Collins needs to recruit some shooters
- Thread starter TheC
- Start date
I think most college basketball players are inconsistent shooters, especially from 3-point territory. Check out somebody you think is a good shooter and you will usually find that they have lots of games where they shoot poorly from 3-point range. In the 8 games before tonight, Trimble went 2-11 against Illinois, 1-6 v. OSU, 0-4 against Purdue, 1-4 against PSU, 0-2 against Minnesota, and 1-6 against OSU again. The other 2 games were good. Law and Lindsey are actually very good 3-point shooters compared to most college players. So is Taphorn, obviously. What we are lacking are guys other than Bryant and Brown that can create their own shots consistently and draw fouls when their shots aren't falling. I am hoping that Law can get stronger and really work on that part of his game this summer. Lindsey definitely made some big strides this year on scoring from all over the court.
+1. Just realize that TheC and a couple others have no 24 hour rule after a loss. Hell, they don't even have a 5 minute rule during a game. TheC was ripping McIntosh in the first half thread of the Wisconsin game. Passionate Cat fans so I get it but some just need to take a deep breath sometimes.
You should read his posts during a football game. He must go crazy watching the Reds play. Poor guy.
Lol. I think this board needs to recruit some posters. Next time wait a day to post....
Do you do this intentionally? Spelling Scottie correctly is really not that difficult.
I'm not that worried about the shooters. We have three of them sitting on he bench right now with various forms of injuries. All three of those guys, Lindsey, Ivanauskas, and Falzon are shooters, although after watching Falzon last year he doesn't seem able to create his own shot. Ivanauskas was one of the top players in this state his junior year at Barrington and apparently played pretty well in Prep School, and we all know what Lindsey can do. Another thing they are 6-7 to 6-9.
I think our job in the future is to get more speed in the backcourt. You have got to love those Maryland guards. Three burners!
I don't think my post was from a really negative place this time. I was mainly commenting on the fact that I think this program can get even better under Collins. The athleticism of this team has improved under CCC to where we can now compete and possibly even make our first NCAAs, but as was pointed out in the broadcast last night, this team is still almost at the very bottom of the BIG in shooting. Hence, think how great we could be if we had a couple more guys who could more consistently put it in the basket.
Now... I do rip on Mac during the games admittedly. As much as I love what he has meant to the program, during the games, watching him miss bad floater after bad floater drives me crazy. I doubt he cares what I think.
We need players who can create their shot WAY MORE than we need shooters. Guys who can create open up the floor for the shooters.
Ha..... I'm a Reds' fan, Bengals' fan and Northwestern fan. I think everyone here needs to cut me some slack. I've had a tough life.
Revsine mentioned NU's overall shooting percentage a few times on the broadcast: 'not a good shooting but they make up for it in other ways', and 'they're not a great shooting team, but they're not usually this bad.' I'll be honest, I didn't realize they were so low in the conference standings (double-digits, but I don't recall specifically where).
Particularly in the first half, NU seemed to settle for the first open-ish rather than working for a good one.
Particularly in the first half, NU seemed to settle for the first open-ish rather than working for a good one.
Ha..... I'm a Reds' fan, Bengals' fan and Northwestern fan. I think everyone here needs to cut me some slack. I've had a tough life.
I'm old enough to remember when the Big Red Machine destroyed the Cubs every year. One year, the Cubs only won one against the Reds, a 3-2 victory in the second game of a double-header. The Reds players were exhausted from running around the bases in the first game in which they scored double digits. So no sympathy here.
NU is a team filled with decent three point shooters who for the most part are shooting average. Lindsey, Law, Tap, Brown and BMac are all quality shooters. Skelly is a legit threat from distance.
They are not knocking down shots at a rate they should. Why? The effort expended on defense.
At the start of the year one of they keys, IMO, was for NU to shoot around thirty nine percent from three which would make them a top thirty team. It's not happening but NU is winning games, and even games when the shooting is clearly below average.
