USC 49, Stanford 3 — at halftime.
Good Lord.
Good Lord.
Well, at least like NU they've got a big endowment
- Thread starter pawildcat
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Why do you think Shaw bailed on his alma mater. He saw the writing on the wall. The Cardinal face the same obstacles that face NU:
- Rigid academic standards for incoming hs recruits
- Difficulties in allowing transfers into the program
- Lack of NIL - paying incoming recruits/transfers
They’ve supposedly made some concessions in the transfer game with the hiring of their new coach.
I think that these three “obstacles” will be key items in the contract negotiation between NU and our next head coach. I am very much in favor of movement on all three, while sticking to our core principles. There is room, I believe. And everyone comes out a winner.
There are plenty of bright young men and women who may not have great grades initially who I think can thrive at NU! Let’s make it happen.
How can NU "prevent" NIL payments? The university is not supposed to be a party in that transaction.
With the latest expansion and what ever is going to follow, NU has to do something or it will become a laughing stock which will not help academics. I understand that football already has a lower bar and I'm not saying they should abandon all academic rigor for football players but something needs to give as long as guys are getting through school at a rate that is not embarrassing.
Like it or not pubic reception and reputation is greatly influenced by Football and Basketball. These sports are NU's most pubic PR calling cards.
The toughest thing about NU is getting in.
This is where NU has to make a decision. They keep saying they are serious about being successful in football, but it’s a big long-shot they can consistently compete with the current restrictions in these three areas (and this was even before the whole thing this Summer). No one who pays any attention to college football can actually believe they can be a good program in this era with the current tight restrictions with academics and grad transfers.
They need to decide if they are truly serious about football. It makes no sense to actually believe that and then tie the hands of the football staff like they currently do. It seems they want both, and while that may have been possible (but still difficult) five years ago, that’s nearly impossible in this current landscape. Stop walking down the middle of the road. Either decide if you want to give your football staff a legit chance to succeed or be honest that you don’t really care how the team does. Cause the current approach is not realistically viable to having success. It’s a different college football world. Adjust or be left behind.
Absolutely agreed. We don't have to obliterate our principles - to a point, these principles can be a positive in recruiting. We can still maintain standards that are measurably higher than most others, yet not suffocate the program. I don't think nudging these admissions hurdles down just a notch would torpedo the school's academic reputation, and would give us at least a fighting chance to be competitive.
Stanford will continue to have many academic and athletic department advantages over NU, but with the seismic conference shifts, NU could be more attractive if we invest in a top coach/assistants, encourage the NIL program and work on admissions. Football life at Stanford seems less appealing if most of your conference away games are a coast to coast flight and 3 time zone change.
I have no big problem with lowering the academics bar somewhat for athletes, but funny thing is I don't remember anyone ever lowering the athletics bar for me when I was trying to hook on to sports teams. And it's amusing that courts are supposedly throwing anything sniffing of affirmative action at elite schools when D1 athletics is basically one big affirmative action program.
Banning legacy admissions preferences is the best path to improving diversity.
If you're going to ban affirmative action, ban affirmative action, including legacy admissions. Don't tell me you have a meritocracy if you're going to have it in some areas and not others. This is all coming about because some kids would have to settle for going to one of the almost Ivies or one of the more well-known big schools rather than Harvard or Princeton. Nobody was suing my undergraduate state school alma mater about affirmative action, and we're educating far more minority students on a percentage basis than some of these schools.
My understanding is that we have two separate NIL efforts at NU:
(1) TrueNU, an independent entity that serves as a link between NU athletes and charities. TrueNU had selected several charities that will benefit from volunteer work performed by NU athletes. Donors donate to TrueNU and the players are paid for their time working with approved charities.
(2) The other is a “commercial” NIL effort affiliated with NU Athletics (name ?), that arranges for NU athletes to be paid for their endorsement of products. An example might be an NU football player appearing in an ad for a local auto dealer. I think we use an outside organization to oversee this effort, but am not sure.
It seems to me that NU Athletics can more aggressively promote both of these NIL efforts via information dissemination and promotion (i.e. “here are additional ways you can help our student athletes”). This is what I had in mind when I suggested above that our next head football coach could ask for greater support for our NIL effort, along reasonable changes to admissions and the transfer portal.
Coach Prime’s son supposedly gets $3.3M a year.
On the admissions front, I would be (and have always been) in favor of the head coach getting leeway in the admission of students/players unless or until the graduation rate for players were to dip. If you give the head coach this kind of control, where it could be taken away in a heartbeat, I imagine he'd throw the kitchen sink at getting students to class and making academic progress.
