The end game for the B1G...

[Katatonic]

or what Warren and the rest over at B1G HQ should be strategizing for (along with Fox).

The B1G is in great shape if they stand pat at 16 , (barring any additional moves by the SEC), and would be ecstatic if they finally are able to convince ND (due to the quickly changing CFB landscape of having 2 dominant conferences) to join the conference with 1 additional school (top choices would likely be UNC or Stanford - the Domers probably will have a hand in who gets picked); Stanford really only being on the list because they are a traditional rival for ND).

While limiting it those 18 schools may maximize payoffs for the near term, it's kinda an unwieldy number with the LA schools being relegated to a far away outpost.

To offset that, can go up to 20 schools by adding Washington and Oregon, but apparently those 2 are seen as "tweeners" by the B1G FO when it comes to adding revenue.

While this may seem counterintuitive, adding 6 more schools to bring the total to 24 may be the answer.

With 24 schools, can have 4 divisions (with mostly traditional geographic rivalries) of 6 schools with each school playing 5 teams from its own division, 6 teams from another division and 1 protected rivalry to make up a 12 game season schedule (so NO OOC games).


Atlantic
Rutgers
Maryland
Penn State
North Carolina
Notre Dame
?

Midwest
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
?

Heartland
Northwestern
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska


Pacific
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon
Washington
?


While geographically ND fits in with either the Midwest or Heartland division (would make things a lot easier), the Domers have long resisted being identified with that region, so they likely would insist on being in the Atlantic (where the most Domers fans live/live nearby and where they would get to continue playing against a couple of their former ACC colleagues).

The 3 realistic options out of the ACC for the 6th spot in the Atlantic would be UVA, Dook and UMiami.

Out of the 3, UMiami is the only traditional football power, but they have struggled in getting even close to what they once were.

While UMiami would further help open up the rich recruiting base that is the state of Florida, the Miami fan base isn't exactly big and they tend to be a fickle lot; plus UMiami would really be on an "island" by itself and a big part of the argument in expanding to as many as 24 schools is to have some sort of regional connection for each division.

That leaves it btwn UVA and Dook.

UVA has more the traditional profile of a B1G school - being the state flagship university, but while its men's BB program has had a certain level of national success, it's not Dook basketball.

Otoh, UVA's FB program has more potential to be consistently competitive (Virginia has a decent recruiting base) and would really secure the greater DC metro area for the B1G while also keep geographic continuity.

But as much as I despise Dook (while having a fondness for UVA), Dook BB is Dook BB and including UNC's biggest rival would likeky make them happier(?); but maybe the UNC fan base would love seeing Dook being relegated to 2nd tier status.

For the Pacific division - not really any compelling choices left, but the choice is probably btwn Arizona and Colorado w/ maybe an outside shot for Cal (altho 2 schools in the Bay area would be overkill).

AZ has the best program of all 3 in men's BB, but BB really isn't a driver in these decisions (otherwise, CBB blueblood and reigning national champ Kansas would have been snapped up), and maybe it would be best for the B1G to let the SEC have their choice of the AZ schools (more on that later).

Colorado has had the most success in FB, but that was decades ago and they have really struggled to even attain relevance in the PAC.

The biggest ? when it comes to the 6th member is for the Midwest division.

If the Domers were willing to head to a division that was a geographic fit, then you could stick them in the Heartland division and move Illinois over to the Midwest (this way, can then add both UVA and Dook to the Atlantic), but don't see that happening.

There really isn't any school that fits the B1G criteria close by, so this leaves additional geographic shuffling.

One option would be to add both UVA and Dook to the Atlantic and ship Rutgers to the Midwest (would no longer be wholly accurate, but then again, the B1G has long ceased in having 10 members).

Another option would be adding 2 more schools from the PAC with one of them being Colorado with the Buffs reuniting with the Huskers in the Heartland division and moving Illinois to the Midwest.

The latter of the 2 options is cleaner geographically, but think adding 2 ACC schools brings more to the table.

 

[Katatonic]

A 24 school conference like this would cover pretty much every major metro market outside the deep South and SW.

ND would bring the Boston market and there are plenty of B1G alums living in that area.


Atlantic
Maryland
Penn State
North Carolina
Notre Dame
UVA
Dook

Midwest
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Rutgers

Heartland
Northwestern
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska

Pacific
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon
Washington
Colorado/Cal?


With 24 schools, can have your own playoffs with the winner of each division and 2 wild cards (with the top 2 seeds getting byes) with the B1G champ meeting the SEC champ in the college equivalent of the Super Bowl.

Now, this would be predicated on the SEC also expanding to 24 schools - which is why left the AZ schools as options for the SEC dwindle after Clemson, FSU and UMiami (VaTech and NC State also being candidates).

FS1 and ESPN would rotate televising the championship game.game .

But that's not all.

Would also borrow a page out of European football and have a lesser tournament for the next 4-6 teams - which would basically replace lesser bowl games.

The current bowl system (esp. the lesser bowl games) is a rip off for schools and conferences.

After all the travel expenses and guaranteeing ticket sales, a school could be in the deficit for going to a bowl.

The ones who make out big time are the handful of men who run those bowl games (and it's a nice payday for really not much work).

All that $$ should be going to the conference and its member achools.

Likewise, the winner of the 4-6 team tournament on the B1G side would meet its SEC counterpart for bragging rights or can change things up and have a single, larger tournament involving schools from both conferences (this may make things more interesting for the 2nd tier playoffs).

