Want some good insight into Pete Nance? Read

[T_Levine]

There is an article on ESPN.com about UNC basketball. Discusses two things wildcat fans can relate:

1. Guards that don’t pass and dribble dribble dribble

2. The Pete Nance deficiencies. While I would love to have him on the cats today. He isn’t the savior and I might suggest collins got all he could out of Nance. And I will add, if nance hits his ft last year we win at least one more game and if he could play at another level we would have won 2-3 more.

I think he will make some good money playing overseas but sadly he isn’t his father or brother on the court.

 

[Catreporter]

Not only the missed free throw vs. Maryland but the missed 1-and-1 in the final minute of a tie game with Penn State after which they scored the winning basket. Win those two and last season could have taken on a different trajectory. Pete was a class act at NU, left with his degree, and I wish him well, but he is not an alpha dog that can lead a team to a championship. He's a nice piece for UNC though if the rest of the team is as good as advertised. So far, they have struggled a bit,

 

[GatoLouco]

From a very limited amount of viewing of the Tar Heels:

1) Those guards are both "score first" guys right now. Don't know if that was always the same, but they clearly don't have much interest in getting others involved. They don't even realize the team's best player is, IMO indisputably, Bacot.
2) There's no decent backup to Bacot. It ends up being Nance, and he is just not a good 5
3) Nance plays like the team is elite and he is the new guy not wanting to ruffle any feathers. Not wanting to disrupt a good thing. Understandable and I know Nance has never been the guy who wants to take over. But the team is not elite and Pete is more than capable of being an option and not just a role player.

They have time to fix this. Good test to see if Davis is a decent coach who can get it all under control. Talent is there for sure.

 

[GatoLouco]

The way we tend to talk about Nance around here has some similarities with how we talk about Buie.

He was a GREAT player at NU, not even used in his natural positions. Amongst the best we ever had. Even if we don't have a brilliant past, that is still something very admirable.

Just like with Buie, we tend to focus on what could be, what the weaknesses are. And overlook both Nance and Buie are, all things considered, pretty darn good players, especially for NU standards.

 

[Sec.112]

You can see the surprise and apprehension about Nance all over the place as the world discovers more about his game.

One writer in The Athletic talked about the disappointment in Carolina with the hope Nance, "get more comfortable as the season goes on just like Brady Manek did."

Another Athletic writer highlighted how Nance "still needs some time to develop on-court chemistry with his new teammates."

A third writer comments, "they (UNC) are looking to replace the outside shooting and toughness they got from Brady Manek. Northwestern transfer Pete Nance has the former, but I’m not sure how much of the latter he provides."

In defense of Nance, the world is expecting him to be the second coming of Manek.

But there was a lot of "out-of-town stupid" in the assessment of Nance this summer.

 

[Jonny2TheP]

I am truly rooting for Pete Nance. While he was here, he gave us everything he had on the court, he grew his game, and he was a class act the entire time. I hold no grudge whatsoever for him transferring and trying something else.

All that said, I don't think this surprises most of us. He's a talented player that checks a lot of NBA boxes and he'll have some games that wow you sometimes, but he doesn't have that killer instinct. I am not going to go so far to say that "we are better without him", but I don't think his loss hurts us too much, which is pretty crazy considering the skills he brings to the table.

 

[Sec.112]

The question I'm asking myself is whether so far the Cats miss Young or Nance more. I'm not sure I have an answer.

For me, that says a lot about both players and their evolution at NU.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

There is an article on ESPN.com about UNC basketball. Discusses two things wildcat fans can relate:

1. Guards that don’t pass and dribble dribble dribble

2. The Pete Nance deficiencies. While I would love to have him on the cats today. He isn’t the savior and I might suggest collins got all he could out of Nance. And I will add, if nance hits his ft last year we win at least one more game and if he could play at another level we would have won 2-3 more.

I think he will make some good money playing overseas but sadly he isn’t his father or brother on the court.

From that ESPN+ article, ESPN asked a bunch of coaches what they thought was wrong with UNC...

"While none of them is in the locker room to see it firsthand, every coach immediately mentioned a visible lack of chemistry Carolina is playing with right now."

"Four out of five possessions, Love takes a shot or Davis dribbles around. Then Bacot gets a touch," one coach said. "It seems like they're just taking turns." (Buie and Audige)

"They don't go to Bacot enough; they expect him to get garbage stuff. He doesn't post hard because he knows they're not looking for him," another added. "They don't seem to be playing with the same level of care for whatever reason." (Nicholson)

"Hubert is begging them to play hard," one coach said. "Look at their offensive rebounding numbers, it's not what Carolina used to be. Bacot is the only one who does it." (thats got to be a shot at Nance)

"We know Love and Davis aren't passing. After a handoff or ball-screen, just hang on. Make them pass it. They don't want to pass it. And they're not shooting the ball great, Nance isn't shooting the ball great."

