Silence the dissension. It's our way or the high way. Information is dangerous in the hands of the common folk. C'mon man!
The Problem of Fitz
- Thread starter Turk
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Not really, he has created a privately owned corporation. Don't think it's gonna change soon.
If it’s a joke, it’s not funny. If I wanted to read writers who pick against us with 100% confidence I’d go to the other B1G boards.
I know I had some doubts about the WLP podcast, but at least they’re self admitted Purple blooded Cats who will always have a positive bias. I’d rather listen to them than read articles about how we’re going to lose every week on our own fan board.
A lot to unpack here. Until it’s proven otherwise, I’ll assume mikefitz is a ND or Iowa fan in Wildcats clothing.
And I don’t crap all over the program. I tell it like it is. I posted a prediction that we’d go 7-5 this year before I saw the crap that our new DC rolled out, and also the injuries. Also we talk about how the OL needs to improve ever year. Which we’ve been saying for 16 years.
There appears to be an echo chamber in Evanston as people idolize Fitz, and I get why that is. We clearly need changes, not more yes men who drool over getting dominated in Indianapolis and then going 3-9. Maybe the other fellas are afraid of upsetting the apple cart or to question a former coach, but I’m not.
And now we’ve again lost all momentum. Until we can consistently challenge and beat the B1G powers - namely OSU, Michigan, PSU, and MSU (I guess), we’ll be an also ran. Fitz is 3-29 or something against the Big 3, and 5-9 against MSU. Why are our fans satisfied with that after his predecessor beat every B1G team and won a championship in his second year? And after Barnett did the impossible?
I have a masterpiece coming about what I predict for the future of the program with three likely outcomes. I’ll share it on the free board with the rest of the hoi palloi. Get your popcorn ready!
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Give Lou and the mods credit: they err on the side of caution and don’t ban liberally. I’m free to post and share my opinions on NUFB and can handle the heat. (Although it’d be more fun if more OT threads were allowed…)
I enjoy the exchanges, and agree that less would often be more. But this season feels like a new low, and Turk and his buddy Ned may be right that the buddy hire route is the wrong one.
I don’t think there are too many people “satisfied” with our inability to consistently break through into the upper echelon of the B1G (or with craptastic seasons like 2019 or 2021), more like “understand that it is extremely difficult to win consistently at NU and Fitz is uniquely positioned to be head coach at Northwestern.”
You don’t have to look any further than the respective career arcs of Barnett and Walker for proof. Yes Barnett “did the impossible” in getting the purple to Pasadena, but we were right back at the bottom of the conference with an 0-fer in 1998 (ECat and all his caterwauling about how Barnett’s recruits won a B1G title under Walker isn’t terribly relevant and largely built on hypotheticals). Walker went from 10th in 1999 to T-1st in 2000 right back down to two consecutive T-10th seasons in 2001 and 2002.
We’ve seen a similar “peaks and valleys” career arc with Fitz with the primary difference Fitz’s lack of B1G titles. We can rehash all the old arguments if you’d like, but I equate Fitz’s two B1G West titles much closer to the 1996 and 2000 titles given that (1) our conference record was as good or better in 2018 and 2020 than in 1996 and 2000 and (2) both 1996 and 2000 were split titles with neither subject to the conference title game construct. Barnett’s 1995 title is pretty much unassailable in this context, though Fitz might’ve had just a little bit to do with that title as well.
So... yes this season absolutely sucks and it seems a fool’s errand to expect Fitz to make significant changes headed into 2022, but on the whole Fitz has been very good for NU and has a longer leash than pretty much any other head coach would/should have in trying to right the program.
The entire B1G is 4-78 against OSU in the last decade. Regardless of any arm-waving people do here, or Fitz does, for that matter, we simply do not aspire to be OSU. "Beat' them, yes. "Be" them, no. We are, and will remain, a world class university that happens to educate student athletes. Others may differ, but I have no interest in following an NFL farm team.
That said, the MSU, Ped State and Mich records need to be better. These teams are not that good, year over year. We've had ample opportunities to win games against all of them, and failed.
Finally, the performances in 2019 and 2021 are inexcusable, especially this year. The worst manager I ever had once said something very wise to me: "if our team members are not meeting their goals it's because we (as senior managers) have failed them". I don't want to get vertigo on the coaching carousel, particularly this year, I just want some accountability on the part of the staff.
