And now we wait....and wait....

[shakes3858]

10,11,12,13,14,15,16. I said nearly 7 years. It's now 2016. And before we know it, it will be the 2016 season.

I agree that no one on this board knows for sure if coaching is the problem. It's just that it is looking as though it is a contributing problem.

Well, there's people that want to replace the coach with a tennis ball machine... and others screaming about Fitz's loyalty to terrible coaches when they no nothing about how loyal Fitz is and whether the coaches are terrible... So ok, coaching is just a contributing factor... convince those guys.

You can't just lay that turd in the punch bowl and not explain what you see.....

Ok... I will state 3 undeniable facts that you make your own inferences:
XPYA had 9 catches his senior year of high school
McHugh either wasn't invited back for year 5 (can't imagine) or didn't want to play another year.
Scanlan is listed at 6'2 215... and I hear he's a whole lot bigger than that.

I agree that some kids just don't pan out at the FBS level. It is a huge jump from high school. That's why recruiting is so important.

But so is player development because most of the kids we are able to recruit are not the 5-star freaks who can catch a ball against their ass while doing a flip. We've had technicians like Zeke Markshausen, we've had an occasional stud like D'Wayne Bates who just stepped in and was outstanding, we've successfully converted QBs like Bates, Peterman, Ebert, Andrew Brewer... but in recent years we haven't done squat except maybe Austin Carr.

Let's look at an example. Without knowing any behind-the-scenes story, but just what's on the surface, why hasn't Mike McHugh developed? Remember his ridiculous one-handed catch last year? hurdling a defender this year? The guy is athletic enough, has decent speed, good size (6-3 195) and good hands... and now he's not coming back for his fifth year? Is it a personal motivation issue? or did the program not want him back?

The track record is not very good for the past 3-4 years at this position. How does Fitz improve it?

Every WR can make 1 difficult catch in traffic or come up with 1 highlight catch and run. That doesn't make an offense. What makes an offense is getting open time and time again and catching the ball. Have we considered that Markshausen, Bates, Peterman, Ebert, and Brewer were just ridiculous athletes. HS coaches put their best athlete at QB. We were going to try that route with Fuessell and Darien Watkins, but they didn't work out for us on the field. We're trying it with Lees.

Yes, development matters, but you need to find a motivated kids with natural ability. I don't see a whole lot of players at WR that have both. Even Fitz has commented about the lack of maturity in the WR room.

 

[DaCat]

So how come a kid like McHugh with all the physical attributes can't get open? or PYA stuck at his h.s. level without noticeable improvement? Motivation could be a factor... but can a coach influence that?

 

[shakes3858]

10,11,12,13,14,15,16. I said nearly 7 years. It's now 2016. And before we know it, it will be the 2016 season.

I agree that no one on this board knows for sure if coaching is the problem. It's just that it is looking as though it is a contributing problem.

Our WR were really good in 2010. Rashad Lawrence Jeremy Ebert. That's 2 NFL players. I think Demetrius Fields was WR #5 on that team
2011 was pretty good too: Ebert, Lawrence, a young uninjured TJones.
So 12, 13, 14, 15...

 

[shakes3858]

So how come a kid like McHugh with all the physical attributes can't get open? or PYA stuck at his h.s. level without noticeable improvement? Motivation could be a factor... but can a coach influence that?

1. He's not as athletic as your making him out to be especially when you're comparing him to guys that will be playing corner in the NFL next year.
2. He didn't want to come back for year 5 (or wasn't invited which wouldn't make any sense what so ever).

 

[stpaulcat]

Our WR were really good in 2010. Rashad Lawrence Jeremy Ebert. That's 2 NFL players. I think Demetrius Fields was WR #5 on that team
2011 was pretty good too: Ebert, Lawrence, a young uninjured TJones.
So 12, 13, 14, 15...

I think DaCat was talking about recruiting downturn at WR beginning in 2010. Like many of the rest of us, coaches are capable of thinking ahead. At some point coach could have said, "I think we're going to have a problem at WR, let's get on top of it now."

