Can we get a little realistic?

[Sec.112]

I think there's a very real open question about whether NU admissions precludes a stable, winning program ...

... I think there are dozens and dozens of programs that would take Collins today. And I suspect that without the restrictions he'd do pretty well.

OK, do we have most of the grousing out of our system?

In this flood of poor-me over analysis, some of you really need to get your head on straight and find a more realistic foundation for your expectations. Medill's post is the start.

This is a BITCH of a job for so many reasons including a laughably uneducated and unsupportive fan base as we've seen since yesterday.

Things are far from perfect. I'm not crazy about where this thing is either. Any number of questions should be asked - development, recruiting philosophy, strategic flexibility. But they are still questions, aren't they? We have many positive examples and many bad examples.

However yesterday's news turned into final mandates for the program and firm opinions on '19-'20 recruiting ... in July ... even from people outside the usual pitchforks. Do you really think this is Kentucky?

Can I remind the more reasonable among you that Beran didn't commit until October last year? Kopp committed in September the year before.

Welcome to Northwestern. This is an ongoing battle to find that perfect balance between truly strong academics and strong athletics. Has something suddenly changed? NU is constantly fighting an uphill battle. And if I suggest NU loosen it grade restrictions, the egghead crowd will whine about how it lowers the value of their hard work. (Yes, that has been a regular past argument.)

So this is what we signed up for. If you want to kill the program EVERY time there's a hiccup, go root for Duke. You'll have fewer complaints.

Excuse me for repeating this, but one of the few things of value NU offers a coach is patience. If you dump a coach three years after a historic run and changing the trajectory of a program with fundraising and facilities, I don't want to see what's behind door number two. Here's the full list of off-season moves. Who would you have taken instead of Collins? Oats, Cronin, Buzz ...

How about the year before? There's two or three options there also.

Now who's realistic? Oats and ...?

For an example, look at who Cal ended up with - Mark Fox. He had two tourney bids in nine years at Georgia. He finished higher than sixth place in three of those years. I'm sure that's going to translate really well to Cal and some academic restrictions.

Vandy dumped Bryce Drew and ended up with a great name, Jerry Stackhouse - someone who has never recruited a day in his life.

I'm the last person to even approach being the rah-rah guy. But the supposed hardcore fans need to do better than this. The NU program is nowhere in the ballpark of being respected enough to make outside-the-box decisions. This needs to be played out ... and maybe even with a little support.

 

[JRZ80]

OK, do we have most of the grousing out of our system?

In this flood of poor-me over analysis, some of you really need to get your head on straight and find a more realistic foundation for your expectations. Medill's post is the start.

This is a BITCH of a job for so many reasons including a laughably uneducated and unsupportive fan base as we've seen since yesterday.

Things are far from perfect. I'm not crazy about where this thing is either. Any number of questions should be asked - development, recruiting philosophy, strategic flexibility. But they are still questions, aren't they? We have many positive examples and many bad examples.

However yesterday's news turned into final mandates for the program and firm opinions on '19-'20 recruiting ... in July ... even from people outside the usual pitchforks. Do you really think this is Kentucky?

Can I remind the more reasonable among you that Beran didn't commit until October last year? Kopp committed in September the year before.

Welcome to Northwestern. This is an ongoing battle to find that perfect balance between truly strong academics and strong athletics. Has something suddenly changed? NU is constantly fighting an uphill battle. And if I suggest NU loosen it grade restrictions, the egghead crowd will whine about how it lowers the value of their hard work. (Yes, that has been a regular past argument.)

So this is what we signed up for. If you want to kill the program EVERY time there's a hiccup, go root for Duke. You'll have fewer complaints.

Excuse me for repeating this, but one of the few things of value NU offers a coach is patience. If you dump a coach three years after a historic run and changing the trajectory of a program with fundraising and facilities, I don't want to see what's behind door number two. Here's the full list of off-season moves. Who would you have taken instead of Collins? Oats, Cronin, Buzz ...

