Assuming we get PBJ and stay with the current projected roster for 21-22, would PBJ possibly play for free? His family could afford the tuition for his first year as long as his dad is still coaching at Milwaukee.
Would PBJ not take a scholarship?
- Thread starter cedricmelons
- Start date
...why in the world would he do that when Duke will pay him to play for a year and then go pro?
It’s not just the scholarship, room, and meal plan. Isn’t Zion embroiled in some lawsuit where he might have to testify about impermissible benefits he received at Duke?
I’d think the first route would be not extending a 5th year to Anthony Gaines.
Of course I’d like to have Gaines for one more year, but Greer, Kopp and Nance would also be in their final year of eligibility, plus Young and Audige would be “fourth years” as redshirt juniors and could in theory graduate and move on (though I’d expect both would be welcomed back). All that is to say there’s a lot of upperclassmen in 2021-22. PBJ would balance that out.
I guess PBJ not taking a scholarship would be another route if he wanted to keep the roster around him as strong as possible. Though I think it’s reasonable to expect that by the time he’d set foot on campus, there would be one for him, given the prevalence of the transfer portal. Maybe Greer would opt to be a grad transfer where he can start?
PBJ will have a spot if he wants it, one way or another. I don’t think that applies to anyone else in the 2021 class, though (Bates, etc.).
Of course I’d like to have Gaines for one more year, but Greer, Kopp and Nance would also be in their final year of eligibility, plus Young and Audige would be “fourth years” as redshirt juniors and could in theory graduate and move on (though I’d expect both would be welcomed back). All that is to say there’s a lot of upperclassmen in 2021-22. PBJ would balance that out.
I guess PBJ not taking a scholarship would be another route if he wanted to keep the roster around him as strong as possible. Though I think it’s reasonable to expect that by the time he’d set foot on campus, there would be one for him, given the prevalence of the transfer portal. Maybe Greer would opt to be a grad transfer where he can start?
PBJ will have a spot if he wants it, one way or another. I don’t think that applies to anyone else in the 2021 class, though (Bates, etc.).
Last edited:
If PBJ decides to come to NU, that’d be one of the coolest moments in NU basketball history but (and I feel like is the minority opinion right now) I don’t want that to work because a player is forced out. I feel like if a player wants to return, then he should be allowed to do so. These guys, regardless of how much or little they have contributed on the court, have poured so much into the program and deserve the right to finish their career at NU if that is what they want.
Winning is important (and makes all of us more happy than losing) but I don’t want to achieve that by Creaning guys.
Winning is important (and makes all of us more happy than losing) but I don’t want to achieve that by Creaning guys.
No one would be forced out. Obtaining one’s degree and not being asked back for a 5th year is not being forced out. No one is guaranteed a 5th year. It’s the reverse of what Benson and Ash opted to do. They call it a grad transfer these days.
I think you’re probably right about Bates and Christie. I’m guessing the staff will still recruit them but might tap the breaks a bit, while the pedal will be to the metal for PBJ. We already have one of the top classes in the country, in the B1G, in the history of NU let’s make it truly incredible by adding you. A class for the ages!!
I've looked at 2022 mock NBA drafts and both Baldwin and Christie are in the top ten. So, both are one and done, unless they choose NU in which case...maybe two years.
So, Collins has been presented with a dilemma: leave two spots open, turn down hard commitments of top 150 talent and risk neither chooses NU. In making his decision he commits to really good talent that will be at NU for three or four years, versus (potentially) whatever Baldwin and Christie can do as frosh on a pretty senior roster.
We are sitting on July 1 so if that is the decision, I think it's the right one. I think Collins really likes what his roster looks like for the next five years.
But I think there are ways to get Baldwin and Christie onto the roster, if they signal they want to come. It may be clunky and unpopular, but not one of the other Big Ten teams would be stymied.
So, Collins has been presented with a dilemma: leave two spots open, turn down hard commitments of top 150 talent and risk neither chooses NU. In making his decision he commits to really good talent that will be at NU for three or four years, versus (potentially) whatever Baldwin and Christie can do as frosh on a pretty senior roster.
We are sitting on July 1 so if that is the decision, I think it's the right one. I think Collins really likes what his roster looks like for the next five years.
