Athletic Article Ranking BB Coaches

[fcmchi]

The writer ranks Collins in the 5th tier, out of seven, of major college coaches. One source says given the difficulties coaching at NU, Collins probably can’t go any higher:


Perhaps the trickiest guy to figure out is Chris Collins. He jumped up a tier after taking Northwestern to the NCAA Tournament for the second time in program history. Sources laud his ability to do the darned near impossible in Evanston and his decision to surround himself with savvy coaches. More than one industry insider cited the addition of Chris Lowery to run the defense as a difference-maker for the Wildcats, who jumped from 73 to 22 in adjusted defense per KenPom with Lowery on the bench. But the question for Collins isn’t about what he has done, it’s about what more can he do.

“You were right to move him up one, but I don’t think he’ll ever go higher than this in that job,” the administrative source said. “It’s so hard. Think about it. He’s gotten Northwestern to the NCAA Tournament more than the rest of the planet.”

 

[fcmchi]

Here’s the link if you have a subscription.

College basketball coaching tiers 2023: Dan Hurley moves into Tier 1, John Calipari falls

Based on expert input and our own criteria, here's how we rank the top coaches in Division I.

theathletic.com

 

[SDakaGordie]

The writer ranks Collins in the 5th tier, out of seven, of major college coaches. One source says given the difficulties coaching at NU, Collins probably can’t go any higher:


Perhaps the trickiest guy to figure out is Chris Collins. He jumped up a tier after taking Northwestern to the NCAA Tournament for the second time in program history. Sources laud his ability to do the darned near impossible in Evanston and his decision to surround himself with savvy coaches. More than one industry insider cited the addition of Chris Lowery to run the defense as a difference-maker for the Wildcats, who jumped from 73 to 22 in adjusted defense per KenPom with Lowery on the bench. But the question for Collins isn’t about what he has done, it’s about what more can he do.

“You were right to move him up one, but I don’t think he’ll ever go higher than this in that job,” the administrative source said. “It’s so hard. Think about it. He’s gotten Northwestern to the NCAA Tournament more than the rest of the planet.”

So dumb to think the job prevents him from being fairly evaluated as a coach. He’s way above Tier 5 for having taken NU to the Dance twice. Did Bill Foster become a bad coach once he came to NU? Let the world know - Collins is an excellent coach!

This may get some responses…

 

[fcmchi]

Here the authors describe their “methodology”:

We reviewed these tiers with a former player-turned-analyst, an X’s and O’s guru, multiple former coaches, a high-profile grassroots director, a current university basketball administrator and a search firm head. All were granted anonymity in exchange for their candor. We took their opinions, used them to shape some of what you see here and will share with you some of their insight.

There’s no exact definition of what makes a great coach — be it drawing up plays, in-game adjustments, scouting chops, recruiting, program leadership, player relations, etc. What matters most is arbitrary, hence our variant panel. Each agreed that the challenge of this task is the quantity, quality and variety of college basketball coaches. That, and, of course, the results.

 

[IGNORE2]

The writer ranks Collins in the 5th tier, out of seven, of major college coaches. One source says given the difficulties coaching at NU, Collins probably can’t go any higher:


Perhaps the trickiest guy to figure out is Chris Collins. He jumped up a tier after taking Northwestern to the NCAA Tournament for the second time in program history. Sources laud his ability to do the darned near impossible in Evanston and his decision to surround himself with savvy coaches. More than one industry insider cited the addition of Chris Lowery to run the defense as a difference-maker for the Wildcats, who jumped from 73 to 22 in adjusted defense per KenPom with Lowery on the bench. But the question for Collins isn’t about what he has done, it’s about what more can he do.

“You were right to move him up one, but I don’t think he’ll ever go higher than this in that job,” the administrative source said. “It’s so hard. Think about it. He’s gotten Northwestern to the NCAA Tournament more than the rest of the planet.”

Spot on. If he is bright, he finds the offensive equivalent to Lowery and focuses on recruiting. Lot like early Fitz, not the development guy but can be the recruiting guy.

Fitz had Hank, CC got Lowery. Just needs an O guy to separate himself and truly make NU a BB program. With the Coach gone at Duke, the world is wide open for a Perot type coach. (Ross Perot openly said he wasn’t the smartest guy in the room but that he surrounded himself with the smartest people in the room.)

 

[IGNORE2]

Fun part of Asia is I get to read and write while most others are sleeping.

 

[Hkjb]

Fun part of Asia is I get to read and write while most others are sleeping.

But not everyone....

 

[IGNORE2]

But not everyone....

Keep waiting for Ecat to say hi. Starting to think he blocked me

 

[Eurocat]

Fitz had Hank, CC got Lowery

I think you are right. Lowery is in basketball what Hank was in football.