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Somehow, we were able to make walk-ons, former QBs, and other lightly recruited players with only MAC Offers (including IU and Illinois) into All-Big 10 or at least very dependable receivers. The talent (in terms of offers and star ratings) has been stronger in the last couple years, with a 5 star and a couple 4 stars on the roster, something we never had back in the day.

Are you claiming that Kyle Prater was correctly assessed as a 5-star recruit? I think that was a major miscue in the evaluation department of the scouting services. I guess you're saying it doesn't matter how good the player was; it only matters what Scout and Rivals say in terms of stars.

 

[NJCat83588]

Are you claiming that Kyle Prater was correctly assessed as a 5-star recruit? I think that was a major miscue in the evaluation department of the scouting services. I guess you're saying it doesn't matter how good the player was; it only matters what Scout and Rivals say in terms of stars.

Kyle was injured pretty much his entire college career, so it is difficult to conclude his high school ranking was wrong.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Are you claiming that Kyle Prater was correctly assessed as a 5-star recruit? I think that was a major miscue in the evaluation department of the scouting services. I guess you're saying it doesn't matter how good the player was; it only matters what Scout and Rivals say in terms of stars.

Well, he wasn't that bad. I mean he was our best WR last year.

The point is he and many of our other WR recruits had more physical gifts and were much more highly regarded (not just by Scout/Rivals but by other programs) than many of our WR's during the Walker era, yet the guys during that era were far more productive. I don't think it was just the talent.

Plus, I suspect Walker and Johns used an automatic tennis ball machine. It may be around somewhere collecting dust. Let's find it, take off the tarp, and fire it up! We still won't have WR's that can run routes, get separation, or block until we get a new coach, but at least they won't drop as many balls.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Well, he wasn't that bad. I mean he was our best WR last year.

The point is he and many of our other WR recruits had more physical gifts and were much more highly regarded (not just by Scout/Rivals but by other programs) than many of our WR's during the Walker era, yet the guys during that era were far more productive. I don't think it was just the talent.

Plus, I suspect Walker and Johns used an automatic tennis ball machine. It may be around somewhere collecting dust. Let's find it, take off the tarp, and fire it up! We still won't have WR's that can run routes, get separation, or block until we get a new coach, but at least they won't drop as many balls.

Prater was taller/longer than our past WRs. He wasn't as athletically talented as many WRs we have had in the past.

 

[stpaulcat]

Our WR were really good in 2010. Rashad Lawrence Jeremy Ebert. That's 2 NFL players. I think Demetrius Fields was WR #5 on that team
2011 was pretty good too: Ebert, Lawrence, a young uninjured TJones.
So 12, 13, 14, 15...

Okay, I'll concede 10 and 11, so it's 12,13,14,15 and we don't know about 16 yet, so 4 years going on 5 with a decline in the WR corps. You can call me Joe, you can call me Mo, or you can call me Otto, but please don't call me Felis. Five years is a long time to lay this on injuries and the players.

 

[mikewebb68]

Okay, I'll concede 10 and 11, so it's 12,13,14,15 and we don't know about 16 yet, so 4 years going on 5 with a decline in the WR corps. You can call me Joe, you can call me Mo, or you can call me Otto, but please don't call me Felis. Five years is a long time to lay this on injuries and the players.

Might want to concede 2012 as well. Don't remember anyone complaining about Fields, the Joneses, Lawrence and the occassional Colter...

 

[mikewebb68]

Well, he wasn't that bad. I mean he was our best WR last year.

The point is he and many of our other WR recruits had more physical gifts and were much more highly regarded (not just by Scout/Rivals but by other programs) than many of our WR's during the Walker era, yet the guys during that era were far more productive. I don't think it was just the talent.

Plus, I suspect Walker and Johns used an automatic tennis ball machine. It may be around somewhere collecting dust. Let's find it, take off the tarp, and fire it up! We still won't have WR's that can run routes, get separation, or block until we get a new coach, but at least they won't drop as many balls.

The tennis ball comment is really getting old. It's not funny.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

Kyle was injured pretty much his entire college career, so it is difficult to conclude his high school ranking was wrong.

