this board is interesting

[haywood jahblowme]

kids (who probably do read this board) are talked about within their game skills (or lack thereof) or how they can't contribute because they were never the answer, or they don't belong in the big ten, etc...

those same kids graduate (which is the goal at NU!) and leave to play at places where they probably belong from a skill standpoint (good for them!)

so those kids leave and instead of wishing them the best it becomes bashing the program. its disappointing those kids had red-shirt years at all - if they just graduated and left no one would care that their time is done. they did their part and got their degree.

hard to figure some posters out here

 

[NJCat]

kids (who probably do read this board) are talked about within their game skills (or lack thereof) or how they can't contribute because they were never the answer, or they don't belong in the big ten, etc...

those same kids graduate (which is the goal at NU!) and leave to play at places where they probably belong from a skill standpoint (good for them!)

so those kids leave and instead of wishing them the best it becomes bashing the program. its disappointing those kids had red-shirt years at all - if they just graduated and left no one would care that their time is done. they did their part and got their degree.

hard to figure some posters out here

Some? There's really only one.....

 

[rwhitney014]

kids (who probably do read this board) are talked about within their game skills (or lack thereof) or how they can't contribute because they were never the answer, or they don't belong in the big ten, etc...

those same kids graduate (which is the goal at NU!) and leave to play at places where they probably belong from a skill standpoint (good for them!)

so those kids leave and instead of wishing them the best it becomes bashing the program. its disappointing those kids had red-shirt years at all - if they just graduated and left no one would care that their time is done. they did their part and got their degree.

hard to figure some posters out here

Yeah, I mean, any personal bashing of the players is uncalled for. Some folks toe that line more than others.

The coaches should not be immune from criticism. They get paid a lot of money to be in a results-oriented business. It's hard to spin the last two seasons as anything but deeply disappointing, and we have very few sure things looking at the roster the next few seasons. Collins is going to get his chance to work through it. Hopefully he does.

 

[Fitz51]

Players have better things to do than read the lunatic ravings of a self-important group of mostly relatively old men.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Players have better things to do than read the lunatic ravings of a self-important group of mostly relatively old men.

i think you would be surprised. much like the NBA and the media - it all blends together

 

[freewillie07]

Some? There's really only one.....

This.

There is only one poster saying Ash’s departure is a sign of a program in ruins.

Everyone else realizes it’s fine. It’ll get better when NU inevitably picks up and transfer, and will get much better when NU picks up its first 2020 commit.

 

[IGNORE]

This.

There is only one poster saying Ash’s departure is a sign of a program in ruins.

Everyone else realizes it’s fine. It’ll get better when NU inevitably picks up and transfer, and will get much better when NU picks up its first 2020 commit.

This is odd. The OP opined about folks bashing the players. You are clearly referring to me. While I have said I don't think Ash is a legit ball handling starter in the B1G, I have haven't bashed Falzon. Moreover, my complaining about whether their departures are an indication of a troubled program in light of all the damn openings has been met with MANY posters claiming these two players sucked, can't get minutes and are bound for lessors schools were their talents might have use.

So, come out and call me what you want - but's let be real. Or, if it's easier, I can multiquote ALL the posts about the talents of Ash and Falzon according to the folks around here. Including the OP.

 

[IGNORE]

Some? There's really only one.....

Which one? All the names below posted unflattering (albeit true) remarks about Ash and / or Falzon or the NU athlete in general. Who is your big culprit?

Yeah, I mean, I'd call that an indictment on the state of the program from someone who's inside it. I'm not trying to say it's a bad blood situation.

The other reality is, he shot 31% from 3 this year. Take out the IU game and it's 24.5%. So it's not like he's been a sharpshooter, even though I believe he's capable of it if all systems are go.

Hopefully for Aaron's sake, he does a reverse Taylor and has a successful year, and the other theories you and Cappy have posited are indeed the correct ones.

Sorry, this isn’t horrible news. You have a player that got injured and frankly didn’t pan out. Not necessarily his fault, but no reason to bring him back to a rebuilding team.

this

I’m with you. Appreciate his service but objectively he wasn’t healthy and he stunk more than he shined

It’s an inconsequential transfer. Falzon, since his injury, simply isn’t mobile at all. Unless he’s knocking down 3’s, which he basically did in one game this year, he a very below average B10 player. No quickness or lateral movement. Plays smaller than his size inside. It’s a solid mutual parting. I hope he has a great senior year wherever he lands.

We have realize the scholarship is a four year deal not a five year deal. I think Collins sits down with him and they both go over the facts. Falzon, a really good guy, has been injured a great deal. He has no lateral movement, is limited in dribbling the ball, and does not appear to have much lift. All these injuries have limited his speed. He was very mediocre this year except for one game. The answer in my mind is simple, he should move on and in all probability transfer to lower major program in the Northeast, maybe a Siena or someone like that where he gets minutes. The younger guys get the minutes here.