Then there won't be significant changes in the W-L record either. We've already seen what the new coordinators can do and it's not enough. Recruiting will suffer and NU will suddenly be all the way back from whence it came.
Those with hope for next season please post now.
I believe this is the longest post you've ever made.
I agree about winning the West being roughly equivalent to "shared" titles pre-division split.
Not really disagreeing with you. I think there need to be some significant changes to move the needle on the program’s trajectory at the coordinator level, in recruiting, and in our strength and conditioning regime. I just don’t think that’s really in Fitz’s DNA.
“Best case” for changes IMO are a couple of older guys retire, say Heffner and/or Genyk, and are replaced with younger guys who can contribute more to recruiting.
The history of the last five years contradicts your conclusion.
I'm not saying that changes shouldn't be made. But our performance has varied so widely over the years under essentially the same regime and philosophy that I don't think you can conclude our record won't change unless the program changes.
I enjoy the banter too but will offer Lou and the mods no more rope. They have plenty, seem to have run it around their collective neck while they dance on the edge. Nope, like PF, I will call it as I see. And I’m not impressed with the results of their decisions. But like NU sports, my opinions are only the thoughts of one man. The question is whether their bosses are impressed - and I bet they fact analytics much more cuz…stats are for losers.
Oh, geez. The season is so bad that now we need to fire the moderators? Fans wanna know.I enjoy the banter too but will offer Lou and the mods no more rope. They have plenty, seem to have run it around their collective neck while they dance on the edge. Nope, like PF, I will call it as I see. And I’m not impressed with the results of their decisions. But like NU sports, my opinions are only the thoughts of one man. The question is whether their bosses are impressed - and I bet they fact analytics much more cuz…stats are for losers.
Let me the first to call for the firing of the ball boy.
Don’t worry. Bob will just threaten to fight and/or sue everyone on the way out.
I think the fact that JON is not only staying but that Fitz has included him in more things in the offseason and fitz doesnt see him as a problem at all is testament that Fitz is clueless and should be eliminated now. Terrible. Bob Davie 1.0
Well… we know all about your, um, tenuous relationship with facts, so should probably take this post as proof positive that O’Neil will get axed.
I suppose you prefer fist fights and gun battles...or just be real, you and your ilk would rather those that disagree, simply sit down and shut up because they ain't worth having an opinion. The civil court system was created to try to eliminate violence and enforce the laws and jurisprudence governing our society. Don't like it - find a society with rules that you like and move 🤷♂️ (just for gcg)
Be careful on that high horse of yours. You don’t get extra credit for falling on your own sword from up there.
You've got to be joking. So, the Jimmies and the Joe's had nothing to do with it?
Interesting that the only B1G title Walker won was with Barnett's recruits. I don't deny that he and Wilson had a huge part in bringing in the spread, but the cupboard was very far from bare.
I do understand cycles. And Barnett went through the same cycle that Alvarez went through following his initial Rose Bowl. It's understandable. What's happening at NU right now is not the same thing.
I think more likely our success over the last decade has been more due to Mike Hankwitz helming a salty defense and covering up the ineptitude on the offensive side of the ball than anything else. I don't see anything to suggest that we are going to overcome what is just piss poor performance on both sides of the ball, unless we fire some coordinators and bring some people in who can do a better job.
You wanna rehash this again? Sure.
The whole reason Walker and Wilson pioneered the spread is because the personnel Barnett left them weren’t good enough to run Walker’s preferred run-heavy offense.
And that same personnel turned around and finished T-10 two straight years once DC’s had a chance to plan better for the spread:
Still amazing and hilarious how many excuses you’re willing to make for Barnett that apparently don’t apply to other NU coaches.
Only thing you didn't mention is the bowl record on which Fitz is far ahead of Walk and difficult to compare with Barnett though obviously given length of time the bowl success has become a very strong point for Fitz.
We just had the biggest bowl win in the modern era in the last calendar year.
Reality is pretty clear that Fitz has had more consistent excellence than we've experienced since before the Dark Ages. Obviously the ups/downs of the last 4 years are tough, but we did have the same thing with Barnett after the '95-96 years.
I agree completely on the Big Ten titles aspect of the equation. 2018/2020 are absolutely as good years as 2000 for sure and I'd place 2020 above 1996 given the Citrus Bowl win and top 10 final rankings.
Outright division titles or shared with the Big Ten championship game berth (for as long as we have them) are as good as the shared titles that we had in '96 and '00 (since neither of those were Rose Bowl years).