How about the year before? There's two or three options there also.

Now who's realistic? Oats and ...?

For an example, look at who Cal ended up with - Mark Fox. He had two tourney bids in nine years at Georgia. He finished higher than sixth place in three of those years. I'm sure that's going to translate really well to Cal and some academic restrictions.

Vandy dumped Bryce Drew and ended up with a great name, Jerry Stackhouse - someone who has never recruited a day in his life.

I'm the last person to even approach being the rah-rah guy. But the supposed hardcore fans need to do better than this. The NU program is nowhere in the ballpark of being respected enough to make outside-the-box decisions. This needs to be played out ... and maybe even with a little support.

Totally agree.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

OK, do we have most of the grousing out of our system?

In this flood of poor-me over analysis, some of you really need to get your head on straight and find a more realistic foundation for your expectations. Medill's post is the start.

This is a BITCH of a job for so many reasons including a laughably uneducated and unsupportive fan base as we've seen since yesterday.

Things are far from perfect. I'm not crazy about where this thing is either. Any number of questions should be asked - development, recruiting philosophy, strategic flexibility. But they are still questions, aren't they? We have many positive examples and many bad examples.

However yesterday's news turned into final mandates for the program and firm opinions on '19-'20 recruiting ... in July ... even from people outside the usual pitchforks. Do you really think this is Kentucky?

Can I remind the more reasonable among you that Beran didn't commit until October last year? Kopp committed in September the year before.

Welcome to Northwestern. This is an ongoing battle to find that perfect balance between truly strong academics and strong athletics. Has something suddenly changed? NU is constantly fighting an uphill battle. And if I suggest NU loosen it grade restrictions, the egghead crowd will whine about how it lowers the value of their hard work. (Yes, that has been a regular past argument.)

So this is what we signed up for. If you want to kill the program EVERY time there's a hiccup, go root for Duke. You'll have fewer complaints.

Excuse me for repeating this, but one of the few things of value NU offers a coach is patience. If you dump a coach three years after a historic run and changing the trajectory of a program with fundraising and facilities, I don't want to see what's behind door number two. Here's the full list of off-season moves. Who would you have taken instead of Collins? Oats, Cronin, Buzz ...

How about the year before? There's two or three options there also.

Now who's realistic? Oats and ...?

For an example, look at who Cal ended up with - Mark Fox. He had two tourney bids in nine years at Georgia. He finished higher than sixth place in three of those years. I'm sure that's going to translate really well to Cal and some academic restrictions.

Vandy dumped Bryce Drew and ended up with a great name, Jerry Stackhouse - someone who has never recruited a day in his life.

I'm the last person to even approach being the rah-rah guy. But the supposed hardcore fans need to do better than this. The NU program is nowhere in the ballpark of being respected enough to make outside-the-box decisions. This needs to be played out ... and maybe even with a little support.

Despite the musings of some on here, CCC is not getting dumped this year or next year.

 

[IGNORE]

Despite the musings of some on here, CCC is not getting dumped this year or next year.

The irony would be if he quit.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

The irony would be if he quit.

IMO, far more likely than him getting dumped.

 

[phatcat]

We are to basketball what Xavier is to football

 

[IdahoAlum]

OK, do we have most of the grousing out of our system?

In this flood of poor-me over analysis, some of you really need to get your head on straight and find a more realistic foundation for your expectations. Medill's post is the start.

This is a BITCH of a job for so many reasons including a laughably uneducated and unsupportive fan base as we've seen since yesterday.

Things are far from perfect. I'm not crazy about where this thing is either. Any number of questions should be asked - development, recruiting philosophy, strategic flexibility. But they are still questions, aren't they? We have many positive examples and many bad examples.

However yesterday's news turned into final mandates for the program and firm opinions on '19-'20 recruiting ... in July ... even from people outside the usual pitchforks. Do you really think this is Kentucky?