But I think there are ways to get Baldwin and Christie onto the roster, if they signal they want to come. It may be clunky and unpopular, but not one of the other Big Ten teams would be stymied.
I don't think PBJ + Christie is a package deal. Which is why Collins has played this exactly right. He now has 3 Top 150 players to fill the 3 open scholarships, and has some flexibility if one (PBJ) wants to pave his own path and choose NU over the likes of Duke. PBJ more or less knows exactly who he'll be playing with if he chooses NU:
Guards: Ty Berry (Soph.)/Boo Buie (Jr.)/Julian Roper (Fr.)/Brooks Barnheizer (Fr.)/Ryan Greer (Sr.)
Wings: Miller Kopp (Sr.)/Anthony Gaines (RS Sr.)/Chase Audige (RS Jr.)/Casey Simmons (Fr.)
Stretch 4s: Pete Nance (Sr.)/Robbie Beran (Jr.)
Bigs: Ryan Young (RS Jr.)/Matthew Nicholson (Soph.)
Possibly no Gaines or no Greer. Either way, that is... pretty darn good and pretty darn deep. Any number of lineups that PBJ could slot into.
I agree with most of what's been said, but I do think that Christie, PBJ, and even Bates would all be welcomed into the program should they want to join. As many of you said, the simplest solution would be for Gaines to grad transfer, but it is also reasonable that Greer would take his degree (if he can complete it) and go somewhere he can provide meaningful minutes...just dont see how he will get time with all of the talented guards we have coming into the program. Lastly, I don't think it is unfathomable to think that if Nance develops into the player we want him to be that Ryan Young decides to pack up and go elsewhere.
I think CC played his cards exactly right here in securing a solid class early with the hopes to entice one more. I think getting Bates, PBJ, or Christie (ordered by who I think is most to least likely to come here) would be a net gain for the program, and CC has shown (Rap, Isiah, etc.) that he's not afraid to make a tough move that is better for the program...at least in his mind.
I think CC played his cards exactly right here in securing a solid class early with the hopes to entice one more. I think getting Bates, PBJ, or Christie (ordered by who I think is most to least likely to come here) would be a net gain for the program, and CC has shown (Rap, Isiah, etc.) that he's not afraid to make a tough move that is better for the program...at least in his mind.
Young ain't taking a backseat to Nance or anyone! He's tough!
It’s part of the game now. Anybody who takes a power 5 scholarship knows the deal. And it’s usually no big deal, although CC did botch it really, really badly once before.... hopefully he’s figured out you gotta have some tact and not falsify internship time cards!
You used to post under another name. Good that you're here regardless of how you identify yourself.
I love this post. Greer reclassified and came a year early after we lost Lathon, and if we get another big recruit, he can simply pack up. Same for Young, who has been better and more consistent than any big man currently on the team. After all, it’s a business and players have to understand that — except for when they ask for wages and the ability to transfer without penalty for their own reasons.
I think they'd take PBJ or Christie, but no one below a 5-star, can't miss, type of talent at this point. If those guys don't come, I think they'll be happy with a 5th year from Gaines and even a 4th year from Greer.
I have a hard time seeing PBJ coming to Northwestern without a scholarship. While his Dad is a former NU player and assistant coach, it would be difficult to see Dad picking up the tab to pay NU when PBJ could go be with Dad in Milwaukee for free or go to a high major program under scholarship. If PBJ has some emotional attachment to NU from his Dad and being around the university as a kid and he actually did make that sacrifice for NU basketball it would be really great, but probably highly unlikely and more or less an NU pipe dream. The best scenario I see for NU is that PBJ does have homegrown affinity for NU, but comes to the program on scholarship.
Last edited:
No one said Greer could just “pack up.”
If he is getting less than 10 minutes a game playing behind sophomores and freshmen — which will happen in all likelihood — would it not make sense for a smart student-athlete to wrap up the NU undergraduate degree and get a free year of grad school elsewhere? Especially if you wanted a year of being a bigger fish in a smaller pond? We’ve seen this before — Benson comes to mind. No hard feelings, it is what it is.