 

[NJCat]

The question I'm asking myself is whether so far the Cats miss Young or Nance more. I'm not sure I have an answer.

Young.

Verhoeven would be a nice 10 minute/game back-up to Beran. Young/Nicholson would be a nice 5 combo.

C'est la vie.

 

[Hungry Jack]

All of this talk about Nance's competitive makeup makes me think about how good Shurna was. He was fearless.

 

[HawkCat]

You can see the surprise and apprehension about Nance all over the place as the world discovers more about his game.

One writer in The Athletic talked about the disappointment in Carolina with the hope Nance, "get more comfortable as the season goes on just like Brady Manek did."

Another Athletic writer highlighted how Nance "still needs some time to develop on-court chemistry with his new teammates."

A third writer comments, "they (UNC) are looking to replace the outside shooting and toughness they got from Brady Manek. Northwestern transfer Pete Nance has the former, but I’m not sure how much of the latter he provides."

In defense of Nance, the world is expecting him to be the second coming of Manek.

But there was a lot of "out-of-town stupid" in the assessment of Nance this summer.

Some of the criticisms of Nance are justified. But as someone who has seen almost every UNC game this year (I live in N.C.), I will say that Nance has been the least of UNC's problems. Undisciplined guard play has been the No. 1 problem. The No. 2 problem has been nagging injuries to Bacot. Nance has been a bit inconsistent and has faltered at a few key moments, but he has been a relative bright spot. Not as good as Manek, but worthy of his starting role.

 

[Jonny2TheP]

Some of the criticisms of Nance are justified. But as someone who has seen almost every UNC game this year (I live in N.C.), I will say that Nance has been the least of UNC's problems. Undisciplined guard play has been the No. 1 problem. The No. 2 problem has been nagging injuries to Bacot. Nance has been a bit inconsistent and has faltered at a few key moments, but he has been a relative bright spot. Not as good as Manek, but worthy of his starting role.

I say this with the caveat of what I said earlier that I am a big Nance fan and am rooting for him...but wasn't "has faltered at a few key moments" kind of the issue when he was playing for the Cats too?

 

[hoosboot]

Some of the criticisms of Nance are justified. But as someone who has seen almost every UNC game this year (I live in N.C.), I will say that Nance has been the least of UNC's problems. Undisciplined guard play has been the No. 1 problem. The No. 2 problem has been nagging injuries to Bacot. Nance has been a bit inconsistent and has faltered at a few key moments, but he has been a relative bright spot. Not as good as Manek, but worthy of his starting role.

You're spot on with your assessment of UNC. The guard play is atrocious and guard play is what drives college basketball. The worst thing would be their terrible FG% if it weren't for the huge volume they take with that FG%, their poor effort on defense, and their complete disinterest in getting anyone else involved in the offense. Love is a preseason 2nd team All-American and he and Davis are averaging 40% from 2/25% from 3 on a combined THIRTY shots per game while Bacot (a preseason first team All-American) is averaging just over 8 shots per game. And people want to point to Pete Nance as the problem?

The problem with Nance isn't with Nance...it's with the expectations some people have for what they want him to be. Nance is giving UNC exactly what he always has given - around 13 points, 6 boards, 48% from 2, 35%+ from 3, and solid if unspectacular defense. His 3-point shooting has been worse so far compared to last year, but last year was the outlier for him. Nance wasn't a Top 50 recruit. He's among the lowest ranked recruits on the UNC roster. Nance wasn't brought in to be The Man. He was brought in to be a complimentary third or fourth option. Expecting Pete Nance to carry a UNC team that went to the national title game last year and brought back a large portion of that roster is a fool's errand.

 

[hoosboot]

I say this with the caveat of what I said earlier that I am a big Nance fan and am rooting for him...but wasn't "has faltered at a few key moments" kind of the issue when he was playing for the Cats too?

Among the many issues the Cats faced when Pete Nance was here, I wouldn't say that was among the biggest ones.

 

[T_Levine]

I the ink it’s safe to say, if we had a couple of Pete nance’s every year we would be happy. Class act. Great kid. Good ball player. Because of his skills and pedigree we all hoped for great player.

 

[Max_Power]

Not only the missed free throw vs. Maryland but the missed 1-and-1 in the final minute of a tie game with Penn State after which they scored the winning basket. Win those two and last season could have taken on a different trajectory. Pete was a class act at NU, left with his degree, and I wish him well, but he is not an alpha dog that can lead a team to a championship. He's a nice piece for UNC though if the rest of the team is as good as advertised. So far, they have struggled a bit,

He also had misses against Illinois down the stretch as well if I recall correctly in a tight game

 

[clarificationcat]

I the ink it’s safe to say, if we had a couple of Pete nance’s every year we would be happy. Class act. Great kid. Good ball player. Because of his skills and pedigree we all hoped for great player.

