So, will Boo or Chase or Beran or all of them stay?

[NUCat320]

I am certain that Boo and Beran have a COVID year left. I assume that Audige, who did sit out a year as a transfer, might have to petition for a fifth active year, but also that he’ll get it because that’s the way the NCAA has handled waivers.

Probably too early to think about it, but there’s no Iowa game to get psyched for.

I am reasonably certain that next year’s roster has six returning scholarship players plus the three commits; scholarships will be available.

This has been a fun season, the most fun since 16-17, which continues to shock me.


(This is Verhoeven’s fifth year of college basketball; he will not be back.)

 

[Styre]

I am certain that Boo and Beran have a COVID year left. I assume that Audige, who did sit out a year as a transfer, might have to petition for a fifth active year, but also that he’ll get it because that’s the way the NCAA has handled waivers.

Audige has the same COVID year as Buie and Beran and does not have to petition for it. The COVID year doesn't work like a redshirt. The easiest way to think about 2020-21 in terms of eligibility is to pretend that it never happened and jump straight from 2019-20 to 2021-22.

This is Audige's eligibility breakdown:

2018-19: Freshman
2019-20: DNP (transfer)
(2020-21 does not count)
2021-22: Sophomore
2022-23: Junior

So he has only used three seasons of eligibility and can play again in 2023-24 if he wants.

 

[GatoLouco]

I watched a bit of the Duke game @ Clemson. And heard "5th year, grad student Ryan Young, with one year left of eligibility". I know that's right, but these Covid eligibilities feel weird.

Driven by this, Antoine Davis, @ Detroit Mercy, has a near 100% chance of becoming the 2nd all time best scorer in college ball. A small change of being #1.

 

[Catdude]

If they don’t return and we don’t find some studs in the portal, next year will be absolutely brutal. So I think that makes this year an NCAA Tournament or bust year for Collins.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

We'll have Nicholson, Barnhizer, Berry, Roper, Hunger and Martinelli.

plus the freshmen.

I'd have to think Buie could return. Beran and Audige are already in grad school - at some point life beckons.

 

[Catdude]

We'll have Nicholson, Barnhizer, Berry, Roper, Hunger and Martinelli.

plus the freshmen.

I'd have to think Buie could return. Beran and Audige are already in grad school - at some point life beckons.

If that’s the roster, then we’re gonna average 40 points per game and not be even close to competitive in the conference.

 

[Deeringfish]

The question I have is if they stay how much will they improve relative to this year. I'm still hopeful that they might get into the Big Dance this year. Will they be better next year; more mature, more experience; or will they have peaked? If hey all come back and everyone is notch better, that could be a pretty strong team.

 

[ballerog711]

I could see Chase getting advise to come back for 1 more year and refine his game for the nba.

His shot needs to be more co sistant, improve his handle and become a lock down defender. Could be and end of the bench player and make so,e $$$.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

If that’s the roster, then we’re gonna average 40 points per game and not be even close to competitive in the conference.

There's zero chance that will be the roster next year. Zero.

 

[Rebel II]

If that’s the roster, then we’re gonna average 40 points per game and not be even close to competitive in the conference.

Not so fast. I don't think it's possible to shoot much worse than Boo and Audige. I hope they return for lots of reasons, but outside shooting could be much improved.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Buie was born in December 1999...
Beran was born in Feb 2000.
Audige was born in June 1999.
Ryan Young was born in Dec 1999.
Pete Nance was born in Feb 2000.

and...

Miller Kopp was born in Nov 1998.

its an old boys network.

 

[EvanstonCat]

I am certain that Boo and Beran have a COVID year left. I assume that Audige, who did sit out a year as a transfer, might have to petition for a fifth active year, but also that he’ll get it because that’s the way the NCAA has handled waivers.

Probably too early to think about it, but there’s no Iowa game to get psyched for.

I am reasonably certain that next year’s roster has six returning scholarship players plus the three commits; scholarships will be available.

This has been a fun season, the most fun since 16-17, which continues to shock me.


(This is Verhoeven’s fifth year of college basketball; he will not be back.)

