What can Collins learn from Loyola?

[Sec.112]

I want our coaches and players to study game film of this Loyola basketball team on a daily basis. And, you know, copy what they do.

Uber, I hope you don't mind me piggybacking your thread. I was going to ask this later, but I might as well start it now.

What can NU learn from Loyola this year? And please don't bore me with something as simple as "make shots." That's what I always despised about that phrase. When you watch Loyola there are several details they do precisely in the cut, pass, receiving the pass and decision-making to put themselves in a position to have a high shooting percentage.

This list may end up being too long but I'd like to give it a crack. Let me start.

1) Drive to the freakin' hoop to spread the defense. Richardson and Custer aren't mind-blowing with the ball, but they understand they need to drive to the basket to keep the defense honest and get room for their shot.

2) It's obvious how much better Loyola shares the ball. But especially when you don't catch the pass in a good shooting position, that is the ideal time to make the extra pass.

3) Trust your match-ups and don't become married to a single lineup. Everybody loves Krutwig and I don't blame them. But how many runs has this team gone on with Jackson in there.

I could probably write about this topic for an hour. What else is there?

 

[willycat]

Uber, I hope you don't mind me piggybacking your thread. I was going to ask this later, but I might as well start it now.

What can NU learn from Loyola this year? And please don't bore me with something as simple as "make shots." That's what I always despised about that phrase. When you watch Loyola there are several details they do precisely in the cut, pass, receiving the pass and decision-making to put themselves in a position to have a high shooting percentage.

This list may end up being too long but I'd like to give it a crack. Let me start.

1) Drive to the freakin' hoop to spread the defense. Richardson and Custer aren't mind-blowing with the ball, but they understand they need to drive to the basket to keep the defense honest and get room for their shot.

2) It's obvious how much better Loyola shares the ball. But especially when you don't catch the pass in a good shooting position, that is the ideal time to make the extra pass.

3) Trust your match-ups and don't become married to a single lineup. Everybody loves Krutwig and I don't blame them. But how many runs has this team gone on with Jackson in there.

I could probably write about this topic for an hour. What else is there?

On those drives to the basket, use the backboard! Stop with the soft, need to be perfect floaters.

 

[Sec.112]

I'd put 10 likes on that if I could, Willy. I HATE Mac's floater/tear drop.

I don't think I've seen one of those in Loyola"s run.

 

[JournCat]

Everyone has to be able to create offense on their own. No one can hide or wait for someone else to set them up.

 

[Hungry Jack]

The prevailing lesson seems to be get good players who can move with or without the ball.

 

[loyolacat]

1. get to the basket...totally agree...but most times LU had at least 3 guards who could get to the hoop and often times 4. Neither Brown or Ash did well at this.Do you think Gaines will be better at this? I think Lathom will help in this department ,how about the rest of the new guys?
2. Share the ball....totally agree....I heard the LU rule is you have 1 second to drive, pass or shoot......I thought NU isolated and tried to go one on one way to often and LUs high shooting percentage is due to the fact they take a high percentage of good shots
3. Coach Moser plays defensive matchups first....defense feeds the offense.as they are often in transition and the other team never matches up well or gets a chance to settle into their defense....Donte Ingram was the game 1 hero ...he misplays a switch in game 2 against Nevada allowing a 3 and out he comes. Coach Moser simply does not allow mistakes no matter who and or when...
When I look back on both teams this year..I think LU had players to play their system at a high level...The Cats tried to play man defense with guys who were not very good at it.....and tried to play a dribble penetrate offense with really only one guy who could dribble drive penetrate...found a defensive answer with the zone...had some success on offense by focusing on Pardon and 3 point shooting...but if were not hot hitting the 3s then teams could stop Pardon. So very inconsistent. I know NU has a great class coming in but what kind of defense and offense will accentuate their skills ?

 

[ubercat]

Their offensive spacing was pitch perfect. Combined with their court awareness and great passing, they could catch the ball and shoot in rhythm before the defense could react. It was as Clark Kellogg said, so “esthetically pleasing.”