Can I remind the more reasonable among you that Beran didn't commit until October last year? Kopp committed in September the year before.

Welcome to Northwestern. This is an ongoing battle to find that perfect balance between truly strong academics and strong athletics. Has something suddenly changed? NU is constantly fighting an uphill battle. And if I suggest NU loosen it grade restrictions, the egghead crowd will whine about how it lowers the value of their hard work. (Yes, that has been a regular past argument.)

So this is what we signed up for. If you want to kill the program EVERY time there's a hiccup, go root for Duke. You'll have fewer complaints.

Excuse me for repeating this, but one of the few things of value NU offers a coach is patience. If you dump a coach three years after a historic run and changing the trajectory of a program with fundraising and facilities, I don't want to see what's behind door number two. Here's the full list of off-season moves. Who would you have taken instead of Collins? Oats, Cronin, Buzz ...

How about the year before? There's two or three options there also.

Now who's realistic? Oats and ...?

For an example, look at who Cal ended up with - Mark Fox. He had two tourney bids in nine years at Georgia. He finished higher than sixth place in three of those years. I'm sure that's going to translate really well to Cal and some academic restrictions.

Vandy dumped Bryce Drew and ended up with a great name, Jerry Stackhouse - someone who has never recruited a day in his life.

I'm the last person to even approach being the rah-rah guy. But the supposed hardcore fans need to do better than this. The NU program is nowhere in the ballpark of being respected enough to make outside-the-box decisions. This needs to be played out ... and maybe even with a little support.

I think you're over-reacting to the reacting. Most of the stuff I've read on the message board was sympathetic to the plight of Collins and the NU staff. I think everybody recognizes this is a bitch of a job. It was a much BIGGER bitch before we had a remodeled arena, a new practice facility in the pipeline and an NCAA tournament appearance in the books. I don't recall anyone in any of these threads actively calling for Collins to be fired. I'm not hugely sold on him because I think a good coach could have won a few more of those close games last year, and because, other than the NCAA tournament appearance, he hasn't gone to the post-season in his NU career -- despite supposedly significantly upgrading the recruiting classes. But I have no desire to see him fired, and you're right, I can't think of a single, obvious choice to replace him. I'm perfectly fine with Collins continuing to fight the good fight -- although I wouldn't be a bit surprised or critical if he said, "You know what, this is not what I expected. I'm going to try something else."

I'd characterize yesterday's reaction as more of a "Come to Jesus" realization that all the hope we invested in Collins and his staff, and which was rewarded during the NCAA tournament season, seems to be fading away. It would be different if we had something to hang our hats on, but last year's ballyhooed freshmen class didn't produce much (not saying they won't, but the proof is in the production), we're playing three scholarships short this year, we'll likely be predicted to finish in the bottom of the Big Ten by near unanimous acclamation, and we have no commits for next year. And then, of course the Bam to the Balls announcement yesterday. No matter how tough the NU job is, you still gotta throw the rats some crumbs every now and then to keep up morale.

 

[freewillie07]

The way all the doomsayers get shut up is on the court. Are Kopp, Nance, Beran, Buie, Jones, Greer, Young, really a strong foundation for the future of the program? Then prove it. Win some games. We will learn a lot this season.

Collins has missed far too much while at NU, with the sole exception of the 2014 class and Dererk Pardon. Both in terms of who he failed to get to commit, and those who did end up commiting.

2015: Ash, Falzon. Both misses.
2016: Benson, Ivanauskas, Brown. All misses.
2017: Couldn’t bring in anyone besides Gaines (clearly not what the staff had in mind for the class)

That’s pretty bad! And explains why things went downhill fast after the Tournament team, which benefitted from the good fortune of having 4 above-average Big Ten players healthy the entire season (BMac, Lindsey, Law, Pardon) plus a few serviceable role players.