 

[SDakaGordie]

The overseas contingent seems to think Lowery is the program savior. He has certainly helped. But Collins found him and gave him coaching freedom; and Lowery did not recruit any of our players from last year’s NCAA team, to my knowledge. How quickly we go back to “blame Collins” for everything not meeting your (unrealistic, given our academic limitations, horrendous basketball history, small fan base, etc.) standards to “give credit to others” for unprecedented success in our program (vs. the last 90 years)!

Not sure you heard, but Scheyer just got a big extension; the Coach’s legacy at Duke will allow Duke to continue to flourish. Recruits follow the successful program, not just some offensive savant. (See Carmody years).

As Mick Cronin said - Collins has worked a miracle at NU. That deserves a top tier ranking.

Where would you have put Fitz if this were a football coach ranking? The biggest question for Collins is whether he can create more sustained success like Fitz, though we know that is a subjective term.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

I think you are right. Lowery is in basketball what Hank was in football.

We should just hire both to lead our revenue sports and all will be sunshine and rainbows at NU.

 

[fcmchi]

The overseas contingent seems to think Lowery is the program savior. He has certainly helped. But Collins found him and gave him coaching freedom; and Lowery did not recruit any of our players from last year’s NCAA team, to my knowledge. How quickly we go back to “blame Collins” for everything not meeting your (unrealistic, given our academic limitations, horrendous basketball history, small fan base, etc.) standards to “give credit to others” for unprecedented success in our program (vs. the last 90 years)!

Not sure you heard, but Scheyer just got a big extension; the Coach’s legacy at Duke will allow Duke to continue to flourish. Recruits follow the successful program, not just some offensive savant. (See Carmody years).

As Mick Cronin said - Collins has worked a miracle at NU. That deserves a top tier ranking.

Where would you have put Fitz if this were a football coach ranking? The biggest question for Collins is whether he can create more sustained success like Fitz, though we know that is a subjective term.

SDG,

If this were rating Fitz, based on his body of work up to the beginning of the 2019 season I would have ranked him somewhere in the Second tier, which in the Athletic article includes coaches from 8-22. Based on the last four years, even including winning the West in ‘20 I would have ranked him in the Sixth tier, maybe even the last tier, which is Seventh.

 

[clarificationcat]

I think you are right. Lowery is in basketball what Hank was in football.

The defensive coordinator in football prepares the defensive game plan for each game, has a huge role in deciding who starts along with the position coaches, and is generally solely responsible for determining what defense we are in on each play. That's a lot of responsibility. Some head football coaches defer to their coordinators almost entirely.

Chris Lowery taught and helped install some defensive principles that focused on trapping (primarily the post) more aggressively and rotating guys accordingly and he and Collins got everyone to buy into it. I am sure he puts defensive game plans together as well but that's much less critical in basketball where it's much more free flowing. It also helped that we almost always had 4 guys on the floor who could switch pretty seamlessly, another critical component of Lowery's defensive philosophy. Having Audige and Nicholson helped a lot as well. During games, Lowery sits on the bench and doesn't say much unless Collins asks him a question. It's entirely Collins show during games.

Comparing Lowery to Hank does an unbelievable disservice to Hank and a lesser one to Collins. Lowery clearly made a big difference on defense but he's not changing our defense on each possession and switching personnel throughout the game. I assume he's a very good teacher but if he were to leave I am confident that the rest of the coaching staff can continue to run the same defense with the right players. It's not anywhere close to what Hank did.

As for offense, in basketball that's almost all about about recruiting better players. Berry and Barnhizer got plenty of good looks against UCLA. They missed them. We outplayed UCLA in the half court but lost in transition because they had better athletes. People on this board love talking about hero ball. I think they need to accept that's how basketball is played at the end of games. Put the ball in the hands of your best players and let them create a shot or an opportunity for a teammate. We won a bunch of games last year because Buie and Audige hit bit shots at the end of games. When they made them they were hero's and when they missed, folks questioned the offense.

 

[SDakaGordie]

SDG,

If this were rating Fitz, based on his body of work up to the beginning of the 2019 season I would have ranked him somewhere in the Second tier, which in the Athletic article includes coaches from 8-22. Based on the last four years, even including winning the West in ‘20 I would have ranked him in the Sixth tier, maybe even the last tier, which is Seventh.

Thanks for your thoughts. I would have Fitz higher. While he made a mistake with JON and likely Bajakian, he has done SO much to make this program something that the entire nation knows and respects. Just look at the bowl games for one easy data point. Coaching is so much more than Xs and Os (admittedly not his strong suit) - setting goals, messaging, leading, recruiting, hiring, managing, etc., and Fitz was mostly really good in those areas. (He obviously had some glaring weaknesses other than Xs and Os). But Fitz and NU football are / were synonymous; hence, there is so much uncertainty about our future. So to think he is not in one of the top coach tiers is counter to my judgment. (I truly believe Collins will, if he has not already, get basketball to the same or better national recognition status as Fitz did football).