 

[willycat]

1. get to the basket...totally agree...but most times LU had at least 3 guards who could get to the hoop and often times 4. Neither Brown or Ash did well at this.Do you think Gaines will be better at this? I think Lathom will help in this department ,how about the rest of the new guys?
2. Share the ball....totally agree....I heard the LU rule is you have 1 second to drive, pass or shoot......I thought NU isolated and tried to go one on one way to often and LUs high shooting percentage is due to the fact they take a high percentage of good shots
3. Coach Moser plays defensive matchups first....defense feeds the offense.as they are often in transition and the other team never matches up well or gets a chance to settle into their defense....Donte Ingram was the game 1 hero ...he misplays a switch in game 2 against Nevada allowing a 3 and out he comes. Coach Moser simply does not allow mistakes no matter who and or when...
When I look back on both teams this year..I think LU had players to play their system at a high level...The Cats tried to play man defense with guys who were not very good at it.....and tried to play a dribble penetrate offense with really only one guy who could dribble drive penetrate...found a defensive answer with the zone...had some success on offense by focusing on Pardon and 3 point shooting...but if were not hot hitting the 3s then teams could stop Pardon. So very inconsistent. I know NU has a great class coming in but what kind of defense and offense will accentuate their skills ?

Agree with just about all of that loyolacat. BTW, congratulations but do you think the Ramblers will be able to hang onto Moser? More importantly, Sister Jean!

 

[rwhitney014]

On defense:

Get in your man's face and keep your hands vertical.

On movement:

Hustle back in transition on either side of the ball.

On offense: keep the moving. No standing around dribbling 30 feet from the basket till there's 12 on the shot clock. They also do a nice job of using Krutwig as a pivot in the free throw semi-circle, which generates some handoffs and kickouts that are different looks for the defense than when Townes, Custer, Richardson and Ingram drive.

Oh, and make shots. They seem to give you more points when the ball goes in.

 

[docrugby1]

NU's offense does not generate any layups. Despite improved recruiting, there has not been anyone that can breakdown a defense off the dribble. There are very few cutters to create "confusion" . NU wastes 1/2 the shot clock with dribble exchanges above the 3 point line and never stresses the defense. Personnel or coaching, NU has to be more aggressive, you cannot rely on 3 point shots late in the shot clock

 

[NJCat]

NU's offense does not generate any layups. Despite improved recruiting, there has not been anyone that can breakdown a defense off the dribble. There are very few cutters to create "confusion" . NU wastes 1/2 the shot clock with dribble exchanges above the 3 point line and never stresses the defense. Personnel or coaching, NU has to be more aggressive, you cannot rely on 3 point shots late in the shot clock

You nailed it, Doc. With PG who looks like he can get to the rim maybe this will be the season NU actually can play offense.

 

[Medill90]

I don't think there's a lesson for Collins.

I think it's a lesson for the players. Sure, unselfish teams lose too. But they win more than they should.

 

[MysticCat]

Uber, I hope you don't mind me piggybacking your thread. I was going to ask this later, but I might as well start it now.

What can NU learn from Loyola this year? And please don't bore me with something as simple as "make shots." That's what I always despised about that phrase. When you watch Loyola there are several details they do precisely in the cut, pass, receiving the pass and decision-making to put themselves in a position to have a high shooting percentage.

This list may end up being too long but I'd like to give it a crack. Let me start.

1) Drive to the freakin' hoop to spread the defense. Richardson and Custer aren't mind-blowing with the ball, but they understand they need to drive to the basket to keep the defense honest and get room for their shot.

2) It's obvious how much better Loyola shares the ball. But especially when you don't catch the pass in a good shooting position, that is the ideal time to make the extra pass.

3) Trust your match-ups and don't become married to a single lineup. Everybody loves Krutwig and I don't blame them. But how many runs has this team gone on with Jackson in there.

I could probably write about this topic for an hour. What else is there?

1). Hand in the lineup before the game.

2). Stay off the court during the game.

3). Stop Creaning players after the game.

 

[Sec.112]

...I heard the LU rule is you have 1 second to drive, pass or shoot ...

... Coach Moser simply does not allow mistakes no matter who and or when ...

1) Quick decisions are a weakness that go far beyond NU. For the life of me, I don't understand why most teams aren't coached to quickly reverse the ball on 3/4 of their possessions. Four quick passes and the defense will rarely catch up to that fourth pass.

2) Allowing mistakes - I am not a fan at all of "I'm never going to tell anyone to stop shooting."

Too often this year, the Cats were encouraged to do things besides shooting based on faith and not actual production.

OTOH, one of the major differences is that Loyola had a bench that could make up for mediocre performances from starters.

 

[mikewebb68]

1). Hand in the lineup before the game.

2). Stay off the court during the game.

3). Stop Creaning players after the game.

And......Carmody sucks.

 

[mikewebb68]

I'd put 10 likes on that if I could, Willy. I HATE Mac's floater/tear drop.

I don't think I've seen one of those in Loyola"s run.

Yeah, those floaters didn't get us into the NCAA tournament or anything like that....