This will help keep the interest of the fan bases of schools which had nice seasons (say, an 8 win season), but missed the playoffs - as well as providing more programming for TV networks and streaming sites.

 

[NUCat320]

I kind of hate all of this but it’s inevitable and I applaud Warren for being the first to truly truly truly ignore geography in pursuit of new programs. I’d also love a scenario where, yes, the west coast division existed, but where it did not affect the athletes sooo much. (One trip west a season is fine, not unlike the baseball/softball February trips to Florida or the west coast.)

 

[jimmyNU]

or what Warren and the rest over at B1G HQ should be strategizing for (along with Fox).

The B1G is in great shape if they stand pat at 16 , (barring any additional moves by the SEC), and would be ecstatic if they finally are able to convince ND (due to the quickly changing CFB landscape of having 2 dominant conferences) to join the conference with 1 additional school (top choices would likely be UNC or Stanford - the Domers probably will have a hand in who gets picked); Stanford really only being on the list because they are a traditional rival for ND).

While limiting it those 18 schools may maximize payoffs for the near term, it's kinda an unwieldy number with the LA schools being relegated to a far away outpost.

To offset that, can go up to 20 schools by adding Washington and Oregon, but apparently those 2 are seen as "tweeners" by the B1G FO when it comes to adding revenue.

While this may seem counterintuitive, adding 6 more schools to bring the total to 24 may be the answer.

With 24 schools, can have 4 divisions (with mostly traditional geographic rivalries) of 6 schools with each school playing 5 teams from its own division, 6 teams from another division and 1 protected rivalry to make up a 12 game season schedule (so NO OOC games).


Atlantic
Rutgers
Maryland
Penn State
North Carolina
Notre Dame
?

Midwest
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
?

Heartland
Northwestern
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska


Pacific
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon
Washington
?


While geographically ND fits in with either the Midwest or Heartland division (would make things a lot easier), the Domers have long resisted being identified with that region, so they likely would insist on being in the Atlantic (where the most Domers fans live/live nearby and where they would get to continue playing against a couple of their former ACC colleagues).

The 3 realistic options out of the ACC for the 6th spot in the Atlantic would be UVA, Dook and UMiami.

Out of the 3, UMiami is the only traditional football power, but they have struggled in getting even close to what they once were.

While UMiami would further help open up the rich recruiting base that is the state of Florida, the Miami fan base isn't exactly big and they tend to be a fickle lot; plus UMiami would really be on an "island" by itself and a big part of the argument in expanding to as many as 24 schools is to have some sort of regional connection for each division.

That leaves it btwn UVA and Dook.

UVA has more the traditional profile of a B1G school - being the state flagship university, but while its men's BB program has had a certain level of national success, it's not Dook basketball.

Otoh, UVA's FB program has more potential to be consistently competitive (Virginia has a decent recruiting base) and would really secure the greater DC metro area for the B1G while also keep geographic continuity.

But as much as I despise Dook (while having a fondness for UVA), Dook BB is Dook BB and including UNC's biggest rival would likeky make them happier(?); but maybe the UNC fan base would love seeing Dook being relegated to 2nd tier status.

For the Pacific division - not really any compelling choices left, but the choice is probably btwn Arizona and Colorado w/ maybe an outside shot for Cal (altho 2 schools in the Bay area would be overkill).

AZ has the best program of all 3 in men's BB, but BB really isn't a driver in these decisions (otherwise, CBB blueblood and reigning national champ Kansas would have been snapped up), and maybe it would be best for the B1G to let the SEC have their choice of the AZ schools (more on that later).

Colorado has had the most success in FB, but that was decades ago and they have really struggled to even attain relevance in the PAC.

The biggest ? when it comes to the 6th member is for the Midwest division.

If the Domers were willing to head to a division that was a geographic fit, then you could stick them in the Heartland division and move Illinois over to the Midwest (this way, can then add both UVA and Dook to the Atlantic), but don't see that happening.

There really isn't any school that fits the B1G criteria close by, so this leaves additional geographic shuffling.

One option would be to add both UVA and Dook to the Atlantic and ship Rutgers to the Midwest (would no longer be wholly accurate, but then again, the B1G has long ceased in having 10 members).

Another option would be adding 2 more schools from the PAC with one of them being Colorado with the Buffs reuniting with the Huskers in the Heartland division and moving Illinois to the Midwest.

The latter of the 2 options is cleaner geographically, but think adding 2 ACC schools brings more to the table.

I dislike all of these changes, but the 24-team option does make a lot of sense. I admire the thought you put into this.

 

[ColumbusCatFan1]

A 24 school conference like this would cover pretty much every major metro market outside the deep South and SW.

ND would bring the Boston market and there are plenty of B1G alums living in that area.


Atlantic
Maryland
Penn State
North Carolina
Notre Dame
UVA
Dook

Midwest
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Rutgers

Heartland
Northwestern
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska

Pacific
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon
Washington
Colorado/Cal?


With 24 schools, can have your own playoffs with the winner of each division and 2 wild cards (with the top 2 seeds getting byes) with the B1G champ meeting the SEC champ in the college equivalent of the Super Bowl.

Now, this would be predicated on the SEC also expanding to 24 schools - which is why left the AZ schools as options for the SEC dwindle after Clemson, FSU and UMiami (VaTech and NC State also being candidates).

FS1 and ESPN would rotate televising the championship game.game .

But that's not all.

Would also borrow a page out of European football and have a lesser tournament for the next 4-6 teams - which would basically replace lesser bowl games.

