What your side of this debate consistently ignore is the losing nature of the program. That prior to Gagg’s statement - this program had four consecutive crap seasons and everybody knew ccc was on a hot seat. So the added distraction of the ccc was minuscule at best. And ccc did bring in some guys after our great and unexpected season so there is no evidence of a factual nature to support the argument.
Should Gragg be put on an ultimatum?
- Thread starter Purple Pile Driver
- Start date
He was already on the hot seat - as judged by anyone who has ever been in any way involved in college basketball.
After NU made the Tourney and the coaching uncertainty became certain. I don’t get your point. I just was stating that Langborg was not under recruited as a transfer. He was in fact a big get.
Read my post again. The losing was not ignored lol. You seem to continually ignore parts of my posts and lump me in with the rest of what you read. Please read my final paragraph in the post you responded to.
Ok - fair. I think that your side is exaggerating the impact of the Gagg statement and severely understating the state of the program’s impact upon recruiting prior to the Gagg statement.
The fact that ccc picked up lang suggests neither condition had a chilling impact upon recruiting.
So I contend, based on the the absence of decommits or losses of recruits hot for NU prior to the Gagg statement, followed by the transfer additions and recruits following last year’s success.
Now, gordie has us wandering back into whether ccc was the GOAT of basketball coaching prior to last year’s success too…
I was pointing out that the premise — that NU recruiting was harmed by the ‘ultimatum’ because NU wasn’t being considered by highly rated high school players — is flawed.
It’s fine, even possibly good, that this year’s freshmen were lightly-recruited. There is no correlation — maybe a negative correlation — between having a high rating or high school recruiting interest and success at NU.
I’d prefer a Martinelli and a Barnhizer to a Beran and a Kopp.
Also, this thread is dumb.
I want PPD to publish AN OPEN LETTER.
It is somewhat remarkable that the only 4-star recruit under Collins that's ever really lived up to his billing was Vic Law. Nance, Kopp, Falzon, Beran, Simmons all underperformed their rankings, some more significantly than others. Meanwhile the unheralded guys like Pardon, Boo, BMac, Lindsey, Skelly, Nicholson, Martinelli, Audige, Young have all well outplayed their expectations relative to recruiting rank.
And my whole argument was that these people were all wrong in that assessment. Just because the majority think something is right does not make it unprovably wrong.
Langborg’s recruiting is for one year where he knew Collins would be the coach. Gragg’s ultimatum is a non-issue…
So let me get this straight, we are better off with recruiting lower ranked players and might as well avoid those higher rated guys since it doesn’t matter.
After you laid this out, I guess it just shows what a great staff we have at either development or identifying diamonds in the rough. Maybe both. You can put the ENTIRE Wildcat Message board on that unsigned open letter. Cool?
Of course Gragg has zero accountability or repercussions or any of his actions. That is well established since he got here. So in that respect having any expectation for an “ultimatum” or consequences is as ludicrous as 320 thinks.
However, if just as silly for people to think the NU administration doesn’t negatively impact the ability of CCC or Braun to do their job. I make no apologies for being a CCC fan. I think he is an exceptional HC. This opinion seems to be shared by most basketball pundits. The point of the thread was to open up for discussion whether this was one area where Gragg yet again did our HC no favors.
The expected responses followed. Lowry is the reason we turned it around. Our best players were lightly recruited so it doesn’t matter if the HC is on the hot seat. We should have been playing Mullins and Nick and Big Matt long before they got in the rotation. I know this is blasphemy to some, but just maybe CCC and team do a great job of developing a cohesive team despite the knuckleheads in the administration? Many have begrudgingly acknowledged this, but it usually has some caveat that cites some significant philosophical change that rarely Is supported by facts. Must be a reason. Watch the tone of this board next season when we don’t have number 0!
However, if just as silly for people to think the NU administration doesn’t negatively impact the ability of CCC or Braun to do their job. I make no apologies for being a CCC fan. I think he is an exceptional HC. This opinion seems to be shared by most basketball pundits. The point of the thread was to open up for discussion whether this was one area where Gragg yet again did our HC no favors.
