Talent Gap

[Bwm57]

Thanks for quasi-confirming that third section was not necessarily a "student" section (although that raises other questions about why it was unsold, right?)

From one fan to another, I'm really, really sorry to hear you were boxed out of the lot. I'm pretty sure I was literally the last car they squeezed into the South Golf lot a little before 4 p.m., I don't remember this being a problem in previous years, but I also realize maybe I wasn't paying attention.

South Golf was never this crowded.
I believe they sold more passes this year although they deny it.
Plus, how does West lot get over full?
It’s not like the number of spaces changes each game, so did they over sell the number of spaces?

 

[docrugby1]

Let’s mandate athletes attend percussion concerts too.

Idiot.[/Q

I'd be surprised if we reduce stadium capacity much below 44-45k. Feels like we'd still want to have that kind of capacity for big games or big opponents.

Basketball is a different calculation: we were keeping the basic frame of the arena and expanding all of the amenities while making it much more of an intimate atmosphere. You're going to lose 10-15% of your seats if you do that.


The stadium needs a more complete knockdown and rebuild on all 3 sides in my opinion. Given that we won't have a limiting frame, there's no real reason to reduce capacity below 44-45k.

Ryan is OK for 7 games a year. If you do a knockdown, you will see yearly seat licenses and an already small STH base will shrink further. .

 

[Hungry Jack]

I was generally ambivalent about RF until waiting in line for 15 minutes to pee about 2 minutes before halftime Saturday night. I generally think the sight lines are quite good and the capacity is about right, but they really need to improve the amenities and access/mobility. The upper levels really start to feel like a trap when the stadium is full.

I think they should replace the benches with actual seats, which would shrink the capacity a bit (I'll WAG about 10%), and make the venue more attractive to NU fans.

Adding restroom capacity seems to be a must. Jeez--put portapotties in some areas when games are sold if they have to. But somehow adding toilet capacity and creating more pedestrian room in the upper levels seems a must.

They could also add colors (light ones) and lighting so the interior passages did not feel like a Ukrainian zinc mine. It is a simple fact that smaller spaces feel bigger with lighter colors and ample lighting.

These are changes that could be effected without a major reconstruction (I think)

 

[hdhntr1]

Still there, but we hung in there with a top 5 team. Most evident in the trenches. They consistently got pressure with a 4 man rush while Book was playing video game football with all day to throw in the 2nd half. After that, the WR talent disparity was evident to me, just in terms of size, speed, and athleticism at X and Y. Nagel is on the level in the slot. Then at CB where our island coverage is a bit more like SPF 15 to their SPF 50... we're not getting completely burned, but not covered enough to be out all day on the island.

Team showed a lot of heart and made me a proud alumnus tonight. I definitely wish we had another shot at them in 2 years.

Good game boys!

Students... I'm disappointed. Even the announcers and ESPN called you out on national TV.

Their passing game was good all day but really showed up after our CB and Safety went down.

 

[hdhntr1]

And yet Thorson was the 4 star QB and Book was a lowly 3 star...

To be fair, Book was not under constant presser as CT was. When he rolled to the right (often) that cut down 3/4s of the field that had to be covered by ND and there was not really anyone open. Book had all day to throw, particularly after McGee and Williams went down and his WRs were catching everything even when pretty well covered. With all that said, Book was impressive and being the dual threat really helped them.

 

[hdhntr1]

I disagree, based on the TV angles. Looked to me like the student section never came close to filling up.

It seemed to fill up later

 

[hdhntr1]

All I know is the Stadium was absolutely packed. Lines for bathrooms and food were atrocious. Not nearly enough portable johns and getting into parking was a big mess. These are much bigger complaints to me than worrying about what the student section looks like on TV.

They don't drive and don't have to go as often as us old guys. They could have used more portapotties in the SG lot for sure

 

[hdhntr1]

So who cares about the students attending? Easy fix, Reduce the student section. Sorry, but the type of students being admitted are quite different than good ole State U. They are from all over the country/world. Rarely are they legacy. They generally come in with no affiliation to NU or any point of reference from a sports perspective. They graduate and most move out of the area. They then watch the game on TV if they get any interest to begin with. Every season and now it seems like every week we hear about the students not attending, frankly I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

Even at WIS and those other schools, tons of students do not go We have a small student body. What kind of student turnout %are you looking for as being good? One thing about Sat. Without Red being the opposing color, could not tell the crowd split

 

[hdhntr1]

So who cares about the students attending? Easy fix, Reduce the student section. Sorry, but the type of students being admitted are quite different than good ole State U. They are from all over the country/world. Rarely are they legacy. They generally come in with no affiliation to NU or any point of reference from a sports perspective. They graduate and most move out of the area. They then watch the game on TV if they get any interest to begin with. Every season and now it seems like every week we hear about the students not attending, frankly I don’t see that changing anytime soon.