Yes. He was our best player last year and he improved every year. Just not a go-to scorer and not clutch. I think if we had the Audige of this year last year, we would have won at least a couple more conference games. Hard to win consistently when your 3 shoots 33 percent from the field and 25 percent from 3 and makes a fair amount of bad decisions. Especially when your other guards are not good shooters.

 

[phatcat]

There is an article on ESPN.com about UNC basketball. Discusses two things wildcat fans can relate:

1. Guards that don’t pass and dribble dribble dribble

2. The Pete Nance deficiencies. While I would love to have him on the cats today. He isn’t the savior and I might suggest collins got all he could out of Nance. And I will add, if nance hits his ft last year we win at least one more game and if he could play at another level we would have won 2-3 more.

I think he will make some good money playing overseas but sadly he isn’t his father or brother on the court.

Good guy, good player. If his name was Pete Schwartz, there would have been zero expectations or disappointment

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

Good guy, good player. If his name was Pete Schwartz, there would have been zero expectations or disappointment

Not true. If Pete Schwartz had the same ranking coming out of high school the expectations would have been no different.

 

[Sec.112]

Good guy, good player. If his name was Pete Schwartz, there would have been zero expectations or disappointment

I don't know. Any top-60 who scores less than 8 points a game in the conference in his first two years is pretty disappointing.

I wonder if Pete Schwartz is a top 100. Then maybe we lower our expectations.

 

[NUCat320]

Not true. If Pete Schwartz had the same ranking coming out of high school the expectations would have been no different.

He was four stars because he was named Nance. IIRC, he didn’t even do the AAU circuit until prior to his junior year.

 

[clarificationcat]

I don't know. Any top-60 who scores less than 8 points a game in the conference in his first two years is pretty disappointing.

I wonder if Pete Schwartz is a top 100. Then maybe we lower our expectations.

Who had him top 60? I just did a quick check and I saw 67 (Rivals), 79 (Scout) and 88 (247).

Since we recruit so poorly historically, I think our expectations are a little unrealistic. If you look at recruits from 50 to 100 that year (I must confess I don't recognize a lot of the names if they were outside the B1G or we didn't recruit them) and reranked them based on performance, I am guessing he would land in the 20-30 range. Doing a quick check of guys I recognize, it looks like 6 guys were great/really good (Oturu, Jaxson Hayes, Horton-Tucker, Wieskamp, Aaron Nesmith and Jared Butler), 10 plus guys were total busts and the rest of the guys were a little better or a little worse than Nance.

 

[NUCat320]

Who had him top 60? I just did a quick check and I saw 67 (Rivals), 79 (Scout) and 88 (247).

Since we recruit so poorly historically, I think our expectations are a little unrealistic. If you look at recruits from 50 to 100 that year (I must confess I don't recognize a lot of the names if they were outside the B1G or we didn't recruit them) and reranked them based on performance, I am guessing he would land in the 20-30 range. Doing a quick check of guys I recognize, it looks like 6 guys were great/really good (Oturu, Jaxson Hayes, Horton-Tucker, Wieskamp, Aaron Nesmith and Jared Butler), 10 plus guys were total busts and the rest of the guys were a little better or a little worse than Nance.

This is correct. After about the top 20 or so, where there’s usually something approaching consensus, it’s all a guess.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Good guy, good player. If his name was Pete Schwartz, there would have been zero expectations or disappointment

Did a quick check.

There have been 3 guys named Schwartz on a college basketball roster since 2000.

D'Shawn Schwartz, Cody Schwartz and Joe Schwartz. Joe played a total of 11 minutes in 4 years at Texas.

I'm gonna guess Pete Schwartz would not have been any good.

 

[DaCat]

Did a quick check.

There have been 3 guys named Schwartz on a college basketball roster since 2000.

D'Shawn Schwartz, Cody Schwartz and Joe Schwartz. Joe played a total of 11 minutes in 4 years at Texas.

I'm gonna guess Pete Schwartz would not have been any good.

How about Pete Shurna?

 

[hoosboot]

I wonder if Pete Schwartz is a top 100. Then maybe we lower our expectations.

That's a valid point, but isn't that really on us more than it is on Pete, too? Acting like Pete was a McD AA out of high school and needed to be 1st team all-conference just furthers the crime. The reality is that his rankings peg him pretty much as what he's been - a very good, but not dominant player.

 

[Sec.112]

That's a valid point, but isn't that really on us more than it is on Pete, too? Acting like Pete was a McD AA out of high school and needed to be 1st team all-conference just furthers the crime. The reality is that his rankings peg him pretty much as what he's been - a very good, but not dominant player.

It's a good point, As we've seen in the last couple years, so many misguided expectations evolve into meatheaded disappointment.