I really like Kyle and enjoyed talking with him when he was here, but he was not a five-star recruit, and it's misleadingto suggest that he had NFL caliber speed before some injury robbed him of it; he never had that speed and the scouts and schools were just enamored with his size and hands (which aside from a few drops were pretty good, in my opinion). He was saddled with unfair expectations that were no fault of his own.

 

[60657Cat]

So how come a kid like McHugh with all the physical attributes can't get open? or PYA stuck at his h.s. level without noticeable improvement? Motivation could be a factor... but can a coach influence that?

With McHugh, having two broken feet at the same time in the spring probably didn't help his quickness. At that point, as a player, you have to think about the 40 years, not just the next year.

Some guys are just recruiting misses. Every school has them.

 

[YesterdaysCat]

So how come a kid like McHugh with all the physical attributes can't get open? or PYA stuck at his h.s. level without noticeable improvement? Motivation could be a factor... but can a coach influence that?

PYA was always a project. He was somebody that the coaches projected as a potential starter if everything broke the right way. PYA had the physical tools coming into NU, but he didn't have the HS experience (I think his HS never really threw the ball, if I recall) and he just never put it together. It was a calculated reach by NU recruiting and obviously they would probably take the same chance on a guy with his size and measurables if it happened all over again, but it didn't work out in this instance.

McHugh was perhaps a reach, too. He didn't have many Power 5 offers, maybe two others? But again, his size and speed projected as a potential Big Ten starter.

I feel like these guys had physical gifts but they were not quite the guys that we should have gone after. We went after way-under-the-radar guys and pinned too many hopes on them. Even Fuessel held just an NIU offer. Maybe he would have been a star or maybe not. Jehu Chesson was "only" a top 100 receiver in the country. Imagine that. There are plenty of receivers out there who still qualify academically. Maybe they aren't as "toolsy" in the 6-3, 210 lb. sense, but how about actual production? Don't kill me, but maybe I would have signed Gehrig Dieter.

 

[DaCat]

With McHugh, having two broken feet at the same time in the spring probably didn't help his quickness. At that point, as a player, you have to think about the 40 years, not just the next year.

Some guys are just recruiting misses. Every school has them.

I didn't realize McHugh had those injuries. I understand that PYA was a reach and didn't work out. But if part of our strategy is to recruit under-the-radar guys because we can't get the Laqon Treadwell's and Jehu Chesson's of the world, then we'd better make sure we have a damn good teacher and technician as the position coach to develop those diamonds in the rough. I don't know if we have that type of person. By all accounts, Springer is a really good recruiter, but the body of work suggests he may not be the right position coach.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

PYA was always a project. He was somebody that the coaches projected as a potential starter if everything broke the right way. PYA had the physical tools coming into NU, but he didn't have the HS experience (I think his HS never really threw the ball, if I recall) and he just never put it together. It was a calculated reach by NU recruiting and obviously they would probably take the same chance on a guy with his size and measurables if it happened all over again, but it didn't work out in this instance.

McHugh was perhaps a reach, too. He didn't have many Power 5 offers, maybe two others? But again, his size and speed projected as a potential Big Ten starter.

I feel like these guys had physical gifts but they were not quite the guys that we should have gone after. We went after way-under-the-radar guys and pinned too many hopes on them. Even Fuessel held just an NIU offer. Maybe he would have been a star or maybe not. Jehu Chesson was "only" a top 100 receiver in the country. Imagine that. There are plenty of receivers out there who still qualify academically. Maybe they aren't as "toolsy" in the 6-3, 210 lb. sense, but how about actual production? Don't kill me, but maybe I would have signed Gehrig Dieter.

Knew it wouldn't be long before someone mentioned Gehrig Dieter. He had a decent career at Bowling Green and put up some nice numbers this year, but to suggest he would have had a transformative effect on our offense is ridiculous.

 

[stpaulcat]

Might want to concede 2012 as well. Don't remember anyone complaining about Fields, the Joneses, Lawrence and the occassional Colter...