 

[Sec.112]

Now, Mystic, you go ahead and let the adults talk. I know criticism of Collins was your favorite toy, but you didnt know what to do with it. Go to your room and let us figure it out. Then you can pretend you offered something of substance for your next tantrum.

 

[backdoorpass]

2) Allowing mistakes - I am not a fan at all of "I'm never going to tell anyone to stop shooting."

Per kenpom, we were 228th in the country in eFG%. And this with a center who shot 62% from the floor. Why Pardon didn't have 10+ shot attempts every game, I will never understand. Meanwhile, we had multiple guys every game flinging up threes from Trae Young distance and BMac attempting to shoot across his body in the lane while the announcers continually pointed out what a difficult shot that is. It's no wonder we shot so poorly when you simply consider the shots we took.

We need to take better shots and create high percentage scoring opportunities.

This is coaching.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Uber, I hope you don't mind me piggybacking your thread. I was going to ask this later, but I might as well start it now.

What can NU learn from Loyola this year? And please don't bore me with something as simple as "make shots." That's what I always despised about that phrase. When you watch Loyola there are several details they do precisely in the cut, pass, receiving the pass and decision-making to put themselves in a position to have a high shooting percentage.

This list may end up being too long but I'd like to give it a crack. Let me start.

1) Drive to the freakin' hoop to spread the defense. Richardson and Custer aren't mind-blowing with the ball, but they understand they need to drive to the basket to keep the defense honest and get room for their shot.

2) It's obvious how much better Loyola shares the ball. But especially when you don't catch the pass in a good shooting position, that is the ideal time to make the extra pass.

3) Trust your match-ups and don't become married to a single lineup. Everybody loves Krutwig and I don't blame them. But how many runs has this team gone on with Jackson in there.

I could probably write about this topic for an hour. What else is there?

Loyola actually has an offense, where NU does not! NU offense is Mac turning the ball over or getting a floater, when time runs down, or Scottie shooting from the mid court line! That is why I cant wait to have Ash lead the offense next year. He will get the ball distributed correctly.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Per kenpom, we were 228th in the country in eFG%. And this with a center who shot 62% from the floor. Why Pardon didn't have 10+ shot attempts every game, I will never understand. Meanwhile, we had multiple guys every game flinging up threes from Trae Young distance and BMac attempting to shoot across his body in the lane while the announcers continually pointed out what a difficult shot that is. It's no wonder we shot so poorly when you simply consider the shots we took.

We need to take better shots and create high percentage scoring opportunities.

This is coaching.

you are absolutely right!

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

You nailed it, Doc. With PG who looks like he can get to the rim maybe this will be the season NU actually can play offense.

Heck ya! Ash had monster jams in most of the games!

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Loyola actually has an offense, where NU does not! NU offense is Mac turning the ball over or getting a floater, when time runs down, or Scottie shooting from the mid court line! That is why I cant wait to have Ash lead the offense next year. He will get the ball distributed correctly.

You’re going to be waiting a mighty long time.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Heck ya! Ash had monster jams in most of the games!

You are doing a disservice to both this board and the kid.

 

[Sec.112]

...[NU] tried to play a dribble penetrate offense with really only one guy who could dribble drive penetrate...

Two things, L-Cat.

1) I don't buy that BMac could be developed as the only guy who could penetrate. At worst, Lindsey should have been strong also.

But in the end, one offense encourages it and knows when and how to do it. The other doesn't.

2) Any ideas about the defensive differences? I can't put my finger on that. I completely agree with rwhitney's comment about "hands to the lights." I think Loyola also better recognizes its rules when to double and help. They are faster to those situations.

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Best thread I have seen on here in quite some time.

 

[NJCat]

Best thread I have seen on here in quite some time.

Tallest midget. Dang!!

 

[NUCat320]

I'll echo what others have written: what is apparent in watching NU (this season, and last season) is that NU's practice time is split significantly towards defense. On offense, NU rarely had a plan, and didn't even really seem to have a philosophy.

There was some hero ball, and there was some dump-downs to 'Rerk, but the only consistent thing (even in the tournament year) was that it wasn't very good.

NU's gotta find something to believe in on offense, whether drive/pass/shoot in one second, or seven seconds or less, or minimum four passes, or ... something. Anything but "stand far away from the senior so he has some room."

 

[IGNORE2]

Two things, L-Cat.

1) I don't buy that BMac could be developed as the only guy who could penetrate. At worst, Lindsey should have been strong also.

But in the end, one offense encourages it and knows when and how to do it. The other doesn't.

2) Any ideas about the defensive differences? I can't put my finger on that. I completely agree with rwhitney's comment about "hands to the lights." I think Loyola also better recognizes its rules when to double and help. They are faster to those situations.

