+/- for the Mistreatment of Michigan State

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Luke Hunger got his first start for Northwestern and the team bounced back admirably from a poor effort in Champaign, throttling the Spartans 88-74.
It was an important win, certainly NU's best effort since the Purdue game.

Player	Minutes	NU Pts	MSU Pts	Raw +/-	Player Adjust	Game +/-
Berry	35	79	65	+14	+4.4	+7.2
Hunger	19	44	31	+13	+3.7	+6.3
Buie	38	86	71	+15	+1.9	+4.9
Nicholson	10	23	14	+9	-0.85	+0.95
Martinelli	22	36	42	-6	+1.9	+0.7
Barnhizer	35	83	63	+20	-3.9	+0.1
Preston	9	13	20	-7	-0.5	-1.9
Langborg	32	76	64	+12	-6.7	-4.3

NU's success came from 3 lineups.
Hunger with Barnhizer / Berry / Buie / Langborg put up 24 points and allowed 19 in just over 8 minutes.
The prior success of this lineup was highlighted here after the Illinois game.
NU scores points at a high rate when that group of 5 is on the court.

The most successful lineup against MSU was actually our prior starting lineup...
Nicholson/Barnhizer/Berry/Langborg/Buie punished the Spartans 23-11 over 8 minutes.
Nicholson again battled foul problems although his 2nd foul was ridiculous.
The third approach that produced for NU was Hunger with Barnhizer and Martinelli. That trio put up a 17-9 advantage over 8.5 minutes.
NU did not play particularly well when Preston was at the 5.
Nicholson did not play with Martinelli and Barnhizer at the same time, unfortunately.

With Hunger at the 5, the offense was much more fluid and we did some damage on the offensive boards.
I'm pretty sure there were also changes made to the offense when Nicholson was out there.
He set multiple screens away from the ball to free up shooters who were running around trying to lose their defender.
That stood in contrast with the standard "Nicholson sets ball screen for Buie while 3 guys stand and wait for a kickout."
We did some of that too, but I loved seeing the increased motion from Berry, Langborg and Barnhizer.

Really an impressive win for NU and a good night for Chris Collins. Ty Berry had another good game.

 

[EagerFan]

Loved the one assist Matt had. That was a nice play. He struggled again, but it also seemed to me he got the point that playing time isn't a given. I thought he played a lot harder in his second half time and had a better defensive performance then. I could be wrong, but it seems like all of his stats, except the fouls, happened then.

 

[ballerog711]

They all got the point playing time is not given. Nice win. Have to be able to do it on the road.

 

[SmellyCat]

Boo was pretty great last night - another good All-American performance. It helps when guys like Berry are shooting well, but the team as a whole plays soooo much better when Buie is getting them more involved instead of just playing hero ball. Just because Boo CAN play hero ball doesn't mean it's good for the team.

 

[phatcat]

Boo was pretty great last night - another good All-American performance. It helps when guys like Berry are shooting well, but the team as a whole plays soooo much better when Buie is getting them more involved instead of just playing hero ball. Just because Boo CAN play hero ball doesn't mean it's good for the team.

He was letting others do their thing for 25-30 minutes, then when our O cooled off, he basically said 'ok give me the ball and get out of the way'

 

[GatoLouco]

Luke Hunger got his first start for Northwestern and the team bounced back admirably from a poor effort in Champaign, throttling the Spartans 88-74.
It was an important win, certainly NU's best effort since the Purdue game.

Player	Minutes	NU Pts	MSU Pts	Raw +/-	Player Adjust	Game +/-
Berry	35	79	65	+14	+4.4	+7.2
Hunger	19	44	31	+13	+3.7	+6.3
Buie	38	86	71	+15	+1.9	+4.9
Nicholson	10	23	14	+9	-0.85	+0.95
Martinelli	22	36	42	-6	+1.9	+0.7
Barnhizer	35	83	63	+20	-3.9	+0.1
Preston	9	13	20	-7	-0.5	-1.9
Langborg	32	76	64	+12	-6.7	-4.3

NU's success came from 3 lineups.
Hunger with Barnhizer / Berry / Buie / Langborg put up 24 points and allowed 19 in just over 8 minutes.
The prior success of this lineup was highlighted here after the Illinois game.
NU scores points at a high rate when that group of 5 is on the court.

