And now we wait....and wait....

[NJCat83588]

What's a better product, NJ? Is it a better offense? Is it a more entertaining day? Is it winning football games?

Obviously wining is #1. Was delighted with 10-3.

I loved watching the defense much of the season. No improvement necessary.

I'd like to see an offense that was imaginative and puts points on the board. More than last in the Big 10. A better passing offense than last in the Big 10. The last few season the offense has really been bad, with notable exceptions being ND in 2014 and the third quarter against BSU last season. I'd like to see the offense play like Syracuse 2013 consistently. That was a good product.

 

[mikewebb68]

If Fitz doesn't make any changes, then I'd like to hear him explain how things will be different next year. My recollection is that teams started pressing our WRs with man coverage back in 2012. It was the Nebraska game at home that year in which Pelini had his DBs play tight man coverage, and it worked very effectively. Siemian ended up 15 of 35 passing, for 116 yards. There really weren't any open receivers most of the game, and he got a lot of pressure from the pass rush. That set the blueprint for opposing teams' defenses, and here we are 3-1/2 years later still debating about what the problem is. Defenses dare our WRs to beat them in man coverage. We couldn't do it three years ago, and we still can't do it. More of the same in 2016?

I'll explain:

1) More experienced QB that may actually get to work out with more than two of his starting WRs over the summer (Cam and C. Jones were hurt). CT only began to develop a rhythm with ONE receiver this year (Nagel) and as soon as he did Nagel was injured
2) Extensive turnover at our weakest position group (WR). When a group is good, turnover is bad, and when a group is good, turnover is typically good.
3) The move of Vault to WR (assuming it is a permanent move)

 

[corbi296]

I'll explain:

1) More experienced QB that may actually get to work out with more than two of his starting WRs over the summer (Cam and C. Jones were hurt). CT only began to develop a rhythm with ONE receiver this year (Nagel) and as soon as he did Nagel was injured
2) Extensive turnover at our weakest position group (WR). When a group is good, turnover is bad, and when a group is good, turnover is typically good.
3) The move of Vault to WR (assuming it is a permanent move)

You are dreaming.

 

[mikewebb68]

I too don't have a clue if McCall should go. But there is no inherent logic in keeping coaches because because we we're coming off a 10-3 season. It is simply not the point. Our offense stunk, STUNK. And has for three solid years now. This is Colby territory. Had we had a better offense, even slightly better, we may well have run the table.

Three solid years? Our offense in 2013 was averaging nearly 40 ppg until the Wisconsin game, when it was completely trainwrecked by injury. And did our rushing offense STINK this year? Not Colby territory at all, imo.

 

[mikewebb68]

You are dreaming.

Care to elaborate beyond sarcasm? Do QBs get WORSE with experience and working with WRs? Is tunover at an underperforming position a group a GOOD thing?

 

[mikewebb68]

The counter-argument here, as you know, is that the offense was dead last in the B1G in 2015, despite the team winning 10 games. The previous two seasons weren't much better, and even in 2012, with V. Mark at RB and the two-headed monster at QB, our offense was just middle of the pack in the conference. I think the goal needs to be to have a top-ranked offense which is average in "bad" years, not an average offense in "good" years and a terrible one the rest of the time. If our defense can be at or near the top of the B1G, then why can't we expect the same thing from our offense?

We averaged nearly 32 ppg in 2012 against a schedule loaded with excellent defensive team. I would classify that as "good" as opposed to middle of the pack. Those ppg dropped dramatically in 2013, even after we started out averaging 40 ppg in our first five (nearly as high as the CUMULATIVE drop from 2013-2015) due to our offense being absolutely blown up by injuries,

 

[stpaulcat]

Three solid years? Our offense in 2013 was averaging nearly 40 ppg until the Wisconsin game, when it was completely trainwrecked by injury. And did our rushing offense STINK this year? Not Colby territory at all, imo.