I realize injuries happen, and part of this is rotten luck. But it is what it is. We are in full rebuild mode, and Bam was a big part of that future promise. That’s why it hurt so bad.

 

[hdhntr1]

OK, do we have most of the grousing out of our system?

In this flood of poor-me over analysis, some of you really need to get your head on straight and find a more realistic foundation for your expectations. Medill's post is the start.

This is a BITCH of a job for so many reasons including a laughably uneducated and unsupportive fan base as we've seen since yesterday.

Things are far from perfect. I'm not crazy about where this thing is either. Any number of questions should be asked - development, recruiting philosophy, strategic flexibility. But they are still questions, aren't they? We have many positive examples and many bad examples.

However yesterday's news turned into final mandates for the program and firm opinions on '19-'20 recruiting ... in July ... even from people outside the usual pitchforks. Do you really think this is Kentucky?

Can I remind the more reasonable among you that Beran didn't commit until October last year? Kopp committed in September the year before.

Welcome to Northwestern. This is an ongoing battle to find that perfect balance between truly strong academics and strong athletics. Has something suddenly changed? NU is constantly fighting an uphill battle. And if I suggest NU loosen it grade restrictions, the egghead crowd will whine about how it lowers the value of their hard work. (Yes, that has been a regular past argument.)

So this is what we signed up for. If you want to kill the program EVERY time there's a hiccup, go root for Duke. You'll have fewer complaints.

Excuse me for repeating this, but one of the few things of value NU offers a coach is patience. If you dump a coach three years after a historic run and changing the trajectory of a program with fundraising and facilities, I don't want to see what's behind door number two. Here's the full list of off-season moves. Who would you have taken instead of Collins? Oats, Cronin, Buzz ...

How about the year before? There's two or three options there also.

Now who's realistic? Oats and ...?

For an example, look at who Cal ended up with - Mark Fox. He had two tourney bids in nine years at Georgia. He finished higher than sixth place in three of those years. I'm sure that's going to translate really well to Cal and some academic restrictions.

Vandy dumped Bryce Drew and ended up with a great name, Jerry Stackhouse - someone who has never recruited a day in his life.

I'm the last person to even approach being the rah-rah guy. But the supposed hardcore fans need to do better than this. The NU program is nowhere in the ballpark of being respected enough to make outside-the-box decisions. This needs to be played out ... and maybe even with a little support.

Realistic? On this board?

 

[7th Cir. Cat]

For me the argument that I find most frustrating is that Collins has upgraded our recruiting. Yes and No. On paper, it sort of seems that way. But in practice we have glaring holes in the roster, (PG) an unfortunate number of misses /transfers, and just general weirdness (Vassar, Lathon, BAM).

I'm convinced that Kopp will be 15 ppg type of player, i.e., a good to very good Big 10 player. I'm just not convinced about anyone else on the roster. If not Nance or Beran are truly a cut above then great, but the jury is out.

 

[Medill90]

Bam to the Balls

Well done.

 

[Medill90]

I would just add that the tournament team was built around B Mac who decommited for Indiana State.

And this year's back up center decommited from Alabama before NU got him.

So there's that.

 

[Sec.112]

... I think everybody recognizes this is a bitch of a job. It was a much BIGGER bitch before we had a remodeled arena, a new practice facility in the pipeline and an NCAA tournament appearance in the books ...

I'd characterize yesterday's reaction as more of a "Come to Jesus" realization that all the hope we invested in Collins and his staff, and which was rewarded during the NCAA tournament season, seems to be fading away.

I don't think people can recognize the true difficulty AND have a sudden realization just yesterday. If it took someone this long, the 400 signals of difficulty over the last two years obviously weren't apparent.

 

[IdahoAlum]

I don't think people can recognize the true difficulty AND have a sudden realization just yesterday. If it took someone this long, the 400 signals of difficulty over the last two years obviously weren't apparent.

Ok so it’s a gradual process — punctuated by a fairly significant de-commit.

