I wouldn't disagree with that.
O'Neil struck me as a guy hated being in Evanston. It's clear he wanted nothing to do with program after he couldn't ride Esch anymore. His sideline demeanor was the absolute worst.
To the Twitter club ... I know you're watching ... You always are
- Thread starter Sec.112
- Start date
I wouldn't disagree with that.
O'Neil struck me as a guy hated being in Evanston. It's clear he wanted nothing to do with program after he couldn't ride Esch anymore. His sideline demeanor was the absolute worst.
Maybe...but he still had us in the NIT far quicker than his two successors (and with a pretty crappy team save one player). I think people forget that about him sometimes...
I think it's because we WANT to forget about him.
It WAS a crappy team besides one player. But that player was probably our best in school history. Possibly No. 2.
Another crazy thing people forget is that we were actually projected IN the NCAAs midway through the B10 season until we bombed the very last section of the season. It was really exciting until the late season collapse...nobody knew KO would only be around for one more season.
I get that, but the guy ran off several of own players (a few of which showed potential as freshman), because they couldn't stand him. It wasn't a tenable situation. I also think many underestimate how great Esch really was. If this team had Evan, NU would be in the tourney without even having to sweat selection Sunday, at least in my mind.
KO would be great at coaching robots.
Last edited:
So then you'd agree we hadn't really "arrived"? I would say the same with BC's short run with Jitim. It really wasn't until Shurna that we'd gotten to a point of solid foundation.
Each was incredible. NU fell apart post 'Hoosier Daddy' because everyone adopted the defensive approach that IU introduced in the second half of that game.
IU played a sagging 3-2, with two post guys bracketing him and the weakside wing sagging to further deny him the ball. Teams basically played a triangle-and-two, except the triangle was guarding a single guy, and the two had NU's four. And it worked!
Esch was so good. He didn't have a Big Ten-quality teammate to speak of.
What are you trying to accomplish here?
I never said "we've arrived". We didn't under KO, we didn't under Carmody and we haven't under Collins.
All I pointed out was we reached the level attained by 2015-16 squad in 2001-02 and in 2003-04 - one game short of the NIT. 2011 and I had 2 exchanges about it and it was over.
KO slightly passed that level before falling of a cliff without Esch to lean on. NU didn't even get close to sniffing the tournament until 2008-09 and 2011-12 (KO's 1998-99 squad fell apart in an eerily similar manner as Carmody's 2001-02 squad did). This year's team wasn't close to NCAAs either and received the same post season fate as the 2001-02 and 2003-04 editions. I'm simply using historical evidence.
EDIT: I'll do a better job of keeping information like this to myself in the future. It's apparently petty to point such things out (yes I know that response is snarky).
Peace.
Last edited:
Northwestern is just an below average program. I did think yo would get an NIT bid, but the comitee saw you what you were all about, a very average program. and really your future is not much brighter as every one else in the big ten is recruiting big time players that will only make them better. I see you as an 8th place team next year and for many more years.
Petty is throwing out "I'm sorry you hate Carmody so much!" like a petulant child because someone backed up the others' opinion. Just take some responsibility for you own actions, please.
Peace.
Dude!
Reread the darn thread. You insulted me for no reason. That's only reason I responded to you in the first place. I was pointing to an inaccuracy in wildcats2011's post. One that seemed important to the point he/she was trying to make. That's part of message board discussion.
This is so dumb and childish and honestly confusing.
My post (to wildcat2011):
"Took the previous regime 8 years to get to this point."
It actually took 2 seasons. NU just missed out at 16-13 (7-9, 6th BIG) in 2001-02
Your response:
Reread the darn thread. You insulted me for no reason. That's only reason I responded to you in the first place. I was pointing to an inaccuracy in wildcats2011's post. One that seemed important to the point he/she was trying to make. That's part of message board discussion.
This is so dumb and childish and honestly confusing.
My post (to wildcat2011):
"Took the previous regime 8 years to get to this point."
It actually took 2 seasons. NU just missed out at 16-13 (7-9, 6th BIG) in 2001-02
Your response:
Last edited:
And Ricky Byrdsong had KON beat by getting them there in year 1!!!