Fitz will get a very long leash to turn this around as he's earned, especially after the success of the last 6 years. I agree we're not likely to see much change next year but if next year is a poor year, there will likely be staffing changes.
Not sure how many have read this 7-coach focus group of Illinois high school coaches. The unconditional praise of Fitz is sure to make some vomit, but translating the responses into the catastrophe we've witnessed this year, it sounds like the biggest problem is that he's not lobbying to get more exceptions to the academic requirements per class. They're too selective. He's tricked himself into actually believing he can do the impossible. Needs to be able to get at least 1-2 headliners per year, as long as they don't have behavioral problems, even if the academics aren't a fit. They can't fall to the level they have.
theathletic.com
Inside Illinois recruiting: Among Bret Bielema, Pat Fitzgerald, P.J. Fleck, Kirk Ferentz and others, who rules the state?
By all accounts, Bielema and his staff are walking the walk in trying to keep top athletes in-state. But Fitzgerald remains a popular pick.
theathletic.com
Partially correct. While the spread was helpful, we were loaded with talent. They were just young when Walker took over, and we finished T-10 because Walker lost the team with Wheeler's death.
Napo was a 1st round draft pick. All three LBs were on the draft boards until Silva had a career wrecking knee injury. We had multiple all B1G OL that were playing like Skoronski. We had two Heisman finalists in our RB room (one of whom Walker mysteriously tried to move to WR).
Not to mention all the talent that decommitted or transferred after Barnett left.
The cupboard was surely not bare. The spread is alive and well elsewhere in college football. We just choose not to run it the way we used to. And Walker began getting middling results because Barnett's recruits graduated.
The 2001 team was also plagued by turnovers (2 @ OSU which swung the game, 4 @ Indiana, 3 @ Iowa, and 4 against BGSU). Kustok & Anderson played out of their minds in 2000, and reverted to the mean in 2001. And they lost some key leaders on defense (Missouri, Blackmon, Collins) who were missed in a big way.
Wright was moved to WR to get talent on the field as there were two older, talented RBs ahead of him. They moved him to RB and Ayeni to safety in 2002 under the same principle (find a way to get all of your best talent on the field).
But yea Rashidi’s death really killed team morale and lingered for a few years.
The 2002 team still had a lot of NFL talent recruited by Walker. The Colby defense was just that bad and Baz and Wright should have had the starting jobs out of the gate. That team could have finished closer to 6-6 and been more competitive with less blowouts without those big three factors (2003-2005 were also hurt bigly by the Colby
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I remember we couldnt get to the hawaii qb even though howard, cofield, clark, castillo were doing colbys read and react. Thats 2 nfl DL, howard who was the best, and a 5th year senior yet colby insisted read and react. Didnt JON get his philosophy thru colby?
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This all suggests that a major current problem is recruiting. If we could get really good recruits then, why after all Fitz's success are we struggling to get them at certain positions now? It feels as if it is going to get worse with Hank a year in the past.
The recruiting has been gosh awful. Last place #14th in 2018 according to rivals but no better than 11th since then.
This year we are already 11th but will end up 14th since we are off the list. Trying to snatch Lehigh, ball state, and holy cross commits to fill out the class.
T
is that consistent with other programs, i.e., younger guys? I think of the best recruiter in the business is Vince Morrow but he is in his 50s. I think his name is Vince?? At any rate, down in Kentucky. I would say that recruiting is what has put Kentucky on the map and not necessarily because of Mark Stoops but because of his high school buddy's knack for recruiting and painting a vision for recruits.
Exceptions to every rule, but younger coaches are often hungrier to make their mark. Also think NU would benefit from a little more energy around the program, which is more likely to come from younger coaches.
Thank you! Encouraging to hear you say that. Let's hope Fitz wants to bring that energy. I am deeply concerned that his recent DC hire will bring the program to its knees, and he won't do anything about it soon enough.
Counterpoint: JON is the polar opposite from Hankwitz with regards to energy - he couldn’t stand still in his preseason media interview. And look how that worked out.
Give me calm, competent football experts that provide excellent coaching as coordinators and position coaches. Fitz and that strength coach with the biceps bring plenty of energy on their own.
I want the young recruiter types as my position coaches, the level-headed football expert as my coordinator.
I thought this thread was prescient and worth reviving with a well timed bump.
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