It says that neither deserved a additional scholarship year at NU. You know sometimes recruits don't turn out as predicted. Sometimes there are injuries. Names Falzon and Ash ring a bell?

This is a big to do over nothing. Losing Ash and Falzon as grad transfers is not an issue as neither offered much value for next year, due to past performance, injury history, etc. All parties know this and that's why they're both leaving for places where they can better compete and contribute, likely at much lesser conferences.

If we were talking about Turner leaving as a grad transfer, which I assume was/is possible, then we'd have something to worry about with regards to the state of the program as he's a returning starter and arguably the only proven B1G caliber player on next year's roster. Yikes, that's scary to consider, next year is gonna be ROUGH. Hopefully, Kopp and Nance make giant leaps over the offseason and Beran plays up to or beyond his hype...

Good healthy programs don't have players making those kind of decisions. Neither of those kids is likely to make a living playing basketball. If the culture and the chemistry was right, those kids would be happy to stay with their team and contribute to the advancement of the program for one more season while getting themselves one year's worth of graduate level education from a top university in the world.

People are actually concerned because Ash is leaving?

Yes, Faze, don't you know it's now the time of year to develop misguided urgencies and carry them to as many posts as possible next season?

Wait until we're able to prove how much the Cats will miss the point guard who played limited minutes in an whopping 14 B10 games ... over the last two years.

How about the equally-limited 3-pt "specialist" who shot 22% from 3 outside of one game this year. He might be the difference for an NCAA team at NU next year. What is Collins thinking?!?!?

Let's not forget the shame of the missing 10th, 11th, 12th and 13th scholarships. We'll completely ignore that most of the first seven or eight players in the rotation would have trouble getting rotation minutes - much less starting - on an upper-level B10 team.

Ash, Falzon and the 13th scholarship - THESE are the real problems.

ever been just average at something (or younger and weaker) when you are surrounded by those who are much better? ever been a little brother while your older brother and his friends constantly pick on you and kick the crap out of you?

i have to imagine that is what its like for the NU guys

As I said, this just may be one big unfortunate coincidence and stretch of bad luck. Based on my experience, this many transfers, particularly at NU which doesn't historically see a lot of athletes transferring out, is indicative of some chemistry problems in the program. Certainly this observation would help partly explain the program's inability to not only build on but actually regress since its historic season a couple of years ago. At a minimum these transfers are indicative of several recruiting misses and/or player development issues that are crippling the program and figure to do so at least through next season.

Let me be clear, I like Chris Collins. I was a huge fan of his Dad as a player/coach and followed Chris' playing career from Glenbrook North to Duke. I was excited when Chris was hired and pleased to see the progress he was making. That being said, I am not as close to the basketball program as I am to the football program and perhaps that is enough to enable me to view the challenges the program has faced over the last couple of years with a level of objectivity that is escaping many of you. Anybody who has observed what has happened with the program on and off the court over the last couple of years who doesn't express even a modest level of concern needs to take the purple blinders off.

 

[TheC]

Yeah, I mean, any personal bashing of the players is uncalled for. Some folks toe that line more than others.

T

I think its a fine line.I don't think players should be bashed, but I think they have to expect to be criticized. It comes with the territory. You might argue that its better for them that they are criticized when they do poorly, rather than no one caring at all. Because we fans like to cheer and moan about our athletes, kids like this get full rides to places like NU. They get national tv exposure. They get the chance to one day make money playing a game. Because college athletics has become so big, I feel like players have to learn to take the good with the bad.

 

[rwhitney014]

I think its a fine line.I don't think players should be bashed, but I think they have to expect to be criticized. It comes with the territory. You might argue that its better for them that they are criticized when they do poorly, rather than no one caring at all. Because we fans like to cheer and moan about our athletes, kids like this get full rides to places like NU. They get national tv exposure. They get the chance to one day make money playing a game. Because college athletics has become so big, I feel like players have to learn to take the good with the bad.

Agreed, generally. Citing past stats, whether good or bad, and projecting future performance is fine. I don't care much for describing kids as wastes of scholarships or other rhetoric of that kind. No one here has a complete picture of what goes on behind closed doors.

 

[Fitz51]

No one here has a complete picture of what goes on behind closed doors.

Sex. A lot of sex.

 

[haywood jahblowme]

Sex. A lot of sex.

and then you get denied admission!

 

[Hungry Jack]

Which one? All the names below posted unflattering (albeit true) remarks about Ash and / or Falzon or the NU athlete in general. Who is your big culprit?

Good grief

 

[TheC]

and then you get denied admission!

Ah ha! Finally... a leak. Please tell me it was consensual.