Honestly, though KON was a dumpster fire. Anyone, including my mom could have coached an NU team to the NIT with Evan Eschmeyer on the team. A dude that was recruited by the coach that preceded his predecessor.
How the hell did this turn into a Carmody thing?!?!
Virginia, I grudgingly somewhat agree with your direction. Yes, there's some leftover residue from the "whole thing." But it's not prevalent. For the most part, the discussion is reasonable and honest. There's only one jerkoff out here who's still carrying the flag, and everybody is ignoring him.
Now, you're going after ColumbusCat? Really?
Part of the evolution of the Carmody thing is that people need to be able to talk about that period of time without going nuts and CONSTANT repercussions. It's pretty obvious that some people can't carry the conversation reasonably, but there's not too many of them out here. And 98% (official number) of the few people out here who carry the Carmody flag are cool about it.
Then, there's you. And I say this as someone who often agrees with your position.
What is this: the second time in the last week you've engaged two or three people in Carmody b.s? I'll say the same thing to you that I would to a Carmody guy: It's been three years. You gotta let it go, man. People are allowed to have a little Carmody love.
One of the major reasons that circle jerk club was formed on Twitter was that none of them had the brains to ignore an unreasonable opposing opinion or an incorrect fact, and just let it be - especially when you're wrong on a regular basis (as most of us are). For them, it's pretty obvious the discussion got far away from enjoying the topic. It became about being correct, even to the point of changing opinions and flat-out lying. It never mattered that they wanted to influence people but lost so many people with their unreasonable approach LONG before running like sissies.
You gotta get out of that hole. People aren't listening including me. This stuff doesn't matter.
Some people here are pretty stupid (I have my moments). Some are pretty pissy (maaaaaaaybe I'm classified in that category
). Most of us know who those people are. It's not a state secret.
The most simple thing the circle jerk club never learned - it's amazing how quickly an incorrect opinion or some jerk disappears when you ignore a post.
Let people spin the Carmody years. Let people pretend the Patriot League is similar to the B10. Let people ignore the long list of Carmody weaknesses. What does it matter? Every Carmody statement doesn't need a rebuttal. We've got enough issues here in 2016.
Virginia, I grudgingly somewhat agree with your direction. Yes, there's some leftover residue from the "whole thing." But it's not prevalent. For the most part, the discussion is reasonable and honest. There's only one jerkoff out here who's still carrying the flag, and everybody is ignoring him.
Now, you're going after ColumbusCat? Really?
Part of the evolution of the Carmody thing is that people need to be able to talk about that period of time without going nuts and CONSTANT repercussions. It's pretty obvious that some people can't carry the conversation reasonably, but there's not too many of them out here. And 98% (official number) of the few people out here who carry the Carmody flag are cool about it.
Then, there's you. And I say this as someone who often agrees with your position.
What is this: the second time in the last week you've engaged two or three people in Carmody b.s? I'll say the same thing to you that I would to a Carmody guy: It's been three years. You gotta let it go, man. People are allowed to have a little Carmody love.
One of the major reasons that circle jerk club was formed on Twitter was that none of them had the brains to ignore an unreasonable opposing opinion or an incorrect fact, and just let it be - especially when you're wrong on a regular basis (as most of us are). For them, it's pretty obvious the discussion got far away from enjoying the topic. It became about being correct, even to the point of changing opinions and flat-out lying. It never mattered that they wanted to influence people but lost so many people with their unreasonable approach LONG before running like sissies.
You gotta get out of that hole. People aren't listening including me. This stuff doesn't matter.
Some people here are pretty stupid (I have my moments). Some are pretty pissy (maaaaaaaybe I'm classified in that category
). Most of us know who those people are. It's not a state secret.The most simple thing the circle jerk club never learned - it's amazing how quickly an incorrect opinion or some jerk disappears when you ignore a post.
Let people spin the Carmody years. Let people pretend the Patriot League is similar to the B10. Let people ignore the long list of Carmody weaknesses. What does it matter? Every Carmody statement doesn't need a rebuttal. We've got enough issues here in 2016.