 

[PurpleFaze]

Lowery may have been a huge addition last year, but as the CEO of the program Collins should get full credit for hiring the guy and giving him the freedom to make a difference

 

[fcmchi]

Thanks for your thoughts. I would have Fitz higher. While he made a mistake with JON and likely Bajakian, he has done SO much to make this program something that the entire nation knows and respects. Just look at the bowl games for one easy data point. Coaching is so much more than Xs and Os (admittedly not his strong suit) - setting goals, messaging, leading, recruiting, hiring, managing, etc., and Fitz was mostly really good in those areas. (He obviously had some glaring weaknesses other than Xs and Os). But Fitz and NU football are / were synonymous; hence, there is so much uncertainty about our future. So to think he is not in one of the top coach tiers is counter to my judgment. (I truly believe Collins will, if he has not already, get basketball to the same or better national recognition status as Fitz did football).

SDG,

Their top tier only had 7 coaches. I agree with everything you said about Fitz’s impact on the program. But I would have, before the last few years, ranked him in the second tier, at 15 or so.

Unfortunately, the inability to recruit a Big Ten caliber QB out of high school since Thornton along with the loss of Hank has caused the program to regress.

 

[IGNORE2]

The overseas contingent seems to think Lowery is the program savior. He has certainly helped. But Collins found him and gave him coaching freedom; and Lowery did not recruit any of our players from last year’s NCAA team, to my knowledge. How quickly we go back to “blame Collins” for everything not meeting your (unrealistic, given our academic limitations, horrendous basketball history, small fan base, etc.) standards to “give credit to others” for unprecedented success in our program (vs. the last 90 years)!

Not sure you heard, but Scheyer just got a big extension; the Coach’s legacy at Duke will allow Duke to continue to flourish. Recruits follow the successful program, not just some offensive savant. (See Carmody years).

As Mick Cronin said - Collins has worked a miracle at NU. That deserves a top tier ranking.

Where would you have put Fitz if this were a football coach ranking? The biggest question for Collins is whether he can create more sustained success like Fitz, though we know that is a subjective term.

The counter is that PF found Hank and gave the coaching freedom…. Blah blah blah - and we have the body of work for both PF and CCC wo their defensive wiz.

I guess to sum your argument - nobody can win anything at NU making PF and CCC great just by agreeing to come coach for millions. And when they do win and there happens to be a specific D coach involved then forget about nobody can win at NU, only CCC and PF can win at NU. Very well tailored, self serving explanation.

I’ll pass. I will state both PF and CCC can be great recruiters and faces of the program. XOs and development is not their strength. When they surround themselves with high quality coaches (whether by threat, force or whatever), their programs can excel.

The NU can’t win is a red herring embraced by non athlete losers. NU can win with the right coaches that can recruit scheme players and develop them. Hank demonstrated that. JON revealed PFs weaknesses.

Lowery appears to be able to (though let’s wait a season or two more to make sure not a fluke). The full body of work pre Lowery highlights CCC flaws.

And I’m not going to root for Lowery’s departure to prove my point as that would be to bite my nose to spite SD. Nope, I’m going to root for great D, pray CCC stumbles into a great O guy and enjoy the only sport we have left to enjoy.

 

[IGNORE2]

We should just hire both to lead our revenue sports and all will be sunshine and rainbows at NU.

Hank and PF are never coming back and it has nothing to do with retirement.

 

[IGNORE2]

The defensive coordinator in football prepares the defensive game plan for each game, has a huge role in deciding who starts along with the position coaches, and is generally solely responsible for determining what defense we are in on each play. That's a lot of responsibility. Some head football coaches defer to their coordinators almost entirely.

Chris Lowery taught and helped install some defensive principles that focused on trapping (primarily the post) more aggressively and rotating guys accordingly and he and Collins got everyone to buy into it. I am sure he puts defensive game plans together as well but that's much less critical in basketball where it's much more free flowing. It also helped that we almost always had 4 guys on the floor who could switch pretty seamlessly, another critical component of Lowery's defensive philosophy. Having Audige and Nicholson helped a lot as well. During games, Lowery sits on the bench and doesn't say much unless Collins asks him a question. It's entirely Collins show during games.

Comparing Lowery to Hank does an unbelievable disservice to Hank and a lesser one to Collins. Lowery clearly made a big difference on defense but he's not changing our defense on each possession and switching personnel throughout the game. I assume he's a very good teacher but if he were to leave I am confident that the rest of the coaching staff can continue to run the same defense with the right players. It's not anywhere close to what Hank did.