The most successful lineup against MSU was actually our prior starting lineup...
Nicholson/Barnhizer/Berry/Langborg/Buie punished the Spartans 23-11 over 8 minutes.
Nicholson again battled foul problems although his 2nd foul was ridiculous.
The third appraoch that produced for NU was Hunger with Barnhizer and Martinelli. That trio put up a 17-9 advantage over 8.5 minutes.
NU did not play particularly well when Preston was at the 5.
Nicholson did not play with Martinelli and Barnhizer at the same time, unfortunately.

With Hunger at the 5, the offense was much more fluid and we did some damage on the offensive boards.
I'm pretty sure there were also changes made to the offense when Nicholson was out there.
He set multiple screens away from the ball to free up shooters who were running around trying to lose their defender.
That stood in contrast with the standard "Nicholson sets ball screen for Buie while 3 guys stand and wait for a kickout."
We did some of that too, but I loved seeing the increased motion from Berry, Langborg and Barnhizer.

Really an impressive win for NU and a good night for Chris Collins. Ty Berry had another good game.

Surprised by the +/- of Martinelli. Can your magic tell me what the way in the last maybe 8 or 10 minutes of the first half? I could swear it was the Barnhizer at 3 and Nick at 4 that opened the big lead.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Boo was pretty great last night - another good All-American performance. It helps when guys like Berry are shooting well, but the team as a whole plays soooo much better when Buie is getting them more involved instead of just playing hero ball. Just because Boo CAN play hero ball doesn't mean it's good for the team.

I don’t think Boo has played hero ball the last two seasons. If he gets ultra aggressive it’s because others aren’t scoring. That’s what stars do.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I don’t think Boo has played hero ball the last two seasons. If he gets ultra aggressive it’s because others aren’t scoring. That’s what stars do.

The board’s definition of hero ball is: Boo on a iso play and the shot misses.

 

[phatcat]

The board’s definition of hero ball is: Boo on a iso play and the shot misses.

I think he gets a lot of calls because of the defense and the refs respecting him. And a foul is like an automatic 2 pts

 

[Hungry Jack]

We knew the game was over when Jaxon Kohler's haircut entered the game.

 

[SmellyCat]

The board’s definition of hero ball is: Boo on a iso play and the shot misses.

How right you are!

I don't love his iso plays, but I can't argue with the results overall. I just like the way NU plays when he's NOT doing it - he definitely has to do it when Berry, etc. aren't shooting well.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Surprised by the +/- of Martinelli. Can your magic tell me what the way in the last maybe 8 or 10 minutes of the first half? I could swear it was the Barnhizer at 3 and Nick at 4 that opened the big lead.

I was also surprised that Martinelli had a negative +/- but he had a positive impact overall.

with 10:15 to go in the first half, we were down 22-18. Collins subbed out Langborg after MSU had gone on an 11-4 spurt against 3 lineups, all of which included Martinelli and Langborg.

Hunger/Martinelli/Barnhizer/Berry/Buie then went 6-2 to tie it at 24.
Nicholson/Langborg/Barnhizer/Berry/Buie went 5-2 to make it 29-26
Preston came in for Nicholson (3rd foul) and NU went 5-2 again to lead 34-28 with 5:21 left in the half.
NU closed out the first half with an 8-0 run with Hunger/Berry/Langborg and Buie on the court with either Barnhizer or Martinelli.


When Buie/Barnhizer/Berry/Langborg were out there, NU outscored MSU 57-40 in only 19 minutes. But that includes 2 minutes at the end, where Martinelli was playing the 5. If you remove that, which was done for free-throw shooting, Buie/Barnhizer/Berry/Langborg shredded MSU 49-31 in about 17 minutes.