2012 was the beginning of the WR recruiting decline, or maybe a better way to put it is the beginning of the decline in recruited players that didn't for one reason or another work out at WR.

 

[hdhntr1]

And he did

Kyle was injured pretty much his entire college career, so it is difficult to conclude his high school ranking was wrong.

And he did end up as our top receiver last year. That said, he was not really that fast so hard to say how much of his lack of performance was overrating, injures or misuse of his attributes for most of his career

 

[stpaulcat]

The tennis ball comment is really getting old. It's not funny.

Well, to give ECat credit, it was funny the first time.

 

[GlideCat]

Okay, I'll concede 10 and 11, so it's 12,13,14,15 and we don't know about 16 yet, so 4 years going on 5...

What is it about strings of numbers around here?

 

[stpaulcat]

What is it about strings of numbers around here?

In this case it's a parody, but there is some truth to the pattern.

 

[phatcat]

2012 was the beginning of the WR recruiting decline, or maybe a better way to put it is the beginning of the decline in recruited players that didn't for one reason or another work out at WR.

I did a cursory look a while ago and Prater was the only WR during that period that had more production his senior year than prior. Lots and lots of dropoffs.

Why didn't Vitale catch 60 this year? Why did Cam Dickerson disappear? Why did Tony Jones decline? Why did CJ start dropping the ball?

I'd like to know what of the several smokescreen causes are not on the coaches. Drops? Poor coaching or poor development of the 2nd string guy so you can bench the guy dropping it. Poor recruiting? Coaching. Poor routes? coaching. Lack of ability to separate? coaching and or recruiting (also coach responsibility). Lack of development of every single WR on the roster? Coaching. Inability for the QB with 2 full seasons in the program to throw accurately on a consistent basis, and/or the fifth or third year guys' failure to beat him out? Coaching.

I'm not saying it cannot or will not change. Heck, nearly everyone was ready to ride coach Brown out of town on a rail a few years back (me too), and now, suddenly, we are dancing alongside him. since we had not had a strong pass defense since about 1996, it was more challenging to really point at the problem. But - we were a strong passing team for a LOT of years, like 9 of the years between 2000 and 2011. Sometimes we couldn't run it a lick, but we could pass.

Don't get me wrong, I love a strong defense. I have far more faith in a strong defense to hold a lead than a strong offense to keep regaining a lead. That said, I can just feel the "we won ten games" arrogance from Fitz, 'put that in your pipe and smoke it'. I don't think he changes anything. We are solely reliant on Thor improving, the Frosh WR's being better than the grads, and an unnamed person not getting injured.

At least I get a free pizza if he doesn't change anything.

 

[60657Cat]

I'

I did a cursory look a while ago and Prater was the only WR during that period that had more production his senior year than prior. Lots and lots of dropoffs.

Why didn't Vitale catch 60 this year? Why did Cam Dickerson disappear? Why did Tony Jones decline? Why did CJ start dropping the ball?

I'd like to know what of the several smokescreen causes are not on the coaches. Drops? Poor coaching or poor development of the 2nd string guy so you can bench the guy dropping it. Poor recruiting? Coaching. Poor routes? coaching. Lack of ability to separate? coaching and or recruiting (also coach responsibility). Lack of development of every single WR on the roster? Coaching. Inability for the QB with 2 full seasons in the program to throw accurately on a consistent basis, and/or the fifth or third year guys' failure to beat him out? Coaching.

I'm not saying it cannot or will not change. Heck, nearly everyone was ready to ride coach Brown out of town on a rail a few years back (me too), and now, suddenly, we are dancing alongside him. since we had not had a strong pass defense since about 1996, it was more challenging to really point at the problem. But - we were a strong passing team for a LOT of years, like 9 of the years between 2000 and 2011. Sometimes we couldn't run it a lick, but we could pass.

Don't get me wrong, I love a strong defense. I have far more faith in a strong defense to hold a lead than a strong offense to keep regaining a lead. That said, I can just feel the "we won ten games" arrogance from Fitz, 'put that in your pipe and smoke it'. I don't think he changes anything. We are solely reliant on Thor improving, the Frosh WR's being better than the grads, and an unnamed person not getting injured.