Losing our first 3 home games, a couple before students even get on campus does not help

 

[docrugby1]

Let’s mandate athletes attend percussion concerts too.

Idiot.

Thanks for the kind word.

I will continue to support admitting well rounded students with good academics, athletic participation, extra-curricular activities(band etc) over students with high grades and nothing more.

I would guess that ND has about the same number of undergrad students as NU. ND's band had 3 to 4 times more members than NUs. I doubt the student section at South Bend has any problems filling(I only attended one game there so no long term info)

 

[hdhntr1]

NU should allot three sections for students, but only set aside sections based on demand. A very, very simple reservation system - claim your seats online or on an app, with only your student ID number by, say, Wednesday before game day. If only two sections’ worth are selected, then the remaining section goes on sale to the public.

Mobile tickets would automatically update to identify whether it’s 212-214, or only 212-213 for the students, still requiring ID for entrance. Shoot, even make student-to-student transfer possible.

Empty sections in a game like that - a huge game, a night game, on a beautiful night - absolutely convey that NU is not *big time*.

It’s news when Michigan has empty pockets - it means they’ve gotten reallllly bad. It’s news when NU does not.[/QUOTE} Where are 212-214?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Losing our first 3 home games, a couple before students even get on campus does not help

I don’t really care how many students attend. Alumni are the one’s that get worked up on this one. I have said it 100 times, if NU wants to fill up Ryan Field they need to consistently win and therefore pull in the local non-affiliated NU fan. Their marketing of Chicago’s Big Ten team was brilliant. Got me. However, to take to the next step they need to be the flavor of the day in Chicago Sports entertainment. Sorry, but alumni living in Albuquerque or students in an ultra competitive academic environment aren’t going to cut it when it comes to filling the stadium.

 

[hdhntr1]

Good analysis. Someone opined that student attendance was better at basketball games because basketball is played in virtually every country and football is basically a US game.

Student sections in BB are only about 1000 total vs FB where each section is about 1500-2000. With 3 sections that is at least 4500 seats

 

[docrugby1]

You mean the ones that are likely spending thousands of dollars to attend school at NU?

Yes, those are the students I am referencing.

 

[stpaulcat]

I was generally ambivalent about RF until waiting in line for 15 minutes to pee about 2 minutes before halftime Saturday night. I generally think the sight lines are quite good and the capacity is about right, but they really need to improve the amenities and access/mobility. The upper levels really start to feel like a trap when the stadium is full.

I think they should replace the benches with actual seats, which would shrink the capacity a bit (I'll WAG about 10%), and make the venue more attractive to NU fans.

Adding restroom capacity seems to be a must. Jeez--put portapotties in some areas when games are sold if they have to. But somehow adding toilet capacity and creating more pedestrian room in the upper levels seems a must.

They could also add colors (light ones) and lighting so the interior passages did not feel like a Ukrainian zinc mine. It is a simple fact that smaller spaces feel bigger with lighter colors and ample lighting.

These are changes that could be effected without a major reconstruction (I think)

There is a lot of air space under the west stands (don't know about the east, so plenty of room for better bathrooms and concessions.

 

[StreamCat]

Ryan is OK for 7 games a year. If you do a knockdown, you will see yearly seat licenses and an already small STH base will shrink further. .

Yeah, I’m not sure my wife would OK a seat license. I already spend a ton of money on Wildcat football.

 

[hdhntr1]

I disagree, based on the TV angles. Looked to me like the student section never came close to filling up.

