Free throws

[Deeringfish]

I was surprised when the announcer for the DePaul game said that big Matt's free-throw % was under 50%. When I was a kid (12 years old) I used to make about 80% of my free throws by shooting underhand from between my knees. I could hardly reach the rim the conventional way, but a lot of the kids in the neighborhood shot underhanded. As I got older and stronger I switched to the conventional method mostly because I was embarrassed to shoot underhanded. I never was a accurate though.

Has any one in college or the pros ever shot free throws underhanded? I think it would be worth a try especially for bigs like Matt.

 

[SmellyCat]

Rick Barry was famous for it. Plus the dude from Hoosiers.

I was about a 40% free-throw shooter many years ago when I tried to keep track. To me, an NCAA player (who presumably practices free-throw shooting way more than I ever did) barely clearing 40% is pretty hard to do. I know he made eight free throws in a game a few weeks ago, but otherwise Nicholson has been pretty bad from the line this year. I worry that a "hack-a-Matt" strategy could work for the other team.

 

[techtim72]

I don't think you would want Matt as your dentist. Big hands and not much touch.

 

[docrugby1]

Rick Barry had a career FT % of 90%, shooting underhand

Wilt Chamberlain shot underhanded also.
Dave Gambee of the Syracuse Nationals , Paul Arizin, Bob Cousy and possibly Clyde Lovellette also did

 

[loyolacat]

Sports Illustrated did an article on shooting underhanded and proved with physics it was more effective.

 

[Catreporter]

His stroke was awful to start the year( (had two straight airballs in EIU game, and I think and was 0-for-his first 6 this year) but it has improved. Too late to do anything about it this season. BTW, Illini beat Mizzu by 3, making 23 of 24 from the line while the Tigers missed 9 or 10 of theirs. The danger of his foul shooting problens really raises its head at the end of close games when you want him in there especially for defense.

 

[Rebel II]

I was surprised when the announcer for the DePaul game said that big Matt's free-throw % was under 50%. When I was a kid (12 years old) I used to make about 80% of my free throws by shooting underhand from between my knees. I could hardly reach the rim the conventional way, but a lot of the kids in the neighborhood shot underhanded. As I got older and stronger I switched to the conventional method mostly because I was embarrassed to shoot underhanded. I never was a accurate though.

Has any one in college or the pros ever shot free throws underhanded? I think it would be worth a try especially for bigs like Matt.

Ever heard of Rick Barry or Wilt Chamberlain?

 

[No Chores]

Sports Illustrated did an article on shooting underhanded and proved with physics it was more effective.

That's because the ball lands much more softly if it hits either rim. The best stroke on the current team belongs to Leach, which is why he was chosen to take the free throws when the flagrant foul was called on Brooks. He made all four I believe.

 

[docrugby1]

That's because the ball lands much more softly if it hits either rim. The best stroke on the current team belongs to Leach, which is why he was chosen to take the free throws when the flagrant foul was called on Brooks. He made all four I believe.

Brooks was fouled while shooting, the flagrant foul was called but Leach shot all 4 free throws . I heard the ref say it was a dead ball flagrant but the foul occurred while Brooks was shooting-why 4 for Leach rather than 2 for Brooks, 2 for Leach plus the ball?

 

[Deeringfish]

Brooks was fouled while shooting, the flagrant foul was called but Leach shot all 4 free throws . I heard the ref say it was a dead ball flagrant but the foul occurred while Brooks was shooting-why 4 for Leach rather than 2 for Brooks, 2 for Leach plus the ball?

I wondered the same thing, Doc.

 

[SmellyCat]

Me too. I don’t understand why it was called “dead ball”.

Also the one Illinois miss today was I believe the last one and gave Mizzou a chance to tie.

 

[winnetkat]

Me too. I don’t understand why it was called “dead ball”.

Also the one Illinois miss today was I believe the last one and gave Mizzou a chance to tie.

There was a foul on Leach while (or right before) passing to BB coming down the lane at which point the whistle blew. After that (now a dead ball) there was the flagrant foul on BB's layup.

 

[zbag51]

There was a foul on Leach while (or right before) passing to BB coming down the lane at which point the whistle blew. After that (now a dead ball) there was the flagrant foul on BB's layup.

I was wondering that, too, thanks

 

[MC_Cat]

His stroke was awful to start the year( (had two straight airballs in EIU game, and I think and was 0-for-his first 6 this year) but it has improved. Too late to do anything about it this season. BTW, Illini beat Mizzu by 3, making 23 of 24 from the line while the Tigers missed 9 or 10 of theirs. The danger of his foul shooting problens really raises its head at the end of close games when you want him in there especially for defense.