Obviously if Greer did not want to go that route, and accepted his role of playing ~5 mins a game as a senior and mentoring the younger guys, he should be welcomed back with open arms.
If PBJ wanted to wear purple so bad, he'd play with no scholarship, wouldn't he have committed already?
It's pretty apparent that Collins had a date in mind, after which he had to sign players and avoid the recent NU history of being 2-3 scholarship players down.
He's hedged his bets a bit, and could accommodate one of the two (PBJ or MC) readily, with the second being more difficult. The second would rely on a player leaving after this coming year, which has happened fairly consistently, though no certainty.
Baldwin or Christie would be unusual in that they'd be gone so quickly. But would help with recruiting to replace Nance, Kopp and (Baldwin and/or Christie).
No doubt either would help the team their frosh year, but it's going to be a pretty good team without them.
I would just add that this staff does well in identifying talent in this range, guys who straddle three and four stars just past the "top 100."
He's hedged his bets a bit, and could accommodate one of the two (PBJ or MC) readily, with the second being more difficult. The second would rely on a player leaving after this coming year, which has happened fairly consistently, though no certainty.
Baldwin or Christie would be unusual in that they'd be gone so quickly. But would help with recruiting to replace Nance, Kopp and (Baldwin and/or Christie).
No doubt either would help the team their frosh year, but it's going to be a pretty good team without them.
I would just add that this staff does well in identifying talent in this range, guys who straddle three and four stars just past the "top 100."
How about another possibility, dad gets hired back to NU and son then doesn't need a scholarship. Assistant coach or assistant to the AD?
I think it's a real long-shot to think Greer could have his degree by June 2021. Sure, some players have pulled it off in three years, but Greer faces additional challenges. This is all speculation but 1) He graduated early from high school making it less likely that he had a chance to come in with a whole bunch of AP credits, and 2) With everyone away from campus because of Covid-19, I would think it would be much harder to get the extra classes needed to finish in three years.
We can argue whether it would be worth pushing Greer off the team in favor of a superstar recruit, but let's not delude ourselves into thinking he would graduate just to ease our consciences. If I'm wrong, and there's evidence that he's somehow is on track to graduate by June of 2021, then wow, kudos to him, and I'll just shut up.
In the past, I'm the first guy to say NU needs to act more like a big-boy program. But in my world, that doesn't include pushing good soldiers out the door like Greer and Gaines ... ESPECIALLY Gaines.
I could see the argument for Greer, but he helped the staff and probably hurt his own development by leaving high school early. The kid deserves some loyalty.
Top 20 commit or not, if the staff doesn't like the way Greer developed, f them. They've had two chances to leave room for the possibility of PBJ or Christie - when Greer committed and in this class.
Now, part of this falls on Greer. He will probably be given the "We don't see a lot of playing time for you" speech between his junior and senior year. If he truly wants to stay, he has to have enough cajones to say, "I appreciate that, coach. But I'm devoted to the hard work and the program, I'm staying, and I'm going to earn more playing time."
In the end, this staff is pretty good at understanding when they fall off the radar for recruits. I assume getting two guys like Simmons and Barnhizer in one week reflects their ideas on their chances for PBJ and Christie.
I could see the argument for Greer, but he helped the staff and probably hurt his own development by leaving high school early. The kid deserves some loyalty.
Top 20 commit or not, if the staff doesn't like the way Greer developed, f them. They've had two chances to leave room for the possibility of PBJ or Christie - when Greer committed and in this class.
Now, part of this falls on Greer. He will probably be given the "We don't see a lot of playing time for you" speech between his junior and senior year. If he truly wants to stay, he has to have enough cajones to say, "I appreciate that, coach. But I'm devoted to the hard work and the program, I'm staying, and I'm going to earn more playing time."
In the end, this staff is pretty good at understanding when they fall off the radar for recruits. I assume getting two guys like Simmons and Barnhizer in one week reflects their ideas on their chances for PBJ and Christie.
Think they are still perusing both PBJ and Christie and also remember that 5th scholarship year is not guaranteed.
I was and remain a supporter of Greer.
I don't get the negative vibe here. Bumpy frosh year, no doubt. But when he got in last year, he was a competent PG and adequate sub.