Do you have any idea how many student seats there are? Each row has about 30 or so seats. Section 105 which is similar to 111 has at least 61 rows. the other sections might have a couple fewer rows but in general each section holds 1500-2000 seats so that would mean a total of around 4500-5000 (I think actual number is 4600)seats for a student body (undergrad which is who generally sits there) of about 8K. This is a seat availability of 55-60%. Bigger state schools that you allude to do not have that availability of seats for the undergrad student body. For example, most big state schools in the BIG have undergrad student bodies of 40K or more (not IA or Purdue) . Do you really think that they are reserving 25K (only one that comes close is PSU with 21K)seats for the student body? Wisc has 14k Student section seats or about 35% coverage so no way. In fact this is pretty good as Mich is 13-14K, NEB is only 8500, etc. Only PSU has more and it still pales in % comparison. Kinnick has about 10.4k student seats for 29K undergrads.

http://www.dailynebraskan.com/sport...cle_9b30b5f8-2f1b-11e4-99ad-001a4bcf6878.html

In short NU student section might look a little more empty as it has available seating for 55-60% of the undergrad student body which is very high compared with other programs in the BIG that tend to have coverage for 35% or less of their undergrad student bodies. But most of them also have to buy tickets to the games where at NU it is part of the student fees. At the same time, it generally also represents a smaller % of total capacity than other schools that tent to be 13-20% of total capacity where NU is under 10% of total seating.. Several of these other stadiums have recently cut down student sections because of lack of use by students (IA sold 7400 of 10400 seats a couple years ago and they may have taken sections from student body to sell to general public. Mich reduced student capacity from 20k to 13-14K But again these are places where the seats can generally be sold to the public.

One of the reasons it has generally not been an issue is that NU does not generally sold out. This year is more of an exception with all the big games. And giving the students 3 sections likely would continue till outside demand is consistently great enough that it is an issue

 

[DaCat]

Do you have any idea how many student seats there are? Each ro has about 30 or so seats. Section 105 which is similar to 111 has at least 61 rows. the other sections might have a couple fewer rows but in general each section holds 1500-2000 seats so that would mean a total of around 5k seats for a student body (undergrad which is who generally sits there) of about 8K. This is a% availability of over 60%. I doubt that bigger schools have that availability of seats for the undergrad student body. Fore example, most big state schools in the BIG have undergrad student bodies of around 40K . Do you really think that they are reserving 25K seats for the student body? Wisc has 14k Student section seats or about 35% coverage so yes. In fact this is pretty good as Mich is 13-14K, NEB is only 8500, etc

Good point. Even if you throw in the grad students at NU (excluding Chicago campus) it still seems like a high ratio.

 

[DarthCat]

South Golf was never this crowded.
I believe they sold more passes this year although they deny it.
Plus, how does West lot get over full?
It’s not like the number of spaces changes each game, so did they over sell the number of spaces?

This was infuriating. With the IHSA playoffs, I wasn’t able to get to Ryan Field until just before 5, and was turned away at the West lot because it was full.

 

[HawkCat]

Do you have any idea how many student seats there are? Each row has about 30 or so seats. Section 105 which is similar to 111 has at least 61 rows. the other sections might have a couple fewer rows but in general each section holds 1500-2000 seats so that would mean a total of around 4500-5000 (I think actual number is 4600)seats for a student body (undergrad which is who generally sits there) of about 8K. This is a seat availability of 55-60%. Bigger state schools that you allude to do not have that availability of seats for the undergrad student body. For example, most big state schools in the BIG have undergrad student bodies of 40K or more (not IA or Purdue) . Do you really think that they are reserving 25K (only one that comes close is PSU with 21K)seats for the student body? Wisc has 14k Student section seats or about 35% coverage so no way. In fact this is pretty good as Mich is 13-14K, NEB is only 8500, etc. Only PSU has more and it still pales in % comparison. Kinnick has about 10.4k student seats for 29K undergrads.

http://www.dailynebraskan.com/sport...cle_9b30b5f8-2f1b-11e4-99ad-001a4bcf6878.html

In short NU student section might look a little more empty as it has available seating for 55-60% of the undergrad student body which is very high compared with other programs in the BIG that tend to have coverage for 35% or less of their undergrad student bodies. But most of them also have to buy tickets to the games where at NU it is part of the student fees. At the same time, it generally also represents a smaller % of total capacity than other schools that tent to be 13-20% of total capacity where NU is under 10% of total seating.. Several of these other stadiums have recently cut down student sections because of lack of use by students (IA sold 7400 of 10400 seats a couple years ago and they may have taken sections from student body to sell to general public. Mich reduced student capacity from 20k to 13-14K But again these are places where the seats can generally be sold to the public.

