Woody didn't choke anybody. He punched a player who intercepted a pass and went out of bounds on the OSU sidelines. Just wanted to bring some truth to the story here before it becomes gospel to some people's minds.
Pugh: Northwestern "has everything Ohio State has, plus more"
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Woody didn't choke anybody. He punched a player who intercepted a pass and went out of bounds on the OSU sidelines. Just wanted to bring some truth to the story here before it becomes gospel to some people's minds.
Actually I have, numerous times. In regards to the "overwhelming" documented incidences in which you refer:
-I said that while it makes news because of the interest that anything OSU Football produces, there will always be more media coverage in the media than when similar things happen at most other programs.
-The incidences represent a minority of the players and administration at OSU.
-There are players who go to OSU with more interest in playing football than school, but that doesn't change the fact that most players take school seriously, that some players who don't start out being serious like a Cardale Jones' learn the value of an education while they are there.
-Because of the academic requirements at an institution like NU, the Wildcats top to bottom will have a more mature and responsible group of football players.
-That your list of OSU players who got into trouble include those who had charges dropped, misdemeanor violations, usually involved players early in their collegiate careers, tends to be made up mostly of players from lower socioeconomic environments where violence, drug and alcohol use is more prevalent, and entitlement at an early age and the lack of strong male role models and leadership is lacking.
- Many of the players you site as examples where either suspended or kicked off the team. An appropriate response given their violations.
-Tressel was one of those guys that did a lot of good, but he also fell into the trap of being a guy who believes too much in what they believed in what their "good" reputation was that they started to justify their wrong doings. It was appropriate that he got fired.
- If the hate is solely based on OSU player violations and crimes, and academics, keep in mind that in a report showing the arrests among college football programs the last 5 years., OSU came in 26th. While not something to be proud of; Iowa, Michigan, and Pudue ranked worse. Nebraska tired OSU, and PSU came in 28th. In terms of academics, OSU had graduation and APR rates that was better than 75% of D1 football programs and only followed NU and PSU in the conference. Except for Shakes who admits that he hates everyone, why isn't there the same vitriol with these programs? I think winning has something to do with it, and that's perfectly fine. Just be honest.
Sure, with the same bias free jury that a black man received in Mississippi in 1950.
Woody got fired like he should have been. Spence got kicked off the team. I don't make excuses for OSU, just bringing reason to the table.
I don't have a problem with you or anyone else on this board hating big time football. I just say you take all that hate and put the blame solely on OSU (I don't include you on that Shakes because as you disclosed, you have a drinking problem and hate everybody). The solution is either except the challanges of the environment and do the best you can, change what you do to be more competitive in that environment, or fight to get out of the conference and the NCAA division. I would suggest joining the Ivy League where academics are all top notch, and because no scholarships are offered, it very much is academics first.
Only in Ohio or perhaps SEC country would the jury even have to deliberate. The evidence is incontrovertible, there is no need for the jury to retire.
Therein lies the rub. You say the cheating, the exploitation of the student athlete, the fraud - it's all a part of big time college football. And those who refuse to sell their souls to win games should get the eff out of Division I. We say, what you are doing is wrong, and has no business being a part of college football. What you and the SEC schools are doing should be checked, changed, and you should be held accountable for your violations. And that the rest of us who play the game the way it's supposed to be played, shouldn't be the ones to get out. We also refuse to accept that such egregious behaviors are necessary to win on the field, and we will prove it, though it is harder, we will get to the top of the mountain and when we do, we will show you how wrong you are. Continue to cheat if you must, we will prevail in the end. That's the difference between dOSU and NU - right there.
Give it a rest, ECat. Your obsession with OSU is incessantly chronicled around here. I am not sure you are altering anyone's opinions at this point.
I loved the SNL skit about Woody Hayes. I think he was played by Belushi. I think he clocked his wife, played by Gilda Radner, after she beat him at checkers.
Very little of what I said is what you are saying I said. I never ever said that fraud, cheating, and exploitation are part of big time football. As if some sort of requisite or preference. I will say that success in big time anything requires pushing to the limit of one sort or another. And if you surpass that limit then yes, you are accountable to penalties. The irony ECat is that for someone who espouses the truth about things, you can't handle the truth.
There's nothing wrong with being passionate about your team, especially college teams. That's what makes it fun. But some peoples egos and self worth is so tied into their association with a team, that they have to have certain over the top obsessions and bias, or their selfworth goes down the drain.
It's because of my and Ecat's ego that we dislike Ohio State and (at least more so for me) Urban Meyer? It's not that we see a coach that allowed, thieves, a murderer, women beaters, cheaters, and drug abusers and a university that embraces them?
Also, I've only drank 3 out the last 9 days... you proud of me? #cuttingback
Shakes, all kidding aside, I hope that you are doing (or not doing) whatever makes you healthy. Regarding the ego question, yes- ECat hates OSU because of his ego. As I continuously say, if his issue is crime by players and academic achievements, why does he hate the Buckeyes more than other programs both nationally and the conference which have a worse record in those areas. My thought is that because those other schools haven't won as much as OSU. And as far as the latter reason, that's a legitimate argument.
I give ECat the same question as I did you. Does he hold professional sports, those in the TV, movie,and music industry to the same standard? Shakes gets an out in that last question because he doesn't follow pro sports, listen to music, watch tv or movies. He just has a lot of hate to go around, which changes the parameters of the argument.
I give ECat the same question as I did you. Does he hold professional sports, those in the TV, movie,and music industry to the same standard? Shakes gets an out in that last question because he doesn't follow pro sports, listen to music, watch tv or movies. He just has a lot of hate to go around, which changes the parameters of the argument.
