Athlon - Anonymous coaches on NU

[phatcat]

One of the big problems FItz had was Anderson never delivered on the promise of putting a top OL on the field.

Probably as big a problem as bad OCs but the boring predictable, Iowa power football schemes made it worse.

Anderson was huge disappointment for me. All hat, no cattle. I suppose he gets some credit for Slater, I think not so much for Skoronski, who was a semi-finished product when he arrived. Anyway, I'd prefer zero first round picks vs more solid units from left to right.

 

[hdhntr1]

Probably as big a problem as bad OCs but the boring predictable, Iowa power football schemes made it worse.

Anderson was huge disappointment for me. All hat, no cattle. I suppose he gets some credit for Slater, I think not so much for Skoronski, who was a semi-finished product when he arrived. Anyway, I'd prefer zero first round picks vs more solid units from left to right.

Hard to give even him that much credit for Slater (at least as far as his playing for us)as he was recruited by others, started from day one and got Frosh and Soph honors, only played for one year for Anderson when we had bad OL. Seems like Anderson's biggest impact was in preparing Slater for the draft when not playing for us his last year. Anderson did, at least, help to recruit Skoronski and coach him through his playing career, but even with a high first round pick the OL was not great. And hard to get too creative when your QB is running for his life every time he drops back
.

 

[hdhntr1]

The entire offensive philosophy was stuck in 1995 for years, making margin for error razor thin and making us rely on unreliable and unsustainable turnovers to win games. It’s one reason why we lost to lesser teams or won games so much closer than they should have been. A couple bad turnovers from our bad offense put us in a terrible spot.

We aren’t getting loaded up with 5 star skill players but who wants to be a WR who never gets the ball? What QB wants to hand the ball off 30 times a game and throw slants on third down?

Even Saban — with all of Alabama’s athletes and resources — realized that you couldn’t do the “ground and pound with a good defense” thing and win. And that was with a good offense! They decided to try to throw the ball a lot and lo and behold started winning a lot. You don’t have to throw to score but it’s a philosophy thing.

The ball control offense just doesn’t work anymore and I’m excited to see a modern offense come in.

First you have to remember that Alabama is in the South and not Midwest so they don't have to deal with the extremes of weather in the Midwest. Second, you realize that SD State under Lujan and with their stud QB that we wanted still ran over 60% of the time and was #10 in the country in running the ball (vs 115 passing even with a solid QB and descent OL). Heck our passing stats were similar to them but we were way behind them in running the ball. We passed more and ran less. Which means they were still basically ball control. And last I looked, MICH did pretty well last year with a sound D and ball control O. Wasn't it against PSU that they ran 31 straight times?

Have to wait and see what we actually get. While there might be more innovative runs and other wrinkles, I don't see a whole lot else changing as much as you do

 

[hdhntr1]

Probably as big a problem as bad OCs but the boring predictable, Iowa power football schemes made it worse.

Anderson was huge disappointment for me. All hat, no cattle. I suppose he gets some credit for Slater, I think not so much for Skoronski, who was a semi-finished product when he arrived. Anyway, I'd prefer zero first round picks vs more solid units from left to right.

Part and parcel with the OC issues, He seemed to be able to recruit and bring in top targets. If he had been even close to delivering on the promise, our O would have been more dynamic and a strength and people would likely not complain about Ball Control cause it would actually you know, controlled the ball and added a few more scores. And with the Fitz firing, NIL and departures of his best players, we are basically starting from scratch so it will be interesting to see what happens

 

[hdhntr1]

The entire offensive philosophy was stuck in 1995 for years, making margin for error razor thin and making us rely on unreliable and unsustainable turnovers to win games. It’s one reason why we lost to lesser teams or won games so much closer than they should have been. A couple bad turnovers from our bad offense put us in a terrible spot.

We aren’t getting loaded up with 5 star skill players but who wants to be a WR who never gets the ball? What QB wants to hand the ball off 30 times a game and throw slants on third down?

Even Saban — with all of Alabama’s athletes and resources — realized that you couldn’t do the “ground and pound with a good defense” thing and win. And that was with a good offense! They decided to try to throw the ball a lot and lo and behold started winning a lot. You don’t have to throw to score but it’s a philosophy thing.

The ball control offense just doesn’t work anymore and I’m excited to see a modern offense come in.

First you have to remember that Alabama is in the South and not Midwest so they don't have to deal with the extremes of weather in the Midwest. Second, you realize that SD State under Lujan and with their stud QB that we wanted still ran over 60% of the time (with a lot less sacks counting against) and was #10 in the country in running the ball (vs 115 passing even with a solid QB and descent OL). Heck our passing stats were similar to them but we were way behind them in running the ball. We passed more and ran less. Which means they were still basically ball control. Third, OL development under Anderson left something to be desired and had a big impact on what that BC offense you complain about could deliver. And last I looked, MICH did pretty well last year with a sound D and ball control O. Wasn't it against PSU that they ran 31 straight times?