 

[Sec.112]

For me the argument that I find most frustrating is that Collins has upgraded our recruiting. Yes and No. On paper, it sort of seems that way ...

I agree 100%. It's one of the reasons "development" was the first challenge I listed.

I'll take top 100s at NU most days of the week. But if they all turn out to be Falzon, you're dead in the water. You also need more production from a fringe recruit or two.

OTOH, outside the 100s you've had BMac, Pardon and to a certain extent Gaines and Lindsey.

I don't know how anybody can make a final conclusion based on that record, and the crux of the second group not having started their sophomore season.

 

[hdhntr1]

I agree 100%. It's one of the reasons "development" was the first challenge I listed.

I'll take top 100s at NU most days of the week. But if they all turn out to be Falzon, you're dead in the water. You also need more production from a fringe recruit or two.

OTOH, outside the 100s you've had BMac, Pardon and to a certain extent Gaines and Lindsey.

I don't know how anybody can make a final conclusion based on that record, and the crux of the second group not having started their sophomore season.

Falzon was coming along till the injuries. Rap was knocked out by injuries as well Not much can prepare you for that

 

[eastbaycat99]

Posters here convinced me the 20-21 team was the key season to evaluate progress that Collins made. With that said, the posts the last few days have focused on recruiting, which, I think, everyone knows is a very tall order in Evanston until some winning tradition is established. The other two pillars of success are player development and game coaching/system deployment, and I think 20-21 should be a fair year to benchmark those. Collins has brought in some talent, and the question is whether he can get the most from it by developing skill and adapting the system. In honesty, I am not optimistic based on what I have seen thus far, but I could be wrong. A .500 year in conference that year would be great, and a first round bye in the conference tournament probably acceptable. I do think that is the team is foundering at that point, Collins would be a fool not to start considering an alternate job (like I said previously, probably as an NBA assistant), as his stock would be depreciating at that point.
My final note on all this is how the way Collins does or does not reflect the values of the university in doing his job. To this point, I think there has been some good, some not so good. A dramatic downturn in this (a recruiting scandal, his being suspension for poor conduct, player conduct scandals, which I do not expect but are always possible) would completely change the equation for me.

 

[CommodoresAndCats]

Agreed with much of the sentiments by OP. But gosh, Collins needs to find a way to fill some classes. Rick Barnes was successful at Tennessee in large part because he filled classes with a bunch of dudes and reloaded when guys transferred out. You get enough bites at the 3 star apple and eventually you'll find some diamonds in the rough.

 

[NJCat]

In honesty, I am not optimistic based on what I have seen thus far, but I could be wrong. A .500 year in conference that year would be great, and a first round bye in the conference tournament probably acceptable. .

Ha.

Do you know how many .500 or better conference records NU has had in the last 50 seasons?

Two.

Two in 50 years. A .500 B1G record in 2019-'20 would be a remarkable accomplishment. COTY for Collins without a doubt.

 

[Medill90]

Agreed with much of the sentiments by OP. But gosh, Collins needs to find a way to fill some classes. Rick Barnes was successful at Tennessee in large part because he filled classes with a bunch of dudes and reloaded when guys transferred out. You get enough bites at the 3 star apple and eventually you'll find some diamonds in the rough.

The NU basketball admissions hurdle is not comparable to another D1 team outside the Ivy League

 

[willycat]

Posters here convinced me the 20-21 team was the key season to evaluate progress that Collins made. With that said, the posts the last few days have focused on recruiting, which, I think, everyone knows is a very tall order in Evanston until some winning tradition is established. The other two pillars of success are player development and game coaching/system deployment, and I think 20-21 should be a fair year to benchmark those. Collins has brought in some talent, and the question is whether he can get the most from it by developing skill and adapting the system. In honesty, I am not optimistic based on what I have seen thus far, but I could be wrong. A .500 year in conference that year would be great, and a first round bye in the conference tournament probably acceptable. I do think that is the team is foundering at that point, Collins would be a fool not to start considering an alternate job (like I said previously, probably as an NBA assistant), as his stock would be depreciating at that point.
My final note on all this is how the way Collins does or does not reflect the values of the university in doing his job. To this point, I think there has been some good, some not so good. A dramatic downturn in this (a recruiting scandal, his being suspension for poor conduct, player conduct scandals, which I do not expect but are always possible) would completely change the equation for me.