They all have COVID eligbility left. Will they stay? I think it depends on how we end up. If we make a run and make the postseason, I think there's a decent chance that they run it back.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

They all have COVID eligbility left. Will they stay? I think it depends on how we end up. If we make a run and make the postseason, I think there's a decent chance that they run it back.

I think it would be better for the program's overall health if they left.

What 18 year old wants to sit on the bench and watch a bunch of 24 year old "non-NBA" guys play basketball?

 

[PURPLECAT88]

I think it would be better for the program's overall health if they left.

What 18 year old wants to sit on the bench and watch a bunch of 24 year old "non-NBA" guys play basketball?

Wisconsin regularly has "non-NBA" guys playing into their early 40s, and it hasn't seemed to hurt them.

 

[Deeringfish]

I think it would be better for the program's overall health if they left.

What 18 year old wants to sit on the bench and watch a bunch of 24 year old "non-NBA" guys play basketball?

I get what you are saying but let's just say NU gets to the Big Dance, has a decent showing and they return and do it again. The whole complexion of NU BB changes. Even if they got into the NIT and got to the final four and came back and got to the Big Dance it could make a difference. I guess it kind of depends on if you think Colins should go as soon as NU can afford it or if you think that if he can pull off two successful seasons in a row he deserves a second chance.
Personally, I like Collins and wonder if anyone can have real consistent success in BB given the academic challenges. If he could just get to the tournament half of the time it would be so different.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Virtually all of our players are not BIG ready as freshmen, so I think they are willing to wait their turn.

DeeringFish hits on another key point - is NU’s program better off if Collins (with some reasonable probability) takes us back to the Dance this / next year or we wait (likely 3-4 years) before someone maybe (with some unknown probability) takes us there? If college basketball sees Collins and NU as more than a one-trick pony, I think that changes perception of this program in a huge way, more so than just another coaching change. (While I don’t think going to the tournament 50% of the time is reasonable now, maybe it can be if this change in program perception occurs). I also believe that most coaches improve over time; Collins is not old and his best years are potentially (if retained) still ahead of him.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I get what you are saying but let's just say NU gets to the Big Dance, has a decent showing and they return and do it again. The whole complexion of NU BB changes. Even if they got into the NIT and got to the final four and came back and got to the Big Dance it could make a difference. I guess it kind of depends on if you think Colins should go as soon as NU can afford it or if you think that if he can pull off two successful seasons in a row he deserves a second chance.
Personally, I like Collins and wonder if anyone can have real consistent success in BB given the academic challenges. If he could just get to the tournament half of the time it would be so different.

I don't want to make it a discussion about Chris Collins.
Of course he would prefer that Buie, Audige and Beran all came back and played for their college at age 24.
It would be the last year of his contract and he views those guys as his 3 best players.

But for the health of the program, its probably time to pass the torch. Barnhizer, Roper, Berry, Hunger, Nicholson and perhaps Martinelli are all capable of being "average or better" Big Ten starters when the old guys are gone. Get a good transfer and get some production from a freshman or two. Move forward.

 

[ballerog711]

Lowry and the new assistants had some input to the 2023s coming in,

Maybe Lowry has 1 or 2 he knows works in his system.

Wouldn't mind seeing one of the three stay

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I have no idea how it’s unhealthy for a program to not have the best talent they can available to them. If two of the better guards in the conference want to play for my team I’d welcome them with open arms. I don’t care how old they are. If I have a player the size of 3 as my depth at the 4 there’s no way I’m turning down a player the caliber of Beran.

Why would I not want 3 returning starters? Ridiculous. This is like the take that this is a better team without Nance…. Ridiculous.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I have no idea how it’s unhealthy for a program to not have the best talent they can available to them. If two of the better guards in the conference want to play for my team I’d welcome them with open arms. I don’t care how old they are. If I have a player the size of 3 as my depth at the 4 there’s no way I’m turning down a player the caliber of Beran.

Why would I not want 3 returning starters? Ridiculous. This is like the take that this is a better team without Nance…. Ridiculous.

Your attitude is ridiculous. Its a college team. If any of those guys were my kid, I would tell them to graduate and follow their chosen career path.

And you are using the phrase "better guards in the conference" a little loosely, wouldn't you say?

I'm still rooting for you, though.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

Your attitude is ridiculous. Its a college team. If any of those guys were my kid, I would tell them to graduate and follow their chosen career path.