How? Great defense. The players have put out huge effort defending the perimeter and gang tackling in the paint. Defensive efficiency is way up, opponent shooting percentages way down and NU is winning games. But that has a physical effect and the distance shooting has suffered. A bulkier team would just pound it in the paint when the shooting is off, but NU really can't do that.
In the first half last night the shots were short. That's exhaustion from the Wisconsin game which was won with defense.
There was a great/terrible moment last night where a MD guard missed a layup, but MD scored virtually uncontested on a putback because Brown and Pardon and another (Law? Lumpkin?) were all out of position after going for the swat.
Easy to forget that this is Law's second season, and one where he missed the prior season and certainly an opportunity to get physically stronger as he recovered from his torn labrum, which can easily keep you out of the weight room for 6 months.
I expect Law to become a more consistent offensive threat next year. But the biggest thing will be having Falzon and perhaps Rap (he is more of inside guy, right?) provide some depth so Law does not get physically gassed from playing so many minutes. Next year's team should be very deep across the board.
Brown is a terrible shooter (.337 from the floor, .298 from distance) and Skelly's even worse (.295) from long range this year.
Our most efficient offensive players are Lumpkin, Taphorn, Lindsey, and Pardon, in no particular order. As important as BMac is to the offense - and he really is, the team looks lost when he's not out there - he's not a particularly good shooter and he's significantly worse this year than in the past.
Lat night they only needed to shoot about 30% from 3 (would have been about two more threes) plus about 70% from the line 9would have meant 3 more FT). And it is not as if the shots were not open. Maybe carry over effect of big minutes in WIS game on their legs. Real problem on D. Can't be giving up 45% from 3 and 50% overall. While Lindsey would have helped in both areas, the likely improvement on D would have been huge.
And Lumpkin and Taphorn are efficient because they only take wide open looks (which is fine). We need our scorers to be more efficient. Lindsey has made great strides. I think Law will as well next year. BMac is not a great shooter but he is forced to take a lot of bad shots as the shot clock is winding down. I think he has taken more this year than last year because Demps is gone. I think Brown will make huge strides next year. He will probably always take a few bad shots but as his confidence and shot selection improve, he should shoot a much higher percentage.
OK, I'll give you Lindsey and Pardon but Lumpkin and Taphorn , no way. I know that you are using statistics of some sort but Lumpkin and Tap only shoot when they are wide open and very seldom create there own shot or drive to the basket. OTOH, Law and Mac do both and the eyeball test says that they are the teams best shooters. Hopefully Falzon will give NU a another scoring option next season but I still think they need another guard to run the offense when Mac is not in.
Brown is a freshman! Give him time. He's going to be fine. He can create. He can penetrate. He needs to learn to deviate. That comes with time and the realization that in college at the Big Ten level it's not as easy as "I'm gonna just blow by this guy" ...
Lumpkin and Taphorn have the benefit of being bench players, so they're not asked to do too much, but they're both very smart offensive players who take advantage of opportunities and rarely take dumb shots. Law is up and down - when he's on, he can be dominant, but when he's not, he can disappear from games, as we saw last night.
However, if your eyeball test tells you that BMac is the team's best shooter, you need your eyeballs checked.
I know he's a freshman, and he may very well become a much more controlled, efficient offensive player. He definitely has the ability to create offense and put points on the board. But the assertion was that he is a quality shooter. He might become one in the future, but right now he is not.
Willy is exactly right. Tap and Sanjay get few touches compared to the primary options. Almost never at the end of a shot clock.
It's apples and oranges.
If it was that easy you could just up their touches and....wa lah...NU would make shots it previously missed.
While B Mac isn't converting at the same rate he did his first two years opponents still play him as though his threat level has never changed. He goes into the pain and takes difficult shots, moves into space and shoots, etc., etc. That consistently opens it up for.....wait for it.....guys like Tap and Sanjay to get wide, wide, wide open looks or clean breaks to the basket.