And Greer isn't young for his class. He was held back in H.S. so he could develop....and then jumped a year for the NU offer. He gradated with his class.
I hope Greer stays all four years. I enjoy watching his game. Maybe not the model of a 2020 lead guard, but he's a prototypical PG. I also think with Pat Spencer gone he'll see more time this year.
I don't get the negative vibe here. Bumpy frosh year, no doubt. But when he got in last year, he was a competent PG and adequate sub.
And Greer isn't young for his class. He was held back in H.S. so he could develop....and then jumped a year for the NU offer. He gradated with his class.
I hope Greer stays all four years. I enjoy watching his game. Maybe not the model of a 2020 lead guard, but he's a prototypical PG. I also think with Pat Spencer gone he'll see more time this year.
Last edited:
I see it exactly reversed. If you have a 5-star recruit like PBJ or Christie, where the stars align and they have family ties, you have to be matter-of-fact and tell Gaines the 5th year is not guaranteed and you'll do whatever you can to help him land elsewhere. That is a non-sleazy option. And I believe CCC (rightfully, imo) will not hesitate to use it if PBJ or Christie decide they want the NU experience.
Forcing Greer out, especially if he hasn't yet graduated, would be No Bueno.
Over the last 3-4 years, NU is averaging 1+ transfer each year.
Rap
Brown
Ash
Benson
Falzon
Jones
If one (or both) of the legacies commit, you take them and figure it out later.
Odds are, a spot will open up.
In regards to Gaines, say nothing until he's done with this coming year.
Zero chance. It's not about the whether someone "needs" a scholarship; it's the most basic sign of respect for a recruit.
Collins will have one ready for Baldwin Jr. if he wants to commit to NU.
Exactly! You can't force players out! I remember when fifth year ,1,000 yard rusher,Adrian Autrey didn't come back!
Players like PBJ are already giving up millions (by not being able to head to the NBA right away) and is giving up hundreds of thousands whether that's playing overseas or for the D-league.
No way they are paying for tuition and R&B.
No way they are paying for tuition and R&B.
I’m possibly in the minority here, but I have no issue with encouraging Greer to find other options if he’s the odd man out. Scholarships, I believe, are never promised for 4 years, much less 5. They are renewable year to year. And if Greer cannot contribute in a meaningful way given the roster make up, he will probably elect to either move on for basketball, or if he wants his NU degree, he can leave the team and either pay his own way, or NU and Collins can find a way to take care of him with an academic scholarship of some sort. Even the latter, I’m not sure there is any obligation moral or otherwise. I have no problem with either approach - no one is booting him from the school. If I’m not mistaken, even Johnnie Vassar was able to finish up his degree at NU, and on University expense. There’s no obligation to keep a kid on the team for 4 years if he cannot contribute meaningfully, nor should there be.
You couldn’t be more wrong...
“The Big Ten became the first major college conference to guarantee scholarships across all sports through the duration of an athlete’s enrollment at a university.
In a statement released Wednesday, the Big Ten said scholarships won’t be reduced or cancelled as long as an athlete "remains a member in good standing with the community, the university and the athletics department." The Big Ten also said it would guarantee an athlete may return to school at any time on an athletic scholarship if the athlete’s pursuit for an undergraduate degree is "interrupted for a bona fide reason."
https://www.cbssports.com/college-f...t-major-conference-to-guarantee-scholarships/
OK, I stand corrected. Although not sure what good standing with athletic department means (if a kid isn’t considered a meaningful contributor athletically, would he be in good standing?)
Looks like then, the only chance is to convince Greer that for basketball reasons he might move on for the mutual benefit of the program and himself (if he cares about PT). Or does this preclude the possibility that Greer could be taken care of like Vassar was on academic scholarship to complete his studies at NU, but he doesn’t have to be a part of the team or count?
And does this guarantee a 5th year? I would hope not.
Only 4 years are guaranteed and good standing is not impacted by competitiveness (or health) of the athlete. Athletes would have to agree to transition to an academic scholarship and may lose out on some academic support, etc as well.
I think it sucks to run a guy off that in theory complied with the terms of his scholarship. CCC recruited, offered and accepted him as a player for the team he Coaches.