 

[TheC]

Agreed, generally. Citing past stats, whether good or bad, and projecting future performance is fine. I don't care much for describing kids as wastes of scholarships or other rhetoric of that kind. No one here has a complete picture of what goes on behind closed doors.

A waste is kind of strong, but I think its fair to say someone was disappointing. I mean.... Benson came in a four star, big body from the area. There were lots of reason to be excited by him and he just never developed. Things happen, life goes on. But for now, it was disappointing that he wasn't a stud at NU.

 

[Fitz51]

There were lots of reason to be excited by him and he just never developed.

I disagree; his hair developed well.

 

[Max_Power]

Ah ha! Finally... a leak. Please tell me it was consensual.

You are definitely onto something here .....

 

[NJCat]

You are definitely onto something here .....

At least we know he can score.....

 

[IGNORE]

At least we know he can score.....

And also raising the notion of poor supervision and poor itinerary planning during the visit. Some places schedule officials full of illicit activities to land the big recruit. I would like to think NU would take care to plan the visit to prevent a young, impressionable and highly sought after recruit from getting himself in trouble. And if this did happen during the visit, I bet CCC manages the official visits differently now...meaning something could have been done differently.

Granted, I know no more than you, but I am not so quick to simply dismiss any accountability on CCC. Some call me a hater - I feel I am a realist. Until the full story emerges, taking such strong positions to assume the staff could not prevent the incident is a bit naive, IMHO.

 

[IGNORE]

Ah ha! Finally... a leak. Please tell me it was consensual.

In light of the lack of charges yet revocation of admission and essential blackball throughout the P5, if this truly is a revelation, then I suspect its a classic he said, she said. Probably a NU student that claims he went too far, he claims she was a willing participant, the authorities feel not enough evidence to charge and the school embarrassed by the episode.

The question I have is how other schools would know and decide to blackball. I would think a less scrupulous athletic factory would accept Lathon's version, the lack of charges and welcome him with open arms. I also suspect that two years at UTEP, no charges ever filed and Lathon transfers back into P5 world - not NU of course.

 

[Turk]

kids (who probably do read this board) are talked about within their game skills (or lack thereof) or how they can't contribute because they were never the answer, or they don't belong in the big ten, etc...

those same kids graduate (which is the goal at NU!) and leave to play at places where they probably belong from a skill standpoint (good for them!)

so those kids leave and instead of wishing them the best it becomes bashing the program. its disappointing those kids had red-shirt years at all - if they just graduated and left no one would care that their time is done. they did their part and got their degree.

hard to figure some posters out here

Something is wrong. To suggest that they leave NU to pursue academics elsewhere might be justified if it were just one kid in a program that simply isn't offered at NU. But Ash wasn't the exception. In the current context, one whole class decided to actually leave. All 3 had a part and weren't just going to be sitting on the bench next year so imo it is unlikely that Collins himself told them that he wasn't going to give them a 5th or 4th year. Every indication is that Collins would have wanted each of them back again.

As far as posters, neither of these 3 are program dealbreakers, so I don't think fans are out of line to subtly suggest that neither of them will be missed. Certainly, all of us wish them the best. And sure, we are happy they graduated but fans like me don't pay $8,000 a year just to support students to graduate. We want wins or at least competitiveness.

At the end of the day, I'm betting that Collins will be able to fill these gaps with players that are much more talented. Maybe I'm wrong, but Collins is making the big bucks and he knows a lot more than any of us. In each recruiting class, you highlighted how amazing Coach Collins classes have been.

Even last year you were astonished at his class. Along the way, strange and terrible things happened in the last minutes, like the Lathon thingy.

So, sit back and let's watch him do his magic again. Hopefully, the Admin won't reneg on any verbals.

Conclusion: For me, I had little hope of next year when I considered Benson, Ash, Falzon, and a few others who already showed that they aren't boafide starters. Now, with 3 openings, he has the chance to put together some grad transfers and go after more talented players. In a twisted way, this may end up for the good. Stay tuned!

Go Cats!

 

[NJCat]

Hopefully, the Admin won't reneg on any verbals.

You lost me here.

The administration has never "reneged" on a verbal. The only time a LOI signer hasn't come to NU it was his fault, not the administration.

Otherwise, good post.

 

[gradeck]

All 3 had a part and weren't just going to be sitting on the bench next year

I don’t think this is accurate. None of the players leaving had significant minutes in the past 3 years, and for good reason.

I’m sure they would have all played some, and maybe (but not definetly) Benson would have started, but none of those players showed they were likely to be key contributors next year.

And sure, we are happy they graduated but fans like me don't pay $8,000 a year just to support students to graduate. We want wins or at least competitiveness.

Even in a perfect alternate universe in which we have PG who stated all season as a freshman and Nance doesn’t get mono — I *still* think 2019-20 would be a rebuilding/transition year with Law and Pardon leaving.