The current bowl system (esp. the lesser bowl games) is a rip off for schools and conferences.

After all the travel expenses and guaranteeing ticket sales, a school could be in the deficit for going to a bowl.

The ones who make out big time are the handful of men who run those bowl games (and it's a nice payday for really not much work).

All that $$ should be going to the conference and its member achools.

Likewise, the winner of the 4-6 team tournament on the B1G side would meet its SEC counterpart for bragging rights or can change things up and have a single, larger tournament involving schools from both conferences (this may make things more interesting for the 2nd tier playoffs).

This will help keep the interest of the fan bases of schools which had nice seasons (say, an 8 win season), but missed the playoffs - as well as providing more programming for TV networks and streaming sites.

Like NUCat320, I’m not a fan of the direction college football is headed (I won’t rehash on this thread). That being said, if the BIG (or whatever it will be called) goes with the type of set up you have suggested, I can see the appeal.

18-22 teams make little sense to me. A 24 team-4 division, 10 conference games only set up (with a protected cross division rivalry) however, does offer something a little more interesting.

Imho, the wildcards (as you’ve laid out) for the conference playoff are an absolute must. Otherwise, it may become similar to what baseball was in the 1990s/2000s without the incentive to tank for high draft picks.

This is a well thought out plan for the future of BIG/college football as it seems we’ve reached the point of no return RE conference consolidation.

Excellent post, Katatonic.

 

[hdhntr1]

or what Warren and the rest over at B1G HQ should be strategizing for (along with Fox).

The B1G is in great shape if they stand pat at 16 , (barring any additional moves by the SEC), and would be ecstatic if they finally are able to convince ND (due to the quickly changing CFB landscape of having 2 dominant conferences) to join the conference with 1 additional school (top choices would likely be UNC or Stanford - the Domers probably will have a hand in who gets picked); Stanford really only being on the list because they are a traditional rival for ND).

While limiting it those 18 schools may maximize payoffs for the near term, it's kinda an unwieldy number with the LA schools being relegated to a far away outpost.

To offset that, can go up to 20 schools by adding Washington and Oregon, but apparently those 2 are seen as "tweeners" by the B1G FO when it comes to adding revenue.

While this may seem counterintuitive, adding 6 more schools to bring the total to 24 may be the answer.

With 24 schools, can have 4 divisions (with mostly traditional geographic rivalries) of 6 schools with each school playing 5 teams from its own division, 6 teams from another division and 1 protected rivalry to make up a 12 game season schedule (so NO OOC games).


Atlantic
Rutgers
Maryland
Penn State
North Carolina
Notre Dame
?

Midwest
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
?

Heartland
Northwestern
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska


Pacific
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon
Washington
?


While geographically ND fits in with either the Midwest or Heartland division (would make things a lot easier), the Domers have long resisted being identified with that region, so they likely would insist on being in the Atlantic (where the most Domers fans live/live nearby and where they would get to continue playing against a couple of their former ACC colleagues).

The 3 realistic options out of the ACC for the 6th spot in the Atlantic would be UVA, Dook and UMiami.

Out of the 3, UMiami is the only traditional football power, but they have struggled in getting even close to what they once were.

While UMiami would further help open up the rich recruiting base that is the state of Florida, the Miami fan base isn't exactly big and they tend to be a fickle lot; plus UMiami would really be on an "island" by itself and a big part of the argument in expanding to as many as 24 schools is to have some sort of regional connection for each division.

That leaves it btwn UVA and Dook.

UVA has more the traditional profile of a B1G school - being the state flagship university, but while its men's BB program has had a certain level of national success, it's not Dook basketball.

Otoh, UVA's FB program has more potential to be consistently competitive (Virginia has a decent recruiting base) and would really secure the greater DC metro area for the B1G while also keep geographic continuity.

But as much as I despise Dook (while having a fondness for UVA), Dook BB is Dook BB and including UNC's biggest rival would likeky make them happier(?); but maybe the UNC fan base would love seeing Dook being relegated to 2nd tier status.

For the Pacific division - not really any compelling choices left, but the choice is probably btwn Arizona and Colorado w/ maybe an outside shot for Cal (altho 2 schools in the Bay area would be overkill).

AZ has the best program of all 3 in men's BB, but BB really isn't a driver in these decisions (otherwise, CBB blueblood and reigning national champ Kansas would have been snapped up), and maybe it would be best for the B1G to let the SEC have their choice of the AZ schools (more on that later).

Colorado has had the most success in FB, but that was decades ago and they have really struggled to even attain relevance in the PAC.

The biggest ? when it comes to the 6th member is for the Midwest division.

If the Domers were willing to head to a division that was a geographic fit, then you could stick them in the Heartland division and move Illinois over to the Midwest (this way, can then add both UVA and Dook to the Atlantic), but don't see that happening.

There really isn't any school that fits the B1G criteria close by, so this leaves additional geographic shuffling.

One option would be to add both UVA and Dook to the Atlantic and ship Rutgers to the Midwest (would no longer be wholly accurate, but then again, the B1G has long ceased in having 10 members).

Another option would be adding 2 more schools from the PAC with one of them being Colorado with the Buffs reuniting with the Huskers in the Heartland division and moving Illinois to the Midwest.

The latter of the 2 options is cleaner geographically, but think adding 2 ACC schools brings more to the table.

If you ended up with the two superconferences, who would you play in bowl games or would that be dead?

 

[eastbaycat99]

If you ended up with the two superconferences, who would you play in bowl games or would that be dead?

