Poor choice. If Jango had committed to him, and then Harbaugh found someone he liked better, all of the sudden Harbaugh would mysteriously start getting tough to contact. Some vague admissions hangup would curiously arise. The guy's a terrific football coach, but has an astonishing, indefensible track record of blatantly screwing kids when it suited his purpose. Parents should forbid their sons from even taking phone calls from this shameless (and oh, yes - charismatic) scumbag. Sorry to hear you were swayed by his crap, and hopefully you'll be less gullible in the future.
Credit where it's due
- Thread starter gocatsgo2003
- Start date
Jango will be at NU, so it is not an issue. He and his brother were very nice yo Jango and I. Jango doesn't like being yelled at, he shuts down. I think Fitz is the perfect Coach for Jango. My sons character and morals matters to me more than wins or education. I think Fitz also puts a priority on these things.
I think harbaugh gets a bad wrap. His peers love him. Fans love him. He is old school so players worship him. He is not politically correct so he plays 60 minutes and smashes your face if he is up by 31. Even passes in your redzone with his first team with two minutes to go, after you submit and tap out by putting in your second team. He is football. I love his style. Fitz could learn from him.
He wont be as unpolished as bobby knight but im sure he will get fired for some things he may say or do that will piss off the status quo boys.
Harbaugh will raise the level of coaching in this conference. Fitz will raise his own game and im sure we will do better next time. Like the same fighter with a better trainer, michigan is better.
Fitz coaching against hoke didnt help fitz but coaching againsy harbaugh will help fitz and our team. Recruits will continue shifting back to the bigten. The great ones will go to michigan and meyer yet while others will want to play in the best conference again...the bigten. And that will help nu
Fitz coaching against hoke didnt help fitz but coaching againsy harbaugh will help fitz and our team. Recruits will continue shifting back to the bigten. The great ones will go to michigan and meyer yet while others will want to play in the best conference again...the bigten. And that will help nu
How many recruits commit to a school and later decommit because they got what they thought was a better offer or changed their minds. It goes both ways in recruiting. When a Coach does it he is thought poorly of, when a recruit does it, no big deal.
Every college coach wants to win. Not every college coach actively screws over high schoolers.
Excellent post, Glades. My thoughts exactly, except you put it into words better than I could have.
I would LOVE to play Michigan again, because that would mean we won the west, they won the east, and we're in the B1G championship. Neutral field, we can beat them. Stranger things have happened.
Then you have not looked very closely at his record while at Stanford. The guy screwed many recruits and players for the sake of winning. He did all of this while calling out programs (including Michigan) for how they ran their programs and not producing true student athletes. That is the definition of hypocrisy.
I think most would associate harbaugh with ditka but i associate him more with Bo. Bo never ever talked bad about any of his players, and although ditka was a similar old school, he talked about his players and put himself above them, and i think that cost mike that FIRST ingredient that was missing in his later years....respect from the lockerroom. Players stopped playing for him moreso than the game passing him by. Thats why i tend to associate harbaugh with Bo...he seems to have his players backs.
When a coach screws a recruit, he's potentially screwing with that kid's entire future. From what I read, Harbaugh set a policy of doing this at Stanford, using "admissions" decisions as the pretext for dropping kids. A few of them found opportunities at NU and other schools, but some were left hung out to dry. It's sleazy, and it's deeply unfair to the kids and their families. A 45-year old coach who has a few kids decommit each year is in a much different (and safer) position.
That's not how it should work. Leadership starts with leading by example. A coach that wants to build his program on strong character, commitment, and trust does not engage in tit for tat behavior because 18 old HS football kids change their mind occasionally. I know most college coaches behave this way but Harbaugh has publicly claimed that his programs do things the right way and chastised others (including Michigan while he was at Stanford) for not running their programs the right way. That makes Harbaugh a hypocrite and an asshole. As I stated in other threads, he is a great football coach and one that would not have allowed his team to show up as unprepared as NU did yesterday. That being said, I'll still take Fitz to run my college football program over Harbaugh.
The whole thread was about giving credit, not suggesting that we take harbaugh over fitz. Harbaugh fit at michigan. Fitz fits here. I admire harbaugh for coaching at academic prestigeous schools as stanford and michigan. I really dont understand the hate. Is he perfect? No but his interpretation of commitment isnt wrong just because it is a different etiquette than Fitz'. His etiquette is not kind or gentle and there is no question that he would break his commitment to a lesser recruit like colter if a player sustained injury. Its his program and he is all about winning and getting the utmost out of a player both physically and academically. But he isnt going to b a nice fella and run a charity to a high school kid who blew out a knee. As brutal as that may sound, its not unfair.
BS Turk. You can say that it is how college football works, a win at all costs mentality. Fine, I'll accept that because it is. But don't say it's fair and don't say it's not hypocritical. In a weird way I can accept the way SEC schools run their programs more than what Harbaugh has done because at least they are upfront and honest about what they are doing. They essentially are running minor league NFL teams and everyone, including the players that commit to those schools, knows it. Harbaugh cannot claim to run a program that is any better than the rest while he engages in the type of unethical recruiting practices he has in the past. That makes him the biggest hypocrite around.
