Sad for whom? The kid gets the education and the degree. That's the point of amateur athletics, right?
Big news: Vassar suing NU for antitrust
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Sad for whom? The kid gets the education and the degree. That's the point of amateur athletics, right?
Not quite true. These scholarships come with quite a few stipulations - many are transgressed regularly but not enforced. If all are right about JV having a 'me first' attitude, I would expect the lack of PT married to all the other requiremetns would land JV in hot water quickly. Administrative remedy is available to remove the scholarship. Anyone that has been on one of the bigger teams has seen it happen to someone on their team or among their circle at least once in their four years.
Note that this concept was allegedly floated by NU's counsel two months after Vassar's counsel had made contact with NU. I suspect Vassar's counsel had threatened litigation via a demand letter. If NU floated the concept of any payment to resolve the claim (which might or might not have happened), I suspect that it would have been done between counsel as a settlement offer to compromise a disputed claim. If that were the case, it might be inadmissible under Rule 408. Again, more speculation. But one needs to understand that the complaint is always going to provide an incomplete picture showing only one side of the story.
The suit as I read it didn't make sense in a lot of instances and was a really strange read. Did anybody else find it jarring that he was referred to throughout as Johnnie?
In one case the plaintiffs allege that an NU attorney told Vassar that Vassar's counsel approved the agreement and he should sign. My question is that if Vassar has counsel, why is the NU attorney communicating directly with Vassar instead of counsel?
Elsewhere, it's claimed that schools said that they would have offered Vassar a scholarship if he didn't have to sit out a year. Which seems, at best, a polite way for them to say they didn't want to offer him a scholarship at all.
These are just two instances of weirdness that make me skeptical of the entire enterprise.
In one case the plaintiffs allege that an NU attorney told Vassar that Vassar's counsel approved the agreement and he should sign. My question is that if Vassar has counsel, why is the NU attorney communicating directly with Vassar instead of counsel?
Elsewhere, it's claimed that schools said that they would have offered Vassar a scholarship if he didn't have to sit out a year. Which seems, at best, a polite way for them to say they didn't want to offer him a scholarship at all.
These are just two instances of weirdness that make me skeptical of the entire enterprise.
Plaintiffs' lawyers sometimes refer to their clients by their first names in an effort to personalize them and make them seem more sympathetic. I suspect Vassar's counsel also did so to emphasize his relative youth.
As to your second point, I think you are misreading Paragraph 56. It alleges that a deputy athletic director, not NU's counsel, had that communication with Vassar.
Your last point is a fair read of the situation. That would certainly be a polite way to say, "Thanks, but no thanks."
We don't know enough about what was going on in the gym and locker room to make that assessment.
Not necessarily. You don't know enough facts to make a judgment. Neither do I. It's too early for torches and pitchforks.
So, you're not sure if Collins ran Vassar off the team? Really? For what it's worth that is just standard operating procedure in college sports but so much the NU fan base clings to the idea that NU doesn't engage in such unsavory things and runs its business in a superior and more ethical way. It's all a cesspool and NU is no different than any place else.
No, I'm not. Neither are you. And even if he did, neither of us know the entire circumstances--such as whether it was all about athletic performance or whether it involved other factors. I never understood why some folks rush to judgment based on hearing just one side of a story. NU might be in the wrong here, maybe not. And there is a decent chance the truth falls somewhere in a messy middle. Let's see how it shakes out.
I'm not positive what Illinois law says on this point, but parties generally retain the right to negotiate directly with each other, even if they are represented by counsel.
In sure the line of employers chomping at the bit to hire Johnny Vassar after this is simply Yuge.
I admittedly rushed to judgement this morning because filing a suit AFTER the scholarship was secured did not make sense to me. But the more I think about it, the more I think he's just being used like a tool by the law firm.
There's a lot that has to be looked at and cleaned up here if true. We need to understand the time cards. We need to understand why he wasn't allowed to apply for a different job (potentially as big an issue as the time cards). And, we need to understand why he had to appeal to keep his scholarship. Why so much pressure?
Vassar could very well be a huge, arrogant prick. I have no idea. But it could be that's exactly the personality type needed to push back and win an appeal.
What I do have an idea about is that none of us know the facts, and may never know the facts. So, getting the kid his degree and cleaning up what may be broken in the athletic department are good near term outcomes while this plays out with the lawyers.
I think its worth noting that lawyers were probably happy to represent him because of the landmark nature of the case.
I'm sure they were also happy to embellish details to make NU bad to substantiate their case mostly against the NCAA.
The merits of the antitrust case and the reasons for Vassar's involvement in the suit are almost beside the point. Vassar has made concrete allegations involving both illegal actions (forging time cards) and NCAA violations (offering cash) by persons in the NU athletic department. These allegations should be investigated, regardless of whether Vassar's suit proceeds and regardless of whether he's being "used as a tool." There was nothing like this alleged in the Colter union suit.
I wonder if the kid is being used also. OTOH, it's pretty obvious he was headed in this direction shortly after he was shown the door.
One way or the other, I hope someone is in JV's ear making sure he gets his degree through all of this. He's has several chances to make this work for himself, all of which he's passing on to make his point. I'm not in love with the way he's conducting business, but I could be convinced to applaud that he's fighting the good fight.
However, one way or the other, he needs to come out of all this with at least a degree or else he will have truly shortchanged himself. And it won't be the fault of NU or CC. He's had more than enough chances.
Except Colter's actions were meant to and did help college players gain additional medical assurances, added food allowances and spots on decision making boards. Vassar's actions are meant to help just one person.
Why would it be an NCAA violation to offer to settle a threatened lawsuit by a former player (assuming that even happened)?