You missed the biggest pillar to success at NU. Admission standard are a bit too high. Also predicting scandals under Collins is just hyperbole.

 

[eastbaycat99]

You missed the biggest pillar to success at NU. Admission standard are a bit too high. Also predicting scandals under Collins is just hyperbole.

I acknowledged recruiting and wanted to move on, saying it is a very tall order in Evanston. I don’t think that is ignoring it.

I was not predicting a scandal, only saying that getting to basic competence is great, but athletics reflect the university, and if Collins were to countenance the crap that has gone on in a number of high profile programs, he should be cut loose if it happens. The Vasser stuff was a warning signal. I do not expect something like it to recur, but if it did, I would not want him retained.

 

[eastbaycat99]

Ha.

Do you know how many .500 or better conference records NU has had in the last 50 seasons?

Two.

Two in 50 years. A .500 B1G record in 2019-'20 would be a remarkable accomplishment. COTY for Collins without a doubt.

Two, coming off one in 1968, and I remember all 3. I basically meant that I am not hoping for a tournament bid or to compete for the conference, and I went on to say getting a bye the first round, that is, a 10th place finish in a conference that includes Rutgers, would be ok by me.

 

[Figrating]

Agreed with much of the sentiments by OP. But gosh, Collins needs to find a way to fill some classes. Rick Barnes was successful at Tennessee in large part because he filled classes with a bunch of dudes and reloaded when guys transferred out. You get enough bites at the 3 star apple and eventually you'll find some diamonds in the rough.

NU fans must respect CCC's efforts to recruit top talent. It's his decision to recruit the way he does and he must think he's gonna connect with more top players any minute. That's the only reason to leave unused scholarships floating around. But NU has TOO MANY! Take a chance or two on a long shot. The team needs players.

 

[mikewebb68]

NU fans must respect CCC's efforts to recruit top talent. It's his decision to recruit the way he does and he must think he's gonna connect with more top players any minute. That's the only reason to leave unused scholarships floating around. But NU has TOO MANY! Take a chance or two on a long shot. The team needs players.

The only reason we had unused schollies this year were the unprecedented # of transfers out after the season was over, when it was difficult to replace them at such a late juncture. As I pointed our in another thread, we are right back on track to have a full roster of players for 2020-1.

 

[Secho99]

The only reason we had unused schollies this year were the unprecedented # of transfers out after the season was over, when it was difficult to replace them at such a late juncture. As I pointed our in another thread, we are right back on track to have a full roster of players for 2020-1.

That's great and all, but given that we're on track to likely get beat up a bit this season, could the transfer portal become a concern?

It would be nice if we overachieve and everyone's on board and excited about the following season, but if it's a struggle it might be tempting for one or two guys to hit the eject button.

I'm a huge fan and I'll watch every game whether we're good or terrible, but as Styre said in the other thread it's not irrational to be concerned. The on-court results have been really disappointing since the tourney appearance and right now the outlook is for another rough year. Then we're hoping that a combination of holdovers who haven't broken out yet + new guys we haven't seen yet + guys we haven't even signed yet turn into a tourney team again in two years. I'd love for it to happen but my optimism is cautious at best.

 

[mikewebb68]

That's great and all, but given that we're on track to likely get beat up a bit this season, could the transfer portal become a concern?

It would be nice if we overachieve and everyone's on board and excited about the following season, but if it's a struggle it might be tempting for one or two guys to hit the eject button.