It was easy to advocate for this with Fitz given he was an alum and with the program for so long - for whatever we might be learning now, I believe he was deeply committed to academic success. I am confident any coach they bring in will "get it" when it comes to this.
Looking back at Stanford's most recent success...I'd love to know how Harbaugh swung things, because I don't believe they became the juggernaut they were solely because he was a monster of a coach on the field.
It was easy to advocate for this with Fitz given he was an alum and with the program for so long - for whatever we might be learning now, I believe he was deeply committed to academic success. I am confident any coach they bring in will "get it" when it comes to this.
Looking back at Stanford's most recent success...I'd love to know how Harbaugh swung things, because I don't believe they became the juggernaut they were solely because he was a monster of a coach on the field.
I don't see how bannng legacy admissions would have any affect whatsoever on improving diversity.
If a certain number of admissions slots are set aside for diversity then it doesn't really matter how they are filled, whether it be from alumi or not.
Reality is that for NIL to be effective it probably has to be pretty well coordinated. We have a small alumni base and reality is that we are probably better at preparing people to work within corporations more than starting businesses so the natural sources of NIL are fewer at a place like NU. Do you see NUs leadership doing a good job at coordinating such a program? I don't
20 years ago. But he has gotten a lot older like the rest of us
‘Diversity’ slots have been made illegal.
Here’s the research on Harvard:
43 Percent of White Students Harvard Admits Are Legacies, Jocks, or the Kids of Donors and Faculty
A new study shows how affirmative action for white people works at America's most prestigious university.
(Note: The ‘athlete’ part is interesting. I wonder if NU’s athletic recruit admissions are more or less diverse than the rest of the student body.)
I agree with the above statement. I was fortunate to get in NU off the waiting list in August and found it much easier than my high school. I played a time-consuming sport but still graduated "WHD". I believe there are student athletes from demographics that could benefit from an NU experience, if NU would give them the opportunity and resources to succeed.
I disagree with the premise that NU is diverse. The student body and faculty may be multicolored but unfortunately homogenous of thought, earning NU the reputation of intolerance. A university should allow the free expression of ideas to encourage discussion of interesting topics.
Is it possible that the entire hazing scandal is a gigantic conspiracy — orchestrated *by Fitz*?
Think. Stanford and NU football are both in the pits. Out of shame, and burnout, Shaw just walks away. No payout, just burnout-related think pieces. But no payout.
Fitz knows that’s the right thing to do, but he’s got ‘mansion in Northfield’ property taxes and a kid at NU who is merely a preferred walk on and he likes to go to Kenny Chesney concerts at Soldier Field and Taylor Swift shows us those things are just getting more expensive.
So, instead of walking away with dignity but without a paycheck, he enlists Carl and all those guys with whom he has such a great bond (and, like all of us, he can see that Schill and Gragg will colossally efff anything up) and — poof! — scandal, firing, lawsuit, settlement.
It looks like the ‘get Ggarg fired’ part has, improbably, crashed and burned, but everything else has come up Fitzy. A shame Braun has to be the collateral damage.
GET THAT MAN HIS STATUE
Think. Stanford and NU football are both in the pits. Out of shame, and burnout, Shaw just walks away. No payout, just burnout-related think pieces. But no payout.
Fitz knows that’s the right thing to do, but he’s got ‘mansion in Northfield’ property taxes and a kid at NU who is merely a preferred walk on and he likes to go to Kenny Chesney concerts at Soldier Field and Taylor Swift shows us those things are just getting more expensive.
So, instead of walking away with dignity but without a paycheck, he enlists Carl and all those guys with whom he has such a great bond (and, like all of us, he can see that Schill and Gragg will colossally efff anything up) and — poof! — scandal, firing, lawsuit, settlement.
It looks like the ‘get Ggarg fired’ part has, improbably, crashed and burned, but everything else has come up Fitzy. A shame Braun has to be the collateral damage.
GET THAT MAN HIS STATUE
To think you actually spent your time and effort thinking about this and typing it out. Still time to delete.
Looking like 1-2 Snodfart is going to pull an NU this year. Winless in the continental United States.
Nothing to think about with the abysmal program he left behind, thou humorless one.
Why are you so utterly humorless?
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So talented white kids have not only had to compete with affirmative action but also with white legacy admissions.‘Diversity’ slots have been made illegal.