I accept responsibility. Was yelling at julescat and brought up the 8 years it took to get to the NIT last time, and it all swirled. Mah b.How the hell did this turn into a Carmody thing?!?!
Virginia, I grudgingly somewhat agree with your direction. Yes, there's some leftover residue from the "whole thing." But it's not prevalent. For the most part, the discussion is reasonable and honest. There's only one jerkoff out here who's still carrying the flag, and everybody is ignoring him.
Now, you're going after ColumbusCat? Really?
Part of the evolution of the Carmody thing is that people need to be able to talk about that period of time without going nuts and CONSTANT repercussions. It's pretty obvious that some people can't carry the conversation reasonably, but there's not too many of them out here. And 98% (official number) of the few people out here who carry the Carmody flag are cool about it.
Then, there's you. And I say this as someone who often agrees with your position.
What is this: the second time in the last week you've engaged two or three people in Carmody b.s? I'll say the same thing to you that I would to a Carmody guy: It's been three years. You gotta let it go, man. People are allowed to have a little Carmody love.
One of the major reasons that circle jerk club was formed on Twitter was that none of them had the brains to ignore an unreasonable opposing opinion or an incorrect fact, and just let it be - especially when you're wrong on a regular basis (as most of us are). For them, it's pretty obvious the discussion got far away from enjoying the topic. It became about being correct, even to the point of changing opinions and flat-out lying. It never mattered that they wanted to influence people but lost so many people with their unreasonable approach LONG before running like sissies.
You gotta get out of that hole. People aren't listening including me. This stuff doesn't matter.
Some people here are pretty stupid (I have my moments). Some are pretty pissy (maaaaaaaybe I'm classified in that category
The most simple thing the circle jerk club never learned - it's amazing how quickly an incorrect opinion or some jerk disappears when you ignore a post.
Let people spin the Carmody years. Let people pretend the Patriot League is similar to the B10. Let people ignore the long list of Carmody weaknesses. What does it matter? Every Carmody statement doesn't need a rebuttal. We've got enough issues here in 2016.
And then I nitpicked Columbus for nitpicking you. I guess we're all to blame. lol
Hey, we all like Collins here, all think he's the right person at the right time -- so now it's time to focus on next season when we will make history.
I still wish we'd have played in one of the minor tournaments. Certainly seemed to have a lot of positives for a team who will be counting on younger guys next year.
My thought is that we relied on Demps A LOT down the stretch, as well as Olah. And neither are coming back.
Our entire roster next year will NOT have played in a postseason tournament. I think it would be important to get them some experience of doing so.
I still wish we'd have played in one of the minor tournaments. Certainly seemed to have a lot of positives for a team who will be counting on younger guys next year.
My thought is that we relied on Demps A LOT down the stretch, as well as Olah. And neither are coming back.
Our entire roster next year will NOT have played in a postseason tournament. I think it would be important to get them some experience of doing so.
I'm disappointed we're not playing in some-sort of post-season tournament, but I have to think the players and coaches decided on this together, so maybe they're ready to shift their focus on next season.
I like you, but why let it bother you what people NOT EVEN ON THIS BOARD are typing on the Internet? Is it just an issue because they are Northwestern affiliated people?
That's exactly why the Carmody vs. Collins argument is so ridiculous. O'Neill lucked into Esch. Esch should not have been there after 6 years. He was a Foster recruit. How exactly do you measure a coach's success at the worst major conference school for basketball? Everybody is a failure until we go to the tournament or win Big Ten titles.
Collins took over a program that required a lot of retooling. Carmody may have left the team in a better place as far as stability and reputation, but we did not have the horses in Collins Year One. Carmody inherited a really bad program but he had nice pieces from O'Neill and turne dit around quickly--before everything fell apart with Carmody's own recruits and he had to rebuild from his own disaster.
Again, I don't really think Collins > Carmody or Carmody > Collins at this point. Carmody's offenses were better; Collins' defense and recruiting are better. Neither one of them won anything of note here. No titles, no tourney. At least Collins still has a chance and I'm in his corner.
