What BTN thinks about our QB's

[Katatonic]

Number 3 is not bad to start by Clayton is clearly the best quarterback in the Big Ten at throwing the ball

Eh - wrong again.

The best QB in the B1G at throwing the ball would be Trace McSorley.

If CT is able to start doing what TM was able to do last season (extend passing plays), Thorson will have made quite the leap.

I seem to recall this downfield throw.....

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And that's pretty much the one "downfield" throw that everyone points to - and really wasn't much of a downfield pass.

KC simply didn't have the arm-strength or accuracy on deep throws - which is why we rarely saw KC throw a long bomb in a tight coverage situation.

There were those who stated that such things would come in time and as KC was further away from his shoulder surgery, but that never happened.

If it had, there wouldn't have been a 2 QB situation - esp. one where Siemian started to garner more of the snaps.

Colter was better

Simply, no.

That's exactly my point. In your view an "actual QB" is a taller guy who operates primarily from the pocket. My view is that an "actual QB" is one that moves the offense, which is what Colter did.

As I had pointed out in a post a while ago, the NU offense w/ Siemian under center was better at sustaining longer drives.

Colter would not have been able to march the offense down the length of the field twice late in the game as Siemian did in the MOON game, esp. an offense that was w/o the talents of VM both at RB and as a return man.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

As I had pointed out in a post a while ago, the NU offense w/ Siemian under center was better at sustaining longer drives.

Colter would not have been able to march the offense down the length of the field twice late in the game as Siemian did in the MOON game, esp. an offense that was w/o the talents of VM both at RB and as a return man.

But that's the offensive personnel we had... you kind of just made my point: Colter made sense given the other offensive personnel we had, including a dynamic RB, inconsistent WRs, and an OL much better run blocking than pass blocking.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

I would much prefer that Thorson takes the next step forward, allowing Alviti to play out blow-out's with the Cats up big.

PS -- not so sure I would define 11-24 passing with 1 TD and 1 INT to go along with four sacks as "do[ing] well."

Do we know for sure that Alviti will be second team? We have been fortunate not to have big QB injuries. Im not impressed with what little i have seen of Alviti but we havent exactly torn up the QB recruiting after Thorson.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Do we know for sure that Alviti will be second team? We have been fortunate not to have big QB injuries. Im not impressed with what little i have seen of Alviti but we havent exactly torn up the QB recruiting after Thorson.

I would be shocked if Alviti wasn't the backup in 2017. And we don't know nearly enough about Smith, Marty, or Whittaker to reach any conclusions. I happen to think Marty in particular has a ton of potential.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Do we know for sure that Alviti will be second team?

It would be great if MA improves so much that he overtakes CT (even if CT also progresses) and becomes the starter...or more reasonably and likely, that MA reaches the point of playing a lot as part of a 2-QB system.

As far as the others overtaking MA (or CT), the odds seem dismal (baring injury). They have neither the experience nor (it seems) the HS credentials. One, (Green) came as a preferred walk-on with NO FBS offers. The other two just got MAC offers plus BC (Smith). Not inspiring. Am I missing anyone?

That said, some players do manage to make most coaching staffs look like idiots (and the few that offered them look like geniuses). Let's hope that proves to be the case for one or more of the NU QB's not named CT or MA.

 

[NJCat]

It would be great if MA improves so much that he overtakes CT (even if CT also progresses) and becomes the starter...or more reasonably and likely, that MA reaches the point of playing a lot as part of a 2-QB system.

Matty progressing to the point where he overtakes a guy with 26 starts over 2 seasons would be quite a story. Unless Thorson is injured his playing time will (and had better be) limited again this season. NU isn't likely to roll out the 2 QB system again, as Matt doesn't have the tools Colter did and Thorson is a better runner than Siemian was.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

It would be great if MA improves so much that he overtakes CT (even if CT also progresses) and becomes the starter...or more reasonably and likely, that MA reaches the point of playing a lot as part of a 2-QB system.