As for offense, in basketball that's almost all about about recruiting better players. Berry and Barnhizer got plenty of good looks against UCLA. They missed them. We outplayed UCLA in the half court but lost in transition because they had better athletes. People on this board love talking about hero ball. I think they need to accept that's how basketball is played at the end of games. Put the ball in the hands of your best players and let them create a shot or an opportunity for a teammate. We won a bunch of games last year because Buie and Audige hit bit shots at the end of games. When they made them they were hero's and when they missed, folks questioned the offense.

Guess I missed our offensive juggernaut throughout the season. Maybe one of the stat guys can list our O and D rankings under CCC?

 

[clarificationcat]

Guess I missed our offensive juggernaut throughout the season. Maybe one of the stat guys can list our O and D rankings under CCC?

You seem to be ignoring the primary point I was making about offense. It's a lot more about the players than the schemes. Recruit better players and your offense looks a lot better. It really is that simple. Collins has been around some of the brightest minds in basketball since he was old enough to dribble a basketball. He's not stupid. He knows as many plays as any other coach in college basketball. The top teams in the conference have better players. UCLA had 3 guys get drafted last year and a bunch of other guys that were much more highly recruited than anybody on our team. When Carmody had bad players, the offense was painfully bad. When he had Shurna, Thompson and Crawford, the offense was good to very good. Weird. My criticism of Collins has been he had some really poor recruiting classes, he failed to recruit any stars like Carmody and I don't think he had done a good job of player development in many cases.

 

[SDakaGordie]

The counter is that PF found Hank and gave the coaching freedom…. Blah blah blah - and we have the body of work for both PF and CCC wo their defensive wiz.

I guess to sum your argument - nobody can win anything at NU making PF and CCC great just by agreeing to come coach for millions. And when they do win and there happens to be a specific D coach involved then forget about nobody can win at NU, only CCC and PF can win at NU. Very well tailored, self serving explanation.

I’ll pass. I will state both PF and CCC can be great recruiters and faces of the program. XOs and development is not their strength. When they surround themselves with high quality coaches (whether by threat, force or whatever), their programs can excel.

The NU can’t win is a red herring embraced by non athlete losers. NU can win with the right coaches that can recruit scheme players and develop them. Hank demonstrated that. JON revealed PFs weaknesses.

Lowery appears to be able to (though let’s wait a season or two more to make sure not a fluke). The full body of work pre Lowery highlights CCC flaws.

And I’m not going to root for Lowery’s departure to prove my point as that would be to bite my nose to spite SD. Nope, I’m going to root for great D, pray CCC stumbles into a great O guy and enjoy the only sport we have left to enjoy.

Who are these D guys and O guys at other schools? Either they exist everywhere else or your argument is based on NU finding two needles in a haystack that no one else can find. Pretty realistic argument on your part. But please do let me know so you can disprove my “loser” perspective.

 

[IGNORE2]

You seem to be ignoring the primary point I was making about offense. It's a lot more about the players than the schemes. Recruit better players and your offense looks a lot better. It really is that simple. Collins has been around some of the brightest minds in basketball since he was old enough to dribble a basketball. He's not stupid. He knows as many plays as any other coach in college basketball. The top teams in the conference have better players. UCLA had 3 guys get drafted last year and a bunch of other guys that were much more highly recruited than anybody on our team. When Carmody had bad players, the offense was painfully bad. When he had Shurna, Thompson and Crawford, the offense was good to very good. Weird. My criticism of Collins has been he had some really poor recruiting classes, he failed to recruit any stars like Carmody and I don't think he had done a good job of player development in many cases.

We had some highly rated players. Good enough to play for Duke and NC. So I disagree. It’s about employing an effective scheme, recruiting into that scheme and developing the players.

Forcing Nance into the 5 was dumb. Always was dumb. And at the expense of playing true 5.

What you are glancing over is that apologists will craft every excuse known to man to justify why failure is not the fault of savior while dumping all praise on same savior for success.

If CCC owns the two successful years, then he owns all the unsuccessful ones too. NU admissions and reputation does NOT change yearly. Only the players that CCC recruits change. Sometimes the coaches change.

Last year we brought every player that ultimately started and lost two guys that played for NC and Duke. What changed? Lowery was the main change. Don’t want to credit him - fine, pin all the preceding years to CCC too!

 

[IGNORE2]

You seem to be ignoring the primary point I was making about offense. It's a lot more about the players than the schemes. Recruit better players and your offense looks a lot better. It really is that simple. Collins has been around some of the brightest minds in basketball since he was old enough to dribble a basketball. He's not stupid. He knows as many plays as any other coach in college basketball. The top teams in the conference have better players. UCLA had 3 guys get drafted last year and a bunch of other guys that were much more highly recruited than anybody on our team. When Carmody had bad players, the offense was painfully bad. When he had Shurna, Thompson and Crawford, the offense was good to very good. Weird. My criticism of Collins has been he had some really poor recruiting classes, he failed to recruit any stars like Carmody and I don't think he had done a good job of player development in many cases.