Since I’ve already expressed my total disgust with the way things are going, if two super conferences are inevitable, here is my admittedly wild suggestion:

1) Make regular season 8 or 9 games
2) Make national championship a four team tournament with B1G and SEC super conferences winners, and an East and West non-super conference champion.
3) After the regular season, super conference division winners play a tournament to determine champions with first and second round losers playing consolation games.
3) For non-superconference teams, top 8 ranked in East and West play 8 game tournament with consolation rounds to get winner to BCS.
4) All teams not in superconference championship round would play an 8 team, 3 game regional cup set of tournaments with consolation rounds.
5) The championships of the various tournaments would be the traditional bowl games.

Teams would generally have 11 or 12 game seasons, with NCS playing 13 or 14.
Teams would have opportunity to win division, conference, super conference, regional cup, and national championship honors, depending on affiliation.

Some semblance of sanity would prevail.

The regional cup games, with, for example, NIU playing Illinois or SDSU playing UCLA would be fun.
Having an attainable goal, like a division championship, would keep the NU’s and Cals of the world in the game.

I can only hope.

 

[FeralFelidae]

ND would bring the Boston market

 

[phatcat]

Anyone else want Notre Dumb to be without a chair when the music stops?

 

[willycat]

Since I’ve already expressed my total disgust with the way things are going, if two super conferences are inevitable, here is my admittedly wild suggestion:

1) Make regular season 8 or 9 games
2) Make national championship a four team tournament with B1G and SEC super conferences winners, and an East and West non-super conference champion.
3) After the regular season, super conference division winners play a tournament to determine champions with first and second round losers playing consolation games.
3) For non-superconference teams, top 8 ranked in East and West play 8 game tournament with consolation rounds to get winner to BCS.
4) All teams not in superconference championship round would play an 8 team, 3 game regional cup set of tournaments with consolation rounds.
5) The championships of the various tournaments would be the traditional bowl games.

Teams would generally have 11 or 12 game seasons, with NCS playing 13 or 14.
Teams would have opportunity to win division, conference, super conference, regional cup, and national championship honors, depending on affiliation.

Some semblance of sanity would prevail.

The regional cup games, with, for example, NIU playing Illinois or SDSU playing UCLA would be fun.
Having an attainable goal, like a division championship, would keep the NU’s and Cals of the world in the game.

I can only hope.

With the large number of games you propose, what kind of money do you think the players should be paid? $5,000, 10,000, 20,000, more?

 

[eastbaycat99]

With the large number of games you propose, what kind of money do you think the players should be paid? $5,000, 10,000, 20,000, more?

Number of games is same as current. No or one early non conference, 8 or 9 for conference, 3 post conference season, either 11 or 12 for all but 4 BCS teams. BCS teams play 2 more. Teams play 11 or 12 except BCS.

 

[Dugan15]

A) I share others’ disappointment for what this means relative to what made the college sports we grew up with so unique and fun.

B) Please recognize that the seismic changes that have happened and will continue to happen were set in motion LONG ago. It was set in motion by TV contracts from decades past. It was set in motion by coaches’ salaries. It was set in motion by facility arms races. It was NOT set in motion by Kain Colter or NIL. I don’t believe this thread is suggesting that. I just want to make clear that “greed of the players” or “why aren’t they happy with their scholarship” was never the right answer. I appreciate that adding USC and UCLA makes clear to everyone how college presidents have prioritized “student-athletes” (cough).

 

[Katatonic]

If you ended up with the two superconferences, who would you play in bowl games or would that be dead?

Why would the 2 super-conferences be interested in bowl games where they would have to share that $$ with the bowl operators (sometimes putting the participating schools in a deficit)?

All the playoff and tier 2 tournament games would be in-house, keeping all the $$ within the conference.

If the other conferences want to keep participating in bowl games, they certainly can do so, but would imagine the payouts would be greatly reduced.

Now, I do think it would be great if the B1G can come to an agreement with the Rose Bowl/city of Pasadena to make the Rose Bowl one of the sites for the B1G championship game.

Up in the air as to whether the semi-final games would be at a neutral site, but it's a big ask to ask the B1G champ fan base to travel 3x (semi, B1G championship and the interconference championship against the SEC.

The wildcard games would definitely be at the home stadium of the division winner, but half of the seats being available to the WC school.

Disagree with eastbay - don't see why the 2 super-conferences would have any incentive to have a playoff including whatever conferences are piece-mealed together from the remnants of the P12, B12 and ACC;; plus, think it's better if the B1G and SEC each have their own playoffs (like the AFC and NFC) with the conference champs meeting up in the collegiate version of the Super Bowl.

If both super-conferences do end up expanding to 24 schools, need every game to be a conference game; plus any OOC games would bring in too many variables disrupting how division winners and WC teams are sorted out.

Word is that while the Pac schools were blindsided by the decision, the powers that be in South Bend were kept in the loop, so the decision to expand to 18 (or stand pat) could happen fairly soon.

Think a stipend is inevitable with the amount of $$ B1G and SEC schools will be pulling in.

While it probably will have be to collectively bargained, can see a graduated stipend with the amount escalating each year.

Assume the 1 time transfer will continued to be allowed, but would be smart if it is set up so that such transfers (not grad transfers) would forfeit their prior year stipend (so a player transferring after his soph season would give up the soph stipend), but not sure if it would pass legal muster.

? is whether a stipend of equal amount will have to be given to non revenue sport athletes.