How many games did we win in 2013? Did we go to a bowl game? Our offense was not good enough to even get us to .500. Yeah, we weren't looking bad until tOSU popped the balloon--but from there on it has been an offensive free fall. That's on the players? The defense should not have to bail out the offense every game. I didn't say our rushing offense stunk this year. I said our offense stunk this year. It stunk! One great running back, an offense does not make. Enough problems to question the coaching--for (nearly) three years now. There may be only one thing wrong with this offense--the WR, but until it's fixed, how will we know? I do not see player development and that suggests coaching. How the heck did we trash one of the best spread offenses in the country? The players did that? Maybe McCall is hamstrung in his play calling by a couple aspects of the offense and he really can call a game, but if that is true, isn't it his responsibility to fix the stuff that is wrong? He hasn't done so. This looks like a coaching problem, but whatever it is, fix something! And be forthright about it.

 

[mikewebb68]

How many games did we win in 2013? Did we go to a bowl game? Our offense was not good enough to even get us to .500. Yeah, we weren't looking bad until tOSU popped the balloon--but from there on it has been an offensive free fall. That's on the players? The defense should not have to bail out the offense every game. I didn't say our rushing offense stunk this year. I said our offense stunk this year. It stunk! One great running back, an offense does not make. Enough problems to question the coaching--for (nearly) three years now. There may be only one thing wrong with this offense--the WR, but until it's fixed, how will we know? I do not see player development and that suggests coaching. How the heck did we trash one of the best spread offenses in the country? The players did that? Maybe McCall is hamstrung in his play calling by a couple aspects of the offense and he really can call a game, but if that is true, isn't it his responsibility to fix the stuff that is wrong? He hasn't done so. This looks like a coaching problem, but whatever it is, fix something! And be forthright about it.

So the injuries to all our skill position players after OSU in 2013 and the massive dropoff in offensive production for the remainder of that year was due to -- coaching? Just don't see that, sry. And I do believe that the free fall since that OSU game (more a freefall in that year, less of a decline since then) has been primarily due to injuries, and a lack of talent at the WR postion partially due to some recruiting misses exacerbated by the recruitment of wonderful secondary players who could have helped us at WR but were asked to play defense instead because the need was felt to be greater. Can these things be fixed without firing McCall? Yes, I believe so. Don't know as much about Springer to make that assessment, but confident that Fitz and Philips know far more than me (and most people on this board) as to the metrics behind whether Springer should stay or go.

Your post indicates a lot of frustration, as echoed by other posters here. To me that reflects a lack of confidence in our coaching staff overall (not just McCall,/Springer/Cushing), but I have the confidence in that staff that all neccessary action will be taken to right the ship offensively, just as I had the confidence that everything would be done last year to improve upon our 5-7 record. And what do you know? Our record DID improve. Just a bit. Even with a redshirt freshman QB and deficient WR corps...

 

[hoosboot]

How many games did we win in 2013? Did we go to a bowl game? Our offense was not good enough to even get us to .500. Yeah, we weren't looking bad until tOSU popped the balloon--but from there on it has been an offensive free fall. That's on the players? The defense should not have to bail out the offense every game. I didn't say our rushing offense stunk this year. I said our offense stunk this year. It stunk! One great running back, an offense does not make. Enough problems to question the coaching--for (nearly) three years now. There may be only one thing wrong with this offense--the WR, but until it's fixed, how will we know? I do not see player development and that suggests coaching. How the heck did we trash one of the best spread offenses in the country? The players did that? Maybe McCall is hamstrung in his play calling by a couple aspects of the offense and he really can call a game, but if that is true, isn't it his responsibility to fix the stuff that is wrong? He hasn't done so. This looks like a coaching problem, but whatever it is, fix something! And be forthright about it.

Cue the ever-changing happiness metric. You complained about the offense, so he pointed to a time when the offense being better, but you didn't like that. That offense didn't win enough games. We won 10 games this year, but that wasn't good enough because you didn't like the offense. It seems like maybe you just like to be unhappy.

 

[stpaulcat]

Cue the ever-changing happiness metric. You complained about the offense, so he pointed to a time when the offense being better, but you didn't like that. That offense didn't win enough games. We won 10 games this year, but that wasn't good enough because you didn't like the offense. It seems like maybe you just like to be unhappy.

No, I was at NU when Ara Parsegian was the coach and I fondly remember a balanced football team, coincidently with an amazing offense. Maybe I just like to live in the past.

I think 10-3 is terrific. However, I traveled from Minnesota for the Iowa game, as I have season tickets, after being in the hospital during the Stanford game (so I missed that amazing win). I have NEVER left an NU game early, until Iowa this year. It was depressing to a degree that I never want to experience first hand again at an NU game. I have fond memories also of the cardiac cats. These were the cardiac arrest cats. No excuses can cover this.

