Credit where it's due
- Thread starter gocatsgo2003
- Start date
I gather you don't know all the details. I'm not going to pass them on here other than to say that I would also let go of someone who I cannot trust.
Re: poaching and visits - I'm glad Fitz does it now in cases where local kids were recruited by and want to go to NU, were not initially offered by NU and had to select another school, but later a scholarship opens up. Bryant, Johnson, and Nagel are examples.
If that was your son's dream to go to Stanford to play football and he got yanked around like this, I think you'd feel different. Sheesh, the minimum Stanford should do is tell recruits that they've changed their mind and are pulling the offer so that the kid has closure and can look elsewhere while there are still scholarships available. What serious athlete wants to have to play football for a lesser school, an FCS program, or some half-assed Ivy League program when they had solid grades and an offer from Stanford? To not stand by an offer to a high school kid is just slimy and Stanford deserves to be ripped for what they have done to kids and their families. I don't understand why you defend it.
Couple things, E-Cat. First, I'm not sure why you keep trying to use the lowest common denominator (meaning, of course, OSU and the SEC) as the baseline. I'd like to think an institution like Stanford would hold itself to a higher standard of conduct, irrespective of what the slimiest programs do. Second, you've seemingly morphed this into being about Stanford in general. It's PRIMARILY about Stanford under Harbaugh. Yes, there were some apparent improprieties under other coaches there, but the majority of the incidents discussed here are connected to Harbaugh. Most everyone agrees that Stanford is better in their recruiting practices now than the scummier institutions with which you compare them. The point is, a school like Stanford shouldn't even be in the same discussion.
Why stop at the local kids? Why not do it for any kid? Why draw the line there? And I don't see why you make the distinction of a "scholarship opening up" at NU? Isn't the case when any school poaches a kid from anywhere else?
You're probably right that I'd feel different if it was my kid, but then I'd be putting emotional bias into it. Objectively, I agree with the Michigan guy. What they do is not that unethical. So they slow play a kid, and a kid makes a decision to go elsewhere. Which is what happened in every situation named, except possibly Tillman. So, what?? So, a kid has to play at some other school instead of Stanford - tons of kids would rather go to Stanford, BFD - not everyone gets an opportunity to. Not everyone gets to go to NU even though they would rather be at NU vs. a lesser school, an FCS program, or some half-assed Ivy League program. Cry me a river.
I don't defend it, I just don't think it's as evil as you guys make it out to be, and no I don't think Stanford deserved to be ripped so badly for what (little) they have done to kids and their families. They aren't like the kids who are kicked to the curb without college degrees and forced out of the program with nowhere else to go. Do I feel sorry for Kain Colter that he ended up at NU? For Davis because he ended up at Penn? Hell, no. Who's to say their lives aren't better off, including their football lives, where if they had gone to Stanford, perhaps, they might not have ever seen the field (if the coaches didn't believe in them enough to stay warm)? And as the Michigan fan pointed out, not in a single case (except perhaps Tillman) was an offer pulled. The kid moved on by himself.
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That's my point - they SHOULDN'T be in the same discussion, because it's like pubescent pimples vs. malignant tumors. Don't confuse the two. You guys are the ones chastising them when there are so much more evil, in our own conference for Pete's sake, to be disgusted and offended by. Save your wrath for the true evil doers like dOSU and the SEC. Don't waste your time complaining about Harbaurgh and Stanford. I'd be proud to have him as our coach, and I'd love for him to do for our recruiting and for our program what he has done at Stanford and what he appears to be doing at Michigan. Take student athletes that are academically equipped and athletically gifted into this program, give them valuable degrees that are earned and not gained via academic fraud, and make them champions on the field in the process. Those that don't end up at NU - I'm ok if they end up at Ivy League schools or other academic peers. It's not the end of the world and I don't call that getting screwed.
Gonna agree to disagree here, E-Cat. No minds are going to be changed on this, but I appreciate the discourse.
I do agree that I don't know why Harbaugh or whomever doesn't just tell the kid that it probably won't work out.
Per my link above, I still don't see where Harbaugh pulled an offer.
Sure, they were a very good team, but maybe we just sucked. Michigan saw our weaknesses and exploited them and we were unable to respond or adjust. I'm hoping that with a week to prepare our coaches and players take the time to study what Michigan did to us and prepare for Iowa to do the same.
I think the week ahead may show us how good Michigan is and whether Northwestern got steamrolled by an amazing team or just a good team that had a good game plan executed well. I say "may" because Michigan State is so banged up that it may not be a adequate measuring stick for Michigan.
Iowa, on the other hand, will show us - win or lose - where we stand.
Go 'Cats!
Ecat, so you think it is perfectly OK for a university to lie and play games with kids college admissions? Ofter a scholarship, accept a verbal, and then ignore the kid until he and his family become so anxious that he has to look elsewhere. A university that wouldn't even pick up the phone when the family calls out of concern. I'm sorry, but that is unbelievably slimy for a major university to do that to kids...and all over some unacademic sideshow like football.
Not entirely correct. There were a lot of comments about Harbaugh on this board before he was anywhere near the B1G.
In the context of Northwestern, 60-53 is not a mediocre record. Pappy Waldorf went 49-45 at NU, and Ara Parseghian went 36-35. Both are in the college football Hall of Fame.
This is very true. What we have not yet seen is Harbaugh using this standard at UM. Hopefully we will see a better side of him in a new culture. That may be giving UM too much credit but time will tell.
There is already talk of having or about to have more verbals than actual scholarships. It will be interesting how much action there is around signing day at Michigan. I expect a few medical retirements at some point.
But that's before OOC schedules were ruined by games against uncompetitive FCS schools (UNH and APP State aside). OOC schedules used to be as hard or harder than the Big Ten schedule. Imagine playing Nebraska (1972 MNC), Notre Dame (reigning MNC), and Oregon for an OOC schedule like we did in 1974. The weakest non-conference teams we would play would be an occasional MAC team, but they were often years apart. Most schedules would feature all Power5 teams.
NU started playing FCS opponents with Princeton in 1986. The next time we played an FCS school was Northeastern in 2006. FCS games are almost always dreadful games with little entertainment value IMO.
I sat in the NJ rain and watched a poor NU team destroy Princeton in '86. Huge mismatch. I was also at the Northeastern game, which was 2007, not 2006 (the New Hampshire debacle was in Pat's first year, 2006). Another huge mismatch. But I met Tyrell Sutton's mom at the game and she was a very nice lady.
Its fair. If you and i know harbaugh doesnt consider a verbal in the same regards asfitz then im sure the recruits know as well. In fact my hunch is that other schools inform the recruits insomuch as the player and his parents have full disclosure. Its fair in that regards. I still cant believe we have fans still discussing this presumably cuz harbough ear holled us last week. Can we flush harbaugh talk now and move on to iowa? The players have and so should we. Geez.