The expected responses followed. Lowry is the reason we turned it around. Our best players were lightly recruited so it doesn’t matter if the HC is on the hot seat. We should have been playing Mullins and Nick and Big Matt long before they got in the rotation. I know this is blasphemy to some, but just maybe CCC and team do a great job of developing a cohesive team despite the knuckleheads in the administration? Many have begrudgingly acknowledged this, but it usually has some caveat that cites some significant philosophical change that rarely Is supported by facts. Must be a reason. Watch the tone of this board next season when we don’t have number 0!
Gordie, in the future, please do not deliberately and grossly misrepresent things I have stated clearly.
Especially when I'm not in the discussion.
It is unacceptable behavior.
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This is a little overdramatic here. I deleted a bunch of back and forth petty nonsense between you and SDakaGordie. What is the egregious and outrageous lie that needs to be deleted? That you think academics is not a disadvantage?
I deleted my initial response, assuming you'd read it.
It is particularly offensive when someone grossly mis-characterizes what you have written earlier, when you aren't even in the discussion, in an underhanded attempt to make you look foolish. I find that highly unethical.
PWB - you are one of the most prolific writers on this blog. I don’t tend to nor want to make things up out of thin air, and I certainly don’t want to grossly mischaracterize your or anyone’s view. (I also don’t go back to archives as a rule to check - it’s just not important enough to even try). So, I really have to question how I could have mischaracterized you so grossly.
I was and still am quite sure you have often stated how we should utilize the NU academics to our recruiting advantage. Naturally, in isolation, this does not sound like a disadvantage (i.e., why not play up a good thing)? But I interpret what you say as indicating selling our academics is one of the main keys to our recruiting. Many on the board and I and others would think that high-level basketball players don’t value the academics enough to make this an advantage. Most people want us to lower the academic standards to compete better. We are disadvantaged by requiring higher academic standards, not advantaged.
Therefore, while I don’t want to cause you angst and do apologize and agree I should have just left you out of this, I stand by what I have said about your take; as always, I am open to your responses.
Why bother to field a team of non students? It sounds like you would advocate scholarships and NIL for players that just don't want to 'come to play school'. I don't get that
Apparently there aren’t any kids smart enough to value Ivy level education in case they don’t make the league 🤷♂️
I didn’t advocate anything as yet. I like how we value academics, but I think we can loosen things a bit more to gain more competitiveness.
I appreciate the comment. Very much, actually. But you should understand what I have written if you are going to assign a goofy opinion to me.
My opinion is (and always has been) that some, if not most, people are unnecessarily defeatist about the impact of NU's academic requirements on the coach's ability to recruit players.
When you can't even reach out to 90 guys in the Top 100, thats obviously a big disadvantage in recruiting those top players - but the impact of that disadvantage is not as bad at Northwestern as people want to believe. For other schools, lets say Illinois, if the basketball recruits had to pass something remotely close to admissions standards, that program would be a disaster. Its the same for most universities, except the ones that don't really have admissions standards.
When you focus your recruiting on the "right type of player" Northwestern has some advantages over the vast majority of Power 6 universities. Academic prestige combines nicely with playing college basketball vs top competition. So there are some quality recruits who will put NU high on their list. These guys aren't delusional. They don't believe that they are the next Steph Curry. They don't have family members and recruiting websites telling them that they are certain NBA first-rounders. They are team-oriented, motivated, talented players who understand the value of a Northwestern diploma.
If you can recruit and develop those players, you can compete at a high level.
I think Chris Collins has nearly proven me right, although NIL and the transfer rules continue to muddy the waters going forward. The big test will be when Buie moves on, although he serves as one strong example of "the right kind of player" along with Barnhizer, Nicholson, Martinelli, Ty Berry, Luke Hunger, Ryan Young, Robbie Beran, Chase Audige and hopefully more to come.
This year's team looked capable of making a Sweet 16 appearance before Ty Berry's injury. People just have to put aside these pipe dreams of a national championship. Northwestern is an academic institution first. That is really all that matters. As long as we are competitive in basketball and football, thats good enough for me. I would hate to see NU undermine its academic status by pursuing students who can't handle the classwork and aren't likely to graduate.