One additional note about moving Rutgers to the Midwest if the B1G ends up taking 3 ACC schools - the Domers wouldn't have an annual game within easy reach of the subway alums/bandwagon fans, but hey, they can't have everything.

 

[NUera]

With the large number of games you propose, what kind of money do you think the players should be paid? $5,000, 10,000, 20,000, more?

What are you talking about? They should be happy with the chance to keep playing a game they love, being BMOC and getting a degree (not to mention the awesome advantages that come with that)! /s

 

[jimmyNU]

Anyone else want Notre Dumb to be without a chair when the music stops?

Desperately.

 

[NUCat320]

As I read these threads about national championships and playoffs and 48-team super conferences, I do start to wonder what Northwestern brings that Ga Tech or Ok State or Utah or BYU or Boise or the good FCS program from the Dakotas or Kansas or K-State couldn’t do better.

As we’ve learned, ‘tradition’ and ‘we were there first’ doesn’t much matter, and, as we all know, Michigan and Wisconsin and Iowa own the Chicago market more than NU.

As much as I hate to see Indiana State and Eastern Illinois on NU schedules, I’d really hate it if they were conference opponents.

 

[hdhntr1]

As I read these threads about national championships and playoffs and 48-team super conferences, I do start to wonder what Northwestern brings that Ga Tech or Ok State or Utah or BYU or Boise or the good FCS program from the Dakotas or Kansas or K-State couldn’t do better.

As we’ve learned, ‘tradition’ and ‘we were there first’ doesn’t much matter, and, as we all know, Michigan and Wisconsin and Iowa own the Chicago market more than NU.

As much as I hate to see Indiana State and Eastern Illinois on NU schedules, I’d really hate it if they were conference opponents.

Under a pure mercenary model NU would be toast but as a charter member of the BIG I thought that the bylaws of the conference prevent us from being kicked out

 

[Alan Smithee]

Under a pure mercenary model NU would be toast but as a charter member of the BIG I thought that the bylaws of the conference prevent us from being kicked out

We could be kicked out for consistent failure to follow league bylaws or rules, as Michigan was in the early days, but that’s it. So no worries there. It’s not a threat.

Top schools leaving us behind for another super conference is a different possibility, but one made much less likely by the B1G’s place in the hierarchy.

 

[NUCat320]

Under a pure mercenary model NU would be toast but as a charter member of the BIG I thought that the bylaws of the conference prevent us from being kicked out

I’m assuming bylaws are pretty easy to change if a two-thirds majority decides that Michigan’s got Chicago covered just fine.

 

[willycat]

What are you talking about? They should be happy with the chance to keep playing a game they love, being BMOC and getting a degree (not to mention the awesome advantages that come with that)! /s

As most intelligent folks here believe that the players/workers should be paid. That's exactly what I'm talking about!

 

[Alan Smithee]

I’m assuming bylaws are pretty easy to change if a two-thirds majority decides that Michigan’s got Chicago covered just fine.

70%, so that’s a mathematical quibble, but I think getting to that would actually be quite difficult.

 

[hdhntr1]

70%, so that’s a mathematical quibble, but I think getting to that would actually be quite difficult.

There would be a bunch of programs figuring they would be next

 

[GECat2]

This makes my head hurt.

 

[Alan Smithee]

There would be a bunch of programs figuring they would be next

Exactly.

 

[boonman1]

Desperately.

I would love it !

 

[jne381]

Top schools leaving us behind for another super conference is a different possibility, but one made much less likely by the B1G’s place in the hierarchy.

This is exactly right. If OSU and Michigan are making more than Alabama and Florida, why would they want to leave a conference in order to help those schools make as much as them, even if it is more than they make already.

I believe the major driver is not to make the most money, but to make sure they make more money than the competitors, so as not to be relegated to a second tier. It is an arms race where the weapons are money.

 

[Well cataloged]

This is exactly right. If OSU and Michigan are making more than Alabama and Florida, why would they want to leave a conference in order to help those schools make as much as them, even if it is more than they make already.

I believe the major driver is not to make the most money, but to make sure they make more money than the competitors, so as not to be relegated to a second tier. It is an arms race where the weapons are money.

Jason Gay's description of Big Ten football games (Wall St Journal, July 2-3, 2022):

"[USC and UCLA] are not doing this because they enjoy football games that go punt, punt, field goal, halftime, punt, punt, interception, punt, fumble, punt, punt, field goal. (You have not felt a thrill until you've experienced the Big Ten thrill of looking up at the scoreboard late in the third quarter and realizing neither team has crossed midfield since last Thursday.)"

Elsewhere in this most entertaining piece: "College sports are so shameless that when anyone else does anything shameless in the world, they have to pay college sports a sizable royalty."

 

[NJCat]

Jason Gay's description of Big Ten football games (Wall St Journal, July 2-3, 2022):

"[USC and UCLA] are not doing this because they enjoy football games that go punt, punt, field goal, halftime, punt, punt, interception, punt, fumble, punt, punt, field goal. (You have not felt a thrill until you've experienced the Big Ten thrill of looking up at the scoreboard late in the third quarter and realizing neither team has crossed midfield since last Thursday.)"

Elsewhere in this most entertaining piece: "College sports are so shameless that when anyone else does anything shameless in the world, they have to pay college sports a sizable royalty."

Gay knows of what he writes, as he is a Wisconsin grad......

