Shouldn’t we be hearing about transfers fairly soon?

[Katatonic]

I understood "Tap 2.0" to mean three point threat....and that's about it.

Which is why I noted that it wasn't exactly a good analogy as Falzon's production shooting beyond the arc wasn't close to that of Tap.

Falzon started over Tap because he could do more on the floor....the team could play man with Falzon on the floor....it had to play zone with Tap on the floor

Well, wouldn't exactly say that the man-D was operating at peak efficiency w/ Falzon.

Also, Tap was hampered by foot ailments much of his career.

There were fewer games Falzon was able to play this year than games he could not. His injuries are chronic and more significant than most of the players you described. The debilitating nature of his injuries are similar to those of Jershon Cobb....a player prior to Cobb's last year who Collins suggested was a pro prospect. Falzon's NU bball career was wrecked by injury.

Well, Falzon was supposedly healthy (as much as he was going to be) for a period of time but saw limited minutes as the 2 frosh were ahead of him on the depth chart (which is why CC tried to keep Falzon's spirits up by telling him to keep ready and that he'll get his chance).

That chance came in IU on 1/22 (when Nance wasn't available due to mono), where Falzon went off for 21 points.

Falzon's next most productive game was his last one on 3/13 - scoring 11 pts against UI.

OK, let's say that Falzon wasn't as productive btwn those 2 games due to his chronic injuries, but still, he should have a few games of greater production than he did have.

Cobb's issues flared about again his last season and while he saw limited time, he still managed to shoot 40.4% from the field and 36.4% from 3 pt range and Cobb wasn't exactly a 3 pt specialist.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

The transfer issue is one that has dogged NU coaches for a long time. I’ll go back to the early 90’s when NU was looking to land Matt Maloney upon his transfer from Vanderbilt. Kid had good grades in high school and was coming from Vandy. I don’t remember the specific issue, but Admissions would not budge on their decision to deny acceptance. The situation was only compounded when Maloney ended up transferring to Penn where he had a stellar career which led to a seven year stint in the NBA. I believe the Maloney incident was another key factor in Bill Foster’s ultimate demise. Hopefully history will not repeat itself.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I'll tell you what's going to happen.

Collins will win again. Maybe two consecutive years to the NCAA. Maybe even a nice run.

And then he'll jump to another gig.

You can't put up with competing against others with a different set of rules indefinitely.

He'll dress it up, but he'll jump.

Four years.

I hope this is incorrect as I continue to be in the camp of supporting CCC as the best reasonable hope to turn NU into a consistent winner. He drives me nuts on his short leash for some, but all in all, I like the man.

Ultimately, if the admission process puts us at such a competitive disadvantage compared to the rest of the league, then I could see your scenario play out. I don’t have a real feel for how bad it is, but no one can continue to fight a war with a pea shooter compared to a bazooka. Morty is at enough games to know that.

 

[Medill90]

I hope this is incorrect as I continue to be in the camp of supporting CCC as the best reasonable hope to turn NU into a consistent winner. He drives me nuts on his short leash for some, but all in all, I like the man.

Ultimately, if the admission process puts us at such a competitive disadvantage compared to the rest of the league, then I could see your scenario play out. I don’t have a real feel for how bad it is, but no one can continue to fight a war with a pea shooter compared to a bazooka. Morty is at enough games to know that.

I hope it's incorrect as well.

I just don't think that what admissions is doing relative to the basketball team benefits academics. I don't believe they are preserving academic integrity at all and socially and culturally they signal something worse.

It's not a small gap between what MSU, Illinois and Iowa let in....and what NU allows.

Collins is not asking for what those other coaches rely on as automatic.

 

[willycat]

I'll tell you what's going to happen.

Collins will win again. Maybe two consecutive years to the NCAA. Maybe even a nice run.

And then he'll jump to another gig.

You can't put up with competing against others with a different set of rules indefinitely.

He'll dress it up, but he'll jump.

Four years.

Exactly what I have been thinking and it will be much harder for NU to bring in a seasoned well regarded coach to replace him.