 

[Hungry Jack]

Is there anything to Clayton not playing last night? Boo is piling up the minutes, and conference play is beginning in earnest.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

He was letting others do their thing for 25-30 minutes, then when our O cooled off, he basically said 'ok give me the ball and get out of the way'

I love that Buie is such a superlatively good player that everybody, including the TV crew, takes it as “he’s taking a back seat and letting everybody else do the work” when he had 7 assists, a couple steals, and drew like 4 fouls on drives in the first half along with his 6 points. He was still the focal point of everything, he was just letting other wide open guys take the shot. He’s just that damn good. It feels like he had a quiet game but he had 19 points and 10 assists for his first double double plus three steals, a block, and no turnovers. Hell of a quiet game!

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Is there anything to Clayton not playing last night? Boo is piling up the minutes, and conference play is beginning in earnest.

Collins seems to have re-assessed Clayton's readiness after the DePaul game.

If you look at the ratio of NU pts / Opponent Points for each guy on the team, Clayton stands out like a sore thumb. His ratio is 0.834. The next worst is Preston at 1.034. Buie is 1.127. Thats a really strong indication that Clayton was not getting it done. Doesn't mean he can't improve.

To your larger point though, with 5 guys playing 4 positions, NU is vulnerable to things like fatigue, injury and foul trouble. If Hunger can play the 4 as an alternative, that eliminates many of the bad scenarios, but we have no backup plan for Buie.

 

[SmellyCat]

I love that Buie is such a superlatively good player that everybody, including the TV crew, takes it as “he’s taking a back seat and letting everybody else do the work” when he had 7 assists, a couple steals, and drew like 4 fouls on drives in the first half along with his 6 points. He was still the focal point of everything, he was just letting other wide open guys take the shot. He’s just that damn good. It feels like he had a quiet game but he had 19 points and 10 assists for his first double double plus three steals, a block, and no turnovers. Hell of a quiet game!

Absolutely. Felt like it was one of the best games of his career, which is saying something.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

but we have no backup plan for Buie.

No team has a backup plan for a player like Buie, and NU certainly doesn’t. He’s the straw that stirs the drink, and he’s also half of the drink and most of the glass for good measure. He also picks up the check. He’s an All American point guard true college superstar, there are no alternatives or substitutions.

 

[SmellyCat]

It's like saying, "Purdue has no plan if Edey goes down." Well, no kidding. If the best player in the country can't play, that kind of makes a difference.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

It's like saying, "Purdue has no plan if Edey goes down." Well, no kidding. If the best player in the country can't play, that kind of makes a difference.

Perhaps you should re-read my comment, which was about using Hunger at the 4 to cover up for the potential loss of Martinelli, Barnhizer, Langborg or Berry.

I mentioned that we don't have a backup plan for Buie because I was pretty sure somebody would scream if I didn't separate him from that group. And you proved me right!

 

[TheC]

Perhaps you should re-read my comment, which was about using Hunger at the 4 to cover up for the potential loss of Martinelli, Barnhizer, Langborg or Berry.

I mentioned that we don't have a backup plan for Buie because I was pretty sure somebody would scream if I didn't separate him from that group. And you proved me right!

We don't have a backup plan for Buie if he were to get hurt. The backup plan in games to buy him rest is rotate over Langborg or Brooks to handle the point.

If any of our top 5 guards/wings gets hurt, we are in deep trouble. Though I feel like Collins doesn't play his young guys until his hand is forced. He played Martinelli later in the year last season as guys were out with illness I think and his top frosh Hunger was lost to injury. Turned out Martinelli was serviceable as a frosh. The most famous example is Pardon his freshman year.

I think young guys struggle when they get in for limited moments as the pressure gets to them, but if the coach is forced to stick with them, the player can begin to settle down a bit and then we see what we've got. I don't think Clayton has really gotten enough run to settle in and get over his early mistakes. But, I also don't think we can afford for him to learn on the job anymore unless we have no choice.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

No team has a backup plan for a player like Buie, and NU certainly doesn’t. He’s the straw that stirs the drink, and he’s also half of the drink and most of the glass for good measure. He also picks up the check. He’s an All American point guard true college superstar, there are no alternatives or substitutions.

Sure seems as if Illinois did when their true college superstar left the lineup.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Sure seems as if Illinois did when their true college superstar left the lineup.