As far as I am concerned, the end does not justify the means. I want to win as badly as anyone around (ask anybody who had the misfortune of sitting next to me in Ann Arbor while I cursed my way through that debacle) but I am not willing to compromise certain values to do it. I am an NU fan because they are not a program that is willing to win at all costs.
I don't know enough about Harbaugh and his past recruiting to know how he is really. Jango was not offered by Michigan, and there was no need for me to do research. I researched Fitz and we sat down and talked recruiting and what both sides expected. I trust Fitz and what he said. I feel Fitz wants his players successful on and off the field and believes in family and morals. I feel Jango made the right choice for Jango. Had Michigan offered, I would have researched Harbaugh and asked him the same questions we asked Fitz.
I have no doubt that Harbaugh was good in person while recruiting. The real fun would have happened if he had taken Jango's commitment, then decided he didn't want him anymore. There are many MANY examples of Harbaugh hanging kids out to dry to serve his own ends.
I hope that isn't true. I would hope that a Coach would do his homework on a kid and be certain he wants him before taking his commitment.
Lol and what about the last two shutouts and two dominating wins before that. Wow, either harbaugh is really lucky at catching lightning in a bottle over and over again, or else he's just a good coach.
No, not every game starts with a KO return for TD and a quick TD after that, but when you're the new number one defense after three consecutive shutouts, it's clearly not luck.
Couldn't be further from the truth with Harbaugh. He was known for making "shotgun offers" shortly after Signing Day and taking commitments from kids before "trading up" if he found recruits he liked better. Essentially, he hid behind Stanford's academics (using them to "reject" players without taking responsibility for it) rather than using them as a positive.
It was bad, but the results were so good that Stanford's supporters didn't really care.
Actually, yes. You could see the Cats were flustered and playing stupid, I've watched enough college football to know that these are still kids and some kids panic during adversity. Maybe it's the teacher in me, but I could see it immediately after the kick return. I knew it was over.
Besides, let's face it. Our team wins on defense. We aren't built for bad starts.
The KR had a huge influence. Seemed like our guys got out of or were knocked out of their lanes. We seemed shell shocked after that for the first couple series. Then the missed FG. Downhill from there but the D only really gave up 3 more pts.
That interception sure looked like the pass was in a good position and still not how it was intercepted.
There were several (at least 3) blatant holds on that KOR as well. Still, that play should never happen as several guys on the KO coverage team got worked over cleanly too. It certainly gave UM momentum and unleashed their crowd.
Same here. Mich came out hot and NU not so much. THat KR was a killer as it basically put us behind the chains and gave them a huge amount of energy. THe combination of them already being sky high (it was homecoming) and that gave them emotion in those first 5 minutes. THey converted that emotion to points and it was over.
If we played them again because we won the West, it would be on a neutral site and it would right after they would have played dOSU. Outcome might be the same but I would like the opportunity to find out
Probably ought to modify that to doesn't care about the kids until he actually allows them into the program. If you are a recruit he will screw you but have not heard he did it once guys were on the roster. Not sure it didn't happen,just had not heard it.
I would say we were not ranked badly at 13. Just that the way MICH played, they are closer to being the number one team, not just in the BIG but in the country. The only teams that looks like it belongs in the same conversation is Baylor. We are deep and talented for NU but a long way from the amount of talent at MICH.. Hoke was doing a very good job recruiting. 40 4 stars and 4 5 stars. And now they are upper classmen. We probably only have about 6 guys that would even get playing time on their roster.
We had to come out sharp and that opening KR knocked the wind out of us. And by the time we recovered it was too late. If we beat IA, everyone else looks pretty beatable
No one is saying that MICH is not a very good team (the way they played yesterday, in the top two in the NCAA) . Just that that opening kickoff definitely changed the complection of the game. By the time NU got their feet under them, the game was over.
CatsDad, coaches are supposed to be better than high schoolers - held to a higher standard, anyway. Wouldn't you agree? Admittedly, it's not good when recruits change their minds; nobody likes that. But when coaches do that to seventeen-year-olds, they should be banned from the profession. I am sincerely glad he never got the chance to screw your son, because had it suited his purposes, he would've done so without so much as a second thought. Wins or no wins, college football is most certainly NOT better for the inclusion of shameless jackasses like that. Glad Jango ultimately made a smarter choice.
As far as I understand, all the Stanford players thought very highly of him. The players in the NFL, perhaps not so much - because as pro's, they don't like being treated like army recruits. I think people on this board on confusing how they perceive Harbaugh to treat kids he is recruiting (where the accusation is he misleads and will use you) but are not yet on campus to players that actually make it there. I don't think there is any record of him doing anything that would be perceived as mistreatment or hypocrisy to any of his actual players.
Why did he get a Gatorade bath in his final game? Why did many players wait until they knew his status before they signed with other teams? Frank Gore explicitly said he was waiting for Harbaugh's status to clear up before he went and signed with the Colts instead. Look at the mass exodus of players after he left. Some would've left anyway. Some left because they knew they were on a sinking ship with Tomsula in charge.
