." Well, I know he cares about winning- he's pretty good at that. He cares about his family, as being more involved with them was a big change when he went back into coaching. As far as being an ass... I don't personally know him like you do so it wouldn't be fair for me to make that assessment. Although from your post, Meyer admitting that he has made mistakes and strives to do better seems to be a major part of you determining that he's an ass. I wish more people were similarly ass-ish.
Congratulations on your dad teaching you to never hit women. Good dad's do that. You know who doesn't tend to get into trouble at OSU? Middle and upper class kids, from good families, with good role models, from good schools and safe neighborhoods. Although still a minority within the team, the kids who do tend to get into trouble are usually from lower socioeconomic backgrounds, growing up in neighborhoods full of violence and drugs, no strong role models or fathers, and mothers who are either in trouble themselves, or working 2-3 jobs to pay the bills. And the funny thing is when these kids are recruited, neither they, their mother, their teachers or their coaches focus on the bad things the kids do. They usually mention the good things and the potential for the kids because they know that the kids best chance of doing something and getting away from trouble is to get a scholarship. But I don't want to bog down the discussion of how bad some kids are by talking about some of the actual reasons they do what they do.
I like the way you reference Carlos Hyde in your punching the girl scenario. Based on the video on what actually happened, no charges were filed because of what actually happened. As to your question of whom I would rather go see in their office if I was Hyde? Well, the three game suspension Hyde received from Meyer was greater than what either the school, conference, or NCAA required. Hyde came back, stayed out of trouble, and is now earning a nice living in the NFL where he has the opportunity to take care of himself and his family. Based on what you are suggesting Fitz would do, Hyde would have been thrown onto the street despite the lack of charges; if he was ever given the opportunity to go to college in the first place. So we will agree on this: Yes if I was Carlos Hyde I would have preferred to be in Meyer's office based in your proposed scenario.
I think I responded to most of your statements.
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