As far as the others overtaking MA (or CT), the odds seem dismal (baring injury). They have neither the experience nor (it seems) the HS credentials. One, (Green) came as a preferred walk-on with NO FBS offers. The other two (Smith and Whittaker) mostly got MAC offers, plus NU and "MAC plus" level like Indy. Not inspiring. Am I missing anyone else?

That said, some players do manage to make most coaching staffs look like idiots (and the few that offered them look like genius). Let's hope that proves to be the case for one or more of the NU QB's not named CT or MA.

Whittaker looks much better than a MAC level QB. In fact all 3 you mention do. Whittaker would have a lot more offers if he didn't commit very early. He might have them for all we know.

 

[FeliSilvestris]

Whittaker looks much better than a MAC level QB. In fact all 3 you mention do. Whittaker would have a lot more offers if he didn't commit very early.

Actually I meant Marty, who should be available this Fall. Marty's other offers are all from the MAC.
Whittaker is coming a year later. His offer list is a bit stronger...but not by much...his other offers, besides the MAC, come from Indy and IaSU...That's MAC+ in my book. When NU offered him others could have also...and did...several MAC schools, Indy and ISU...if other FBS schools had been interested they could have offered at the same time as NU and those that did...the others FBS schools just weren't convinced...end of story.
As stated above, he and the others mentioned could conceivably vastly over-perform expectations...could...but not necessarily will...we shall see.

 

[EvanstonCat]

What? Sutton's final season was 2008.

Regardless, you're wrong.

Sorry I meant Venric Mark.

No, I'm not wrong. What's completey wrong are the inane arguments that we were better off playing a one dimensional running QB vs. a future NFL starter. It would be great if people could just come to their senses and agree that while we like our coaches, they are far from infallible, and simply effed up here.

 

[Katatonic]

But that's the offensive personnel we had... you kind of just made my point: Colter made sense given the other offensive personnel we had, including a dynamic RB, inconsistent WRs, and an OL much better run blocking than pass blocking.

Except (again), McCall didn't take advantage of all of Siemian's talents until near the very end of his career in purple.

In 2014, the WR were way more inconsistent and the O-line was a good bit worse than in 2012. And a dynamic RB (who wasn't too bad at catching the ball) is only a benefit to the passing game.

Again, not saying that KC shouldn't have gotten snaps under center, but disagreed w/ how the 2 were used at times.

It's kinda like the whole misbelief about Colter being the winner out of the 2 QBs.

During the 2012 season-opener, the 'Cats probably would have suffered a huge collapse if it weren't for Trevor's heroics in the Dome (leading the 'Cats on a 75 yd/10 play TD drive to retake the lead w/ 2:40 on the clock).

Trevor was also the QB under center for the go-ahead scores in the Vandy and MSU wins.

In the painful loss to UM, TS came in and passed for 2 TDs, including the go ahead score in the 4th Q.

The 'Cats got the ball back quickly on a Dugar INT of Gardner and just had to run the clock out to secure the win.

KC, being the running (time-killing) QB came in for what was hopefully the last drive, but could only secure one 1st down (and barely at that) and the rest... well, we know what happened.

While neither QB had a particularly good game in the Gator bowl - TS was better and led the drive which resulted in the go-ahead score (starting back on their 24 yd line).

In 2013, both QBs were effective in the win against the 'Cuse, but Siemian was more effective in moving the O down the field.

Both QBs had about the same passing attempts (19 for TS; 18 for KC), but Siemian ended up passing for 259 yds whereas Colter passed for 116 (they both completed 15 of their passing attempts).

Even if you add in KC's 87 yds gained on the ground on 11 carries, Siemian still garnered more yards for the O (TS also had 1 run for 4 yds).

And against dOSU, once again it was Siemian who led the go-ahead scoring drive in the 4th Q.

The Bucknuts returned the favor and with 5 minutes left in the game, instead of continuing w/ the hot hand, Fitz/McCall went w/ KC and the O turned the ball over on downs.