Law has been a slasher. Lindsey should have been more of a slasher. Ash and Brown tried to be slasher, but too slow or small. Gaines better be a slasher. And I hope Lathom, Kopp and Nance salsh.

 

[loyolacat]

Two things, L-Cat.



2) Any ideas about the defensive differences? I can't put my finger on that. I completely agree with rwhitney's comment about "hands to the lights." I think Loyola also better recognizes its rules when to double and help. They are faster to those situations.

y
U R absolutely correct on the double teams and help....They have a very good idea of who they want to double, who they want to shoot from the other team, who they want to handle the ball. THey also work very hard at stopping ball reversal....someone else mentioned the importance of that....they do it on offense and prevent it on defense. There was also an article that said against Nevada ,,their locker room was covered with diagrams of all the plays Nevada would run and all the tendencies of their players....The LU guys said they played defense with such confidence because they felt so prepared for what the other team would do. I remember at a Q and A session with one of the Assistant Coaches, I asked how things had changed with the emphasis to not hand check,,,He went in to a 5 minute dissertation on hand position, foot position and how to use the chest!!! I still wonder about the ramifications of the loss of Pat Baldwin as an assistant coach at NU. We lost to UWM, I know our two top guards did not play in that game...but UWM just smothered us on defense....What were Baldwins responsibilities for the Cats? UM scares me,,,I like their coach and their players

 

[Medill90]

It's a lot easier getting to the basket when you have seven guys on the team shooting over 33% from three, and five of those -- FIVE -- shooting right on 39% or higher which Loyola has.

Roughly 38 percent of the shots Loyola takes are from distance and they convert at a rate that exceeds shooting .50 from two. They have done this consistently over a 30+ game schedule.

Loyola has excellent shooters, better than those on NU. We wanted NU to be excellent from three but, let's face it, they weren't.

FG% 3PTFG%
Loyola 51 40
NU 43 35

Making shots has a great effect on defense, it puts tremendous pressure on the opponent to execute and make shots. Loyola's defense isn't great, but its the pace and the shot making that have created Loyola's success.

Forget about the tournament wins. Loyola's numbers -- yes, even against MVC competition -- are pretty damn impressive for a season. Virtually everyone on the floor for Loyola at any time is a weapon.

Play selflessly and make shots. Not a complicated game.

 

[hdhntr1]

NU's offense does not generate any layups. Despite improved recruiting, there has not been anyone that can breakdown a defense off the dribble. There are very few cutters to create "confusion" . NU wastes 1/2 the shot clock with dribble exchanges above the 3 point line and never stresses the defense. Personnel or coaching, NU has to be more aggressive, you cannot rely on 3 point shots late in the shot clock

With LU, the ball is always moving. Wasn't so much that guys could always penetrate that far but by attacking guys defending would move and that would open up something else and after 3 or 4 of these, there would be a chance to get to the rim. They look to pass 200 times per game

 

[hdhntr1]

Uber, I hope you don't mind me piggybacking your thread. I was going to ask this later, but I might as well start it now.

What can NU learn from Loyola this year? And please don't bore me with something as simple as "make shots." That's what I always despised about that phrase. When you watch Loyola there are several details they do precisely in the cut, pass, receiving the pass and decision-making to put themselves in a position to have a high shooting percentage.

This list may end up being too long but I'd like to give it a crack. Let me start.

1) Drive to the freakin' hoop to spread the defense. Richardson and Custer aren't mind-blowing with the ball, but they understand they need to drive to the basket to keep the defense honest and get room for their shot.

2) It's obvious how much better Loyola shares the ball. But especially when you don't catch the pass in a good shooting position, that is the ideal time to make the extra pass.

3) Trust your match-ups and don't become married to a single lineup. Everybody loves Krutwig and I don't blame them. But how many runs has this team gone on with Jackson in there.

I could probably write about this topic for an hour. What else is there?

Hopefully a lot.

 

[hdhntr1]

1) Quick decisions are a weakness that go far beyond NU. For the life of me, I don't understand why most teams aren't coached to quickly reverse the ball on 3/4 of their possessions. Four quick passes and the defense will rarely catch up to that fourth pass.

2) Allowing mistakes - I am not a fan at all of "I'm never going to tell anyone to stop shooting."

Too often this year, the Cats were encouraged to do things besides shooting based on faith and not actual production.

OTOH, one of the major differences is that Loyola had a bench that could make up for mediocre performances from starters.

Injuries hurt us a lot there

 

[NUCat320]

Law has been a slasher. Lindsey should have been more of a slasher. Ash and Brown tried to be slasher, but too slow or small. Gaines better be a slasher. And I hope Lathom, Kopp and Nance salsh.