What's remarkable is MN has shown the ability to make really clutch FT's over the years down the stretch. It's earlier in games when he's at his worst. Maybe he needs psychotherapy to pretend every FT is a one-and-one with the game depending on it.

 

[phatcat]

Maybe he needs psychotherapy to pretend every FT is a one-and-one with the game depending on it.

The thing is, in any close game, the game DOES depend on it, no matter when it occurs. And to me, missing free throws is like FG kickers missing 35 yard FGs. I'm a long time fan of Big Matty, but his inability to generate any offense, even on gimmies from the line, is inexcusable. Does he shoot 200 FTs a day in the off-season? If not, why not?

 

[hdhntr1]

I was surprised when the announcer for the DePaul game said that big Matt's free-throw % was under 50%. When I was a kid (12 years old) I used to make about 80% of my free throws by shooting underhand from between my knees. I could hardly reach the rim the conventional way, but a lot of the kids in the neighborhood shot underhanded. As I got older and stronger I switched to the conventional method mostly because I was embarrassed to shoot underhanded. I never was a accurate though.

Has any one in college or the pros ever shot free throws underhanded? I think it would be worth a try especially for bigs like Matt.

I cannot remember it in a while. I believe Wilt Chamberlain did. Some others as well. In grade school I even tried it as I was not very coordinated and had not developed the strength for the normal shot. But I quit in about 5th grade and played FB and wrestled in HS and never looked back at BB. I think that every one at a high level shies away from it because it is somewhat unorthodox and guys are embarrassed to try it even if it might be effective for them, Plus not sure anyone really teaches it these days. But if it would turn Big Matt from a 40% guy to 70% it would make sense.

Another guy whose FT form is questionable for a different reason is Martinelli. Ever notice that he always jumps when he is shooting a FT? It would seem that that is a little questionable because it would be harder to be reproducible

 

[hdhntr1]

Brooks was fouled while shooting, the flagrant foul was called but Leach shot all 4 free throws . I heard the ref say it was a dead ball flagrant but the foul occurred while Brooks was shooting-why 4 for Leach rather than 2 for Brooks, 2 for Leach plus the ball?

I thought it was actually two separate fouls, The original foul was outside lo Leach while he was passing and then the flagrant was on the action out of bounds against Brooks after the play was over. I believe since play would have been stopped, the foul underneath was called a technical (two and the ball) Did not really see a replay. I have it recorded and will try to look at it

 

[hdhntr1]

There was a foul on Leach while (or right before) passing to BB coming down the lane at which point the whistle blew. After that (now a dead ball) there was the flagrant foul on BB's layup.

And normally the first foul would have led to stopping play and would have been all that was called We were in double bonus at the time so that would have been two shots. Leach was the one fouled on the outside. But the foul underneath was egregious and dangerous and after the play would have been stopped by the first foul so a technical foul called instead (2 shots and the ball) If during the play probably would have been flagrant 1 but it was after the first foul so play would have been stopped by first foul so technical was called instead

 

[hdhntr1]

I thought it was actually two separate fouls, The original foul was outside lo Leach while he was passing and then the flagrant was on the action out of bounds against Brooks after the play was over. I believe since play would have been stopped, the foul underneath was called a technical (two and the ball) Did not really see a replay. I have it recorded and will try to look at it

I watched the replay. The foul on Brooks was a dead ball foul which means play would have been stopped because of the first foul on Leach, As a dead ball foul I believe it was a technical. They (the announcers Webber and not sure) never really said anything about the first foul but the indication was that it was called, For the dead ball foul, defender grabbed Brooks arm when he was on the way up and made no play for the ball (dangerous situation) so it would have been a flagrant 1 but since play was technically stopped with the first call they called a dead ball foul. Since we were in the double bonus, the first was two shots and since the second was basically a technical anyone on the floor could shoot it hence Leach shot 4 FTs

 

[NUera]

Has any one in college or the pros ever shot free throws underhanded? I think it would be worth a try especially for bigs like Matt.

This topic comes up every now and then. It's proven that it works, but few are manly man enough to risk the ridicule. (Rick Barry famously offered to help Shaq, who said he'd rather miss the shots.) There was a guy in the NBA I can think of who did it a few years back, but he's out of the league now. And Canyon Barry, Rick's youngest son (Rick was ~50 when he was born), used the approach when he played for Florida not that long ago. Just looked it up and he shot 88% during his one year at UF (2017).

 

[NUCat320]

He could also consider banking it in. That’s how it’s done in the KBL.