 

[mikewebb68]

No, I was at NU when Ara Parsegian was the coach and I fondly remember a balanced football team, coincidently with an amazing offense. Maybe I just like to live in the past.

I think 10-3 is terrific. However, I traveled from Minnesota for the Iowa game, as I have season tickets, after being in the hospital during the Stanford game (so I missed that amazing win). I have NEVER left an NU game early, until Iowa this year. It was depressing to a degree that I never want to experience first hand again at an NU game. I have fond memories also of the cardiac cats. These were the cardiac arrest cats. No excuses can cover this.

Guessing you didn't go to games during the Dark Ages?

 

[hoosboot]

No, I was at NU when Ara Parsegian was the coach and I fondly remember a balanced football team, coincidently with an amazing offense. Maybe I just like to live in the past.

I think 10-3 is terrific. However, I traveled from Minnesota for the Iowa game, as I have season tickets, after being in the hospital during the Stanford game (so I missed that amazing win). I have NEVER left an NU game early, until Iowa this year. It was depressing to a degree that I never want to experience first hand again at an NU game. I have fond memories also of the cardiac cats. These were the cardiac arrest cats. No excuses can cover this.

Wow. You went to a game where we lost badly. That's awful. I want to personally apologize to you for having to suffer so. Maybe next year we can trade a couple of wins to insure a closer "cardiac cats" game for you. I'd hate for you to be so disappointed again.

 

[stpaulcat]

Wow. You went to a game where we lost badly. That's awful. I want to personally apologize to you for having to suffer so. Maybe next year we can trade a couple of wins to insure a closer "cardiac cats" game for you. I'd hate for you to be so disappointed again.

I might point out that there were probably 15-20k other people (assuming NU was half of the crowd) equally depressed. Sure, we lose--you think that is my point, that this was about my disappointment? I was at the OSU game where this slide began, and while a very difficult loss, the team played their hearts out. Iowa this year, not so. The offense didn't even show up. Likewise at the Outback bowl. Even though the game is about winning, I'd rather have a team that shows up for every game and plays their hearts out than a team that goes 10-3 and shows up for only some of them. I was also at Purdue and the way we played could easily have lost that one--but we were better than them and didn't--it was not a particularly fun game to watch because of our impotent offense. NU has real problems with the offense and it's been going on long enough to be noticeable to almost everyone-- that's my only point. And, coaching has to be part of this.

 

[hoosboot]

I might point out that there were probably 15-20k other people (assuming NU was half of the crowd) equally depressed. Sure, we lose--you think that is my point, that this was about my disappointment? I was at the OSU game where this slide began, and while a very difficult loss, the team played their hearts out. Iowa this year, not so. The offense didn't even show up. Likewise at the Outback bowl. Even though the game is about winning, I'd rather have a team that shows up for every game and plays their hearts out than a team that goes 10-3 and shows up for only some of them. I was also at Purdue and the way we played could easily have lost that one--but we were better than them and didn't--it was not a particularly fun game to watch because of our impotent offense. NU has real problems with the offense and it's been going on long enough to be noticeable to almost everyone-- that's my only point. And, coaching has to be part of this.

It wasn't fun? Man, that really stinks. Again, I'm really sorry. Let's see if there's anyone we can call to make sure the guys playing do right by you next time. If only the kids giving their entire lives to this cared as much as you to "show up" (particularly on the three or four Saturdays they knew you were going to, you know, show up.)

 

[Alaskawildkat]

Despite Lake The Posts having gone off the air, it is interesting to see this article on the subject of coaching changes from a year ago survives:

The concluding comment from the article:

"Despite the fact Northwestern football still has a long way to go to make Ryan Field a home field advantage on par with many of its B1G competitors, one of the changes in the fan base has been higher expectations, expectations that Pat Fitzgerald has encouraged fans to have since no one has higher expectations than he does. I believe that’s a very good thing, regardless of anyone’s personal opinion on the specifics of the situation, and according to Teddy Greenstein’s fan thermometer it’s a relatively decisive sentiment:

“Big picture 99% of us think Fitz is the right guy, but I’d say 75% or more want to see changes.” "

Link for the full article:

http://www.laketheposts.com/2014/12/15/coaching-changes-vs-status-quo/

 

[stpaulcat]

It wasn't fun? Man, that really stinks. Again, I'm really sorry. Let's see if there's anyone we can call to make sure the guys playing do right by you next time. If only the kids giving their entire lives to this cared as much as you to "show up" (particularly on the three or four Saturdays they knew you were going to, you know, show up.)