Have to wait and see what we actually get. While there might be more innovative runs and other wrinkles, I don't see a whole lot else changing as much as you do

 

[Gatabowl]

First you have to remember that Alabama is in the South and not Midwest so they don't have to deal with the extremes of weather in the Midwest. Second, you realize that SD State under Lujan and with their stud QB that we wanted still ran over 60% of the time and was #10 in the country in running the ball (vs 115 passing even with a solid QB and descent OL). Heck our passing stats were similar to them but we were way behind them in running the ball. We passed more and ran less. Which means they were still basically ball control. And last I looked, MICH did pretty well last year with a sound D and ball control O. Wasn't it against PSU that they ran 31 straight times?

Have to wait and see what we actually get. While there might be more innovative runs and other wrinkles, I don't see a whole lot else changing as much as you do

As I said, running the ball is ok. We ran the ball and didn’t score lol.

 

[Jaguar 88]

I was with you till you went to took the money and ran. He had last years team set up for success. He had righted the disaster of JON. (Jake was never the problem JON was)

That is very speculative at best about him setting the team up for success. I give Braun the credit for 2023, but we really won't know the truth will we? My thing is how can a program go from best to worst in back to back seasons, then flat line for two consecutive seasons. It is not the hallmark of a stable program, which ultimately reflects on the HC. Fitz got either too comfortable or wanted to make sure he would not get overshadowed by a really good coordinator with his mediocre hires. My comments in the previous post about Fleck turning two programs around while Fitz was gifted the NU HC job because of the Walker tragedy might play into that. As a HC that wants to win, you get not only the best coordinators around, but also the best assistants. Look at my Uncles's coaching tree, compared to Fitzgerald's. Fitz talked about winning the B1G and contending for natty's, so why would you keep a boring offensive system in place and then hire mediocrities for your staff? He thought he had it made and got lazy.

 

[CMcCat]

That is very speculative at best about him setting the team up for success. I give Braun the credit for 2023, but we really won't know the truth will we? My thing is how can a program go from best to worst in back to back seasons, then flat line for two consecutive seasons. It is not the hallmark of a stable program, which ultimately reflects on the HC. Fitz got either too comfortable or wanted to make sure he would not get overshadowed by a really good coordinator with his mediocre hires. My comments in the previous post about Fleck turning two programs around while Fitz was gifted the NU HC job because of the Walker tragedy might play into that. As a HC that wants to win, you get not only the best coordinators around, but also the best assistants. Look at my Uncles's coaching tree, compared to Fitzgerald's. Fitz talked about winning the B1G and contending for natty's, so why would you keep a boring offensive system in place and then hire mediocrities for your staff? He thought he had it made and got lazy.

Fitz lived and died with his coordinators. The OCs lived and died with their QBs.

We “flat lined” because our QBs failed. Hunter was a surprising flop. Look at Fitz’s entire tenure and the defenses were generally competent to excellent and the overall team results were a function of QB play.

Fitz didn’t get lazy or mail it in. The QBs didn’t pan out and JON didn’t work out.

 

[Just Gary]

Fitz lived and died with his coordinators. The OCs lived and died with their QBs.

We “flat lined” because our QBs failed. Hunter was a surprising flop. Look at Fitz’s entire tenure and the defenses were generally competent to excellent and the overall team results were a function of QB play.

Fitz didn’t get lazy or mail it in. The QBs didn’t pan out and JON didn’t work out.

Our inability to recruit good quarterbacks after Thorson was our downfall. We tried to rely on transfers, the good ones, Ramsey and Bryant, led to bowl games. The bad ones, Hunter and Hilinski, led to losing seasons. But it was the inability to recruit and develop solid quarterbacks after 2014 that caused the issue. The buck stops at the head coach but it passed through the offensive coordinators and the recruiting staff.

 

[CMcCat]

Our inability to recruit good quarterbacks after Thorson was our downfall. We tried to rely on transfers, the good ones, Ramsey and Bryant, led to bowl games. The bad ones, Hunter and Hilinski, led to losing seasons. But it was the inability to recruit and develop solid quarterbacks after 2014 that caused the issue. The buck stops at the head coach but it passed through the offensive coordinators and the recruiting staff.

In the NIL era, it would seem you either have to develop QBs and hope they are loyal (like Boo) or you have to just pay more than others and have a revolving door of graduate students. Can you do both? It seems to me you cannot.

 

[Katatonic]

I bet Fitz will come back a far far better HC, if given a chance. Head shrunk from the humility, opportunity to look back at all his choices along the way - I bet he would figure out his over the top loyalty and stubbornness led to his downfall more than trusting his athletes. He probably won’t become a fun guy at the presser and not any better or worse at actual coaching - but the HC qualities I can see improving dramatically.

Wouldn't go that far.

Maybe a bit better in certain respects (like Franklin, would still be a below average game manager), but wouldn't go that far as Fitz has the tendency to repeat the same mistakes and to take way too long in making adjustments (particularly on O).

All HCs live and die with the coordinators that they have. McCall was pretty good till he wasn't. I can remember the thought of the danger of losing him. And remember his job was to have a complementary O for a D minded team. But he had some misteps in recruiting QBs at the end and it finally caught up with him. Thought he had the guy (next 4 year starter) out of Colorado and then that fell apart and that was the beginning of the end for him.