And you are using the phrase "better guards in the conference" a little loosely, wouldn't you say?

I'm still rooting for you, though.

I mean it’s ultimately up to the players but if they want to stay but how’s that “unhealthy”? I’m not saying they have to stay but if they want to all for it.

It’s healthy to have the best players available and to play them. To win games. If you can get better players than them then ya let em walk. I just think returning 3 starters is a good thing.

Audige is playing as one of the best two way players in the conference… hard stop. He’s one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. Leads the conference in steals. Is 10th in the conference in scoring.

Buie is 12th in scoring. 5-6th among guards. 5th in Assists. Being a top 5-6 guard in scoring and passing tends to make you a better guard in the conference.

Both players are in at least the top 25% of starting guards in the conference. I don’t think classifying top 25% of a position as better is loose.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

I mean it’s ultimately up to the players but if they want to stay but how’s that “unhealthy”? I’m not saying they have to stay but if they want to all for it.

It’s healthy to have the best players available and to play them. To win games. If you can get better players than them then ya let em walk. I just think returning 3 starters is a good thing.

Audige is playing as one of the best two way players in the conference… hard stop. He’s one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. Leads the conference in steals. Is 10th in the conference in scoring.

Buie is 12th in scoring. 5-6th among guards. 5th in Assists. Being a top 5-6 guard in scoring and passing tends to make you a better guard in the conference.

My concern is for the younger players, who have put in their apprenticeships and want to be starters. They need to play minutes, especially in crunch time, to improve. When such players feel they are being prevented from doing so, they can easily transfer elsewhere.

The "unhealthy" part is that you want your team (ideally) to be college-aged kids. This shows that you are able to recruit high school seniors and develop them, graduate them on time, build from within, so to speak, and keep doing it year after year. Bring in grad transfers and "normal" transfers as needed. I understand that we aren't really there yet, but to me thats a healthy program.

It struck me as weird to watch Brad Davison last year - it felt a bit pathetic. (But maybe thats because it was Brad Davison). Sorta like the 20 year old high school dropout hanging around the burger joint with the high school kids.

Audige is having a better season than last year, thats for sure, but his offensive statistics (against the Big Ten) work against his defensive play, somewhat. I'd say he's been overall above average for a Big Ten starter.

Buie's 3 point shooting has been poor enough that it makes it difficult for me to say he is above average for the league (thru 6 games). Last year I thought he was above average.

 

[SDakaGordie]

Your attitude is ridiculous. Its a college team. If any of those guys were my kid, I would tell them to graduate and follow their chosen career path.

And you are using the phrase "better guards in the conference" a little loosely, wouldn't you say?

I'm still rooting for you, though.

You say this about telling them to graduate and at the same time you want to field a competitive team in big-time college basketball? Hard to reconcile those two points of view.

 

[Deeringfish]

My concern is for the younger players, who have put in their apprenticeships and want to be starters. They need to play minutes, especially in crunch time, to improve. When such players feel they are being prevented from doing so, they can easily transfer elsewhere.

The "unhealthy" part is that you want your team (ideally) to be college-aged kids. This shows that you are able to recruit high school seniors and develop them, graduate them on time, build from within, so to speak, and keep doing it year after year. Bring in grad transfers and "normal" transfers as needed. I understand that we aren't really there yet, but to me thats a healthy program.

It struck me as weird to watch Brad Davison last year - it felt a bit pathetic. (But maybe thats because it was Brad Davison). Sorta like the 20 year old high school dropout hanging around the burger joint with the high school kids.

Audige is having a better season than last year, thats for sure, but his offensive statistics (against the Big Ten) work against his defensive play, somewhat. I'd say he's been overall above average for a Big Ten starter.

Buie's 3 point shooting has been poor enough that it makes it difficult for me to say he is above average for the league (thru 6 games). Last year I thought he was above average.

As long as this covid 6th year is in play a program that doesn't make the most of it will be playing at a disadvantage. Especially teams that consider themselves as developmental. I'm really tired of the Covid 6th year but it is still a reality.