Not a terrible point, but Illinois didn’t try to replace Shannon, they just had everybody else in their very deep cast take on a little bit more each. Recreation in the aggregate! There are a small handful of elite teams who have enough talent to fill the gap left by a true star player that way. NU… isn’t one of them.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

Not a terrible point...

High praise indeed.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

High praise indeed.

I started writing just jumping in to my counterpoint but felt it was more fair and positive to acknowledge your totally reasonable point about the Illini first.

 

[NUCat320]

We don't have a backup plan for Buie if he were to get hurt. The backup plan in games to buy him rest is rotate over Langborg or Brooks to handle the point.

If any of our top 5 guards/wings gets hurt, we are in deep trouble. Though I feel like Collins doesn't play his young guys until his hand is forced. He played Martinelli later in the year last season as guys were out with illness I think and his top frosh Hunger was lost to injury. Turned out Martinelli was serviceable as a frosh. The most famous example is Pardon his freshman year.

I think young guys struggle when they get in for limited moments as the pressure gets to them, but if the coach is forced to stick with them, the player can begin to settle down a bit and then we see what we've got. I don't think Clayton has really gotten enough run to settle in and get over his early mistakes. But, I also don't think we can afford for him to learn on the job anymore unless we have no choice.

Boo is getting 35mpg, which seems about the right number. He gets a short break midway through the first half, and then in the second half depending on game flow.

He is a uniquely talented superstar who can moderate his effort as needed, knowing that he’s getting the ball if it comes down to the last 2 minutes.

Some combination of “the other rotation guys” makes more sense than two short spurts a game if Clayton hasn’t earned his way into the rotation.

I did not watch last night’s game through the final buzzer, but it seems like Boo could have gotten the last four minutes off.

 

[GatoLouco]

We don't have a backup plan for Buie if he were to get hurt. The backup plan in games to buy him rest is rotate over Langborg or Brooks to handle the point.

If any of our top 5 guards/wings gets hurt, we are in deep trouble. Though I feel like Collins doesn't play his young guys until his hand is forced. He played Martinelli later in the year last season as guys were out with illness I think and his top frosh Hunger was lost to injury. Turned out Martinelli was serviceable as a frosh. The most famous example is Pardon his freshman year.

I think young guys struggle when they get in for limited moments as the pressure gets to them, but if the coach is forced to stick with them, the player can begin to settle down a bit and then we see what we've got. I don't think Clayton has really gotten enough run to settle in and get over his early mistakes. But, I also don't think we can afford for him to learn on the job anymore unless we have no choice.

It's not like I disagree with you but I believe the only player we can't, let's call it survive, without, is Buie. And I have news, chances are we will lose someone, for at least a few games. Probabilities tell us that.

In general terms we need 7 players with significant minutes in a rotation as a minimum. Beyond that rest is really really a problem. We have 8 right now. Preston, Nicholson and Martinelli started on the bench last night. So what happens if, say Langborg gets injured? Martinelli starts. Hunger plays minutes at 4, Preston plays more. It's not ideal, but we are no worse like that than 1/2 the conference is today. MN/IA/PSU/RU/UNL/MI/OSU/IU are not, at least not clearly, better than that version of us.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

We don't have a backup plan for Buie if he were to get hurt. The backup plan in games to buy him rest is rotate over Langborg or Brooks to handle the point.

If any of our top 5 guards/wings gets hurt, we are in deep trouble. Though I feel like Collins doesn't play his young guys until his hand is forced. He played Martinelli later in the year last season as guys were out with illness I think and his top frosh Hunger was lost to injury. Turned out Martinelli was serviceable as a frosh. The most famous example is Pardon his freshman year.

I think young guys struggle when they get in for limited moments as the pressure gets to them, but if the coach is forced to stick with them, the player can begin to settle down a bit and then we see what we've got. I don't think Clayton has really gotten enough run to settle in and get over his early mistakes. But, I also don't think we can afford for him to learn on the job anymore unless we have no choice.

Martinelli was widely spoken about as "Collins wants to redshirt him - thats why he isn't playing" (which made no sense to me) but then Hunger broke his foot and Roper got hurt and Collins had to play Martinelli - It elevated the team. With Barnhizer and Martinelli picking up Roper's minutes, NU went from 3-3 in the Big Ten to 11-5.