Here’s the research on Harvard:
43 Percent of White Students Harvard Admits Are Legacies, Jocks, or the Kids of Donors and Faculty
A new study shows how affirmative action for white people works at America's most prestigious university.slate.com
(Note: The ‘athlete’ part is interesting. I wonder if NU’s athletic recruit admissions are more or less diverse than the rest of the student body.)
Shaw left on a mutual agreement, otherwise he would have been pushed out.
Like Fitz, Shaw was slow to adapt to the changing college game and his program starting missing on too many recruits (esp on the O-line, which used to be a strength), despite classes that were still mostly good on paper.
2022 - 20th overall, 2nd in PAC12
7 4*, 15 3*
2021 - 43rd, 7th
2 4*, 15 3*
2020 - 21st, 3rd
6 4*, 16 3*
2019 - 20th, 4th
8 4*, 14 3*
2018 - 39th, 7th
5 4*, 11 3*
That's 28 4* recruits over the past 5 classes; that's probably more 4* players than we saw during Fitz's entire tenure.
Things are just as drastic, if not more so on the basketball side for Stanford...
2022
1 4*, 1 3*
2021
1 5*, 1 4*, 2 3*
2020 -
1 5*, 3 4*, 1 3*
2019
1 4*, 2 3*
2018 - 39th, 7th
3 4*, 2 3*
So that's 2 5* and 8 4* recruits over the past 5 classes.
Don't follow Stanford BB well enough, but wouldn't be surprised if it's something similar to what Collins went through after the 1st Tourney appearance - too many misses on top recruits and poor roster building/make-up.
There are enough recruits/transfers out there with the academics to get into NU to fill the roster many times over.
The problem is too many misses and/or poor roster building, along with poor schemes and player development.
Clawson, with Wake, appears to be on his way to his 7th winning season out of 10 (while breaking in a new QB).
Does anyone here think Wake has the recruiting advantages that NU has?
Like Fitz, Shaw was slow to adapt to the changing college game and his program starting missing on too many recruits (esp on the O-line, which used to be a strength), despite classes that were still mostly good on paper.
2022 - 20th overall, 2nd in PAC12
7 4*, 15 3*
2021 - 43rd, 7th
2 4*, 15 3*
2020 - 21st, 3rd
6 4*, 16 3*
2019 - 20th, 4th
8 4*, 14 3*
2018 - 39th, 7th
5 4*, 11 3*
That's 28 4* recruits over the past 5 classes; that's probably more 4* players than we saw during Fitz's entire tenure.
Things are just as drastic, if not more so on the basketball side for Stanford...
2022
1 4*, 1 3*
2021
1 5*, 1 4*, 2 3*
2020 -
1 5*, 3 4*, 1 3*
2019
1 4*, 2 3*
2018 - 39th, 7th
3 4*, 2 3*
So that's 2 5* and 8 4* recruits over the past 5 classes.
Don't follow Stanford BB well enough, but wouldn't be surprised if it's something similar to what Collins went through after the 1st Tourney appearance - too many misses on top recruits and poor roster building/make-up.
There are enough recruits/transfers out there with the academics to get into NU to fill the roster many times over.
The problem is too many misses and/or poor roster building, along with poor schemes and player development.
Clawson, with Wake, appears to be on his way to his 7th winning season out of 10 (while breaking in a new QB).
Does anyone here think Wake has the recruiting advantages that NU has?
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Even if satire, this is literally the dumbest thing I’ve read on these boards (and there have been some doozies).
Stanford is always going to have some inherent advantages over NU (location, weather, more ”name brand” education, etc.), though the PAC-12’s implosion and the move to the ACC will probably limit a bit of that. Stanford’s biggest issue seemed to be malaise that entered the program under Shaw, plus the firing of Shannon Turley in 2019. There was a fascinating article in The Athletic a while back that was essentially all about how Shaw and the Stanford program lost their edge, felt like you could have whited it out and it applied to NU/Fitz.
RE: Wake Forest… Dave Clawson is a very good coach and the “slow read” offense is really cool, plus they don’t have nearly the same academic restrictions as NU. Also really help when you hit on a tremendous QB (Hartman) who’s in your own back yard who commits extremely early and only had other offers from Elon and Charlotte.
Think about all of Fitz’s influence…and the property taxes…and the golden settlement parachute…genius!
Hard to see why the NIL is as much of a problem for them as it is for us with Silicon Valley riches available. Academic standards and difficulty in dealing with the portal are for sure similar
It isn't NU preventing them as much as having a small alumni base with a lot not really that interested in athletics and being less of a business incubator that limits them
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