One of the reasons it has generally not been an issue is that NU does not generally sold out. This year is more of an exception with all the big games. And giving the students 3 sections likely would continue till outside demand is consistently great enough that it is an issue

Not sure why you are purporting to argue with me. I haven't said anything about public schools in this thread, but I have advocated reducing the size of the student section--which your analysis would support doing, at least for high-demand games.

 

[hdhntr1]

The small size of the NU student body is a valid point . And yes since Northwestern students tend to be serious about their education many of them do not care about the athletic teams although there are certainly exceptions (although I was a pre-med I attended all home FB games and most home BB games during my 1967-1971 tenure)

So originally you, like I went to the FB games to see the band. It was a lot of fun and I made it to every home game and saw the improvement under Agasse Unfortunately I also saw Pont arrival.

Yes the student body is not just smaller but much smaller than any other BIG school. But also we have student seats available for 55-60% of the student body. Most other schools have seats for only 25-35% of their undergrad student body

 

[hdhntr1]

Not sure why you are purporting to argue with me. I haven't said anything about public schools in this thread, but I have advocated reducing the size of the student section--which your analysis would support doing, at least for high-demand games.

I just get tired of all the bashing of our student body attendance trying to compare vs other schools in the BIG by looking at it and saying "look at all the empty seats". If the same% of students attended games at NU as other schools, the student sections would still be half empty. It is really not a fair comparison in any way as not only do we have an undergrad pop that is 20% or less of the bigger schools but we also have double the student seats available per student. We could have sold more seats to ND game but what other games have we been totally sold out where having those seats available to general public would have made any difference? Cut down student seats and empty seats will show up elsewhere. And if you try to restrict it just for the big games, it is likely to be a logistical nightmare

 

[hdhntr1]

Then NU will not only have the smallest BB arena but the smallest FB stadium as well. Maybe they will have at least the largest stadium in the MAC. Really sad for a university who shares a border with a world class city and it's millions of residents.

Chicago is a pro sports town and in general other schools in large metro areas that are pro sports towns have similar issues with attendance. This is especially true with private schools

 

[hdhntr1]

Good analysis. Someone opined that student attendance was better at basketball games because basketball is played in virtually every country and football is basically a US game.

We have 1000 seats available in the student sections for BB. We have 4600 available for FB. 1000 attend BB and it is full. 1000 attend in FB and you are at 20-25%

 

[Catreporter]

Chicago is a pro sports town and in general other schools in large metro areas that are pro sports towns have similar issues with attendance. This is especially true with private schools

Bingo! Attended a game at Minnesota a few years ago in their brand new stadium and there were stories of the student section being half empty all the time (and they even sell beer there!)

 

[HawkCat]

I just get tired of all the bashing of our student body attendance trying to compare vs other schools in the BIG by looking at it and saying "look at all the empty seats". If the same% of students attended games at NU as other schools, the student sections would still be half empty. It is really not a fair comparison in any way as not only do we have an undergrad pop that is 20% or less of the bigger schools but we also have double the student seats available per student. We could have sold more seats to ND game but what other games have we been totally sold out where having those seats available to general public would have made any difference? Cut down student seats and empty seats will show up elsewhere. And if you try to restrict it just for the big games, it is likely to be a logistical nightmare

I actually did not mean to bash the students so much as to call for reducing the size of the student section. Given the small size of our student body and the inherent nature of students at more academically driven schools, I think it is just unrealistic to fill the sections currently reserved for students. If you can't put student butts in those seats for a night game against Notre Dame, you are never going to fill those seats. Might as well make them available for the general public in the most-in-demand games.

 

[TheC]

Then NU will not only have the smallest BB arena but the smallest FB stadium as well.

But we're the smallest school in the BIG I think by far. Why is that something to get upset about?

 

[willycat]

I actually did not mean to bash the students so much as to call for reducing the size of the student section. Given the small size of our student body and the inherent nature of students at more academically driven schools, I think it is just unrealistic to fill the sections currently reserved for students. If you can't put student butts in those seats for a night game against Notre Dame, you are never going to fill those seats. Might as well make them available for the general public in the most-in-demand games.

Reasonable thoughts but those seats if not set aside for students would likely have been filled with Nebraska, Wisconsin or ND fans.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Reasonable thoughts but those seats if not set aside for students would likely have been filled with Nebraska, Wisconsin or ND fans.

Aren't you the guy bitching about reduced basketball seating capacity because we can't attract "Chicago sports fans" (i.e. Nebraska, Wisconsin, or ND fans)?