This thread reminds me of another early Belushi skit about the unwanted guest who never leaves.
It's called the premium board pawildcat. You can always go there. As far as when I visit, I'm always complimentary to the Wildcat program. And I don't call any posters out unless they call me out first.
But I agree that this thread has gotten out of hand from the OP, so I'll let the other guys get the last word and tell me what a horrible OSU and I as a fan am.
I'll close by what I said way back in post #5 of this thread, "... I'm happy for the kid who found what he wanted in a program at NU. He should be a good one for you guys."
Thanks Klemman, I'm fantastic. I hope you and your family is doing well too.
I don't think ECat has an ego. We all have a schtick on the board. ECat is the OSU hater. I think kickers belong in a jail cell. Turk is convinced the world is flat. Gladeskat thinks that star ratings and on the field performance are negatively correlated (the less stars the better the player). Willycat enjoys complaining about things....actually that's his real life persona. It's all based in some experience though. ECat hates the SEC, their lack of academics, and criminal players. He just thinks OSU belongs with them instead of the Big Ten. Since we play an SEC team maybe every 2-3 years, he talks about OSU more.... of course, now we're going to play OSU every 2-3 years. It just comes up more. But let's ask him:
Hey ECat, what do you think about Alabama, LSU, and Florida? And Florida State and USC just to get the rest of the country in play?
I would speak to those who would listen. Indeed, the Buckeyes are generally lost sheep and will never turn to the light. But, I do it not for them. Based on previous feedback my chronicles have opened the eyes of many who were unaware of what happens in Columbus. There are those who have said I do the community a service by telling the story of what happens, so that we do not forget and we can understand and appreciate what makes Northwestern so special.
If you are tired of the preaching, there is always the ignore button. But, I will continue to speak the truth.
Shakes - you are largely spot on.
The SEC is a cesspool. We needn't dispute that. The difference is that dOSU is our vile cousin whose actions suggests it belongs more with those cheaters than in a hallowed academically oriented association like the BIG. The sad thing is that dOSU is actually a respected academic institution unlike most of the SEC, and it fails to live up to these credentials with regards to the way it runs it's football program. Rather than educate, it exploits. It plays by SEC rules.
I speak about dOSU, because they are in our league. It's painful to see such corruption so close. The SEC? They are the riff raff down the street, but dOSU is our embarrassing relative. The uncle who should be in jail.
USC does not get my dander up. It is a great school as well, and while they cheat, I don't see any evidence of academic fraud. I'm less sensitive to the boosters and such, more disdainful when kids are treated like field hands and thrown to the curb when they don't pan out to free up that extra scholarship. No effort at all to improve that kid's life, to ensure that he gets an education, much less think about the next 40 years.
FSU? The Criminoles? No need to go there.
I am an NU and OSU grad. Two schools with fundamentally different purposes, but both great at what they do. Indeed, OSU has come a long way as a University and research center. Its admissions standards have escalated dramatically. Only very bright general admission students are now being admitted. From my perspective here in Ohio, OSU football has come a long way as well. When you look at their current regime in the context of a first rate public university (as opposed to a world class private university) , where football can and should be competing for national championships ( vs. a place like NU which can and should be competing for 10 win seasons and more when the stars align) I think Meyer has achieved a good balance between the student and athletic sides of the OSU mission. Personally, I find what Stanford and ND have done institutionally to pursue football success to be far more disgusting than anything at OSU. Both are world class private universities. But ND will admit anybody and then give them a fraudulent degree if they stick around long enough. Seriously. That's why they have had so many academic cheating scandals and transfers. There is virtually no consideration given to whether the player is a good fit for an elite academic school. And we all know what Stanford did under Harbaugh, and continues to do since he left. Stringing along "committed" players till they find someone better is institutionally disgraceful. I see no evidence of OSU recruiting players who have no business being at a fine public university, and certainly no evidence of the Harbaugh approach to hanging kids and their families out to try. So let's be honest. OSU has come a long way by the standards that are important to many NU fans. It has terrific educational programs with many bright students. And it is competing for national championships without the institutional abuses of the past that continue elsewhere around the country ... not just in the SEC.
BTW ... one of the happiest days of my life was when I witnessed NU beat OSU in Evanston in 2004. I did not think I would see that in my lifetime. But I did. And it was done without smoke or mirrors. NU just beat them down on both sides of the LOS. I would rather beat OSU than anybody else in college football. Right there with Alabama. But only because they are the standard by which all of the rest of us are measured.
GOUNUII
GOUNUII
Yes, let's be honest. dOSU is a great academic institution. And that's the point. Such a great academic institution shouldn't act like the SEC, and it pains me that a school with whom we are associated has had a long history of academic fraud and scholar athlete exploitation. Meyer's comment and Cardale's earlier comment ("We ain't here to play school.") do not reflect well, and right there is an example of someone who has no business being at a fine public university. Has dOSU come a long way since the Cooper and Tressell days, when kids majored in football, took joke classes for credit, got to play in bowl games with 0.00 GPAs, got make up oral exams for midterms that they fled, had tutors write their papers and take their exams for them? Maybe. I certainly admit that under Meyer, I have less clear evidence (except Jones saying what he said) that the travesties of the prior regimes have continued unabated. But, not much evidence to the contrary either. Do I think Meyer is some beacon of integrity that has cleaned up dOSU? Hardly. So, color me a skeptic.
And what Harbaugh and the SEC schools and others may do, does not let dOSU off the hook for it's own transgressions.