This program is SO far better off with Collins at the head of it (even missing NCAA and NIT) than any time I can remember. All because he is the right guy for this very difficult job. Really looking forward to next season and seeing what the off season might bring in the way of roster news. I hope that Law recovers well from his surgery (not a sure thing by any means) and that the new guys are great and that the young returnees get in a good summer of progress.
It's a reasonable question.
The first few times my name was involved ... eh. But the attitude just continues on and on - four, five, six times. And they never confront their issues directly - year after year.
Some of the names they use and how they do it is so disgusting - especially for a group that is so eternally wrong. For months this year, NU supposedly had no chance at the NIT. Anybody who considered it was laughable. Then suddenly in the first week of March ... time to reverse course.
So yea, I call them out. And suddenly all is quiet on the western front. Amazing how that always happens. Every year - the same gutless chicken sh*t. They're big talkers until someone speaks up.
I never said I was above this garbage. If that isn't obvious by now, I don't know what is.
I'm not excusing those folks, but imagine you are a big Northwestern fan but you really hate what they did to Bill and to an extent Shon.
If you're those guys, you root for the Cats but almost against them and God that's a psychological chore that I don't envy. I don't think you can really question that they're bona fide NU fans, but it's definitely more complicated for them.
The second you are so consumed by your negativity that you take joy in any negative, or actively root against a team, then you're no longer a fan of that team.
The Patriot League is not similar to the Big Ten. It is easier to win a conference tournament when you don't have NBA talent and neither do your opponents.
At the same time, if Goren predicted that Carmody would make the NCAAs before Collins, well, that's undeniably true. It does matter because the NCAAs matter. Is it fair to Collins? Nope.
Oh, I don't know about that! Let's say you are a Jets fan. During the Kotite years, you might have relished Richie falling on his face and it doesn't mean you ceased being a Jets fan.
You have to give them a modicum of credit for leaving here and not coming back when they feel they have something to gloat about. My understanding is they chose to leave permanently so they could talk amongst like-minded people. It was the Wildcat Report Great Schism!
I guess my advice is that if they chose to leave, then you should just ignore whatever they're doing in their church, er, Carmody Court.
I understand the concept, I just don't agree with the practice. Different strokes I guess.
One does not have to be constantly positive regarding everything, but to consistently look for the negative and be loud about it seems to defeat the purpose of being a fan. Oh well.
Except they still take constant shots at the posters here...literally all the time, knowing full well there won't be a rebuttal. It's childish.
Also, I'm with 2017, if you take pleasure in seeing the team lose, YOU ARE NOT A FAN.
The irony is that the first NU NCAA team will have at most 2 Carmody recruits, both in reserve roles. No one can say that Collins got NU to the NCAA's on the back of Carmody (like it could be reasonably argued that Walker did with Barnett for his B1G title and Byrdsong and KON did with Foster with their NIT appearances) when we get there. This is more of a Gary Barnett, flushing the past away to build anew approach, and perhaps the only way to really do it when you're going from the Dark Ages to the top.
Both in reserve roles.....except for the one who started all year.
CC will never get to the ncaas on the back of carmodys recruits. That part is true.... And you can add nit to that too.
I think it's doubtful he starts next year. Vic Law is coming back. Have you heard of him?
I'm actually a Sanjay fan. I think he's a great defender and should be brought in for significant minutes. He also is a far departure from the type of player and style that Carmody embodied. Defense, toughness, rebounding? Was that ever valued (or coached) under that gimmick offense regime? Tap? Probably more a reflection of your typical Carmody recruit, if Ajou and Turner weren't. And what kind of role your typical Carmody recruit would play on a Collins recruited roster.
This said to say Sanjay's gonna carry us on his back next year when we make the Dance, or that he did that in any game this year would be a stretch though.
Some bc recruits really puzzled me, insofar as they were such deviations from our model recruit type (coble, vedran, shurna, Moore, juice), etc.
Then there were ajou, Sanjay, even rowley, that just stood out. Although Nash was not a typical recruit and he was nothing short of great as a senior.