McC was OK with the 2 most polished passers the program had coming out of HS in Bacher and Siemian (also when the O-line was actually almost decent at times as opposed to complete suckage).

Problem was that McC's scheme was unsuitable for CFB which often has players with little experience.

Fitz was fortunate to be a head coach during the most “equitable” era in college football history. He entered the scene after the era of unlimited scholarships that enabled the dominant programs to stockpile talent and use it to win games, keeping lesser programs weak. He left before NIL essentially creates the old system with cash rather than scholarships.

NU didn’t win much in the unlimited scholarship era and won’t win much in the NIL era. That is why it has torn down its football stadium and is constructing a concert venue.

Fitz was a huge beneficiary of coaching in the B1GW for much of his career.

Not only was the W already a good bit weaker than the B1GE, for much of its existence, Nebby was a cluster-$#@ (the Pumpkinheads were even worse), Wisky lost its way and Iowa had Kirk Ferentz (if it weren't for the Chickenhawks complete ineptitude on O, the Cats would have been the laughingstock of P5 O).

 

[Katatonic]

Also, Bajakian was hamstrung by Fitzgerald's philosophy. I don't think thats really debatable either.

Was surprised (in hindsight, shouldn't have been) to see the ball handed off deep in the backfield on 3rd/4th and 1 under Bajakian with the same, ugly results.

Fitz was always a guy that believed you won with D and a complimentary O. And it worked here for a long time. (after he was done as a player) The Jake hire made total sense as he was a more updated McCall and with a D it again proved that it could win. The main problem he had was how bad we had done in recruiting QBs prior to his arrival that limited what he could do and an OL that had issues protecting the QB (over his tenure we saw a lot of QB injuries). And unfortunately he could not get his A list guy while he was here and what he was able to get were more projects.

Fitz may have believed in complementary football, but except for a few years, was unable to execute it due to his inability to field an average, much less a good O-line.

The O-line is the one position group which affects the play of every other position.

It was also a big part in the later failures of being able to recruit at the QB position, which also led to failures recruiting at WR.

Harbaugh, otoh, showed that can still win with complementary football (need both a dominant O-line and D) even tho it's tougher to do these days.

Also, playing complementary football doesn't mean one can't have motion, disguises, etc to put your O players in a better position to succeed.

Look at how the Eagles O fell apart last season even with a plethora of wrapons and arguably the best O-line in the NFL.

The difference was the change in OC and going to a predictable, plain Jane scheme (which we are all too familiar with).

 

[CMcCat]

Fitz was a huge beneficiary of coaching in the B1GW for much of his career.

Not only was the W already a good bit weaker than the B1GE, for much of its existence, Nebby was a cluster-$#@ (the Pumpkinheads were even worse), Wisky lost its way and Iowa had Kirk Ferentz (if it weren't for the Chickenhawks complete ineptitude on O, the Cats would have been the laughingstock of P5 O).

Though most of his career was prior to the East/West alignment, you are correct that NU benefited greatly from it and we won’t see the likes of it again.

 

[Katatonic]

^ Ok, for when the program achieved its greatest success under Fitz.

While there will be expectations on Braun, should take into account the new format as well as the new additions (not to mention Wisky and Nebby looking to be on the upswing).

 

[hdhntr1]

Wouldn't go that far.

Maybe a bit better in certain respects (like Franklin, would still be a below average game manager), but wouldn't go that far as Fitz has the tendency to repeat the same mistakes and to take way too long in making adjustments (particularly on O).




McC was OK with the 2 most polished passers the program had coming out of HS in Bacher and Siemian (also when the O-line was actually almost decent at times as opposed to complete suckage).

Problem was that McC's scheme was unsuitable for CFB which often has players with little experience.






Fitz was a huge beneficiary of coaching in the B1GW for much of his career.

Not only was the W already a good bit weaker than the B1GE, for much of its existence, Nebby was a cluster-$#@ (the Pumpkinheads were even worse), Wisky lost its way and Iowa had Kirk Ferentz (if it weren't for the Chickenhawks complete ineptitude on O, the Cats would have been the laughingstock of P5 O).

Sorry but for much of his time here McCall was pretty successful as an OC. As far as Bacher, he had him for one year and that year he threw for about 2400 yds. And Siemien never threw for more than about 2200 yds. The following year after he left,. Kafka threw for over 3400 yds and close to 500 attempts He was very good at working with what he had including and passing attempts were usually between 30-40 per game and often close to 50-50 run pass. When he had good runners he used them and running QBs, Heck we won 10 games with Thorson as a RS Frosh throwing for 1500 yards and also with him throwing for about 3200 yds a couple times. For most of his time here his Os were close to 400 yds/game.

His big problem occurred at the end when our QB recruiting took a hit for several years and guys did not work out and we also had problems with consistency at the RB position not having the solid run game we usually had (OL?) and had critical injuries at the position (Larkin and Bowser are examples) But till then he had done a pretty good job creating a successful O under a lot of different scenarios. He even put together one of the most successful two QB systems most of us have ever seen

 

[hdhntr1]

Was surprised (in hindsight, shouldn't have been) to see the ball handed off deep in the backfield on 3rd/4th and 1 under Bajakian with the same, ugly results.