At least I get a free pizza if he doesn't change anything.

I've answered this before in a different thread: Sometimes, at the end of the day, you can have the best coaches, the best facilities, the best motivators, the best uniforms, the best equipment, the absolute best of everything and it makes no difference if the guy doesn't want to do it enough or if he can't mentally get over an injury. We can wrack our brains every day between now and kickoff against WMU if we want, but it's only going to lead to further frustration. We forget that they are kids, they are human and if there's one thing we know about human behavior it's that it's not necessarily controllable. You can blame the coaching and the scheme for many things, but when the ball is on its way to a receiver on a dig route, it's thrown on time with accuracy and the receiver has separation, there's no one to blame for a drop or praise for a reception than the guy catching the ball. Sometimes, it's just that simple.

 

[stpaulcat]

I did a cursory look a while ago and Prater was the only WR during that period that had more production his senior year than prior. Lots and lots of dropoffs.

Why didn't Vitale catch 60 this year? Why did Cam Dickerson disappear? Why did Tony Jones decline? Why did CJ start dropping the ball?

I'd like to know what of the several smokescreen causes are not on the coaches. Drops? Poor coaching or poor development of the 2nd string guy so you can bench the guy dropping it. Poor recruiting? Coaching. Poor routes? coaching. Lack of ability to separate? coaching and or recruiting (also coach responsibility). Lack of development of every single WR on the roster? Coaching. Inability for the QB with 2 full seasons in the program to throw accurately on a consistent basis, and/or the fifth or third year guys' failure to beat him out? Coaching.

I'm not saying it cannot or will not change. Heck, nearly everyone was ready to ride coach Brown out of town on a rail a few years back (me too), and now, suddenly, we are dancing alongside him. since we had not had a strong pass defense since about 1996, it was more challenging to really point at the problem. But - we were a strong passing team for a LOT of years, like 9 of the years between 2000 and 2011. Sometimes we couldn't run it a lick, but we could pass.

Don't get me wrong, I love a strong defense. I have far more faith in a strong defense to hold a lead than a strong offense to keep regaining a lead. That said, I can just feel the "we won ten games" arrogance from Fitz, 'put that in your pipe and smoke it'. I don't think he changes anything. We are solely reliant on Thor improving, the Frosh WR's being better than the grads, and an unnamed person not getting injured.

At least I get a free pizza if he doesn't change anything.

It would be really interesting to know, in as much as the general perception even among ourselves seems to be that we board posters are a bunch of idiots with respect to what is really going on within the NU Football Program, how similar or not the conversations among the coaches and Dr. Phillips are to the ones we are having here on the board right now.

 

[stpaulcat]

I'


I've answered this before in a different thread: Sometimes, at the end of the day, you can have the best coaches, the best facilities, the best motivators, the best uniforms, the best equipment, the absolute best of everything and it makes no difference if the guy doesn't want to do it enough or if he can't mentally get over an injury. We can wrack our brains every day between now and kickoff against WMU if we want, but it's only going to lead to further frustration. We forget that they are kids, they are human and if there's one thing we know about human behavior it's that it's not necessarily controllable. You can blame the coaching and the scheme for many things, but when the ball is on its way to a receiver on a dig route, it's thrown on time with accuracy and the receiver has separation, there's no one to blame for a drop or praise for a reception than the guy catching the ball. Sometimes, it's just that simple.

Sometimes.

 

[DaCat]

I'


I've answered this before in a different thread: Sometimes, at the end of the day, you can have the best coaches, the best facilities, the best motivators, the best uniforms, the best equipment, the absolute best of everything and it makes no difference if the guy doesn't want to do it enough or if he can't mentally get over an injury. We can wrack our brains every day between now and kickoff against WMU if we want, but it's only going to lead to further frustration. We forget that they are kids, they are human and if there's one thing we know about human behavior it's that it's not necessarily controllable. You can blame the coaching and the scheme for many things, but when the ball is on its way to a receiver on a dig route, it's thrown on time with accuracy and the receiver has separation, there's no one to blame for a drop or praise for a reception than the guy catching the ball. Sometimes, it's just that simple.