 

[willycat]

Nice crystal ball. But even if your scenario plays out and he does jump, it won't matter because we will be in a far better place than where we were and will have our pick of coaches from which to choose, imo,

Still would bet against this, though... he would get a ton of money to stay if he was in consecutive NCAAs and would probably only want to leave us for Duke, which is likely going in another direction with any successor to Coach K.

Thinking that your crystal ball is a bit tarnished. If Collins leaves and the main reason is because Admissions denying Nu the chance to compete, then no top of the line coach will want the job.

 

[Medill90]

I think both Mike and Willy are correct....Collins has raised recruiting to unprecedented levels....but the story will get out and it will be a destination for coaches who need to get to point B before they get to point A.

Because of Collins' reputation and pedigree the NU narrative will shift from "a difficult place to win because of academics" to "impossible place to win."

Sorry to be a downer, just a sense I'm getting from the program/school.

 

[docrugby1]

Admissions already makes a lot of leeway for athletes, so the question is how much lower should the standard be set?

A guy like Greer with a 1310 SAT, while decent, is well below the bottom 25 percentile of 1430 for NU. The bottom 25 percentile for ACT is 33 composite. I'm guessing we already have guys with less stellar academic credentials than Greer, but where do you want to draw the line?

The Final Four

 

[EagerFan]

I'll tell you what's going to happen.

Collins will win again. Maybe two consecutive years to the NCAA. Maybe even a nice run.

And then he'll jump to another gig.

You can't put up with competing against others with a different set of rules indefinitely.

He'll dress it up, but he'll jump.

Four years.

I don’t buy this. I’m open to being wrong, but your description doesn’t seem to fit him. Setting aside the challenge of a pair of tourney bids, I see Collins as wanting to establish his own legacy and be a long term home hero at NU.

What seems more likely is he will continue to have limited success that doesn’t meet the unreasonable expectations of the alumni in part because he is hampered in the recruiting process, and be let go at the end of his contract to go find success somewhere else.

I believe if he does get NU into the tourney twice more in this remaining contract, he’ll settle in for the long haul.

 

[Medill90]

I don’t buy this. I’m open to being wrong, but your description doesn’t seem to fit him. Setting aside the challenge of a pair of tourney bids, I see Collins as wanting to establish his own legacy and be a long term home hero at NU.

What seems more likely is he will continue to have limited success that doesn’t meet the unreasonable expectations of the alumni in part because he is hampered in the recruiting process, and be let go at the end of his contract to go find success somewhere else.

I believe if he does get NU into the tourney twice more in this remaining contract, he’ll settle in for the long haul.

I'd pay for you to be right.

 

[Sec.112]

I'll tell you what's going to happen.

Collins will win again. Maybe two consecutive years to the NCAA. Maybe even a nice run.

And then he'll jump to another gig.

You can't put up with competing against others with a different set of rules indefinitely.

He'll dress it up, but he'll jump.

Four years.

... I don't believe they are preserving academic integrity at all and socially and culturally they signal something worse.

It's not a small gap between what MSU, Illinois and Iowa let in....and what NU allows ...

Two good posts.

I think your direction is generally correct, except you may be leaving out one key minor aspect of the equation.

Let me try to make this short. I have no clue how old Collins' youngest kid is. (No need for someone to post it.) But if he/she is in that middle school range (he/she may be older ... I realy don't know), and IF Collins is winning (that's a big if today), NU might get another two or three years beyond Medill's four because CC doesn't want to uproot the family.

Also, your "thrown-in" about the large standards gap between NU and the rest of the B10 is something regularly ignored, but it's no small factor at all. It should be top-of-mind in every evaluation. No new arena or bright shiny practice facility can hide how difficult the academics make this gig. I'm pretty thankful anytime a coach with any reputation takes this job, stays and is dedicated to it - and that includes Carmody who I've said somewhat sacrificed the prime of his career attempting to straighten this mess out.