Fitz may have believed in complementary football, but except for a few years, was unable to execute it due to his inability to field an average, much less a good O-line.

The O-line is the one position group which affects the play of every other position.

It was also a big part in the later failures of being able to recruit at the QB position, which also led to failures recruiting at WR.

Harbaugh, otoh, showed that can still win with complementary football (need both a dominant O-line and D) even tho it's tougher to do these days.

Also, playing complementary football doesn't mean one can't have motion, disguises, etc to put your O players in a better position to succeed.

Look at how the Eagles O fell apart last season even with a plethora of wrapons and arguably the best O-line in the NFL.

The difference was the change in OC and going to a predictable, plain Jane scheme (which we are all too familiar with).

Fitz did not coach the OL. A lot of us were enamored with Anderson's recruiting chops but sadly we really never saw it on the field

 

[hdhntr1]

That is very speculative at best about him setting the team up for success. I give Braun the credit for 2023, but we really won't know the truth will we? My thing is how can a program go from best to worst in back to back seasons, then flat line for two consecutive seasons. It is not the hallmark of a stable program, which ultimately reflects on the HC. Fitz got either too comfortable or wanted to make sure he would not get overshadowed by a really good coordinator with his mediocre hires. My comments in the previous post about Fleck turning two programs around while Fitz was gifted the NU HC job because of the Walker tragedy might play into that. As a HC that wants to win, you get not only the best coordinators around, but also the best assistants. Look at my Uncles's coaching tree, compared to Fitzgerald's. Fitz talked about winning the B1G and contending for natty's, so why would you keep a boring offensive system in place and then hire mediocrities for your staff? He thought he had it made and got lazy.

No, it is not. Fitz changed the biggest problem we had by replacing JON with Braun and bringing back a solid D. Brought in new DL coach. New WR coach. And another huge upgrade was they brought in a serviceable experienced QB. All of which got us to where we needed to go. And that does not even include what we lost through the portal at the last minute due to his firing that could have helped. My guess we would have won at least another game and perhaps 2 with Fitz at the helm as without the turmoil we had because of his firing, we would have been in a much better position against Rutgers. Plus perhaps better prepared for Wrigley against IA.

This is not to denigrate Braun or anything he did and was able to accomplish. He did well holding the team together under a very difficult situation. But the reality is that the team was set up to win. Braun's accomplishment was that he kept them from falling apart which would have been easy to see happening under the circumstances, But the reality is that without the Fitz firing, we would not even have had those circumstances.

 

[Catreporter]

Though most of his career was prior to the East/West alignment, you are correct that NU benefited greatly from it and we won’t see the likes of it again.

Take a peek at the 2025 schedule to see the new world we will be living in. Fitz did a great job for the time, but this is a whole different ballgame. Quite a challenge for any coach but especially for old school thinkers. Fitz brought in some impressive new hires so maybe he would have adapted to all the changes. The question is: will the school adapt by easing up some of its academic requirements, especially surrounding transfers?

 

[CMcCat]

Take a peek at the 2025 schedule to see the new world we will be living in. Fitz did a great job for the time, but this is a whole different ballgame. Quite a challenge for any coach but especially for old school thinkers. Fitz brought in some impressive new hires so maybe he would have adapted to all the changes. The question is: will the school adapt by easing up some of its academic requirements, especially surrounding transfers?

That will be telling. NU is at the crossroads. I don’t think they can play their former hand in the NIL era and last as a semi-pro conference member, let alone be competitive as one.

 

[Katatonic]

Fitz did not coach the OL. A lot of us were enamored with Anderson's recruiting chops but sadly we really never saw it on the field

Fitz may not have coached the O-line, but he was wholly responsible for hiring the persons who did end up coaching the O-line.

He was also ultimately responsible for the philosophy on O, and sticking to a "ball control" scheme (and a dull, unimaginative one at that) without the requisite piece (a good O-line) was madness.

Fitz did coach special teams which was pretty much awful during his tenure - got an excuse for that?

 

[EvanstonCat]

Sorry but for much of his time here McCall was pretty successful as an OC. As far as Bacher, he had him for one year and that year he threw for about 2400 yds. And Siemien never threw for more than about 2200 yds. The following year after he left,. Kafka threw for over 3400 yds and close to 500 attempts He was very good at working with what he had including and passing attempts were usually between 30-40 per game and often close to 50-50 run pass. When he had good runners he used them and running QBs, Heck we won 10 games with Thorson as a RS Frosh throwing for 1500 yards and also with him throwing for about 3200 yds a couple times. For most of his time here his Os were close to 400 yds/game.