There is a lot of truth to what you say. That is why Fitz and his staff emphasize recruiting "high character" guys. I think for the most part he has been successful doing this. But looking at the lack of production from this group of receivers, isn't it a bit hard to believe that you would have a group of players over multiple years who may not be trying as hard? especially if guys like Thor are saying that Christian Jones, for instance, was someone who was inspiring because of the hard work and effort he puts in every day.

 

[GlideCat]

the general perception even among ourselves seems to be that we board posters are a bunch of idiots with respect to what is really going on within the NU Football Program...

In my case, it is not a perception but a reality. I am awash in a sea of ignorance.

 

[stpaulcat]

In my case, it is not a perception but a reality. I am awash in a sea of ignorance.

Interesting metaphor for someone who lives on a South Pacific island.

 

[willycat]

maybe it's time for Fitz and staff to recruit guys who are characters but separate and catch the dam ball. All this stuff about only recruiting guys with good character or who fit the NU system is getting just as old the replacing Springer with the tennis ball machine. Those Alabama and Clemson kids sure were good characters, especially when they were catching the ball.

 

[IGNORE2]

No, your post is a distortion. His playbook is not designed for receivers who can't break M2M coverage. What offense is?

Not sure what one is, but I can think of one that should be. After several years, I would hope if they cannot recruit or develop WRs, they would learn how to game plan around that simple fact.

 

[IGNORE2]

I'll explain:

1) More experienced QB that may actually get to work out with more than two of his starting WRs over the summer (Cam and C. Jones were hurt). CT only began to develop a rhythm with ONE receiver this year (Nagel) and as soon as he did Nagel was injured Ummm - he sure threw at CJones a lot...
2) Extensive turnover at our weakest position group (WR). When a group is good, turnover is bad, and when a group is good, turnover is typically good. Right, with those guys that couldn't break the starting lineup of a bunch of non-peformers...
3) The move of Vault to WR (assuming it is a permanent move) Sure, it was noticeably better in the bowl....

 

[IGNORE2]

It wasn't fun? Man, that really stinks. Again, I'm really sorry. Let's see if there's anyone we can call to make sure the guys playing do right by you next time. If only the kids giving their entire lives to this cared as much as you to "show up" (particularly on the three or four Saturdays they knew you were going to, you know, show up.)

Only because the sarcasm deserves it... Yes, let those kids on O that cannot play football in a high revenue, D-1, Power 5 football conference go play somewhere else where trophies are given to every participant for playing their little hearts out. Then replace them with performers worthy of the revenue draw. Or, maybe NU should drop down to D-2 or some other non-major revenue division - NU can charge HS comparable ticket prices, forego those dastardly B1G revenue splits and everybody can focus on those hard working kids that sacrifice part of their study time to play football for fun??? Would that work for you??? Hmmmmm....

 

[IGNORE2]

Do you ever watch how much better the personnel at WR is at 99% of BCS schools? Plenty of problems in the WR room, but the solutions have to start with getting better players.

So we get out recruiting by 99% of the BCS? Sounds like a coaching issue to me. An NU schollie below 99% of the BCS - a damn shame.

 

[IGNORE2]

I'


I've answered this before in a different thread: Sometimes, at the end of the day, you can have the best coaches, the best facilities, the best motivators, the best uniforms, the best equipment, the absolute best of everything and it makes no difference if the guy doesn't want to do it enough or if he can't mentally get over an injury. We can wrack our brains every day between now and kickoff against WMU if we want, but it's only going to lead to further frustration. We forget that they are kids, they are human and if there's one thing we know about human behavior it's that it's not necessarily controllable. You can blame the coaching and the scheme for many things, but when the ball is on its way to a receiver on a dig route, it's thrown on time with accuracy and the receiver has separation, there's no one to blame for a drop or praise for a reception than the guy catching the ball. Sometimes, it's just that simple.