 

[NU Houston]

Jason Gay's description of Big Ten football games (Wall St Journal, July 2-3, 2022):

"[USC and UCLA] are not doing this because they enjoy football games that go punt, punt, field goal, halftime, punt, punt, interception, punt, fumble, punt, punt, field goal. (You have not felt a thrill until you've experienced the Big Ten thrill of looking up at the scoreboard late in the third quarter and realizing neither team has crossed midfield since last Thursday.)"

Elsewhere in this most entertaining piece: "College sports are so shameless that when anyone else does anything shameless in the world, they have to pay college sports a sizable royalty."

"Do you know what Northwestern is? It’s like Stanford, just let them tell you."

"Starting in 2024, two signature Pac-12 programs will ditch the Pacific for the frozen tundra and schedule-padding victories over Illinois."

 

[JournCat]

or what Warren and the rest over at B1G HQ should be strategizing for (along with Fox).

The B1G is in great shape if they stand pat at 16 , (barring any additional moves by the SEC), and would be ecstatic if they finally are able to convince ND (due to the quickly changing CFB landscape of having 2 dominant conferences) to join the conference with 1 additional school (top choices would likely be UNC or Stanford - the Domers probably will have a hand in who gets picked); Stanford really only being on the list because they are a traditional rival for ND).

While limiting it those 18 schools may maximize payoffs for the near term, it's kinda an unwieldy number with the LA schools being relegated to a far away outpost.

To offset that, can go up to 20 schools by adding Washington and Oregon, but apparently those 2 are seen as "tweeners" by the B1G FO when it comes to adding revenue.

While this may seem counterintuitive, adding 6 more schools to bring the total to 24 may be the answer.

With 24 schools, can have 4 divisions (with mostly traditional geographic rivalries) of 6 schools with each school playing 5 teams from its own division, 6 teams from another division and 1 protected rivalry to make up a 12 game season schedule (so NO OOC games).


Atlantic
Rutgers
Maryland
Penn State
North Carolina
Notre Dame
?

Midwest
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
?

Heartland
Northwestern
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska


Pacific
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon
Washington
?


While geographically ND fits in with either the Midwest or Heartland division (would make things a lot easier), the Domers have long resisted being identified with that region, so they likely would insist on being in the Atlantic (where the most Domers fans live/live nearby and where they would get to continue playing against a couple of their former ACC colleagues).

The 3 realistic options out of the ACC for the 6th spot in the Atlantic would be UVA, Dook and UMiami.

Out of the 3, UMiami is the only traditional football power, but they have struggled in getting even close to what they once were.

While UMiami would further help open up the rich recruiting base that is the state of Florida, the Miami fan base isn't exactly big and they tend to be a fickle lot; plus UMiami would really be on an "island" by itself and a big part of the argument in expanding to as many as 24 schools is to have some sort of regional connection for each division.

That leaves it btwn UVA and Dook.

UVA has more the traditional profile of a B1G school - being the state flagship university, but while its men's BB program has had a certain level of national success, it's not Dook basketball.

Otoh, UVA's FB program has more potential to be consistently competitive (Virginia has a decent recruiting base) and would really secure the greater DC metro area for the B1G while also keep geographic continuity.

But as much as I despise Dook (while having a fondness for UVA), Dook BB is Dook BB and including UNC's biggest rival would likeky make them happier(?); but maybe the UNC fan base would love seeing Dook being relegated to 2nd tier status.

For the Pacific division - not really any compelling choices left, but the choice is probably btwn Arizona and Colorado w/ maybe an outside shot for Cal (altho 2 schools in the Bay area would be overkill).

AZ has the best program of all 3 in men's BB, but BB really isn't a driver in these decisions (otherwise, CBB blueblood and reigning national champ Kansas would have been snapped up), and maybe it would be best for the B1G to let the SEC have their choice of the AZ schools (more on that later).

Colorado has had the most success in FB, but that was decades ago and they have really struggled to even attain relevance in the PAC.

The biggest ? when it comes to the 6th member is for the Midwest division.

If the Domers were willing to head to a division that was a geographic fit, then you could stick them in the Heartland division and move Illinois over to the Midwest (this way, can then add both UVA and Dook to the Atlantic), but don't see that happening.

There really isn't any school that fits the B1G criteria close by, so this leaves additional geographic shuffling.

One option would be to add both UVA and Dook to the Atlantic and ship Rutgers to the Midwest (would no longer be wholly accurate, but then again, the B1G has long ceased in having 10 members).

Another option would be adding 2 more schools from the PAC with one of them being Colorado with the Buffs reuniting with the Huskers in the Heartland division and moving Illinois to the Midwest.

The latter of the 2 options is cleaner geographically, but think adding 2 ACC schools brings more to the table.

You could do a nice 10-game schedule with this — every team plays the 5 members of their division and then the three teams that finished in the same place the year before, which in theory would create the big-name matchups everyone is seeking. And then leave two games at the conference’s discretion to set up more good games for TV.

 

[Deeringfish]

A 24 school conference like this would cover pretty much every major metro market outside the deep South and SW.

ND would bring the Boston market and there are plenty of B1G alums living in that area.


Atlantic
Maryland
Penn State
North Carolina
Notre Dame
UVA
Dook

Midwest
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Rutgers

Heartland
Northwestern
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska

Pacific
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon
Washington
Colorado/Cal?


With 24 schools, can have your own playoffs with the winner of each division and 2 wild cards (with the top 2 seeds getting byes) with the B1G champ meeting the SEC champ in the college equivalent of the Super Bowl.

Now, this would be predicated on the SEC also expanding to 24 schools - which is why left the AZ schools as options for the SEC dwindle after Clemson, FSU and UMiami (VaTech and NC State also being candidates).