I'm a huge fan and I'll watch every game whether we're good or terrible, but as Styre said in the other thread it's not irrational to be concerned. The on-court results have been really disappointing since the tourney appearance and right now the outlook is for another rough year. Then we're hoping that a combination of holdovers who haven't broken out yet + new guys we haven't seen yet + guys we haven't even signed yet turn into a tourney team again in two years. I'd love for it to happen but my optimism is cautious at best.

Idudn't say it wasn't irrational to be concerned. It certainly is just fine ti be concerned. What the OP was talking about here was all the overeeactuve irrational,, sky is falling posts that seem to plague this board when there is a negative event, or even when there is not. And when peolle like me spout facts to conteract riduculous posts such as "cancel the MBB program" we are somehow labeled as Polyannas.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

NU fans must respect CCC's efforts to recruit top talent. It's his decision to recruit the way he does and he must think he's gonna connect with more top players any minute. That's the only reason to leave unused scholarships floating around. But NU has TOO MANY! Take a chance or two on a long shot. The team needs players.

Depends on definition of long shot. No way I am for taking a long shot and getting stuck with with a guy glued to the bench for FOUR years. An empty scholarship is one year. Neither is a good option. Can you imagine the hostility towards CCC from his detractors if he signed a completely unproductive player.

 

[IGNORE]

I agree 100%. It's one of the reasons "development" was the first challenge I listed.

I'll take top 100s at NU most days of the week. But if they all turn out to be Falzon, you're dead in the water. You also need more production from a fringe recruit or two.

OTOH, outside the 100s you've had BMac, Pardon and to a certain extent Gaines and Lindsey.

I don't know how anybody can make a final conclusion based on that record, and the crux of the second group not having started their sophomore season.

I agree. But I remember the BC wars. And for those that wanted him gone, when did you cross over? What was the time frame? It wouldn’t be in the archives.

 

[IGNORE]

Falzon was coming along till the injuries. Rap was knocked out by injuries as well Not much can prepare you for that

Says who? Please provide the objective data to support your hypothesis.

 

[Pukecat]

The only reason we had unused schollies this year were the unprecedented # of transfers out after the season was over, when it was difficult to replace them at such a late juncture.

It was difficult to replace the transfers because it was hard getting transfers to get admitted, and the ones who could get admitted didn't want to be here.

 

[IGNORE]

Idudn't say it wasn't irrational to be concerned. It certainly is just fine ti be concerned. What the OP was talking about here was all the overeeactuve irrational,, sky is falling posts that seem to plague this board when there is a negative event, or even when there is not. And when peolle like me spout facts to conteract riduculous posts such as "cancel the MBB program" we are somehow labeled as Polyannas.

Mike, you ok? Worried the number of guys expressing legit concerns might be overloading your circuits.

 

[IGNORE]

Depends on definition of long shot. No way I am for taking a long shot and getting stuck with with a guy glued to the bench for FOUR years. An empty scholarship is one year. Neither is a good option. Can you imagine the hostility towards CCC from his detractors if he signed a completely unproductive player.

Like... never mind. Low hanging fruit.

 

[VirginiaWildcat]

I agree. But I remember the BC wars. And for those that wanted him gone, when did you cross over? What was the time frame? It wouldn’t be in the archives.

3 conference wins in 2 seasons (seasons 7 and 8) did it for me. If that happens with Collins, make a change please!

 

[mikewebb68]

Mike, you ok? Worried the number of guys expressing legit concerns might be overloading your circuits.

I'm just fine, always just here for the entertainment! How's that Haas guy doing in the NBA anyway?

 

[curdog]

3 conference wins in 2 seasons (seasons 7 and 8) did it for me. If that happens with Collins, make a change please!

How about 4 conf wins in year 6 and maybe 2 or 3 in year 7? That’s where Collins is right now

 

[IGNORE]

I'm just fine, always just here for the entertainment! How's that Haas guy doing in the NBA anyway?