For me Collins saw the light last year and has been much more effective managing his roster since then.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

Martinelli was widely spoken about as "Collins wants to redshirt him - thats why he isn't playing" (which made no sense to me) but then Hunger broke his foot and Roper got hurt and Collins had to play Martinelli - It elevated the team. With Barnhizer and Martinelli picking up Roper's minutes, NU went from 3-3 in the Big Ten to 11-5.

For me Collins saw the light last year and has been much more effective managing his roster since then.

Martinelli this year >>> Martinelli last year.
Roper last year was better than a freshman Martinelli. You also had a 4th year Beran and an emerging Barnhizer. No sense in burning a shirt for limited min when you red shirt him and get 4 better years. He needed the off-season to build some strength and work on his footwork. He would have benefited greatly from a red shirt. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t able to give good minutes. He is a much better player this year and I’d take another year of older Martinelli over his 10ish min a game and 2.6 ppg as a freshman. This is not saying he wasn’t valuable last year just he provides more value this year and hopefully over the next 2 years to the point you say at the end man I wish he had one more year.

Same with Pardon, having an extra year of junior or senior level Pardon would have been awesome. Especially when there where two seniors in front of him his freshman year. Injuries often change things and Barkley and Strauss are getting redshirted barring injury. Could have a couple contributors on the bench but with the experience and skill at the 1-4 right now there is not a ton of minutes to go around.

NU is a developmental basketball program. Its goal is to get old and stay old. Having good 5th year seniors can help a lot with that. Redshirting is a luxury provided by a good experienced roster.

 

[PURPLECAT88]

I did not watch last night’s game through the final buzzer, but it seems like Boo could have gotten the last four minutes off.

As a guy with deep scars from 40 years of watching NU basketball, this just makes me want to scream "Nooooooooo" like the guy who spills grape juice in a Bounty commercial.

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

Martinelli this year >>> Martinelli last year.
Roper last year was better than a freshman Martinelli. You also had a 4th year Beran and an emerging Barnhizer. No sense in burning a shirt for limited min when you red shirt him and get 4 better years. He needed the off-season to build some strength and work on his footwork. He would have benefited greatly from a red shirt. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t able to give good minutes. He is a much better player this year and I’d take another year of older Martinelli over his 10ish min a game and 2.6 ppg as a freshman. This is not saying he wasn’t valuable last year just he provides more value this year and hopefully over the next 2 years to the point you say at the end man I wish he had one more year.

Same with Pardon, having an extra year of junior or senior level Pardon would have been awesome. Especially when there where two seniors in front of him his freshman year. Injuries often change things and Barkley and Strauss are getting redshirted barring injury. Could have a couple contributors on the bench but with the experience and skill at the 1-4 right now there is not a ton of minutes to go around.

NU is a developmental basketball program. Its goal is to get old and stay old. Having good 5th year seniors can help a lot with that. Redshirting is a luxury provided by a good experienced roster.

I think the times have probably changed on the value of the redshirt season. NU / Collins runs the risk of getting 3 years out of a player, who then graduates (getting that NU degree) and transfers for his last (and best) season.

In the past, the transfer rules protected a team from making a bad investment in an impatient player. Now, a guy can come in, get some experience, build himself up physically, maybe sit a redshirt season, maybe play one season and boom he's gone, playing somewhere where the grass (or money) is greener.

That should encourage coaches to play capable freshmen right away - to keep them around.
NU does have one advantage there - the diploma - but that didn't keep Roper in Evanston, so it varies with the player.
Unfortunately, not every recruit is a gem, so you're going to have a couple guys who can't play... and the worst of those guys have no incentive to move on...

And NU, because of university rules, can't bring in undergrad transfers with more than 2 years of college credits.
So Collins can focus on a) under-recruited late bloomers who have played one season at a lesser program and b) grad transfers who have good college academic records.

Thats exactly what he did this past offseason.

