What a Sh** Show..

[FeralFelidae]

It’s been going on for 20+ years and you think “he had to know is ridiculous”?

Neither Simiean nor the team explicitly denied Fitz knew of the hazing activity. The team says he “was not involved in the incidents” and did not know “of the allegations”. That was a carefully worded statement, so I take it literally, and it doesn’t say he didn’t know.

I believe the coaches thought it was acceptable behavior all along, and the team’s statement is meant to try to save the name of their coach, who they love, and of themselves. I applaud them for writing it.

Third-party investigation could not prove that Fitz knew about any hazing. But others here can assert that Fitz must have known? Please.

Siemian and Hank can share their own experiences, but they don't presume to speak for everybody. Nobody can.

 

[FeralFelidae]

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Just reading through some of those comments directed at Siemian... Wow. Gee, I wonder why nobody would want to subject themselves to such abuse?

Bullies.

 

[HailToPurple]

It’s been going on for 20+ years and you think “he had to know is ridiculous”?

Neither Simiean nor the team explicitly denied Fitz knew of the hazing activity. The team says he “was not involved in the incidents” and did not know “of the allegations”. That was a carefully worded statement, so I take it literally, and it doesn’t say he didn’t know.

I believe the coaches thought it was acceptable behavior all along, and the team’s statement is meant to try to save the name of their coach, who they love, and of themselves. I applaud them for writing it.

You realize that this whole thing now is entirely a result of one disgruntled mediocre player, Carl Richardson, who felt that he was better than he really was and didn’t get enough playing time to suit him.

In essence it was a matter of getting even with Fitz for not playing him enough. Richardson even said that the reason he went public was to get even with Fitz.

Just think that if CR had been played a lot and was really as good as he thought he was whether any of this would be being discussed. If he had played more he probably would have been a big Fitz fan rather than an enemy and none of this would be happening now.

So it’s very interesting that the people who claim to be affected over the years never said anything. But suddenly someone who was not personally affected at all but just wanted to harm Fitz used it as a weapon.

There is not much credibility in that scenario at all.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Notice there are a couple points the Enablers ignore, unable to refute - who was the person ultimately responsible for the team and where are all the great players coming out to vocally stand behind PF. Cuz they cannot refute those points - they either ignore or divert to personal attacks each and every time these things are brought up.

Give it a rest for once. Where are all the great players supporting all of the abuse?

BTW-how often was the swim and diving Coach in your locker room?

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

It’s been going on for 20+ years and you think “he had to know is ridiculous”?

Neither Simiean nor the team explicitly denied Fitz knew of the hazing activity. The team says he “was not involved in the incidents” and did not know “of the allegations”. That was a carefully worded statement, so I take it literally, and it doesn’t say he didn’t know.

I believe the coaches thought it was acceptable behavior all along, and the team’s statement is meant to try to save the name of their coach, who they love, and of themselves. I applaud them for writing it.

Yes, I would agree that this is ridiculous.

 

[IGNORE2]

Does Trevor Siemian count?

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He was the first NFL cat that came to mind, so I looked at his Twitter and sure enough, he has a statement supporting Fitz. Did you even look, or are you just throwing sh*t against the wall?

As for Fitz, nobody has been able to prove that he knew about any hazing, despite having several measures in place, as detailed by Hank, to allow players to provide feedback both in person and anonymously to both the football staff outside the football staff. But he agreed to additional measures to curtail any hazing (no more Camp Kenosha forever, agreeing to the seemingly unprecedented measure of installing locker room police, etc.). No human on the planet is omniscient, so I'm more concerned with what corrective actions they take when such allegations come to light.

Using this as a pretense to dispense with someone whom I don't think provided enough "value" these last two seasons to avoid buying out his contract just seems dirty and dishonest to me.

Feral - we have been through this, I don’t tweet. So no is the answer to your question. But in defending one’s position, I would expect the people in your camp to do what you just did. As, yes, TS most certainly counts. And these are the type of testimonials that folks here should be citing.

That said, I hope there are many more in Twitter verse as there are many more NU NFLers. Also, TS doesn’t deny the activities didn’t exist, he said it was not his experience. Folks around here have bashed the complaintants as not talented. Perhaps that did in fact play a role. Can’t say.

But if there are a lot more defenses on Twitter verse, posting those are much more persuasive than most of the BS used to defend PF.

I hope one goes further with a more definitive statement that these things DID NOT happen at anytime they were on the team.

Thank you for posting that. I am big enough to admit it goes towards your case. But it’s by no means the complete defense.

 

[IGNORE2]

That's not true at all. Both Fitz and Hank said that neither one of them knew. And I am fairly certain that if Hank knew he would said something about it to Fitz.

I don't understand why people refuse to believe them.

And statements like "he had to know" are ridiculous.

How about statements like “he is paid $5MM per year to know”

Clearly, he wasn’t being paid for the wins. Remember, the recurring justification for keeping PF was that we would never have to endure a scandal like PSU because he ran such an indisputably clean program.

 

[IGNORE2]

Just reading through some of those comments directed at Siemian... Wow. Gee, I wonder why nobody would want to subject themselves to such abuse?

Bullies.

So bullying is damnable but the running and car wash is boys being boys?