FS1 and ESPN would rotate televising the championship game.game .

But that's not all.

Would also borrow a page out of European football and have a lesser tournament for the next 4-6 teams - which would basically replace lesser bowl games.

The current bowl system (esp. the lesser bowl games) is a rip off for schools and conferences.

After all the travel expenses and guaranteeing ticket sales, a school could be in the deficit for going to a bowl.

The ones who make out big time are the handful of men who run those bowl games (and it's a nice payday for really not much work).

All that $$ should be going to the conference and its member achools.

Likewise, the winner of the 4-6 team tournament on the B1G side would meet its SEC counterpart for bragging rights or can change things up and have a single, larger tournament involving schools from both conferences (this may make things more interesting for the 2nd tier playoffs).

This will help keep the interest of the fan bases of schools which had nice seasons (say, an 8 win season), but missed the playoffs - as well as providing more programming for TV networks and streaming sites.

I like this idea. One thing that makes college football so popular is that so many people want to watch so many teams. A bigger tent keeps the whole nation engaged. It's about the money but one reason there is so much money is that so many people feel invested. Cut out too many people and ten years down the line you might not have so much money.

 

[No Chores]

As most intelligent folks here believe that the players/workers should be paid. That's exactly what I'm talking about!

No. Besides, like you, Nuera is a big union guy, and he was just being facetious. We don't need unions and we don't need to pay our players. Exhibit A: the 2023 football recruiting class. If either of you would like to argue about this, please be in touch with Jack Cvercko.

 

[stpaulcat]

With 24 schools, can have your own playoffs with the winner of each division and 2 wild cards (with the top 2 seeds getting byes) with the B1G champ meeting the SEC champ in the college equivalent of the Super Bowl.

Now, this would be predicated on the SEC also expanding to 24 schools - which is why left the AZ schools as options for the SEC dwindle after Clemson, FSU and UMiami (VaTech and NC State also being candidates).

FS1 and ESPN would rotate televising the championship game.game .

But that's not all.

Would also borrow a page out of European football and have a lesser tournament for the next 4-6 teams - which would basically replace lesser bowl games.

The current bowl system (esp. the lesser bowl games) is a rip off for schools and conferences.

After all the travel expenses and guaranteeing ticket sales, a school could be in the deficit for going to a bowl.

The ones who make out big time are the handful of men who run those bowl games (and it's a nice payday for really not much work).

All that $$ should be going to the conference and its member achools.

Likewise, the winner of the 4-6 team tournament on the B1G side would meet its SEC counterpart for bragging rights or can change things up and have a single, larger tournament involving schools from both conferences (this may make things more interesting for the 2nd tier playoffs).

This will help keep the interest of the fan bases of schools which had nice seasons (say, an 8 win season), but missed the playoffs - as well as providing more programming for TV networks and streaming sites.

Geographically, this is the way it lays out, with East and West more or less straddling the Mississippi River. If NU is gonna play with the big boys, we gotta play with the big boys.

Atlantic
Maryland
Rutgers
North Carolina
Penn State
UVA
Duke

Mideast
Northwestern
Notre Dame
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana

Midwest
Purdue
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska

Pacific
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon
Washington
Colorado/Cal?

If it is 5 teams per division, this is the way it should lay out:
Atlantic
Maryland
Rutgers
Penn State
UVA
Duke

Mideast
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue

Midwest
Northwestern
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota

Pacific
Nebraska
USC
UCLA
Stanford
Oregon or Colorado

Or two 10 division teams combining Atlantic and Mideast, and Midwest and Pacific.

If it is 4 teams per division, this is the way it should lay out:
Atlantic
Maryland
Rutgers
Penn State
Ohio State

Mideast
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue

Midwest
Northwestern
Illinois
Wisconsin
Minnesota

Pacific
Nebraska
Iowa
USC
UCLA

Or two 8 division teams combining Atlantic and Mideast, and Midwest and Pacific.

Geograohy tells the tale.

That was fun. Good luck B1G.

 

[Katatonic]

Geographically, this is the way it lays out, with East and West more or less straddling the Mississippi River. If NU is gonna play with the big boys, we gotta play with the big boys.

Mideast
Northwestern
Penn State
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana

Midwest
Purdue
Illinois
Wisconsin
Iowa
Minnesota
Nebraska

Going to disagree.

NU is closer to Wisky and Iowa and they see the Cats as being more a rival than the pumpkinheads - who are a BB school and are closer to IU and Purdue (2 other BB schools).

Heck, these days, I'll bet Manny and Nebby see the Cats as being more of a rival.

Putting dOSU, PSU, UM and even MSU all in one division makes things too unbalanced.

Plus the majority of PSU alums live along the NE corridor and a lot of their fan base wished they had joined the ACC instead of the B1G.

Aside from having more competitive balance, have to keep the big dogs (dOSU, PSU, UM, ND and USC mostly happy; at this juncture, pretty safe to say that Neb has lost their big dog status).

Even with 2 wildcards, having dOSU, PSU, UM and MSU all in one division is going to make it a lot tougher for that division to get 2 teams to the playoffs.

Can't see those schools agreeing to that.

Plus, schools like Wisky Iowa and Minny see it vital for them to play in Evanston, so that they can better recruit the Chicago-land talent.

If it weren't for the rivalries built up with Wisky and Iowa (and to a lesser extent Nebby and Minny) and let's face it (an easier path to the playoffs) having the Cats regularly face off with the East Coast schools would be good for NU, as the East Coast is still the major source of top academic students.