Oh, and carmody had other good years. And his recruiting was pretty consistent.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Oh, and carmody had other good years. And his recruiting was pretty consistent.

Maybe the stats guys can list all those good Carmody years?

 

[IGNORE2]

Who are these D guys and O guys at other schools? Either they exist everywhere else or your argument is based on NU finding two needles in a haystack that no one else can find. Pretty realistic argument on your part. But please do let me know so you can disprove my “loser” perspective.

I’m not such the MBB fan that I know the niches of coaches around the country. You can claim they don’t exist. Ok. I guess that shows you know as much as I do about MBB around the country. Seems like some folks knew Lowery was D specialist coming in. Hmmmm…fancy that.

But we can coalesce around a winning program. You can give all the credit to CCC. I will credit Lowery and the players and see how the O develops this year, how the players are used, the minutes distributed.

And as long as they win - doesn’t really matter that we disagree. Should they start to lose, one of us will have to balance the AD’s response with our continued support. For example, you won’t hear me complain about the public thrashing doled out to CCC. Love the results. And I’m very much NOT a Gagg fan.

So let’s hope that Lowery (for me) and CCC (for you) stay and enjoy growing success. Because any departure (while possibly proving one of us righter) will jeopardize that success.

 

[IGNORE2]

Maybe the stats guys can list all those good Carmody years?

After the O and D rankings throughout the CCC period, sure. I’ll be using those to bolster the earlier argument.

I picked up a new follower. Apparently Lou enjoys my posts! Does he follow any of you?

 

[SDakaGordie]

I’m not such the MBB fan that I know the niches of coaches around the country. You can claim they don’t exist. Ok. I guess that shows you know as much as I do about MBB around the country. Seems like some folks knew Lowery was D specialist coming in. Hmmmm…fancy that.

But we can coalesce around a winning program. You can give all the credit to CCC. I will credit Lowery and the players and see how the O develops this year, how the players are used, the minutes distributed.

And as long as they win - doesn’t really matter that we disagree. Should they start to lose, one of us will have to balance the AD’s response with our continued support. For example, you won’t hear me complain about the public thrashing doled out to CCC. Love the results. And I’m very much NOT a Gagg fan.

So let’s hope that Lowery (for me) and CCC (for you) stay and enjoy growing success. Because any departure (while possibly proving one of us righter) will jeopardize that success.

I know these types of coaches are not common. That means your argument that NU should have them is specious. You just won’t acknowledge (you ignore, ironically) that NU faces limitations in recruiting, and thus all of your arguments are “self-serving”. Overcoming these limitations and defying all reasonable odds of success are reasons why I give so much credit to CCC. You just still can’t admit the undeniable fact that the odds are stacked against us…troubling.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

The efforts exerted by this board to undermine the achievements of Collins in leading the team are truly remarkable. On two separate occasions, he has reconstructed the team's roster entirely for the tournament. Furthermore, the coaching staff has also undergone substantial changes during that period. One cannot have grown up with a father like Doug Collins, been coached by Coach K, served as an assistant under Amaker, and held the position of associate HC under Coach K without acquiring a deep understanding of strategic plays.

On this board, CC's tactical abilities are grossly undervalued. The team's defense and their in-game adjustments under his leadership have been consistently strong. Admittedly, the offensive side of the game presents its challenges, considering the level of talent NU acquires. Nevertheless, NU still incorporates a fair share of planned plays. They frequently create opportunities for open shots, which unfortunately do not always convert. It is worth acknowledging that Lowry's contribution to the team is immense, particularly in teaching defensive fundamentals. His expertise lies in mentoring players on how to remain active in passing lanes and maintain proper defensive positioning, both of which are crucial aspects of the game.

It is important to note that comparing an assistant basketball coach to a coordinator in football is not a fair analogy. Collins should be commended for his ability to hire talented assistant coaches, as this highlights his own expertise rather than detracting from it. Let’s enjoy the achievements of this team under his tutelage and look forward to this upcoming season. Go cats!

 

[GatoLouco]

On this board, CC's tactical abilities are grossly undervalued. The team's defense and their in-game adjustments under his leadership have been consistently strong.

I am trying to reconcile this with my own eyes, especially when I agree with so much of your post, but can't, just can't.

I have memories of being in Champagne 3/4 years ago (Spencer year) and seeing a zone defense that was a complete clusterf***. It was just 5 guys chasing the ball. I have memories of Beran being completely lost, in man to man, of where he was supposed to be relative to the ball. And so on and so on.

No defense is perfect, and those were examples of bad years. That surely influences my perspective. But they were also examples of a team not coached by a novice. It was 5 to 6 years into CC tenure.