Okay, so now we know this is your schtick, you've made your point that this is all about me and what the kids can do for me. If I were giving up my season tickets or something because I'm so personally disappointed and because it's not fun when we lose, you might be able to argue that. How else do you judge something but by your response to it? When we got blown out at Camp Randall after Persa went down by the Wisconsin team that went to the Rose Bowl as a result of that victory, the result of that game was understandable at least, in spite of the spectacle of 60k Wisconsin fans jumping up and down like lunatics celebrating. So I wasn't present during the Dark Ages, and maybe you were, so you have the perspective of losing every week and maybe you played during that time? My suspicion (and it is only that, I have no proof) now is the "kids" are being let down by certain of their coaches to a degree. I support Fitz and believe by and large he is doing a good if not great job, but like any of us who run a business, part of his job for which he is paid millions is to not let loyalty trump performance. So, for the privilege of making millions, the performance of his team gets to be critiqued. At the same time, he has managed to field an absolutely great, stunningly good defense. Don't you find that effort being dragged down by what appears to be an offense that is only partially well coached to be something to question? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that is my observation.

 

[willycat]

No, your post is a distortion. His playbook is not designed for receivers who can't break M2M coverage. What offense is?

OK, then guess he needs to get new receivers or a new QB or just maybe a new WR coach or he needs to burn the 2013-2014-2015 playbook and attend lots and lots of coaching clinics. Do you actually watch when other teams just carve up M2M coverage? Maybe passes over the top would work, you think?

 

[gocatsgo2003]

OK, then guess he needs to get new receivers or a new QB or just maybe a new WR coach or he needs to burn the 2013-2014-2015 playbook and attend lots and lots of coaching clinics. Do you actually watch when other teams just carve up M2M coverage? Maybe passes over the top would work, you think?

Do you ever watch how much better the personnel at WR is at 99% of BCS schools? Plenty of problems in the WR room, but the solutions have to start with getting better players.

 

[stpaulcat]

I'm now optimistic. I believe we would have heard by now if status quo is to be maintained. If we don't here anything by the coach's convention, I think that will be very good news--expect a press conference or news release within two weeks after announcing change.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

OK, then guess he needs to get new receivers or a new QB or just maybe a new WR coach or he needs to burn the 2013-2014-2015 playbook and attend lots and lots of coaching clinics. Do you actually watch when other teams just carve up M2M coverage? Maybe passes over the top would work, you think?

Do you know how to break M2M coverage? You have to win 1-on-1 matchups. You have to beat the jam.

How do you think "other teams just carve up M2M coverage," genius? You have to beat your defender. You have to be on the same page as your QB. You have to catch the ball when it's thrown to you.

Do YOU actually ever pay attention? So according to you, we should throw "over the top" against soft M2M coverage, too? Or is it all the same to you? Talk about bringing a knife to a gunfight in this argument, silly willy.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Do you ever watch how much better the personnel at WR is at 99% of BCS schools? Plenty of problems in the WR room, but the solutions have to start with getting better players.

Yeah but how exactly do you do that? Moreover, how are we getting it wrong? It seems like some of our recruiting targets are more than able but we're losing them to other schools. It seems to be our back-up plans that never pan out and where does the fault for that lie, GCG?

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Okay, so now we know this is your schtick, you've made your point that this is all about me and what the kids can do for me. If I were giving up my season tickets or something because I'm so personally disappointed and because it's not fun when we lose, you might be able to argue that. How else do you judge something but by your response to it? When we got blown out at Camp Randall after Persa went down by the Wisconsin team that went to the Rose Bowl as a result of that victory, the result of that game was understandable at least, in spite of the spectacle of 60k Wisconsin fans jumping up and down like lunatics celebrating. So I wasn't present during the Dark Ages, and maybe you were, so you have the perspective of losing every week and maybe you played during that time? My suspicion (and it is only that, I have no proof) now is the "kids" are being let down by certain of their coaches to a degree. I support Fitz and believe by and large he is doing a good if not great job, but like any of us who run a business, part of his job for which he is paid millions is to not let loyalty trump performance. So, for the privilege of making millions, the performance of his team gets to be critiqued. At the same time, he has managed to field an absolutely great, stunningly good defense. Don't you find that effort being dragged down by what appears to be an offense that is only partially well coached to be something to question? If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but that is my observation.