Personally, I think NU somewhat got lucky with Collins, and I'm not his biggest fan. With the lack of fan support, history and other many limits, I think NU is lucky any time it gets a coach with a strong big conference or tournament pedigree. I'm always concerned about an abrupt change because some faction at NU thinks the program is more than it is. I offer post-Weber Illini basketball as an example of the effect of one bad decision.

 

[freewillie07]

a kid rates a NU visit a 10 out of 10 and plays 1 year of college ball and takes college courses, but is not a good enough prospective student athlete for NU to admit.

That really is too bad. I don’t know what the answer is here, not a great look to have the men’s basketball team not have to play by the same rules as the rest of the Athletics Department, but also without some exceptions, NU is going to have a very tough time competing in the conference.

A happy medium is probably allowing Collins one exception per class. Not once every two or three years.

 

[NUCat320]

Anybody care to retell the legendary Tommy Amaker-Rick Taylor (I think) conversation?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

That really is too bad. I don’t know what the answer is here, not a great look to have the men’s basketball team not have to play by the same rules as the rest of the Athletics Department, but also without some exceptions, NU is going to have a very tough time competing in the conference.

A happy medium is probably allowing Collins one exception per class. Not once every two or three years.

We got 12 players on the team, give him an exception for anyone that meets NCAA requirements and can reasonably be expected to graduate.

 

[willycat]

Anybody care to retell the legendary Tommy Amaker-Rick Taylor (I think) conversation?

sadly, yes I do!

 

[mikewebb68]

For all this back and forth about the inability to recruit here with the academic restrictions, we're about to have two top-50 (maybe even two top-40) classes in a row....

 

[gocatsgo2003]

For all this back and forth about the inability to recruit here with the academic restrictions, we're about to have two top-50 (maybe even two top-40) classes in a row....

That is not a particularly high bar.

 

[mikewebb68]

That is not a particularly high bar.

It will be our best two consecutive years, by far, since he inception of the 247 composite. And only three teams will in the BIG will have had a better two-year recruiting stretch: OSU, Michigan State, and Maryland. I'll take 4th in the BIG the last two years every day of the week and twice on Sundays...

And the five-year trend is generally upward, so better years to come, no doubt...already off to a fantastic start for 2020!

 

[Katatonic]

I'm not as pessimistic about CC leaving. even if admissions doesn't budge.

CC loves being back in Chicago and loves raising his kids here.

He knew full well the (academic) challenges when he took the job.

Stated not too far into CC's tenure that didn't think he would leave NU even for Dook (not at first, at least), as CC wants to build his own program.

There are enough good players out there w/ the academics to get past admissions.

CC just has to convince more of them to come to Evanston instead of a traditional BB powerhouse.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I'm not as pessimistic about CC leaving. even if admissions doesn't budge.

CC loves being back in Chicago and loves raising his kids here.

He knew full well the (academic) challenges when he took the job.

Stated not too far into CC's tenure that didn't think he would leave NU even for Dook (not at first, at least), as CC wants to build his own program.

There are enough good players out there w/ the academics to get past admissions.

CC just has to convince more of them to come to Evanston instead of a traditional BB powerhouse.

When the pool is reduced by 60-70% as some people have suggested, it makes his recruiting pitch extremely difficult. Oh well, he can always boast of NU’s great tradition and fan support.

 

[Medill90]

To explain....the trigger for my negative post about Collins leaving....transfers and grad transfers have introduced an entirely new element to college basketball....the issue has peaked this year....to be competitive, a school has to be able to bring in transfers in a manner equal to its peers...it can represent twenty percent or more of a roster....if NU's admissions will not allow the team to compete in drawing transfers, it adds a level of difficulty to a job that is already more difficult than any other Big Ten team.

Pulling in top recruits out of high school does not fix this. Other teams pull in top recruits, they don't develop, and then they are able to pull in transfers. NU at a huge disadvantage.

 

[ricko654321]

The one team that has most of its players in the transfer portal is University of Missouri-Kansas City. 11 players are looking into transfering. I think most of us know the new head coach.

wait, seriously? they have 11 players in the transfer portal? seems a stretch to even have 11 returning players to begin with.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

When the pool is reduced by 60-70% as some people have suggested, it makes his recruiting pitch extremely difficult. Oh well, he can always boast of NU’s great tradition and fan support.