What I also believe, in CC's defense is that:

1. The team never lacked effort. They always tried, hard. No team always tries hard without a coach that pushes them to do so
2. The players always seemed to like him - reflected in point #1 above and, institutional advantages or not, in less deflections to the portal
3. CC has always recruited well above expectations - I don't deny our disadvantages in recruiting but, to me, over the last 3/4 years we had pretty decent talent (albeit, initially, of a very tender age). I've always found the reasoning we bombed so badly a couple of years because our talent was sub par an effort to excuse for CC for his many, many mistakes in those season. I believe last season proved our talent was not nearly as sub par as some believed.
4. This is the most important one - CC was open minded enough to make changes to plug in gaps in his own capabilities. I don't believe PF, for example, ever even came close to that type of mentality. CC brought Lowery in. If he did not, and it was forced on him, he allowed him to be influential. I gained a lot of respect for him because of this. It should be an easy thing to do, but it is not always the case with egos and all. Especially when you are an established coach.

Next season will tell us more of the story. Teams will be more prepared for our switch on screens/picks, double the post, etc. Opponents adapt, like we are expected to adapt and continue to mutate as needed.

 

[SDakaGordie]

I am trying to reconcile this with my own eyes, especially when I agree with so much of your post, but can't, just can't.

I have memories of being in Champagne 3/4 years ago (Spencer year) and seeing a zone defense that was a complete clusterf***. It was just 5 guys chasing the ball. I have memories of Beran being completely lost, in man to man, of where he was supposed to be relative to the ball. And so on and so on.

No defense is perfect, and those were examples of bad years. That surely influences my perspective. But they were also examples of a team not coached by a novice. It was 5 to 6 years into CC tenure.

What I also believe, in CC's defense is that:

1. The team never lacked effort. They always tried, hard. No team always tries hard without a coach that pushes them to do so
2. The players always seemed to like him - reflected in point #1 above and, institutional advantages or not, in less deflections to the portal
3. CC has always recruited well above expectations - I don't deny our disadvantages in recruiting but, to me, over the last 3/4 years we had pretty decent talent (albeit, initially, of a very tender age). I've always found the reasoning we bombed so badly a couple of years because our talent was sub par an effort to excuse for CC for his many, many mistakes in those season. I believe last season proved our talent was not nearly as sub par as some believed.
4. This is the most important one - CC was open minded enough to make changes to plug in gaps in his own capabilities. I don't believe PF, for example, ever even came close to that type of mentality. CC brought Lowery in. If he did not, and it was forced on him, he allowed him to be influential. I gained a lot of respect for him because of this. It should be an easy thing to do, but it is not always the case with egos and all. Especially when you are an established coach.

Next season will tell us more of the story. Teams will be more prepared for our switch on screens/picks, double the post, etc. Opponents adapt, like we are expected to adapt and continue to mutate as needed.

He tries zone (a few times; certainly not more than a few minutes in a few games) and is unsuccessful and that makes it “bad years”?

 

[GatoLouco]

He tries zone (a few times; certainly not more than a few minutes in a few games) and is unsuccessful and that makes it “bad years”?

The year Spencer played we played zone at least 80% of the time. And, to me, clearly no one in the staff was an expert on teaching it.

And I mentioned "bad years" as a way of saying my negative views on defensive principles might be skewed by the fact we sucked.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I am trying to reconcile this with my own eyes, especially when I agree with so much of your post, but can't, just can't.

I have memories of being in Champagne 3/4 years ago (Spencer year) and seeing a zone defense that was a complete clusterf***. It was just 5 guys chasing the ball. I have memories of Beran being completely lost, in man to man, of where he was supposed to be relative to the ball. And so on and so on.

No defense is perfect, and those were examples of bad years. That surely influences my perspective. But they were also examples of a team not coached by a novice. It was 5 to 6 years into CC tenure.

What I also believe, in CC's defense is that:

1. The team never lacked effort. They always tried, hard. No team always tries hard without a coach that pushes them to do so
2. The players always seemed to like him - reflected in point #1 above and, institutional advantages or not, in less deflections to the portal
3. CC has always recruited well above expectations - I don't deny our disadvantages in recruiting but, to me, over the last 3/4 years we had pretty decent talent (albeit, initially, of a very tender age). I've always found the reasoning we bombed so badly a couple of years because our talent was sub par an effort to excuse for CC for his many, many mistakes in those season. I believe last season proved our talent was not nearly as sub par as some believed.
4. This is the most important one - CC was open minded enough to make changes to plug in gaps in his own capabilities. I don't believe PF, for example, ever even came close to that type of mentality. CC brought Lowery in. If he did not, and it was forced on him, he allowed him to be influential. I gained a lot of respect for him because of this. It should be an easy thing to do, but it is not always the case with egos and all. Especially when you are an established coach.

Next season will tell us more of the story. Teams will be more prepared for our switch on screens/picks, double the post, etc. Opponents adapt, like we are expected to adapt and continue to mutate as needed.