And in the brutal 3OT loss to the angry weasels, in what was a game of FGs, it was TS who was more instrumental in getting into FG range.

This is why I take issue w/ those who think the O was more suited for KC or that he was the better of the 2 QBs (and was the winner of the 2).

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Sorry I meant Venric Mark.

No, I'm not wrong. What's completey wrong are the inane arguments that we were better off playing a one dimensional running QB vs. a future NFL starter. It would be great if people could just come to their senses and agree that while we like our coaches, they are far from infallible, and simply effed up here.

What's your argument besides "future NFL starter?"

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Except (again), McCall didn't take advantage of all of Siemian's talents until near the very end of his career in purple.

In 2014, the WR were way more inconsistent and the O-line was a good bit worse than in 2012. And a dynamic RB (who wasn't too bad at catching the ball) is only a benefit to the passing game.

Again, not saying that KC shouldn't have gotten snaps under center, but disagreed w/ how the 2 were used at times.

It's kinda like the whole misbelief about Colter being the winner out of the 2 QBs.

During the 2012 season-opener, the 'Cats probably would have suffered a huge collapse if it weren't for Trevor's heroics in the Dome (leading the 'Cats on a 75 yd/10 play TD drive to retake the lead w/ 2:40 on the clock).

Trevor was also the QB under center for the go-ahead scores in the Vandy and MSU wins.

In the painful loss to UM, TS came in and passed for 2 TDs, including the go ahead score in the 4th Q.

The 'Cats got the ball back quickly on a Dugar INT of Gardner and just had to run the clock out to secure the win.

KC, being the running (time-killing) QB came in for what was hopefully the last drive, but could only secure one 1st down (and barely at that) and the rest... well, we know what happened.

While neither QB had a particularly good game in the Gator bowl - TS was better and led the drive which resulted in the go-ahead score (starting back on their 24 yd line).

In 2013, both QBs were effective in the win against the 'Cuse, but Siemian was more effective in moving the O down the field.

Both QBs had about the same passing attempts (19 for TS; 18 for KC), but Siemian ended up passing for 259 yds whereas Colter passed for 116 (they both completed 15 of their passing attempts).

Even if you add in KC's 87 yds gained on the ground on 11 carries, Siemian still garnered more yards for the O (TS also had 1 run for 4 yds).

And against dOSU, once again it was Siemian who led the go-ahead scoring drive in the 4th Q.

The Bucknuts returned the favor and with 5 minutes left in the game, instead of continuing w/ the hot hand, Fitz/McCall went w/ KC and the O turned the ball over on downs.

And in the brutal 3OT loss to the angry weasels, in what was a game of FGs, it was TS who was more instrumental in getting into FG range.

This is why I take issue w/ those who think the O was more suited for KC or that he was the better of the 2 QBs (and was the winner of the 2).

Sup, AutoCat?

How do you quantify all the times Colter bailed out the crappy OL by gaining chunk yards with his legs when the protection broke down?

 

[EvanstonCat]

What's your argument besides "future NFL starter?"

Are you serious?

That's like saying, what's your argument, except "grab pussy" or "collusion with the Russians?"

Sup, AutoCat?

How do you quantify all the times Colter bailed out the crappy OL by gaining chunk yards with his legs when the protection broke down?

SMH

Sometimes gcg2003 makes up his mind and defends his point irrationally. He knows a lot about recruiting but is stubborn that way.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Are you serious?

That's like saying, what's your argument, except "grab pussy" or "collusion with the Russians?"



SMH

Sometimes gcg2003 makes up his mind and defends his point irrationally. He knows a lot about recruiting but is stubborn that way.

So now you're not even making your own points, just copying others?

 

[Katatonic]

Sup, AutoCat?

How do you quantify all the times Colter bailed out the crappy OL by gaining chunk yards with his legs when the protection broke down?

Trevor did that as well with his quick passes and didn't get sacked at the same rate as Colter.

And as stated before, Colter's legs failed many a time in big situations (people don't seem to remember that).

And congrats, you discovered something that Glades has known about for months.