 

[SDakaGordie]

You realize that this whole thing now is entirely a result of one disgruntled mediocre player, Carl Richardson, who felt that he was better than he really was and didn’t get enough playing time to suit him.

In essence it was a matter of getting even with Fitz for not playing him enough. Richardson even said that the reason he went public was to get even with Fitz.

Just think that if CR had been played a lot and was really as good as he thought he was whether any of this would be being discussed. If he had played more he probably would have been a big Fitz fan rather than an enemy and none of this would be happening now.

So it’s very interesting that the people who claim to be affected over the years never said anything. But suddenly someone who was not personally affected at all but just wanted to harm Fitz used it as a weapon.

There is not much credibility in that scenario at all.

I understand this and it meets with my thinking. People won’t start talking until someone breaks the code of silence. We would/could have never found out about hazing if it were not for this disgruntled player. How does that make anything right?

The report said “there was not specific evidence that coaches were BOTH aware and complicit in the hazing” but “there were significant opportunities for coaches to discover and report the hazing”. I’m not saying Fitz’s punishment was justified, but I’m saying it’s very likely he knew what was going on even if it can’t be specifically proven.

 

[FeralFelidae]

So bullying is damnable but the running and car wash is boys being boys?

When did I EVER say that?

 

[IGNORE2]

You realize that this whole thing now is entirely a result of one disgruntled mediocre player, Carl Richardson, who felt that he was better than he really was and didn’t get enough playing time to suit him.

In essence it was a matter of getting even with Fitz for not playing him enough. Richardson even said that the reason he went public was to get even with Fitz.

Just think that if CR had been played a lot and was really as good as he thought he was whether any of this would be being discussed. If he had played more he probably would have been a big Fitz fan rather than an enemy and none of this would be happening now.

So it’s very interesting that the people who claim to be affected over the years never said anything. But suddenly someone who was not personally affected at all but just wanted to harm Fitz used it as a weapon.

There is not much credibility in that scenario at all.

You raise an interesting point - if this had not been made public but the describe activities were in fact happening, would that make it ok in your mind? Is that consistent with a clean program for you?

 

[IGNORE2]

Give it a rest for once. Where are all the great players supporting all of the abuse?

BTW-how often was the swim and diving Coach in your locker room?

Ummm, she was a she back when those things mattered so…never. She also was not a very good coach and didn’t last in coaching very long. Got too many of us hurt and didn’t produce any development of the athletes under her regimen.

And she was let go. She did run a clean program though.

As for the answer to your question, I think there are about a half dozen John Does and I think their identities could be very interesting. Also, considering the nature of hazing, it’s very possible they all became gazers themselves and therefore want nothing to do with all this.

But if it didn’t happen at all and they are loyal and thankful to PF, one would hope they would speak up loudly in his time of need.

 

[IGNORE2]

When did I EVER say that?

Fair. Honestly, the way some folks have been defending PF here, hard to keep track without a scorecard. There have been comments of that nature by others. Not you. My apology.

 

[HailToPurple]

How about statements like “he is paid $5MM per year to know”

Clearly, he wasn’t being paid for the wins. Remember, the recurring justification for keeping PF was that we would never have to endure a scandal like PSU because he ran such an indisputably clean program.

You make it sound like the only reason for keeping Fitz was to avoid a Penn State type scandal. And that is clearly not the case at all.

Fitz had 15 years of terrific accomplishments that you and others fail to acknowledge. While the last two years were disappointing any reasonable measure of his value has to take into account those earlier years.

And statements like "he is paid $5MM per year to know" are ridiculous. If the team wanted to keep this secret from him they certainly could do so. And apparently did.

 

[HailToPurple]

...The report said “there was not specific evidence that coaches were BOTH aware and complicit in the hazing” but “there were significant opportunities for coaches to discover and report the hazing”. I’m not saying Fitz’s punishment was justified, but I’m saying it’s very likely he knew what was going on even if it can’t be specifically proven...

That proves absolutley nothing with regard to whether Fitz knew or not. I can make the statement that he very likely did not know which is just as plausible as yours that he very likely knew.

There is nothing in all of this that gives your statement any more credibility than mine. It's just plain conjecture on your part and pretty much worthless in this discussion.

 

[HailToPurple]

You raise an interesting point - if this had not been made public but the describe activities were in fact happening, would that make it ok in your mind? Is that consistent with a clean program for you?

This is a red herring argument and not worth a response.

The question here is whether Fitz and Hank knew. And I maintain that there is no evidence or proof that they did.

 

[IGNORE2]

You make it sound like the only reason for keeping Fitz was to avoid a Penn State type scandal. And that is clearly not the case at all.

Fitz had 15 years of terrific accomplishments that you and others fail to acknowledge. While the last two years were disappointing any reasonable measure of his value has to take into account those earlier years.

And statements like "he is paid $5MM per year to know" are ridiculous. If the team wanted to keep this secret from him they certainly could do so. And apparently did.

What do you think of Joe Paterno?

 

[IGNORE2]

This is a red herring argument and not worth a response.

The question here is whether Fitz and Hank knew. And I maintain that there is no evidence or proof that they did.

No, it’s a hard question that you don’t want to face.