Rewatch the Wisconsin game from 2014 and witness the undeniable proof that Collins is truly a coach with a strong focus on defense. Despite not being responsible for recruiting the players, he managed to completely transform the Princeton offense-oriented team into a defensive powerhouse. From the moment he assumed the role, Collins has continuously emphasized the importance of rebounding and solid defense. While I personally may not prefer zone defense, it's necessary to acknowledge that previous roster limitations that have sometimes hindered the effectiveness of man-to-man defense.

Collins had major challenges at the beginning of his career, primarily dealing with players egos. There have been numerous instances where players failed to fully embrace the team's system, leading to chemistry issues. The most notable example was the team's downfall following the tournament season. However, I believe Collins has made significant improvements in this aspect, and having your team leader be a player like Buie, who possesses exceptional character, has been instrumental in reinforcing the culture for the team.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Its really the same arguments about Collins. I'm not shocked that Collins was considered a Tier 5 coach (out of 7 tiers) by people who try to rate such things. And that means he was considered a Tier 6 coach before last season. Probably a little harsh.

Obviously I don't buy the argument that academic standards make it "impossible" to recruit. 2-3 guys a year. Northwestern is a premier choice for intelligent kids who want to play Power 6 basketball. Not the "Top 50" NBA prospects. Recruit accordingly. And use the NU grad school appeal to fill gaps via the transfer portal.

After that first season., Collins flailed chasing the NBA guys, but has re-focused after the bad years, with good results. Grad school portal pickups have been helpful too. There is no doubt that he's been getting talented players for 4-5 years now. Gragg screwed Collins' recruiting after the 2021-22 season with his public statement, so that was a temporary (unnecessary) setback People seem to be forgetting just how bad the program looked a year ago to nearly everyone on the message board. Some of us saw the significant potential in the disregarded Nicholson and Barnhizer and had hope.

Admittedly, I had practically given up on Collins as a strategist / in-game coach, but he made some positive strides last year. Prior to last season, there were a lot of coaching moves that didn't make sense and were not supported by the results.

The anecdote that amuses me most is that a few of us opined that NU should hire Bruce Weber as an interim coach, to restore order if Collins was fired. Weber's teams always seemed to outplay their "talent."
I did not know that Chris Lowery was the assistant wizard behind Weber's success who also happened to be seeking a new opportunity.

To Collins' credit, he hired Lowery and learned some things from him. The impact on individual players and the team as a whole has been undeniable.

 

[clarificationcat]

We had some highly rated players. Good enough to play for Duke and NC. So I disagree. It’s about employing an effective scheme, recruiting into that scheme and developing the players.

Forcing Nance into the 5 was dumb. Always was dumb. And at the expense of playing true 5.

What you are glancing over is that apologists will craft every excuse known to man to justify why failure is not the fault of savior while dumping all praise on same savior for success.

If CCC owns the two successful years, then he owns all the unsuccessful ones too. NU admissions and reputation does NOT change yearly. Only the players that CCC recruits change. Sometimes the coaches change.

Last year we brought every player that ultimately started and lost two guys that played for NC and Duke. What changed? Lowery was the main change. Don’t want to credit him - fine, pin all the preceding years to CCC too!

Last response. You are confusing concepts and don't really bother reading my responses. I credited Lowery for making our defense much more aggressive and effective. I simply pointed out that his impact was nothing compared to a defensive coordinator in football. It was a silly comparison. I was also making the point that having a good offense in basketball is largely about the players and not the schemes. Collins didn't recruit enough good players. And he didn't develop some of the decent players he recruited. That's on him. But the notion that he needs some offensive guru is also silly.

We did have some highly rated players. Not nearly as many as the top schools in the conference but we had a few. Most of them did not pan out because they were one dimensional (Kopp and Falzon) or didn't develop (Benson and Beran). As I said, I question Collins' ability to develop players and to recruit stars.

In the 2015, 2016 and 2017 recruiting classes, Collins recruited Pardon, Ash, Falzon, Gaines, Rap, Benson and I. Brown. Of those players, only one of them was a good offensive player (Pardon). Falzon was a good shooter but got hurt and never really recovered. Rap was hurt the two years he was here. Nobody was going to make that group of players into a solid team.

You want to what changed from from the 2021-22 season to the 2022-2023 season other than Lowery? Buie somehow went from being awful at finishing around the basket to being really good and Audige was healthy and became a great defender who was also able to contribute offensively in some big moments. And, most importantly, Buie and Audige were clutch in close games. We won more than our share of close games because our very experienced backcourt made good decisions and clutch plays. That's the difference between going 12 and 8 and 8 and 12.

The year before we literally lost almost every close game. We we were in a bunch of games in the last few minutes against really good teams, which tells me that Collins schemes were just fine. We just didn't have a go-to guy. Nance had a really good year offensively playing the 5 (a much, much better season than he did at the 4 for NC). He is just not a clutch player and can't create his own shot. All that aside, though, if we had just hit our free throws at the end of games in Nance's last season, we would have had a good chance to go the tournament.