I hear he hangs out w Swanigan.

 

[IGNORE]

How about 4 conf wins in year 6 and maybe 2 or 3 in year 7? That’s where Collins is right now

Thanks to you and Va for being only two brave enough to answer. I suspect because others know their answers could likely come to pass again and they don’t want to be on record. That’s fine - pretty standard around here.

20-21 has been long billed as the big year, the year they get back to the dance, the year they become competitive.

I have had questions from scheduling decisions and recruiting supervision to selection of recruits, developing players and retaining players. Ultimately, the only think that really matters is performance.

Mike can jump in and ignore all problems and point to the positives now. I will admit that our recruiting has seemingly improved, though the results with his own players has not been good.

But despite the positives, the concerns above are real and growing. In my mind, CCC is on a short leash. He is paid handsomely to overcome barriers, to excel where others haven’t, to anticipate and then avoid or fix problems.

20-21 must be a good season. By that time we will have bottomed third and low wins for three consecutive years. If a fourth emerges, that says to me that he is not the guy to take us to the next level. And maybe nobody can because of the admissions issue. But we should not be wasting millions on marketing, coaching, etc unless we are trying to succeed.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Thanks to you and Va for being only two brave enough to answer. I suspect because others know their answers could likely come to pass again and they don’t want to be on record. That’s fine - pretty standard around here.

20-21 has been long billed as the big year, the year they get back to the dance, the year they become competitive.

I have had questions from scheduling decisions and recruiting supervision to selection of recruits, developing players and retaining players. Ultimately, the only think that really matters is performance.

Mike can jump in and ignore all problems and point to the positives now. I will admit that our recruiting has seemingly improved, though the results with his own players has not been good.

But despite the positives, the concerns above are real and growing. In my mind, CCC is on a short leash. He is paid handsomely to overcome barriers, to excel where others haven’t, to anticipate and then avoid or fix problems.

20-21 must be a good season. By that time we will have bottomed third and low wins for three consecutive years. If a fourth emerges, that says to me that he is not the guy to take us to the next level. And maybe nobody can because of the admissions issue. But we should not be wasting millions on marketing, coaching, etc unless we are trying to succeed.

Whats your solution Bob? Churning Coaches turns NU basketball into Illinois Football.

I expect us to stink next year but still show significant player development to give hope for the following year. I keep CCC through at least 20-21 and probably a year longer to give his second wave a chance. This is THE toughest job in the B1G and unless you can get Izzo, NU will need to catch recruiting breaks where players outperform their ratings.

 

[Pukecat]

Thanks to you and Va for being only two brave enough to answer. I suspect because others know their answers could likely come to pass again and they don’t want to be on record. That’s fine - pretty standard around here.

20-21 has been long billed as the big year, the year they get back to the dance, the year they become competitive.

I have had questions from scheduling decisions and recruiting supervision to selection of recruits, developing players and retaining players. Ultimately, the only think that really matters is performance.

Mike can jump in and ignore all problems and point to the positives now. I will admit that our recruiting has seemingly improved, though the results with his own players has not been good.

But despite the positives, the concerns above are real and growing. In my mind, CCC is on a short leash. He is paid handsomely to overcome barriers, to excel where others haven’t, to anticipate and then avoid or fix problems.

20-21 must be a good season. By that time we will have bottomed third and low wins for three consecutive years. If a fourth emerges, that says to me that he is not the guy to take us to the next level. And maybe nobody can because of the admissions issue. But we should not be wasting millions on marketing, coaching, etc unless we are trying to succeed.

Doesn't it all depend on how grateful you are for the NCAA appearance?

If he continues to do this poorly, do we care since we got our one shining moment? Some of us don't. It's not like he is ever going to win the conference or go to the Final Four with this idiotic admissions policy. Same for Fitz and the CF Playoff. We handicap ourselves as insurance against success.