To me, you play for this season. If you think a guy can contribute later this year, you get him minutes.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Martinelli this year >>> Martinelli last year.
Roper last year was better than a freshman Martinelli. You also had a 4th year Beran and an emerging Barnhizer. No sense in burning a shirt for limited min when you red shirt him and get 4 better years. He needed the off-season to build some strength and work on his footwork. He would have benefited greatly from a red shirt. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t able to give good minutes. He is a much better player this year and I’d take another year of older Martinelli over his 10ish min a game and 2.6 ppg as a freshman. This is not saying he wasn’t valuable last year just he provides more value this year and hopefully over the next 2 years to the point you say at the end man I wish he had one more year.

Same with Pardon, having an extra year of junior or senior level Pardon would have been awesome. Especially when there where two seniors in front of him his freshman year. Injuries often change things and Barkley and Strauss are getting redshirted barring injury. Could have a couple contributors on the bench but with the experience and skill at the 1-4 right now there is not a ton of minutes to go around.

NU is a developmental basketball program. Its goal is to get old and stay old. Having good 5th year seniors can help a lot with that. Redshirting is a luxury provided by a good experienced roster.

This. Martinelli has developed really nicely, it’s fun to see his game continue to grow. Of course, who is to say his opportunity to play last year didn’t help this. Either way, he’s improved a lot, good young player! Great bench player on this team.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

I think the times have probably changed on the value of the redshirt season. NU / Collins runs the risk of getting 3 years out of a player, who then graduates (getting that NU degree) and transfers for his last (and best) season.

In the past, the transfer rules protected a team from making a bad investment in an impatient player. Now, a guy can come in, get some experience, build himself up physically, maybe sit a redshirt season, maybe play one season and boom he's gone, playing somewhere where the grass (or money) is greener.

That should encourage coaches to play capable freshmen right away - to keep them around.
NU does have one advantage there - the diploma - but that didn't keep Roper in Evanston, so it varies with the player.
Unfortunately, not every recruit is a gem, so you're going to have a couple guys who can't play... and the worst of those guys have no incentive to move on...

And NU, because of university rules, can't bring in undergrad transfers with more than 2 years of college credits.
So Collins can focus on a) under-recruited late bloomers who have played one season at a lesser program and b) grad transfers who have good college academic records.

Thats exactly what he did this past offseason.

To me, you play for this season. If you think a guy can contribute later this year, you get him minutes.

He wasn’t going to contribute if Roper stayed healthy. You had an experienced Roper, Senior Beran, and an emerging Barnhizer ahead of him on the depth chart. So it’s still playing for this season.

I get the idea of transferring out issue but you have to play for this season and not worry about players transferring out due to a redshirt. Especially an under recruited Martinelli. If Strauss or Barkley transfer out after this season maybe you think about changing that approach.

I think Collin’s has no issue playing the freshman he thinks can contribute. Isaiah Brown saw action during the 1st tourney season. Hunger I believe was planned to get minutes last season until the injury. Especially given the lack of a scoring option inside. MN got better with each game and I think that limited some minutes for Hunger pre injury. Clayton was the plan to spell Buie during his brief rests but some defensive miscues and not taking care of the basketball got him glued to the bench. With a good old roster there’s only so many min to go around.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

This. Martinelli has developed really nicely, it’s fun to see his game continue to grow. Of course, who is to say his opportunity to play last year didn’t help this. Either way, he’s improved a lot, good young player! Great bench player on this team.

Development during the season is mostly mental and Martinelli stepped into the bright lights the 1st season and did not back down. So I don’t know that he needed it. I think the ability to hit weights hard and practice hard during the season due to not having to be game ready would have provided more progression. Most skill, athleticism, and system progression is achieved by working hard in the offseason. That being said there is no substitute for game experience but ideal you work those kinks out in non conference play.

 

[TheC]

I started writing just jumping in to my counterpoint but felt it was more fair and positive to acknowledge your totally reasonable point about the Illini first.

Yeah... see.... we don't do that around here. We just all disagree! Now fall in line!!

 

[AdamOnFirst]

Development during the season is mostly mental and Martinelli stepped into the bright lights the 1st season and did not back down. So I don’t know that he needed it. I think the ability to hit weights hard and practice hard during the season due to not having to be game ready would have provided more progression. Most skill, athleticism, and system progression is achieved by working hard in the offseason. That being said there is no substitute for game experience but ideal you work those kinks out in non conference play.