Interesting question. I'm sure Kentucky would love all their one and dones to sue them on the way out the door so they could then turn around and "settle" for all the cash they now have to leave in ziplocks under rocks in the middle of the night.
College coaches talk. There's a reason no school wanted anything to do with Vasser.
I'm referring to this, from the complaint:
"By March 9, 2016, Northwestern had resorted to consideration of a cash payment to make Johnnie go away and free up his scholarship. Thus, Northwestern’s Deputy General Counsel, Priya Harjani, informally inquired into Johnnie’s openness to considering a cash payment equivalent to the remaining value of his athletics scholarship."
Cashing out a scholarship strikes me as an impermissible benefit, though I admit I don't know if there's a specific rule about it. Still, since it didn't actually happen, it wouldn't be a major violation.
I wondered if this offer was in response to a demand from Vassar's counsel. What I liked about the offer was that it allowed him to get his degree and play somewhere else.
It would be more than shocking if NU made such an offer in violation of NCAA rules. Not saying NU is composed of saints, but this would be as overt as it gets.
Right, the idea is very similar to buying out a coach's contract when you fire him. I'd be very surprised if the NCAA permits it, though, since it seems like that kind of loophole would be ripe for abuse.
The chronology in the complaint certainly suggests that this overture by NU (if it happened, and it didn't sound like an offer at all, as much as just floating a concept) occurred in response to a demand from Vassar's counsel. And Vassar was no longer on the team at the time. Both sides were lawyered up, and NU had senior management involved and was clearly in communication with the NCAA and the B1G, so I doubt NU would have done anything that constituted an NCAA violation. I suspect Vassar's lawyers pleaded this "offer" only because they want it to be publicly perceived as an admission of civil liability. It probably wouldn't be admissible in court for that purpose.
This program has been loaded with players who weren't good enough for years, as it is now. Those timecards look like bad news that will be difficult to explain away. When a player is obviously not up to the task as a freshman, that is on the coaches and their poor scouting of a prospect.
As an ND fan as well, I'm really disappointed Humphery may have been a part of this. Puts him in a different light, if true.
I'm late to the game here, but only people who weren't paying attention saw Vasser as anything but a high-risk prospect the day his commitment was announced.
It's not normal to:
- attend four schools
- be on the radar as a 14-year-old freshman, then completely off the map as a prospect for two years. You've gotta *try* to get forgotten in this era of coverage, and he was
Update:
In skimming the suit, CCC sure comes out sounding like a dick.
I like the part where they say that JV only had a scholarship available because they ran Turner off the team.
I wonder if any player would confirm the account that several players approached JV to say that CCC's comments in February 2015 were over the top.
JV'a 'transfer' was fishy the moment it was announced.
It seems to me that the four-year scholarship is an option, not a mandate. I wonder if nu would be more selective in 4 years versus one year renewable in the future.
The loss of athletic benefits for an academic scholarship is absolutely a problem.
JV was probably a tough teammate to have such ire directed at him. But, again, he was a high risk offer.
"Ohhhh, we *would* take you, but not if we have to wait a year" is such a ridiculous lie. The programs know the rules.
I like that Hump uses 'Hump', and not 'Humph.'
The treatment of his mother strikes me as bordering on harassment.
I still hope he graduates from NU.
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Had "you suck" been the worst of what my bball coaches said to us we would have received no criticism and no coaching. I didn't especially enjoy it, but I remember screaming and swearing that would make a sailor blush.
And the irony is that we want to criticize him for changing schools and simultaneously criticize him for not changing schools (not leaving NU promptly).
I don't see the need for his complaint to throw everything at NU in the dumpster if his objection is that he can't transfer and play. But he's a junior and still at NU. Best thing above all else is to get him that sheepskin.
And the irony is that we want to criticize him for changing schools and simultaneously criticize him for not changing schools (not leaving NU promptly).
I don't see the need for his complaint to throw everything at NU in the dumpster if his objection is that he can't transfer and play. But he's a junior and still at NU. Best thing above all else is to get him that sheepskin.
Agreed that there is a lot of seemingly irrelevant dirt included in the Class Action Complaint. Along those lines, I agree with you that a coach saying/screaming some challenging things to his team behind closed doors is a non-story. Everyone knows that CC is a super competitive, passionate guy who wants to win. The suit is not about CC being verbally abusive to a player but rather about an alleged institutional conspiracy to screw Johnnie out of a scholarship at Northwestern and a future career in basketball. Unfortunately, it's the "you suck" thing that stands out a bit and will be discussed by fans--and the whole complaint will probably used against us in recruiting by other programs.
While I wish that things might have been handled better/differently throughout the process, I ultimately don't think that any of this will wind up hurting CC or our hoops program too much in the long run.
I don't know about that. Collins is a Duke guy, and the quotes in the complaint are mild compared to some of the things that have come out of Coach K's mouth. Verbal abuse shouldn't be okay but it's incredibly common. That was the least eyebrow-raising part of the whole thing, honestly.
Well any of this doesn't come close to the actions at nd. Guys riding around in cars with dope and guns. Football player sexually assaulting a female student, who later committed suicide and then the administration refused to even talk to talk to her parents. Student filming a practice from a raised platform, in high winds was told to continue filming, until he was blown down to his death. You really should concern yourself with the problems in So. Bend and not worry about things in Evanston.
It is common. That was sort of the point that I was making. It pales in comparison to many other coaches, including past NU coaches and really doesn't have much relevance to the heart of the complaint. Still, it seems to be one of the main topics people are discussing.
"You suck (so much that we won't honor our commitment to you and will do our best to make things awful for you so that you want to leave)" is the problem.
I assume this will have zero impact on northwestern basketball or Chris Collins' career.
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