I don't see why people are getting upset with you. You left the Iowa game because our offense was depressing and in such contrast with our awesome defense. I'm sure that you would not enjoyed a 56-0 Dark Ages blowout, either, but at least you don't come into that kind of match-up expecting to see a totally inept offense that SHOULD be better. Amirite?

 

[stpaulcat]

I don't see why people are getting upset with you. You left the Iowa game because our offense was depressing and in such contrast with our awesome defense. I'm sure that you would not enjoyed a 56-0 Dark Ages blowout, either, but at least you don't come into that kind of match-up expecting to see a totally inept offense that SHOULD be better. Amirite?

I attended only ONE Dark Ages game--against Minnesota, in the rain, and NU WON. I certainly didn't expect that. Technically I never experienced the Dark Ages. Like Rumple Stiltskin, I woke up after the Notre Dame game in 1995. Since then, I have come to expect good offense. When it doesn't happen, I whine and complain. Totally justified, now that we "Expect Victory." Fitz and his defensive coaching staff deserve great credit for putting together the remarkable current defense. Let's hope that continues, and they can also get the offense on track!

 

[Cat In The Cradle]

Sometimes I wonder if we're all cheering for the same team.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Sometimes I wonder if we're all cheering for the same team.

I only cheer for the Northwestern Wildcats when they are winning. When they are losing, I am not a fan. After losses, I jingle my car keys at Pat Fitzgerald as he gets into his expensive SUV. He says, "Go cats" and I say, "Only when you win!" He smiles and I jingle my keys furiously.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Do you ever watch how much better the personnel at WR is at 99% of BCS schools? Plenty of problems in the WR room, but the solutions have to start with getting better players.

Somehow, we were able to make walk-ons, former QBs, and other lightly recruited players with only MAC Offers (including IU and Illinois) into All-Big 10 or at least very dependable receivers. The talent (in terms of offers and star ratings) has been stronger in the last couple years, with a 5 star and a couple 4 stars on the roster, something we never had back in the day.

 

[EvanstonCat]

I only cheer for the Northwestern Wildcats when they are winning. When they are losing, I am not a fan. After losses, I jingle my car keys at Pat Fitzgerald as he gets into his expensive SUV. He says, "Go cats" and I say, "Only when you win!" He smiles and I jingle my keys furiously.

I'm a fan regardless of wins or losses. When we win, I cheer. I'm a happy fan. When we lose, I fume, bitch, and demand people to be fired. I'm an angry fan. That's what most fans are like, like it or not.

Fans don't generally just take it in stride when their team loses or does less than they could. They don't just say "that's ok, you tried your best, I'm proud of you." Those would be Pop Warner parents, not fans.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Somehow, we were able to make walk-ons, former QBs, and other lightly recruited players with only MAC Offers (including IU and Illinois) into All-Big 10 or at least very dependable receivers. The talent (in terms of offers and star ratings) has been stronger in the last couple years, with a 5 star and a couple 4 stars on the roster, something we never had back in the day.

Not disagreeing that a coaching change seems warranted, but I think the biggest takeaway from your post is "star ratings are stupid."

 

[DaCat]

It seems about 4-5 years ago our staff made a conscious decision to go after big, physical receivers. just off the the top of my head, I can think of guys who are at least 6'1 like Rashad Lawrence, Cam Dickerson, Christian Jones, Pierre Y-A, McHugh, Scanlan, Fuessel, Macan Wilson... Some were injured, some did not pan out at the FBS level (development issue or talent issue? nature vs. nurture) but this happens at all the college football programs. What jumped out at me as I dug deeper is that our recruiting had a dry spell at WR for about 3 consecutive classes from 2012-2014. In fact, here are our WR recruits since 2010, with the ones who have contributed at the WR position significantly in bold:

• 2010 - Jimmy Hall, Tony Jones, Rashad Lawrence. Note: Hall was moved to D.
• 2011 - Cam Dickerson, Christian Jones, Pierre Youngblood-Ary
• 2012 - Stephen Buckley (ATH), Mike McHugh, Andrew Scanlan
• 2013 - Tommy Fuessel (ATH), Macan Wilson
• 2014 - Nate Hall, Solomon Vault (ATH). Note: Hall moved to D, Vault has played mostly as RB
• 2015 - Charles Fessler, Cameron Green, Flynn Nagel, Jelani Roberts. Nagel showed promise before injury.
• 2016 verbals - Ramaud Chiakhiao-Bowman, Riley Lees, Ben Skowronek

Poor recruiting? Bad luck? Poor development? In fact our best receiver this past season was walk-on Austin Carr (and transfer Kyle Prater the year before that). Not necessarily a bad thing with the walk-on -- see Markshausen -- but if it's a tallest midget situation then, yeah, not good.

It looks like we have made a concerted effort to beef up our WR corps in the last two recruiting classes, with a mix of big physical receivers (Fessler, Green, Skowronek, RCB) and smaller speedy guys (Nagel, Roberts, Lees). This group is a big upgrade in talent IMO over what we had the past 3-4 years. The question remains: is Springer the right coach to develop this group of receivers?

 

[EvanstonCat]

To that point, the lack of offensive production isn't lost on recruits. They may see it as beneficial.

I think the type of recruits that would see it as beneficial are probably not the types of recruits that are gonna carry us to the next level.

 

[shakes3858]

It seems about 4-5 years ago our staff made a conscious decision to go after big, physical receivers. just off the the top of my head, I can think of guys who are at least 6'1 like Rashad Lawrence, Cam Dickerson, Christian Jones, Pierre Y-A, McHugh, Scanlan, Fuessel, Macan Wilson... Some were injured, some did not pan out at the FBS level (development issue or talent issue? nature vs. nurture) but this happens at all the college football programs. What jumped out at me as I dug deeper is that our recruiting had a dry spell at WR for about 3 consecutive classes from 2012-2014. In fact, here are our WR recruits since 2010, with the ones who have contributed at the WR position significantly in bold:

• 2010 - Jimmy Hall, Tony Jones, Rashad Lawrence. Note: Hall was moved to D.
• 2011 - Cam Dickerson, Christian Jones, Pierre Youngblood-Ary
• 2012 - Stephen Buckley (ATH), Mike McHugh, Andrew Scanlan
• 2013 - Tommy Fuessel (ATH), Macan Wilson
• 2014 - Nate Hall, Solomon Vault (ATH). Note: Hall moved to D, Vault has played mostly as RB
• 2015 - Charles Fessler, Cameron Green, Flynn Nagel, Jelani Roberts. Nagel showed promise before injury.
• 2016 verbals - Ramaud Chiakhiao-Bowman, Riley Lees, Ben Skowronek

Poor recruiting? Bad luck? Poor development? In fact our best receiver this past season was walk-on Austin Carr (and transfer Kyle Prater the year before that). Not necessarily a bad thing with the walk-on -- see Markshausen -- but if it's a tallest midget situation then, yeah, not good.

It looks like we have made a concerted effort to beef up our WR corps in the last two recruiting classes, with a mix of big physical receivers (Fessler, Green, Skowronek, RCB) and smaller speedy guys (Nagel, Roberts, Lees). This group is a big upgrade in talent IMO over what we had the past 3-4 years. The question remains: is Springer the right coach to develop this group of receivers?

I'm with you that the question stands... but the best person to answer that question is Fitz. That's why, I stand with Fitz no matter what the decision is.

Both TJones and Lawrence had injuries... and Lawerence still had a nice senior year. Dickerson, CJones, Buckley and Fuessell all had health issues. Scanlan has had health issues too. I'm not going to say negative things on XPYA, McHugh, or Scanlan, but I don't think it's hard to find explanations on why they didn't produce. I don't know a thing about Macan Wilson.

2011: 2 injured WRs, 1 transfer that had 6 catches in 20 games at previous school, 1 didn't develop (not Springers fault and Springer didn't recruit him)
2012: 1 injured WR, 2 didn't develop (not Springers fault)
2013: 1 health issue, 1 didn't develop (don't know who's fault)
2014: NO WRs

Those are the guys Springer is working with. You can have the best WR coach in the world and he's not going to get blood from a turnip. Is that Springer? I have no idea. Neither does anyone on the board. So let's relax, let Fitz make a decision, and when he does assume it has nothing to do with loyalty or Fitz being forced to make a move by Phillips or some other stupid crap.