His big problem occurred at the end when our QB recruiting took a hit for several years and guys did not work out and we also had problems with consistency at the RB position not having the solid run game we usually had (OL?) and had critical injuries at the position (Larkin and Bowser are examples) But till then he had done a pretty good job creating a successful O under a lot of different scenarios. He even put together one of the most successful two QB systems most of us have ever seen

Bacher regressed under McCall. The year before McCall took over under Garrick effing McGee, Bacher threw for 3,656 yards. And Siemian’s pedestrian production (and usage or lack thereof in deference to a WR under center) relative to his career in the League speaks to McCall’s genius as an OC. Was he better than Bajakian? Yeah, but that’s not much of a bar.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Sorry but for much of his time here McCall was pretty successful as an OC. As far as Bacher, he had him for one year and that year he threw for about 2400 yds. And Siemien never threw for more than about 2200 yds. The following year after he left,. Kafka threw for over 3400 yds and close to 500 attempts He was very good at working with what he had including and passing attempts were usually between 30-40 per game and often close to 50-50 run pass. When he had good runners he used them and running QBs, Heck we won 10 games with Thorson as a RS Frosh throwing for 1500 yards and also with him throwing for about 3200 yds a couple times. For most of his time here his Os were close to 400 yds/game.

His big problem occurred at the end when our QB recruiting took a hit for several years and guys did not work out and we also had problems with consistency at the RB position not having the solid run game we usually had (OL?) and had critical injuries at the position (Larkin and Bowser are examples) But till then he had done a pretty good job creating a successful O under a lot of different scenarios. He even put together one of the most successful two QB systems most of us have ever seen

McCall was a big reason that QB recruiting dried up.

 

[hdhntr1]

Bacher regressed under McCall. The year before McCall took over under Garrick effing McGee, Bacher threw for 3,656 yards. And Siemian’s pedestrian production (and usage or lack thereof in deference to a WR under center) relative to his career in the League speaks to McCall’s genius as an OC. Was he better than Bajakian? Yeah, but that’s not much of a bar.

He did not regress. We just did not need him to throw as much. % completions and yards per attempt (about 1 yd different)were close to the same, but we just used a more balanced run pass ratio. In 2007 we threw a lot out of necessity 2007 as our D gave up over 410 yds per game and we gave up a lot of points. (over 4.2 TDs per game). We were behind a lot giving up more than a TD more per game than we scored. As a result, we were throwing almost 60% of the time and Bacher threw 19 INTs. In 2008, the D was better in yards given up and in scores given up dropping to 2.2 TDs per game. As a result we had to take fewer chances and we dropped to 50-50 run pass. And our QBs were also more effective bring the ball down and running the ball gaining over 500 yds rushing. (Don't forget that Kafka also playeda lot more in 2008 and threw for 330 yds and also ran for over 320 as well )

And you are forgetting the most important stat. Wins. In 2007 we were 6-6 and 3-5 in BIG. In 2008, that improved to 9-4 and 5-3 in the BIG.

 

[hdhntr1]

McCall was a big reason that QB recruiting dried up.

Never said that he wasn't responsible and that the QB recruiting in the end was his downfall. Just said that for the majority of his 12 years here that the overall O was better than people remember and generally in the 400 ypg range. It helped us win a lot of games and that he was able to do it in a variety of ways

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Never said that he wasn't responsible and that the QB recruiting in the end was his downfall. Just said that for the majority of his 13 years here that the overall O was better than people remember and generally in the 400 ypg range. It helped us win a lot of games and that he was able to do it in a variety of ways

And then he overstayed his welcome by at least 2-3 years.

 

[CappyNU]

Never said that he wasn't responsible and that the QB recruiting in the end was his downfall. Just said that for the majority of his 13 years here that the overall O was better than people remember and generally in the 400 ypg range. It helped us win a lot of games and that he was able to do it in a variety of ways

Except games aren't won and lost on ypg. In his 12 seasons he got "near" 400 ypg 7 of 12 times - 2009-2013 and 2016-17.

2009-2013 were pre-B1G West; the yards/play and scoring ranks in those seasons were bottom half of the conference in 2009, 2010 and 2013. 2011 had a 4th-ranked ypp and 5th-ranked scoring, while 2012 (prime Colter/Siemian/Mark) had bottom half ypp and was the only season where we scored >30ppg, which was also the only time we finished top-3 in conference under McCall.

2016-17 were the prime Thorson/Jackson years, and even then in 2016 we were bottom half in ypp and scoring, while 2017 had us 6th in ypp and 4th in scoring at 29ppg. Perhaps if Thorson doesn't blow his ACL in 2017, 2018 also reaches these heights as well, but that's not what happened.

Outside of those two years in the B1G West, McCall's other 4 offenses (2014-15, 2018-19) finished in the bottom 25% in ypp and scoring each year. I also doubt it's a coincidence that Fitz deciding to move away from the spread to a more "traditional" offense when the new divisions were created resulted in this offensive futility.

 

[hdhntr1]

And then he overstayed his welcome by at least 2-3 years.

We did get to the BIG Championship Game with an 8-1 BIG record and won a bowl game his next to last year with a QB coming back from injury. (Remember Larkin had the career ending injury) And we had a 10 win season (with over 400 ypg the year before. )

But if you mean to avoid 2019 and the drop off do to poor QB recruiting... (you could probably add RB recruiting as well) Problem isl it did not get much better after he left

 

[gocatsgo2003]

We did get to the BIG Championship Game with an 8-1 BIG record and won a bowl game his next to last year with a QB coming back from injury. (Remember Larkin had the career ending injury) And we had a 10 win season (with over 400 ypg the year before. )

But if you mean to avoid 2019 and the drop off do to poor QB recruiting... (you could probably add RB recruiting as well) Problem isl it did not get much better after he left

Because Payton Ramsey was the perfect fit at the perfect time. Basically covered off a lot of our offensive issues that had been persistent for a while (including toward the end of Thorson’s NU tenure).