Personally, the last player I''d try to recruit is a tweener, a 6-5 - 6-7 guy who has a bit of an outside shot, but isn't rock solid. Got plenty of those.
I agree the Cats need that rock, solid shooter. They also need another banger at the 4 - Lumpkin with some size. How many did Maryland have last night?
Add a future starter at the point, and that would be dream for two years.
I agree the Cats need that rock, solid shooter. They also need another banger at the 4 - Lumpkin with some size. How many did Maryland have last night?
Add a future starter at the point, and that would be dream for two years.
Brown is not yet selective in his shots. he should get better. Skelly was doing alright prior to the last few games where he has gone 0 for. at said, the fact that skelly can hit from outside is more of a luxury as he plays 4 and 5.
Skelly has also visibly lost confidence in his outside shot - he's very slow to release the ball, even when he's wide open. I'm sure he can improve his percentage if he gets his head right. But as you say, that's not the primary reason he's out there.
I think this was really well said.
And I agree with Styre's points about player efficiency, I think we would also agree that you can't easily just up the shots taken for Tap and Sanjay and improve the offense, as they are dependent on others to create for them. Tap is a great shooter, but he's too slow to create his own shot. Sanjay is an okay shooter that knows his limits and is smart about shot selection. He also adds a ton on defense. I think we've all noticed that BMac's shooting has regressed this year, even on uncontested 3s (which he actually gets a fair amount of). I do think Vic is a good shooter, but he takes a LOT of tough shots, so makes it hard on himself. It's weird cause he's very quick on defense, but he isn't particularly quick off the dribble on offense, he doesn't have the fluidity that some other guys have. He does make up for this with his strength and athleticism - which allow him to shoot over guys or finish through contact. Isaiah looks like he could be a decent shooter but has lots of work to do on shot selection.
If we were to eliminate context and just let everyone shoot 100 or so open 3s from an array of spots on the floor, I would guess that Tap, Scottie, and Vic are the best outside shooters on this year's team in some order. Mac's ability to create his own shot in the lane and create plays for others still makes him our best offensive player though.
I agree with that, and I also believe that we need some more reliable shooting options (and right now, Lindsey back healthy) so that Mac isn't thinking the offensive load is on his shoulders. I think any team where Mac is the primary scoring threat is going to be limited offensively, whereas a team that allows him to facilitate and be the #2 or #3 option could be very good indeed.
Don't be surprised when Law's and BMac's shooting efficiency improves with a healthy Lindsey on the floor. Right now we seem to have good shooters injured on the bench, decent shooters with confidence issues, and solid shooters under a lot of defensive pressure.
Having said that, good shooting seems like a no-brainer skill Collins looks for and actively recruits. I'm confident he's keeping it in mind.
Having said that, good shooting seems like a no-brainer skill Collins looks for and actively recruits. I'm confident he's keeping it in mind.
Law is forcing more shots because Lindsey is out. As Collins says, he's a stuff the stats guy who is also one of our best outside shooters when he gets clean looks. But he's not a natural scorer. He's taking shots that I don't think he would take if he didn't feel the pressure to score in Lindsey's absence.
Agree with pretty much everything you said. Folks also need to keep in mind that from an efficiency standpoint, shooting around 35% from 3-point range is shooting a little bit better than 50% from two-point range. Law is shooting about 42% from 3-point range so he's doing pretty well this year. He's actually shooting slightly worse overall, which supports your point that he's taking tough 2-point shots. I think he needs to get stronger and learn how to finish at the rim a little bit better as well (he should be drawing more fouls when he attacks the rim like Brown), which will help his efficiency a lot.
I think we have all the players on the roster that we need now. It is simply that three of them are injured/sick right now. I just believe that somehow they all need to somehow stay healthy- that and to be able to practice together for an extended amount of time under their coaches' tutelage. We have what we need to make the big tourney this year- I think what will decide if we get there now is dependent on if SLindsey can get his game legs back in time to impact the rest of this season's games.