A Journey To Korea In Search Of The Bank-Shot Free Throw | Defector

One weekend afternoon, in early November, my mother and I scurried through a bustling pedestrian plaza ringed with food trucks in southeast Seoul, eager to get to our first-ever Korean Basketball League game. Screeching into the will-call line, we waited briefly, if impatiently, beneath a blue...

defector.com

 

[PurpleWhiteBoy]

To my untrained eye it looks like Big Matt holds the ball too much in his palm, rather than controlling it mainly with his fingers.
He gets very little spin on his "throws" which vaguely resemble catapults.

If you watch Leach, he gets a lot of spin.

 

[techtim72]

The ball should never touch the palm when shooting. Only the fingers. Big guys typically have trouble with the angle of the ball to the basket. Too flat. It is a tougher shot for them. For Matt it may be like shooting a soccer ball for the rest of us. A tendency to over muscle the ball as it feels so light.

 

[NURoseBowl]

I cannot remember it in a while. I believe Wilt Chamberlain did. Some others as well. In grade school I even tried it as I was not very coordinated and had not developed the strength for the normal shot. But I quit in about 5th grade and played FB and wrestled in HS and never looked back at BB. I think that every one at a high level shies away from it because it is somewhat unorthodox and guys are embarrassed to try it even if it might be effective for them, Plus not sure anyone really teaches it these days. But if it would turn Big Matt from a 40% guy to 70% it would make sense.

Another guy whose FT form is questionable for a different reason is Martinelli. Ever notice that he always jumps when he is shooting a FT? It would seem that that is a little questionable because it would be harder to be reproducible

Some of you guys - looking at you, Docrugby - might correct me on this, but I seem to remember a small forward named Don Kojis, who as I recall played for the old KC-Omaha Kings and shot jumpers for all his free throws . . . am I misremembering? 🤔

 

[EagerFan]

The thing I see when I watch Matt shoot free throws is that he doesn't have a smooth motion with a consistent release.

He sorta crouches, moves into a shooting motion, but hitches/pauses and tosses the shot at what seems like a random point towards the end of the process, so the ball can go just about anywhere because the shot is really only that last second push. There's no real stroke.

Nick has the same thing at the other end. His shot can really be altered by how high he jumps and it just seems really awkward. No real stroke.

 

[phatcat]

I believe Wilt Chamberlain did

He did for a while. Later in his career, he stood to the far left of the free throw circle and 1-2 feet back, and shot the normal way.

 

[Smolmania]

He did for a while. Later in his career, he stood to the far left of the free throw circle and 1-2 feet back, and shot the normal way.

If by "normal" you mean clanking the ball off the rim 45-48% of the time, then yes, "normal." As great a player as he was, the Big Dipper was not a good free throw shooter. He did, however, make 28 of 32 in his historic 100 point effort in Hershey, PA against the Knicks...

 

[phatcat]

If by "normal" you mean clanking the ball off the rim 45-48% of the time, then yes, "normal." As great a player as he was, the Big Dipper was not a good free throw shooter. He did, however, make 28 of 32 in his historic 100 point effort in Hershey, PA against the Knicks...

Yeah I just mean not underhanded

 

[hdhntr1]

The thing I see when I watch Matt shoot free throws is that he doesn't have a smooth motion with a consistent release.

He sorta crouches, moves into a shooting motion, but hitches/pauses and tosses the shot at what seems like a random point towards the end of the process, so the ball can go just about anywhere because the shot is really only that last second push. There's no real stroke.

Nick has the same thing at the other end. His shot can really be altered by how high he jumps and it just seems really awkward. No real stroke.

Just think. If he is half an inch high or low on that jump, pretty hard to get any consistency and that is pretty likely to happen as he gets tired during the game, So hard to make it consistent and reproducible

 

[NVAcat]

Some of you guys - looking at you, Docrugby - might correct me on this, but I seem to remember a small forward named Don Kojis, who as I recall played for the old KC-Omaha Kings and shot jumpers for all his free throws . . . am I misremembering? 🤔

Hal Greer of the 76ers as I recall, shot jumpers from the foul line and hit a high percentage.

The underhand method definitely works quite well even for foul shooters who are bad with the conventional one handed shot. Despite the fact that it is a successful technique, pretty much no one is willing to use the underhand shot.

There were as recall studies showing that standing a bit to the left, for the conventional one handed shot, versus dead straight on at the basket was more accurate/effevtive.

 

[FeralFelidae]

He did for a while. Later in his career, he stood to the far left of the free throw circle and 1-2 feet back, and shot the normal way.

Wilt shot underhand when he had the 100-point game and his season with his highest FT percentage.

 

[EagerFan]

Just think. If he is half an inch high or low on that jump, pretty hard to get any consistency and that is pretty likely to happen as he gets tired during the game, So hard to make it consistent and reproducible

Exactly