That explains once, twice? All of them - I don't think so.

 

[hoosboot]

Only because the sarcasm deserves it... Yes, let those kids on O that cannot play football in a high revenue, D-1, Power 5 football conference go play somewhere else where trophies are given to every participant for playing their little hearts out. Then replace them with performers worthy of the revenue draw. Or, maybe NU should drop down to D-2 or some other non-major revenue division - NU can charge HS comparable ticket prices, forego those dastardly B1G revenue splits and everybody can focus on those hard working kids that sacrifice part of their study time to play football for fun??? Would that work for you??? Hmmmmm....

Nah...10-3 and Top 25 nationally playing in a high revenue, D-1, Power 5 football conference is good enough that we should stay FBS. But, maybe with all that revenue we can get some tissues for you and SPC to dry your tears over this terrible season. I really sympathize with how tough it's been for you and SPC this season.

 

[stpaulcat]

Nah...10-3 and Top 25 nationally playing in a high revenue, D-1, Power 5 football conference is good enough that we should stay FBS. But, maybe with all that revenue we can get some tissues for you and SPC to dry your tears over this terrible season. I really sympathize with how tough it's been for you and SPC this season.

Jesus H. Christ. I have nowhere said this was a terrible season. We have great running back, some very good other offensive players, but all in all a terrible offense. With little sign that it will improve much next year.

 

[Catreporter]

Jesus H. Christ. I have nowhere said this was a terrible season. We have great running back, some very good other offensive players, but all in all a terrible offense. With little sign that it will improve much next year.

I think a 10-3 record with a redshirt Frosh qb who wasn't the starter until the fall really gives the coaching staff another chance to get it right on offense next year. I said in another thread that Steve Schnur had 4 TDs and 10 int in his Soph season and the team struggled on offense. We all know what happened the next two years. Let's give Thorson and his new receiving crops and offseason to work on things and see where we are next fall. If it doesn't get better, then perhaps change is warranted.

 

[corbi296]

I'


I've answered this before in a different thread: Sometimes, at the end of the day, you can have the best coaches, the best facilities, the best motivators, the best uniforms, the best equipment, the absolute best of everything and it makes no difference if the guy doesn't want to do it enough or if he can't mentally get over an injury. We can wrack our brains every day between now and kickoff against WMU if we want, but it's only going to lead to further frustration. We forget that they are kids, they are human and if there's one thing we know about human behavior it's that it's not necessarily controllable. You can blame the coaching and the scheme for many things, but when the ball is on its way to a receiver on a dig route, it's thrown on time with accuracy and the receiver has separation, there's no one to blame for a drop or praise for a reception than the guy catching the ball. Sometimes, it's just that simple.

So you're saying that's what has happened to multiple receivers over the course of multiple years? And coincidentally this is the complete reversal of the type of play we saw from many of our receivers over the course of many years prior to this string of poor play. Come on. This isn't coincidence or the players. Look at the one main variable that has changed from before and after and you'll find the cause of the problem. It's very obvious in my mind.

 

[EvanstonCat]

Where did you get 7 years? DaCat went back to 2010. Hell, Springer has only been here for 5 years. The problem may be recruiting, it may be style, it may be coaching, and it may just be bad luck. So there could be a problem that can be fixed. We can change the coach if that's the problem. I don't know (and NEITHER DOES ANYONE ON THIS BOARD). We could also play our best athletes at WR rather than DB or RB (see Matt Harris Godwin Igwebuike, Solomon Vault, Stephen Buckley). There could also be a problem (bad luck/injuries) that can't be fixed. We can also recruit more WRs per class hoping that 2 out of 4 turn out well rather than having 2 misses.... that might take care of the bad luck and injuries that occur.

And of course the problem could last 2 more years... We've taken in more WR last class and this class. It might take them 2 years to develop. Will they develop better with Springer, Springer's replace, or Edicks tennis ball machine? It's not the 3rd the option. I support whatever Fitz says about option 1 or 2.

I am slow. Just caught the Edick comment. So, do I call you Shits now or something?