 

[SmellyCat]

Audige is well on his way to making the all-conference team. Maybe not first team, but a guy averaging 15 ppg and playing all-world D is at least under consideration.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Audige is well on his way to making the all-conference team. Maybe not first team, but a guy averaging 15 ppg and playing all-world D is at least under consideration.

All-defensive team for sure.

 

[Dugan15]

I mean it’s ultimately up to the players but if they want to stay but how’s that “unhealthy”? I’m not saying they have to stay but if they want to all for it.

It’s healthy to have the best players available and to play them. To win games. If you can get better players than them then ya let em walk. I just think returning 3 starters is a good thing.

Audige is playing as one of the best two way players in the conference… hard stop. He’s one of the best perimeter defenders in the league. Leads the conference in steals. Is 10th in the conference in scoring.

Buie is 12th in scoring. 5-6th among guards. 5th in Assists. Being a top 5-6 guard in scoring and passing tends to make you a better guard in the conference.

Both players are in at least the top 25% of starting guards in the conference. I don’t think classifying top 25% of a position as better is loose.

Respectfully, Holland, I do not believe that both Chase and Boo are among the Top 10 guards in the guards in the conference (2.8 starting guards times 14 teams = 39 guards / 4 = Top 10.

I submit as evidence: Boo and Chase’s shooting. The fact that they are #2 and #3 in FGA / game among guards in the big ten is a testament to their importance to us, not to their level of elite play.

Chase’s defense has been nothing short of extraordinary.

Please know I am not a “hater”. I love their effort. Just think NU having 2 of the top 10 guards in the conference is not an accurate statement.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

You say this about telling them to graduate and at the same time you want to field a competitive team in big-time college basketball? Hard to reconcile those two points of view.

Not really hard to reconcile.

One is the point of view of a parent - "Son, its time to move on from NU... nearly all your friends are graduated and gone... if you want to try playing basketball as a pro in Europe, thats fine with me, but college isn't forever..."
You want the players to make the best choices for themselves.

The other view, as a fan, is "It would be nice if we can put together a good team, but we have to do it the right way." I'm opposed to lowering the admissions standards further, as well. I am not a "win at all costs" fan. Not even anywhere close.

I think I have a more optimistic outlook on underclassmen reaching their potential. Roper is still in the first half of his 2nd season. Nicholson and Barnhizer are essentially in the first half of their first season given how little they played last year. They will all improve. Hunger's injury is a big setback, but I have no concerns about his talent. I'm not ruling out Martinelli either. Berry is already a decent player.

Do we have some roster holes and depth issues if Audige, Beran and Buie all move on? Yes, but thats the way it goes. Hit the transfer portal, find the right guys. Hope your incoming freshman point guards are ready.

 

[Deeringfish]

Not really hard to reconcile.

One is the point of view of a parent - "Son, its time to move on from NU... nearly all your friends are graduated and gone... if you want to try playing basketball as a pro in Europe, thats fine with me, but college isn't forever..."
You want the players to make the best choices for themselves.

The other view, as a fan, is "It would be nice if we can put together a good team, but we have to do it the right way." I'm opposed to lowering the admissions standards further, as well. I am not a "win at all costs" fan. Not even anywhere close.

You could put the two together if NU had a well organized NIL system. Get someone to pay the guys to stay around.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Falling on my sword here...

I was lazy when discussing Buie, Beran and Audige - didn't have my facts straight.

Boo Buie started at NU in the fall of 2019. This is his 4th full season of college basketball.
It isn't ideal, but there would be nothing wrong with him returning to NU next year if thats what he wants to do.

Beran also started at NU in the fall of 2019. He got his undergrad diploma in 3 years. He's in grad school this season. If he wants to do that again and play basketball another season, thats reasonable.

Audige transferred in and sat out a year, as the rules dictated. He started college in the fall of 2018. Time to get on with life. (Somebody tell Miller Kopp).

So I apologize for getting that wrong.

 

[Akeehn0912]

These guys will have 40+ years to work, I don’t understand the logic of “forgo a masters from an elite institution for free while playing a game you love” is a bad decision. If they have professional basketball options that’s one thing. They have plenty of time coming for a more normal “career”.

 

[DaCat]

So I apologize for getting that wrong.

No worries, had to apply the TLDR rule to your earlier posts anyways.