 

[stpaulcat]

I'm with you that the question stands... but the best person to answer that question is Fitz. That's why, I stand with Fitz no matter what the decision is.

Both TJones and Lawrence had injuries... and Lawerence still had a nice senior year. Dickerson, CJones, Buckley and Fuessell all had health issues. Scanlan has had health issues too. I'm not going to say negative things on XPYA, McHugh, or Scanlan, but I don't think it's hard to find explanations on why they didn't produce. I don't know a thing about Macan Wilson.

2011: 2 injured WRs, 1 transfer that had 6 catches in 20 games at previous school, 1 didn't develop (not Springers fault and Springer didn't recruit him)
2012: 1 injured WR, 2 didn't develop (not Springers fault)
2013: 1 health issue, 1 didn't develop (don't know who's fault)
2014: NO WRs

Those are the guys Springer is working with. You can have the best WR coach in the world and he's not going to get blood from a turnip. Is that Springer? I have no idea. Neither does anyone on the board. So let's relax, let Fitz make a decision, and when he does assume it has nothing to do with loyalty or Fitz being forced to make a move by Phillips or some other stupid crap.

"and when he does...."

The issue is not whether Fitz will make the right decision, as much as when. According to DaCat's post, this situation has been developing or going on 7 years now. Isn't that enough time to figure out there is a problem and solve it? I can easily see this dragging out another two years.

When a problem goes on this long, you have to think coaching is at least involved.

Wouldn't it be great to see another Rose Bowl within our lifetimes?

 

[hdhntr1]

I'm with you that the question stands... but the best person to answer that question is Fitz. That's why, I stand with Fitz no matter what the decision is.

Both TJones and Lawrence had injuries... and Lawerence still had a nice senior year. Dickerson, CJones, Buckley and Fuessell all had health issues. Scanlan has had health issues too. I'm not going to say negative things on XPYA, McHugh, or Scanlan, but I don't think it's hard to find explanations on why they didn't produce. I don't know a thing about Macan Wilson.

2011: 2 injured WRs, 1 transfer that had 6 catches in 20 games at previous school, 1 didn't develop (not Springers fault and Springer didn't recruit him)
2012: 1 injured WR, 2 didn't develop (not Springers fault)
2013: 1 health issue, 1 didn't develop (don't know who's fault)
2014: NO WRs

Those are the guys Springer is working with. You can have the best WR coach in the world and he's not going to get blood from a turnip. Is that Springer? I have no idea. Neither does anyone on the board. So let's relax, let Fitz make a decision, and when he does assume it has nothing to do with loyalty or Fitz being forced to make a move by Phillips or some other stupid crap.

I would say injuries or illnesses are not Springer's fault but not sure why you say that guys who did not develop are not Springer's fault. They are his to develop and if they do not, it is at least part on him.

 

[shakes3858]

I would say injuries or illnesses are not Springer's fault but not sure why you say that guys who did not develop are not Springer's fault. They are his to develop and if they do not, it is at least part on him.

Because it's pretty easy for me to see why those guys didn't develop and it's not the coaching.

 

[shakes3858]

"and when he does...."

The issue is not whether Fitz will make the right decision, as much as when. According to DaCat's post, this situation has been developing or going on 7 years now. Isn't that enough time to figure out there is a problem and solve it? I can easily see this dragging out another two years.

When a problem goes on this long, you have to think coaching is at least involved.

Wouldn't it be great to see another Rose Bowl within our lifetimes?

Where did you get 7 years? DaCat went back to 2010. Hell, Springer has only been here for 5 years. The problem may be recruiting, it may be style, it may be coaching, and it may just be bad luck. So there could be a problem that can be fixed. We can change the coach if that's the problem. I don't know (and NEITHER DOES ANYONE ON THIS BOARD). We could also play our best athletes at WR rather than DB or RB (see Matt Harris Godwin Igwebuike, Solomon Vault, Stephen Buckley). There could also be a problem (bad luck/injuries) that can't be fixed. We can also recruit more WRs per class hoping that 2 out of 4 turn out well rather than having 2 misses.... that might take care of the bad luck and injuries that occur.