I don't view Law or Lindsey as slashers. Law in particular is an average ball handler.

 

[hdhntr1]

Per kenpom, we were 228th in the country in eFG%. And this with a center who shot 62% from the floor. Why Pardon didn't have 10+ shot attempts every game, I will never understand. Meanwhile, we had multiple guys every game flinging up threes from Trae Young distance and BMac attempting to shoot across his body in the lane while the announcers continually pointed out what a difficult shot that is. It's no wonder we shot so poorly when you simply consider the shots we took.

We need to take better shots and create high percentage scoring opportunities.

This is coaching.

eFG% has a lot to do with how well you hit 3s. We were fairly low in 3pt% and took a lot of shots so our eFG% would be low

 

[hdhntr1]

It's a lot easier getting to the basket when you have seven guys on the team shooting over 33% from three, and five of those -- FIVE -- shooting right on 39% or higher which Loyola has.

Roughly 38 percent of the shots Loyola takes are from distance and they convert at a rate that exceeds shooting .50 from two. They have done this consistently over a 30+ game schedule.

Loyola has excellent shooters, better than those on NU. We wanted NU to be excellent from three but, let's face it, they weren't.

FG% 3PTFG%
Loyola 51 40
NU 43 35

Making shots has a great effect on defense, it puts tremendous pressure on the opponent to execute and make shots. Loyola's defense isn't great, but its the pace and the shot making that have created Loyola's success.

Forget about the tournament wins. Loyola's numbers -- yes, even against MVC competition -- are pretty damn impressive for a season. Virtually everyone on the floor for Loyola at any time is a weapon.

Play selflessly and make shots. Not a complicated game.

They hit better than 33% from three because they were generally wide open shots. Sort of improves the %. Ours were often contested

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

Per kenpom, we were 228th in the country in eFG%. And this with a center who shot 62% from the floor. Why Pardon didn't have 10+ shot attempts every game, I will never understand. Meanwhile, we had multiple guys every game flinging up threes from Trae Young distance and BMac attempting to shoot across his body in the lane while the announcers continually pointed out what a difficult shot that is. It's no wonder we shot so poorly when you simply consider the shots we took.

We need to take better shots and create high percentage scoring opportunities.

This is coaching.

Although I really want to see pardon to get more touches he does struggle at times to pass out of the post especially when a double team is coming. That could be one reason we didn't always run the offense low to high. Although we should have used him a little bit more as he was definitely a scoring threat down their. He also needs to get a couple more back up moves to truly become a force on the low block. That's what made Hakeem so dangerous was that you couldn't really predict what post move he was gonna pull out. He needs 1-2 more that are as solid as that first go to with his left. Also really needs to work on the passing and senseing the double team this off-season. If he improves on the passing we could see a lot of low to high basketball which I will be very excited for.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I don't view Law or Lindsey as slashers. Law in particular is an average ball handler.

Lindsey was our closest thing to a "slasher". Law is a super athletic 3 and D guy with very good rebounding. He has the athletisim to be a "slasher" but ya needs to work on ball handling and when to drive.

 

[willycat]

Lindsey was our closest thing to a "slasher". Law is a super athletic 3 and D guy with very good rebounding. He has the athletisim to be a "slasher" but ya needs to work on ball handling and when to drive.

Lindsey was our closest thing to a "slasher". Law is a super athletic 3 and D guy with very good rebounding. He has the athletisim to be a "slasher" but ya needs to work on ball handling and when to drive.

True . I'm wondering how his health problems are progressing

 

[ricko654321]

Two things, L-Cat.

1) I don't buy that BMac could be developed as the only guy who could penetrate. At worst, Lindsey should have been strong also.

But in the end, one offense encourages it and knows when and how to do it. The other doesn't.

2) Any ideas about the defensive differences? I can't put my finger on that. I completely agree with rwhitney's comment about "hands to the lights." I think Loyola also better recognizes its rules when to double and help. They are faster to those situations.

On point 2- from what I've seen Loyola is not unsually good at on-ball defense at the point of attack. They get beat reasonably frequently. What they are exceptional at is recovering, and doing so without fouling. Both individually, and as a team via help and rotation. They know how to get back in position without giving that little bump that reflexively triggers a foul call from the refs in today's rules. And they also rebound better than you'd think they should given their relative size and jumping ability vs opponents.

On offense, I agree with what everyone else says - having lots of scoring options (their scoring balance is incredible!), multiple people who can drive and create shots, quick and smart decisions, good ball movement and shooting.