 

[Jaguar 88]

Fitz lived and died with his coordinators. The OCs lived and died with their QBs.

We “flat lined” because our QBs failed. Hunter was a surprising flop. Look at Fitz’s entire tenure and the defenses were generally competent to excellent and the overall team results were a function of QB play.

Fitz didn’t get lazy or mail it in. The QBs didn’t pan out and JON didn’t work out.

Yeah he mostly died with his coordinators and assistants, but who did he hire? Mostly mediocre coaches minus Hankwitz and I will even give McCall some love. Fitz wanted ball control and he got it, but like you inferred, after Clayton graduated, we have had garbage quarterbacks or ones that were just serviceable. We are not going to win via the portal on a consistent basis, nor are we going to recruit another Thorson if we keep using the portal. Braun said he wanted to be a developmental program, but gets a portal guy. I still think Coach Walker had the right idea with the offense. It would generate more interest in terms of getting quality qbs. I am not sure why we are attracted to second hand quarterbacks that couldn't cut the mustard elsewhere. Sell the program. I am sure Braun will, but just wish we could dump the reliance on the portal for a starting qb.

 

[hdhntr1]

Except games aren't won and lost on ypg. In his 12 seasons he got "near" 400 ypg 7 of 12 times - 2009-2013 and 2016-17.

2009-2013 were pre-B1G West; the yards/play and scoring ranks in those seasons were bottom half of the conference in 2009, 2010 and 2013. 2011 had a 4th-ranked ypp and 5th-ranked scoring, while 2012 (prime Colter/Siemian/Mark) had bottom half ypp and was the only season where we scored >30ppg, which was also the only time we finished top-3 in conference under McCall.

2016-17 were the prime Thorson/Jackson years, and even then in 2016 we were bottom half in ypp and scoring, while 2017 had us 6th in ypp and 4th in scoring at 29ppg. Perhaps if Thorson doesn't blow his ACL in 2017, 2018 also reaches these heights as well, but that's not what happened.

Outside of those two years in the B1G West, McCall's other 4 offenses (2014-15, 2018-19) finished in the bottom 25% in ypp and scoring each year. I also doubt it's a coincidence that Fitz deciding to move away from the spread to a more "traditional" offense when the new divisions were created resulted in this offensive futility.

You are right that pure stats is not the whole story. That said, the one stat that matters most is Wins and losses and during McCall's tenure we won at least 6 games (500 or better record in regular season) 9 times in his 12 seasons . This included Fitz's 3 10 win season's and the first trip to the BIG Championship game. His job was to put together and offense that worked with the rest of the team enabled the team to win given what else we had and that is what he did.. And he did it in a variety of ways. That said, he was done in by recruiting especially QBs but to a lesser extent RBs. (Injuries had a lot to do with it as well) In the end it was time to move on from him but many here underestimate the value of his contributions

 

[hdhntr1]

Because Payton Ramsey was the perfect fit at the perfect time. Basically covered off a lot of our offensive issues that had been persistent for a while (including toward the end of Thorson’s NU tenure).

Ramsey was 2020 and played under Jake so not sure what you are trying to say

 

[Katatonic]

Sorry but for much of his time here McCall was pretty successful as an OC. As far as Bacher, he had him for one year and that year he threw for about 2400 yds. And Siemien never threw for more than about 2200 yds. The following year after he left,. Kafka threw for over 3400 yds and close to 500 attempts He was very good at working with what he had including and passing attempts were usually between 30-40 per game and often close to 50-50 run pass. When he had good runners he used them and running QBs, Heck we won 10 games with Thorson as a RS Frosh throwing for 1500 yards and also with him throwing for about 3200 yds a couple times. For most of his time here his Os were close to 400 yds/game.

His big problem occurred at the end when our QB recruiting took a hit for several years and guys did not work out and we also had problems with consistency at the RB position not having the solid run game we usually had (OL?) and had critical injuries at the position (Larkin and Bowser are examples) But till then he had done a pretty good job creating a successful O under a lot of different scenarios. He even put together one of the most successful two QB systems most of us have ever seen

Didn't say that that McC didn't have his moments of success, but a lot of that was due to the individual talents of the QBs (Persa turning something out of nothing was all on him) more so than McC's playcalling, much less scheme - which was an albatross.

Don't care so much about Siemian's nos as his basically 2 years of starting were plagued by injuries.

For example, heading into the 2014 season, the Cats lost their #1 WR and one of their best O-lineman to season ending injury and their starting RB/electric return guy to transfer (the season before, Mark was injured for a large part as well) and things got steadily worse from there (including having the new #1 receiver playing with a broken hand, hence all the drops).

But the Cats went on to beat Wisky, Penn State and the Domers all in one season and should have beaten UM for the rare quad-fecta but for the incompetence of McC and Fitz.

Without Siemian, the Cats wouldn't have beaten those teams and we all saw how they fared against the Pumpkinheads after Siemian's injury.