And of course the problem could last 2 more years... We've taken in more WR last class and this class. It might take them 2 years to develop. Will they develop better with Springer, Springer's replace, or Edicks tennis ball machine? It's not the 3rd the option. I support whatever Fitz says about option 1 or 2.

 

[phatcat]

"and when he does...."

The issue is not whether Fitz will make the right decision, as much as when. According to DaCat's post, this situation has been developing or going on 7 years now. Isn't that enough time to figure out there is a problem and solve it? I can easily see this dragging out another two years.

When a problem goes on this long, you have to think coaching is at least involved.

Wouldn't it be great to see another Rose Bowl within our lifetimes?

I was still in school during the rainy Minnesota game (83?). Kind of bizarre - it was so dark they had these strange temporary flood (sic) lights shining on the field. I seem to remember we somehow got a safety and then their free kick did this strange puddle skip and Ricky Edwards took it to the house.

Things we can agree:

1) Our passing offense needs to improve
2) Several receivers are graduating,most of whom produced less than they had in the past
3) Remaining receivers are unknown, little known, unproductive, injured or changing positions
4) The QB will very likely remain Thor, for 3 more years, like it or not, because it is VERY unlikely that Fitz will change unless he's injured.

Therefore, it seems that, if no changes are made to coaching, scheme, personnel, etc., then we are solely and completely dependent on "improvement" from Thorson and 3 or 4 key receivers.

The only (unlikely) exception to this would be if we were to develop such a stout running game that the passing offense could be an afterthought. Even then, Thor would have to develop a better feel for the fakes, the option, the read option, etc. I don't think we have the horses for this, but 2012 caught me by surprise, so it is possible.

 

[DaCat]

Because it's pretty easy for me to see why those guys didn't develop and it's not the coaching.

I agree that some kids just don't pan out at the FBS level. It is a huge jump from high school. That's why recruiting is so important.

But so is player development because most of the kids we are able to recruit are not the 5-star freaks who can catch a ball against their ass while doing a flip. We've had technicians like Zeke Markshausen, we've had an occasional stud like D'Wayne Bates who just stepped in and was outstanding, we've successfully converted QBs like Bates, Peterman, Ebert, Andrew Brewer... but in recent years we haven't done squat except maybe Austin Carr.

Let's look at an example. Without knowing any behind-the-scenes story, but just what's on the surface, why hasn't Mike McHugh developed? Remember his ridiculous one-handed catch last year? hurdling a defender this year? The guy is athletic enough, has decent speed, good size (6-3 195) and good hands... and now he's not coming back for his fifth year? Is it a personal motivation issue? or did the program not want him back?

The track record is not very good for the past 3-4 years at this position. How does Fitz improve it?

 

[NJCat83588]

Because it's pretty easy for me to see why those guys didn't develop and it's not the coaching.

You can't just lay that turd in the punch bowl and not explain what you see.....

 

[stpaulcat]

Where did you get 7 years? DaCat went back to 2010. Hell, Springer has only been here for 5 years. The problem may be recruiting, it may be style, it may be coaching, and it may just be bad luck. So there could be a problem that can be fixed. We can change the coach if that's the problem. I don't know (and NEITHER DOES ANYONE ON THIS BOARD). We could also play our best athletes at WR rather than DB or RB (see Matt Harris Godwin Igwebuike, Solomon Vault, Stephen Buckley). There could also be a problem (bad luck/injuries) that can't be fixed. We can also recruit more WRs per class hoping that 2 out of 4 turn out well rather than having 2 misses.... that might take care of the bad luck and injuries that occur.

And of course the problem could last 2 more years... We've taken in more WR last class and this class. It might take them 2 years to develop. Will they develop better with Springer, Springer's replace, or Edicks tennis ball machine? It's not the 3rd the option. I support whatever Fitz says about option 1 or 2.

10,11,12,13,14,15,16. I said nearly 7 years. It's now 2016. And before we know it, it will be the 2016 season.

I agree that no one on this board knows for sure if coaching is the problem. It's just that it is looking as though it is a contributing problem.

 

[DaCat]

Even though Springer has been here only 5 years, he's had a chance to work with players he inherited.