 

[stpaulcat]

Going to disagree.

NU is closer to Wisky and Iowa and they see the Cats as being more a rival than the pumpkinheads - who are a BB school and are closer to IU and Purdue (2 other BB schools).

Heck, these days, I'll bet Manny and Nebby see the Cats as being more of a rival.

Putting dOSU, PSU, UM and even MSU all in one division makes things too unbalanced.

Plus the majority of PSU alums live along the NE corridor and a lot of their fan base wished they had joined the ACC instead of the B1G.

Aside from having more competitive balance, have to keep the big dogs (dOSU, PSU, UM, ND and USC mostly happy; at this juncture, pretty safe to say that Neb has lost their big dog status).

Plus, schools like Wisky Iowa and Minny see it vital for them to play in Evanston, so that they can better recruit the Chicago-land talent.

If they're gonna be fair, it must be based on geography. Playing politics with who should play who based on rivalries or tradition won't cut it in a super league. Base it on geography alone and let things shake out.

 

[Katatonic]

^ Well, that really depends on what geographic parameters one is using.

Like had said, NU is closer to Wisky, Iowa, Minny and Nebby than UI is to those schools, much less PU.

Plus, as we have seen/are seeing - it's the big dogs that are driving what happens in the college football landscape.

You really think dOSU, which contemplated going independent, is going to be OK with having a tougher road to the playoffs than USC or ND, 2 schools that it was instrumental in bringing into the conference (on the assumption that the Domers join)?

Esp. if the playoff schools get to keep the bulk of PO revenue?

Heck if dOSU, PSU, UM and MSU are going to play each other every year, they mind as well break off along with USC, ND, and Wisconsin and join the SEC.

 

[stpaulcat]

^ Well, that really depends on what geographic parameters one is using.

Like had said, NU is closer to Wisky, Iowa, Minny and Nebby than UI is to those schools, much less PU.

Plus, as we have seen/are seeing - it's the big dogs that are driving what happens in the college football landscape.

You really think dOSU, which contemplated going independent, is going to be OK with having a tougher road to the playoffs than USC or ND, 2 schools that it was instrumental in bringing into the conference (on the assumption that the Domers join)?

Esp. if the playoff schools get to keep the bulk of revenue?

Heck if dOSU, PSU, UM and MSU are going to play each other every year, they mind as well break off along with USC, ND, and Wisconsin and join the SEC.

Like I said, geography is the only to make it fair, and let things sort out from there.

However, do you remember Manuel from Fawlty Towers?-- "I know nah-sing."

 

[Katatonic]

^ What makes the geography of the Mississippi river (which, btw, changes), an entirely arbitrary metric, the decider of fairness? Lol

Esp. since Evanston is located west of West Lafayette, so don't know why you would move Purdue over when geographically, they belong with Indiana.

And your entire geography argument goes out the window by sticking the Domers in the Atlantic and not Penn State.

Having some sort of competitive balance (while trying to preserve geographic rivalries) is what actually makes things fair.

Have you seen a map of the SEC recently?

There's a reason why Missouri is in the East and not the West (which is where they belong based on geography).

Vandy is also west of Auburn.

Also, numerous conferences have gotten rid of division winners meeting in the championship in order to get the 2 "best" (most attractive for TV viewership) schools more regularly as the matchup.

 

[stpaulcat]

^ What makes the geography of the Mississippi river (which, btw, changes), an entirely arbitrary metric, the decider of fairness? Lol

Esp. since Evanston is located west of West Lafayette, so don't know why you would move Purdue over when geographically, they belong with Indiana.

And your entire geography argument goes out the window by sticking the Domers in the Atlantic and not Penn State.

Having some sort of competitive balance (while trying to preserve geographic rivalries) is what actually makes things fair.

Have you seen a map of the SEC recently?

There's a reason why Missouri is in the East and not the West (which is where they belong based on geography).

Vandy is also west of Auburn.

Also, numerous conferences have gotten rid of division winners meeting in the championship in order to get the 2 "best" (most attractive for TV viewership) schools more regularly as the matchup.

First of all, the SEC is the mindless conference--nothing matters except what the boosters want to pay for. Geography is not a concept they would understand, except that they probably know they are south of the Mason-Dixon Line, and they may be aware the that Kudza grows there.

That was an oops, should be Penn State in the Atlantic and ND in the Mideast. But F*** ND, and Penn State for that matter. As you see, this is complicated.

 

[Katatonic]

Don't know if you are continuing to argue for the sake of trying to have a debate when there isn't much of one.

You already had ND as an exception to your (inane) geographic criteria, so what's another?

Except, NU being in the Heartland wouldn't be an exception.

The schools I had listed in the Heartland are all west of Lake Michigan; Purdue is south of Lake Michigan.

Makes absolutely zero sense for Wisky and Minny fans (and for that matter, Iowa and Nebby fans) to drive thru/by Chicago to get to West Lafayette.

Iowa City and Lincoln are a straight shot west on I80 from Chicago.

As for the SEC, pretty sure the powers that be in that conference had to be fairly smart in order to build what is currently the #1 conference when it comes to revenue and by far the most successful conference on the field.

They did what they did in order to have the best (and fairest) competitive balance while trying to keep the most important rivalries together.

As it just so happens to turn out, the additions of UT and OU make the geographic split a lot easier, while keeping the competitive balance (basically move Bama and Auburn to the East and Missouri to the West)

But with further expansion, things would get more complicated.