However, it's pretty clear the staff was the driver of these expectations through the Nance/Kopp "era." It's obvious the post-tourney program was built around these two and others building on the foundation. So you can't completely blame the fans.

But yes, we also share some of the blame for holding hope when both players had some incredibly average seasons for their first three years.

Obviously, I'm not the greatest Nance fan. He had his moments. But he also had too many limits for me to list to be a good player. He was fine.

OTOH, he did serve his time here. I respect anyone who stays the four years, and tries to get NU back up on the mountain. He was a good soldier. I hope he has a fabulous season at NC, and hope he sweats all over Jim Nantz on the podium at the end of it.

 

[Max_Power]

That's a valid point, but isn't that really on us more than it is on Pete, too? Acting like Pete was a McD AA out of high school and needed to be 1st team all-conference just furthers the crime. The reality is that his rankings peg him pretty much as what he's been - a very good, but not dominant player.

I have always felt that the difference between No. 25 and No. 150 is exposure based more than talent. Pete could have been in the 150s but got a big boost because of his last name. As for Kopp, it was clear from high school tape that he could not not make his own shot and had limited quicks and hops. He had some nice shooting games that got him ranked above his pay grade. Young showed out as an excellent passer with a game made forf the YMCA. He turned out exactly like I expected. The funny thing is that the player in that group who had the most exciting tape was Lathon by a mile. None of them defend which was always the problem.

NU NCAA never happens without the throw in of Derek Pardon to the mix and he was by far the least heralded of that generation of Collins players: 247 ranked him No. 300 and unranked on Rivals.

There is something to be said for going out and finding kids rather than trying to land a bunch of Top100 players year after year.

The downfall of Chris Collins will be two things, losing way too many recruiting battles in the second tier of players and running the offense through Pete Nance when he had Beran on the roster. The other thing that I will never understand is the winning a 3 big ten games with the 5 out offense, then losing a couple and abandoning it completely and never playing it again.

 

[GatoLouco]

Buie's 247 composite was #327. Audige was not ranked at all. And they are the basis of our team this year.

I don't believe rankings are worthless, they are an indication, and it probably averages out the way it should. But they are what they are, an indication. Iowa has had lower ranked players than ours for years now. Purdue's rankings are fairly similar to ours for the last few years.

 

[EagerFan]

The trick is to go out and find guys like Shurna and Juice - out of the top 150 guys with that drive and killer instinct who've been over looked.

 

[DaCat]

The trick is to go out and find guys like Shurna and Juice - out of the top 150 guys with that drive and killer instinct who've been over looked.

I am 100 percent on board with this statement. But easier said than done. Carmody relied on getting guys like Shurna, Thompson, and Coble. But that's not a long term sustainable model.

 

[EagerFan]

Absolutely easier said than done. And I don’t know who to credit/criticize/emulate on Carmody’s staff. They were good for about one of these diamonds every two to three years. Not enough to go the distance, but enough to tease us with the possibilities.

 

[NUCat320]

I am 100 percent on board with this statement. But easier said than done. Carmody relied on getting guys like Shurna, Thompson, and Coble. But that's not a long term sustainable model.

It does feel a lot like what Wisconsin and Iowa have done tho, right?

 

[ballerog711]

I believe Wisonsin uses an old school model and freshmen sit and learn the first year.

 

[CappyNU]

Absolutely easier said than done. And I don’t know who to credit/criticize/emulate on Carmody’s staff. They were good for about one of these diamonds every two to three years. Not enough to go the distance, but enough to tease us with the possibilities.

Every good player we had from Shurna onwards with the exception of Olah was recruited by Tavaras Hardy. Craig Moore, Kevin Coble and Juice Thompson were the marquee recruits prior to that, but Rivals doesn't have a lead recruiter for Moore and Coble. Juice was recruited by Mitch Henderson. I would assume Mitch got Craig Moore too, but not sure if he or Craig Robinson got Coble.

Edited to add that Shurna, Juice and Coble all did not have any other P6 offers.

 

[DaCat]

It does feel a lot like what Wisconsin and Iowa have done tho, right?

Seems that way. But in the long run, trying to discover the diamond-in-the-rough strategy didn't work for Carmody.

 

[clarificationcat]

It does feel a lot like what Wisconsin and Iowa have done tho, right?

Purdue, Iowa and Wisconsin do a great job of identifying system players but they sprinkle in a fair amount of top recruits as well. Garza, Wiescamp, Bohannon and others were top 100 type recruits. They hit the jackpot with the Murray brothers but that's a one in a thousand kind of thing. Purdue has had several top 100 recruits in the past few years as well.

Our pool of recruits, though, is tiny in comparison, because of academic restrictions. Admissions just turned away a recruit on the football team with a 3.3 gpa and a 1,100 SAT. That's tough and explains our struggles more than anything else.