 

[GatoLouco]

Rewatch the Wisconsin game from 2014 and witness the undeniable proof that Collins is truly a coach with a strong focus on defense.

I don't doubt that. And I did not mean to imply I think or ever thought CC's problems as a coach were on the defensive end. I am repeating myself, but I do believe he has always been able to make guys play hard for him. And that's 1/2 the battle on defense.

But defense is not just that. Lowery just showed that. I find it a bit perplexing hearing players talk about Lowery coaching where they should be relative to the ball and telling them if they are disciplined with it, the ball will come to them. This is stuff they should know since middle school. And, yet, they don't. Not at NU, not at many other places.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

After the O and D rankings throughout the CCC period, sure. I’ll be using those to bolster the earlier argument.

I picked up a new follower. Apparently Lou enjoys my posts! Does he follow any of you?

Wtf are you even talking about? What time is it there in Thailand?

Why don’t you read the posts in this thread instead of bitching about CCC like he stole your girlfriend? Some well thought out responses from The kid, Gato, PWB, and Clairification that recognize both strengths and weaknesses of CCC over recent years.

Can’t wait for another season of your drivel when you expect us to finish 2nd in the B1G again because of our great talent and defensively wizard 🧙‍♂️ on the sidelines.

 

[clarificationcat]

I don't doubt that. And I did not mean to imply I think or ever thought CC's problems as a coach were on the defensive end. I am repeating myself, but I do believe he has always been able to make guys play hard for him. And that's 1/2 the battle on defense.

But defense is not just that. Lowery just showed that. I find it a bit perplexing hearing players talk about Lowery coaching where they should be relative to the ball and telling them if they are disciplined with it, the ball will come to them. This is stuff they should know since middle school. And, yet, they don't. Not at NU, not at many other places.

We finished 41st in the country in defensive efficiency in the first tournament season (40 plus places ahead of Kansas State). In the prior year, we finished 91st and KSU finished 77th. I guess some folks will credit Baldwin for the success those years.

I do think the right mix of assistants is critical. I think the post-tournament hangover and Donlon were a bad combination for Collins. I think he’s been humbled a bit and landed on a good group of coaches.

 

[GatoLouco]

We finished 41st in the country in defensive efficiency in the first tournament season (40 plus places ahead of Kansas State). In the prior year, we finished 91st and KSU finished 77th. I guess some folks will credit Baldwin for the success those years.

I do think the right mix of assistants is critical. I think the post-tournament hangover and Donlon were a bad combination for Collins. I think he’s been humbled a bit and landed on a good group of coaches.

41st could be argued to be par for the course, or worse, for a team ranked #8 (puts us somewhere at #29 to #32 overall) in that tournament.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I don't doubt that. And I did not mean to imply I think or ever thought CC's problems as a coach were on the defensive end. I am repeating myself, but I do believe he has always been able to make guys play hard for him. And that's 1/2 the battle on defense.

But defense is not just that. Lowery just showed that. I find it a bit perplexing hearing players talk about Lowery coaching where they should be relative to the ball and telling them if they are disciplined with it, the ball will come to them. This is stuff they should know since middle school. And, yet, they don't. Not at NU, not at many other places.

The responsibility of determining the strategy and focus of the team, cultivating a team culture, motivating the players, building the team, and managing player rotations typically falls upon the head coach. Assistant coaches, on the other hand, are usually in charge of providing individualized coaching and guidance to the players in order to develop their fundamental skills. The defensive wizard 🧙‍♂️is particularly exceptional at teaching the fundamental aspects of defense, such as proper positioning and active hands. These elements make up a significant portion of playing fundamental defense. The players constantly hear the defensive wizard 🧙‍♂️emphasizing the importance of being in the right place at the right time, and they witness the bright orange fruit that proper positioning bears. Collins deserves recognition for prioritizing players who excel in defense over those who lack defensive skills in his rotations. Additionally, he should be commended for securing the services of the defensive wizard🧙‍♂️. All these factors serve as evidence that defensive excellence is a key focus in teams led by Collins.

 

[clarificationcat]

41st could be argued to be par for the course, or worse, for a team ranked #8 (puts us somewhere at #29 to #32 overall) in that tournament.

41st could be argued to be par for the course, or worse, for a team ranked #8 (puts us somewhere at #29 to #32 overall) in that tournament.

It doesn’t really work like that since I don’t think it is adjusted for strength of schedule. We finished 4th in the conference and, as I said, much higher than KSU. In 2012-2013, KSU finished 1st in the Big 12, and they finished 84th, if that helps illustrate the point. We had a few very good defensive teams pre-Lowery. Under Lowery, I doubt KSU finished higher than 41st more than a couple of seasons, if that.