60-70% is on the low end in my experience.

 

[hdhntr1]

We got 12 players on the team, give him an exception for anyone that meets NCAA requirements and can reasonably be expected to graduate.

13

 

[hdhntr1]

That is not a particularly high bar.

For NU it sure is

 

[Medill90]

60-70% is on the low end in my experience.

Yeah. Illinois has about 40 offers out for '20....NU has 9 offers out. There are four prospects that each school has offered.

Probably fair to say that 80+% of the overall pool is eliminated for NU....and it's a guess that the percent of 4* players eliminated is north of 90%

 

[catstime16]

As an aside, how does a challenging academic school like Duke keep throwing
a blind eye at 75% of each incoming class going to school for 1 semester and being
fine with that? Am I just being "get off my lawn" complaining guy? If so, I apologize.

 

[hdhntr1]

As an aside, how does a challenging academic school like Duke keep throwing
a blind eye at 75% of each incoming class going to school for 1 semester and being
fine with that? Am I just being "get off my lawn" complaining guy? If so, I apologize.

They keep on looking at all those green things

 

[haywood jahblowme]

As an aside, how does a challenging academic school like Duke keep throwing
a blind eye at 75% of each incoming class going to school for 1 semester and being
fine with that? Am I just being "get off my lawn" complaining guy? If so, I apologize.

because Duke administration realizes that doing that for basketball does not devalue a duke degree?

and has it given duke an incredible advantage and free advertising to attract all students every March for the last 20 years?

 

[willycat]

because Duke administration realizes that doing that for basketball does not devalue a duke degree?

and has it given duke an incredible advantage and free advertising to attract all students every March for the last 20 years?

Exactly and doing so at NU was also not result in devaluing the NU degree.

 

[IdahoAlum]

Exactly and doing so at NU was also not result in devaluing the NU degree.

Nor does it mean much of anything. Hey, we're Duke! We won a bunch of basketball games with a few kids who stopped by a few months and played in our uniforms. Aren't we awesome!

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Nor does it mean much of anything. Hey, we're Duke! We won a bunch of basketball games with a few kids who stopped by a few months and played in our uniforms. Aren't we awesome!

There are numerous studies showing that applications increase with athletic success.

 

[IdahoAlum]

There are numerous studies showing that applications increase with athletic success.

So what. Northwestern turns away thousands of applicants a year. So we win some basketball games and turn away a few thousand more????

https://admissions.northwestern.edu/documents/northwestern-class-of-2022-facts-and-figures.pdf

 

[gocatsgo2003]

So what. Northwestern turns away thousands of applicants a year. So we win some basketball games and turn away a few thousand more????

https://admissions.northwestern.edu/documents/northwestern-class-of-2022-facts-and-figures.pdf

Yes.

 

[IdahoAlum]

Yes.

Well that’s certainly an admirable goal.

 

[No Chores]

Yes.

no

 

[gocatsgo2003]

no

The trade off is essentially 13 spots to incrementally improve the other 8,000-ish while also generating more revenue for the university.

Seems worth it.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Well that’s certainly an admirable goal.

I would take Duke's one and done's all day and Sunday.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

The trade off is essentially 13 spots to incrementally improve the other 8,000-ish while also generating more revenue for the university.

Seems worth it.

It amazes me that this is controversial.

 

[cometclear]

The trade off is essentially 13 spots to incrementally improve the other 8,000-ish while also generating more revenue for the university.

Seems worth it.

Precious few NCAA athletic teams generate big profits. NU generates about $14 million on men's basketball in revenue and spends about $8 million on the program. NU has an endowment of $11 billion. The modest profit from the men's basketball program isn't terribly significant. Rutgers actually loses money on its men's program and you see that more commonly at the mid and lower levels. This idea that college sports is this massive cash cow for colleges and universities is a misnomer.