Speaking of which, it took half a season watching McC and Fitz hand the ball off deep in the backfield on 3rd/4th and 1 (only to see them repeatedly fail to convert) before they finally started to make things easier by using the QB sneak.

But against that sneak attempt against Purdue when Siemian got injured, anyone could see that it was a bad idea as the Boilers had really loaded up the box.

But bad decisions and slow/too late adjustments were the hallmark of the McC/Fitz O.

Just as bad as the M00N game was the loss to Army.

Never watched an Army game that season until the Cats faced them, but still knew that their weakness on D was their secondary.

But what did the McC/Fitz "braintrust" decide?

That running the ball with Colter was the best way to attack their D (which practices against a running QB!).

And it took them 3 quarters of garbage (just like in the M00N game) before they decided to change course.

 

[Katatonic]

Won 10 games Thorson's 1st year starting because of the historically great D.

Thorson continued to be the beneficiary of the D, along with playing with 3 skill position players who made it to the NFL, along with a talented 4th who retired from football.

Speaking of which, what does it say when 2 out of the 3 NU receivers who made to the NFL ended up transferring?

But unlike Siemian, who never got to play with that level of talent (yeah, he got to play a bit with a frosh JJtBC, but Justin didn't start to get the bulk of the carries til towards the end of the season as he was still learning to pass protect), much less that level of D, never started a game where the Cats lost to a lower level program (even when he was playing on our end leg), whereas Thorson has a few.

Problem with McC/Fitz was more than (at times) the mind-boggling predictable playcalling (which both the Steelers and Eagles offenses fell victim to that last NFL season) or repeatedly doing the same failing thing over and over again or some completely bonkers game plan - it was having a scheme unsuited for college football.

As I've stated before, McC's Read & React scheme was complex for players to learn (albeit not necessarily complex for opposing D's to decipher, especially familiar foes).

This was particularly true for the QB position, which is why under McC, the Cats never had a young, inexperienced QB step in as a viable passer (closest to that was Siemian on a part-time basis),

When a starting QB graduated or went down to injury, the O would resort to being much dimensional with the QB relying much more on his legs than his arm (Brewfka experiment, Colter, young Persa, young Thorson).

But it wasn't just on the QB, he had to be on the same page with his teammates - hence, rarely seeing a young receiver contribute early on in their career.

The especially infuriating thing is that after experiencing this with Colby (remember when it took about half a season before the staff realized that they needed to simplify things as players in the secondary, which included 2 seasoned vets, kept getting confused?) McC, Fitz goes back to the stupid Read & React a 3rd time!

This is also why didn't have a serviceable backup (Siemian had to play on one leg for two stretches because there was no better option) all too often.

And it was easier for opposing D's to decipher the plays (always hated that long traveling outlet pass to the sideline for short gain that was ripe to be picked off) - remember when the Wisky D revealed that the Cats were tipping off what they were going to do (so much for self-scouting)?

 

[Just Gary]

Didn't say that that McC didn't have his moments of success, but a lot of that was due to the individual talents of the QBs (Persa turning something out of nothing was all on him) more so than McC's playcalling, much less scheme - which was an albatross.

Don't care so much about Siemian's nos as his basically 2 years of starting were plagued by injuries.

For example, heading into the 2014 season, the Cats lost their #1 WR and one of their best O-lineman to season ending injury and their starting RB/electric return guy to transfer (the season before, Mark was injured for a large part as well) and things got steadily worse from there (including having the new #1 receiver playing with a broken hand, hence all the drops).

But the Cats went on to beat Wisky, Penn State and the Domers all in one season and should have beaten UM for the rare quad-fecta but for the incompetence of McC and Fitz.

Without Siemian, the Cats wouldn't have beaten those teams and we all saw how they fared against the Pumpkinheads after Siemian's injury.

Speaking of which, it took half a season watching McC and Fitz hand the ball off deep in the backfield on 3rd/4th and 1 (only to see them repeatedly fail to convert) before they finally started to make things easier by using the QB sneak.

But against that sneak attempt against Purdue when Siemian got injured, anyone could see that it was a bad idea as the Boilers had really loaded up the box.

So you’re saying the wins were only produced by the players and the loses were all the fault of the coaches? I would give some credit to the coaches for the two ten win seasons. They did develop those players. We are handicapped by our admission policies and it is not easy getting players. Failure to find the right QB candidates led to an issue after Thorson. We were relying on Hunter to be the man and he turned out to be the deer in the headlights. I fault the coaches for not having a good plan B when it became obvious that Hunter was gun shy. But just like any team, you need a competent QB to win. Ramsey and Bryant were not 5-star studs but they knew what they were doing. Hopefully Braun and Lujan can get that out of Wright while developing the QBs that they recruited.

I think we are getting a bit carried away by trying to make the coaching sound like a complete failure. You need players and coaches to have competency to win 10 games twice. I agree that McCall lost his way as well as a bad job by the entire staff in recruiting but there were some good years in there.