Hard to say, he's not just bigger and stronger with more moves this year, he also sees the game on both sides of the court better. He's not a bad passer and defensively his understanding has improved. Across all sports sometimes a little taste of live fire at the start of a career helps guide and improve the upcoming offseason development.

Impossible to know for sure. I'm just enjoying seeing him come into the game and getting excited about the thigns he does. In addition to being a good bench player who provides some little spark things, he's also just kinda fun to watch.

 

[Catreporter]

You could say we have already experienced a key injury with Barnhiser having his shooting hand wrapped for five or six games, He was still playing but not the same guy we saw vs. Purdue and again last night against MSU.

 

[TheC]

Martinelli this year >>> Martinelli last year.
Roper last year was better than a freshman Martinelli. You also had a 4th year Beran and an emerging Barnhizer. No sense in burning a shirt for limited min when you red shirt him and get 4 better years. He needed the off-season to build some strength and work on his footwork. He would have benefited greatly from a red shirt. Doesn’t mean he wasn’t able to give good minutes. He is a much better player this year and I’d take another year of older Martinelli over his 10ish min a game and 2.6 ppg as a freshman. This is not saying he wasn’t valuable last year just he provides more value this year and hopefully over the next 2 years to the point you say at the end man I wish he had one more year.

Same with Pardon, having an extra year of junior or senior level Pardon would have been awesome. Especially when there where two seniors in front of him his freshman year. Injuries often change things and Barkley and Strauss are getting redshirted barring injury. Could have a couple contributors on the bench but with the experience and skill at the 1-4 right now there is not a ton of minutes to go around.

NU is a developmental basketball program. Its goal is to get old and stay old. Having good 5th year seniors can help a lot with that. Redshirting is a luxury provided by a good experienced roster.

The point I was making is that some guys never see the floor here as freshman and one might make the assumption that they are just not close to ready yet. But, when CCC's hand is forced, one of those guys may get pushed out into the limelight and it turns out they aren't so far off. Martinelli was that kind of revelation for me last year. While Clayton has had his chances, I still think he might show us more if suddenly he were forced to play more because, god forbid, we lost one of our guards.

Let's just hope we never find out this season.

 

[AdamOnFirst]

The point I was making is that some guys never see the floor here as freshman and one might make the assumption that they are just not close to ready yet. But, when CCC's hand is forced, one of those guys may get pushed out into the limelight and it turns out they aren't so far off. Martinelli was that kind of revelation for me last year. While Clayton has had his chances, I still think he might show us more if suddenly he were forced to play more because, god forbid, we lost one of our guards.

Let's just hope we never find out this season.

Maybe we'll see him more in the last few weeks of the season, just like Barnheiser and Martinelli clearly developed during the year and grew in importance on the roster in the last third of the year.

 

[ballerog711]

So I cheer for the little guy, so Clayton and Preston are my guys this year. (Last year was Nick and Brooks)

Preston give the team a physical big that will bang a body on defense. Limited on the offensive end and that might be ok when Boo and the other guards have things going. Reality is his playing time seems to be gone unless MN gets jn foul trouble.

Clayton has an issue on defense helping when he doesn't have to. Not a bad thing, but leaves a player open. Illinios game seems to have solved the issue getting the ball to the post. Also had a nice straight line drive to the basket. Missed a couple of weeks jn pre season with that lower body injury. Might be this year's Martenelii. Hopefully, if he plays it is because of foul trouble and not jnjury to one of the guards.

Seems Collins will only use these guys.when he has too.

Izzo, threw a couple of his guys out there yesterday to get experience. But he knows his team is tourney bound and has that luxury.

 

[Gatabowl]

How right you are!

I don't love his iso plays, but I can't argue with the results overall. I just like the way NU plays when he's NOT doing it - he definitely has to do it when Berry, etc. aren't shooting well.

The hell? Come next season, I promise you that you’ll pine for a fearless PG who goes killer crossover to floater at will.