I didn't say the pro's didn't like him as a whole. I said not so much. There were definitely players that loved him. Others were more critical.
My only point is that I don't believe he is this complete a-hole that most Cat fans think he is. Perhaps, a bit aggressive on the recruiting front, but I would be proud to have him as our coach. He did a hell of a job with Stanford and now with Michigan. We were utterly outcoached yesterday. Frankly, I'm glad we're in the West. Yesterday, I think we discovered that Michigan is back. I think Harbaugh is going to stomp Sparty next week, and I think dOSU's longstanding stranglehold on the B1G is over.
The funniest critical opinion was when Alex Boone (former Buckeye) said he was upset that Harbaugh was so intense and crazy that he kept pushing them after they lost the Super Bowl. He said that they had "gotten to the mountaintop already" and he needed to chill out.
Wonder how Alex Boone is enjoying his 1-3 season.
I have a question(s), which I'm genuinely interested in. If the situation is different from what I suspect, then that might cause me to change my mind on him. Has there ever been a kid that committed to a verbal offer that did not leave on his own free will or because he wasn't admitted? If the offer was contingent upon admission, then he needs to take that it into account. If I'm not mistaken, the kids who we were Stanford offers that landed at NU all left on their own. No one forced them out - they just stopped calling, and the kids knew they would probably not get any time so left on their own. Did Harbaugh actually take a kid that was admitted and that was offered and tell him, sorry but you no longer have a scholarship?
Another thing, has there been any kid that has ruined their future and life because they didn't end up at Stanford because of Harbaugh? The three kids that ended up at NU all have NU degrees and played big time college football. How is that a ruined future?
With the supposed final word from Stanford admissions coming in January, that leaves very little time to secure a scholarship elsewhere. That was fine 20 years ago when scholarship limits were 30/105 and most recruits decided generally later in the recruiting cycle. Nowadays, kids will find that most scholarships have been handed out and snatched up by the start of the fall. Harbaugh and Stanford were not being honest with families and really jerking kids around.
Didn't the same thing happen with Sean Cotton? I'm not saying we jerked him around, but he found out in the last month or two that he couldn't get in, and ended up having to settle for Eastern Michigan or something like that.
It's a risk you take, when you accept a conditional offer to a school like NU or Stanford with stringent admissions requirements. It doesn't seem to have hurt Stanford though as kids still want to go there.
Man, how many times do we have to go over this with you? You just don't get it or don't want to get it because you are willing to live with this type of unethical behavior if it leads to more winning. The Sean Cotton situation was an isolated incident involving only one coach who ended up being asked to leave at the end of the season in no small part because of this incident. Furthermore, Cotton ultimately didn't have the academic profile to objectively gain admittance at NU as a scholarship football player. What Harbaugh did at Stanford can only be objectively described as a deliberate recruiting strategy perpetrated over a multi year period impacting dozens of players. Furthermore, their non admittance decisions were so blatantly biased that they withdrew scholarship offers on the basis of inadequate academic profile to football players who had GPAs and test scores that were higher than other football recruits who were accepted in the same recruiting class. How can you not distinguish the vast difference between these two scenarios????????????
The whole crux of the issue is that Harbaugh hid behind Stanford's academics and admissions in various ways, all that were to his advantage and bad for high school kids. Harbaugh would blanket offer kids the week after Signing Day, literally sending offer letters via fax to hundreds of kids. He would then accept the commitment from almost any player who would give it to him before hiding behind academics/admissions if he felt he could fill that spot with a better player.
If two kids had substantially equal academic profiles, the high-profile recruit with multiple BCS offers would get his admission decision in September or October while the low-profile recruit with only a handful of offers would be told that he wouldn't know before late January at the earliest. What else is a kid supposed to besides consider other options while they're still viable? A kid who had numerous offers early in the process might have none left at Signing Day if they're taken by others.
And it's not like Stanford was turning away guys with poor academic profiles. I'm not going to publicize kids' academics unless they've done so themselves, but Daniel Davis is a prime example. He was told that he wouldn't be admitted despite carrying a 4.0 GPA and 29 ACT. He eventually landed at Penn. Kain Colter had a similar academic profile.
There was a story making the rounds of a kid who attended a Stanford recruiting event with his offer letter in hand. He tried to commit to Harbaugh in person, but his commitment was refused. This was a kid with multiple BCS offers that ended up as a starter in the Big 12, so it's not like he couldn't play. Harbaugh just decided he didn't want him anymore.
It was the same thing with commits who stopped getting any kind of contact from the program. Do you really think that Stanford would have sent these kids a Letter of Intent for them to sign? They would have been left without a destination after 99.999% of available scholarships were filled. Not exactly an envious position.
We had high school coaches calling our offices literally volunteering to help us recruit against Stanford by sharing their Harbaugh horror stories. I had a list of their contact information on my desk in case anyone asked.
It was bad.
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