 

[Katatonic]

You are right that pure stats is not the whole story. That said, the one stat that matters most is Wins and losses and during McCall's tenure we won at least 6 games (500 or better record in regular season) 9 times in his 12 seasons . This included Fitz's 3 10 win season's and the first trip to the BIG Championship game. His job was to put together and offense that worked with the rest of the team enabled the team to win given what else we had and that is what he did.. And he did it in a variety of ways. That said, he was done in by recruiting especially QBs but to a lesser extent RBs. (Injuries had a lot to do with it as well) In the end it was time to move on from him but many here underestimate the value of his contributions

The trips to the Championship games were primarily due to the D and playing in the B1GW.

Pair those historically great D's with an average to above average O and may have won the B1G, as well as the West a couple more times.

That's the difference Iowa fans have with your outlook.

They bemoan not having had a better O to go with their D, which prevented them from achieving more.

And the key difference between the Chickenhawks and the Cats is that despite all their ineptitude on O, they didn't keep losing to lower level teams, much less Dook during their losing streak.

That's the reason why the Cats continue to be not taken seriously.

 

[Just Gary]

The trips to the Championship games were primarily due to the D and playing in the B1GW.

Pair those historically great D's with an average to above average O and may have won the B1G, as well as the West a couple more times.

That's the difference Iowa fans have with your outlook.

They bemoan not having had a better O to go with their D, which prevented them from achieving more.

And the key difference between the Chickenhawks and the Cats is that despite all their ineptitude on O, they didn't keep losing to lower level teams, much less Dook during their losing streak.

That's the reason why the Cats continue to be not taken seriously.

Well, Iowa have had a pretty rough time trying to best Iowa State and they did lose games to Central Michigan, North Dakota State, and NIU during the Fitz era. Plus of course all those losses to us, which really got under their skin.

The grass is not always greener.

 

[WildcatWillie]

What follows is completely off topic, Just Gary, but perhaps this is as good a place to post these words as any.

You've always been a valued contributor to this board, but I gather in recent years you've gone through a really tough time health-wise. Evidently that's not over -- but I for one am so glad you're back on board and contributing here.

Whether I agree with all your posts is entirely unimportant, but that you're engaged and sharing thoughts about Cats sports is what's of real value. You're a welcome presence. Hang in there.

 

[CoralSpringsCat]

So you’re saying the wins were only produced by the players and the loses were all the fault of the coaches? I would give some credit to the coaches for the two ten win seasons. They did develop those players. We are handicapped by our admission policies and it is not easy getting players. Failure to find the right QB candidates led to an issue after Thorson. We were relying on Hunter to be the man and he turned out to be the deer in the headlights. I fault the coaches for not having a good plan B when it became obvious that Hunter was gun shy. But just like any team, you need a competent QB to win. Ramsey and Bryant were not 5-star studs but they knew what they were doing. Hopefully Braun and Lujan can get that out of Wright while developing the QBs that they recruited.

I think we are getting a bit carried away by trying to make the coaching sound like a complete failure. You need players and coaches to have competency to win 10 games twice. I agree that McCall lost his way as well as a bad job by the entire staff in recruiting but there were some good years in there.

TJ Green was the backup plan. McCall was a big fan (wanted him to start over HJ, but was overruled). The Green injury was a major loss for NU, one many did not realize at the time.

 

[Just Gary]

What follows is completely off topic, Just Gary, but perhaps this is as good a place to post these words as any.

You've always been a valued contributor to this board, but I gather in recent years you've gone through a really tough time health-wise. Evidently that's not over -- but I for one am so glad you're back on board and contributing here.

Whether I agree with all your posts is entirely unimportant, but that you're engaged and sharing thoughts about Cats sports is what's of real value. You're a welcome presence. Hang in there.

Thanks. Yes, I miss the tailgates and the bowl game get togethers we had. I have health problems that keep me from traveling long distances but thankfully none of them are immediately life threatening. It does change one’s perspective a bit so sometimes I’m happy to be alive and other times I’m frustrated in how things are. Anyway, I will get back to Evanston when the new stadium is done (at least that is the plan). In the meantime, I am grateful that Braun came along and renewed my interest. It felt stale the last two years of the Fitz era that were bad enough that I did not post. I’m seeing good things from Braun. I talked to someone who knew him before he came to Evanston and they only had good things to say. I don’t expect much this or next season but I have high hopes for 2026. I’m hoping people on this board will give him time but realistically expect the stone throwing to commence shortly after kickoff against Miami OH. Some things will never change.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

So you’re saying the wins were only produced by the players and the loses were all the fault of the coaches?

This is the crux of many of the arguments on the Wildcat Report boards.

If every team had the exact same roster, it would be pretty easy to know which coaches/programs were good and which coaches/programs were not so good. Wins and losses. Over time.

However, thats not how it works and therefore, evaluation becomes somewhat subjective. People will argue "its impossible to win at Northwestern because of admissions" and then when we do win, they stick to their premise, even though they have been proven wrong. A logical person would conclude "There must be some other effect that is offsetting that apparent disadvantage - or maybe that disadvantage isn't such a problem."

Not putting you in that camp. I loved your response that I quoted above.

I think Fitzgerald was a good head coach and a great representative of Northwestern. He was more dependent on his assistants than I realized.

Sorry to hear that your health has been a battle. Hang in there.