How good can this offense be if Thorson becomes Kafka or Persa?

[BigNUFan51]

Think about how much Mike Kafka improved from his RS Freshman year to his senior year as a backup sitting behind CJ. Is it unreasonable to think we could get senior level Kafka play from Thorson as a junior given all the experience he now has?

Some of you probably forget that Kafka and Persa ran McCalls offense extremely well without much of a running game (Arby Fields, Scott Cocannon, Arby Fields, Adonis Smith, Mike Trumpy)... Imagine what those guys would have done with Justin Jackson in the backfield?

Its a nice thought, but of course instead of taking the next step Thorson could potentially go backwards from his sophomore year just like Trevor Siemian... Let's hope not.

 

[DaCat]

If Thorson stays healthy he'll break a lot of records and could turn the GOAT discussion into a 2 man debate.

 

[Katatonic]

Its a nice thought, but of course instead of taking the next step Thorson could potentially go backwards from his sophomore year just like Trevor Siemian... Let's hope not.

It's not so much Siemian having gone backwards as it was the talent surrounding Siemian on offense having gone backwards due to injury and whatnot.

If Trevor had Carr and a non-frosh JJtBC (and stayed healthy - meaning no high ankle sprain), would have seen one of the best NU offenses.

 

[Deeringfish]

QBs have a very good record of improvement or development, whatever you call it under Mick McCall at NU. Thorson made huge statistical improvement from 2015-16. I thought he looked better but I'm no expert I only have the numbers to show. AC's contribution cannot be ignored, I think he is a special human being in a variety of ways and transformed himself into a great WR.
Having said that, If Thorson's numbers can show just a 10 % improvement across the board, each of the next two years, those will be some pretty good numbers.

 

[docrugby1]

I recently watched the Pinstripe Bowl game. Have there been any reports of a Thorson injury or shoulder problems ?

 

[Aging Booster]

If Thorson stays healthy he'll break a lot of records and could turn the GOAT discussion into a 2 man debate.

I too think that Thorson could be better than all of them and expect a huge year from him this year. We just need the OL to step up - I think the WR will be OK. We should win the west this year.

 

[stpaulcat]

I would just hope that Thorson becomes Thorson. And he appears well on his way to doing that. Two more years?

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Very, assuming we can block anyone.

 

[scru]

I too think that Thorson could be better than all of them and expect a huge year from him this year. We just need the OL to step up - I think the WR will be OK. We should win the west this year.

Defense wins championships, and ours has a number of question marks right now. I fully expect the offense to do it's part. I'm a bit concerned about our front 7 on D.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Defense wins championships, and ours has a number of question marks right now. I fully expect the offense to do it's part. I'm a bit concerned about our front 7 on D.

It does?

 

[scru]

It does?

I think this is sarcasm, but I'll be drawn in...

MLB, pass rush from DEs, OLBs are the question marks for me right now.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I think this is sarcasm, but I'll be drawn in...

MLB, pass rush from DEs, OLBs are the question marks for me right now.

I sincerely believe the pieces are in place to have a pretty darn good defense in 2017. In order:

While it clearly would have been better to have Walker in the middle, I've been hearing very good things about Fox and (especially) Fisher. DT should be a strength as well (Lancaster and Thompson are legitimate NFL prospects with Wyatt, Miller, and Saunders providing pretty solid depth), taking some of the pressure off the LBs.

While we lose Odenigbo as a pass-rush specialist, here's hoping that Washington and Gaziano can pick up a bit of the slack; I also think the strength of the secondary could/should allow Hank to be more exotic with his blitz packages if he needs to manufacture QB pressure.

Hall should be pretty good at OLB and Walsh was at least serviceable last year. If Long can get up to speed during spring practices and fall ball, there's no physical reason he couldn't be a difference-maker at OLB. Plus, I've heard Auston Anderson is a potential instant-impact LB.

 

[scru]

I sincerely believe the pieces are in place to have a pretty darn good defense in 2017. In order:

While it clearly would have been better to have Walker in the middle, I've been hearing very good things about Fox and (especially) Fisher. DT should be a strength as well (Lancaster and Thompson are legitimate NFL prospects with Wyatt, Miller, and Saunders providing pretty solid depth), taking some of the pressure off the LBs.

While we lose Odenigbo as a pass-rush specialist, here's hoping that Washington and Gaziano can pick up a bit of the slack; I also think the strength of the secondary could/should allow Hank to be more exotic with his blitz packages if he needs to manufacture QB pressure.

Hall should be pretty good at OLB and Walsh was at least serviceable last year. If Long can get up to speed during spring practices and fall ball, there's no physical reason he couldn't be a difference-maker at OLB. Plus, I've heard Auston Anderson is a potential instant-impact LB.

I hear you on all points, just need to see it come together on the field. Until then, they're question marks in my book. I expect you'll read the same in most preseason rags.

 

[TheC]

I sincerely believe the pieces are in place to have a pretty darn good defense in 2017. In order:

While it clearly would have been better to have Walker in the middle, I've been hearing very good things about Fox and (especially) Fisher. DT should be a strength as well (Lancaster and Thompson are legitimate NFL prospects with Wyatt, Miller, and Saunders providing pretty solid depth), taking some of the pressure off the LBs.

While we lose Odenigbo as a pass-rush specialist, here's hoping that Washington and Gaziano can pick up a bit of the slack; I also think the strength of the secondary could/should allow Hank to be more exotic with his blitz packages if he needs to manufacture QB pressure.

Hall should be pretty good at OLB and Walsh was at least serviceable last year. If Long can get up to speed during spring practices and fall ball, there's no physical reason he couldn't be a difference-maker at OLB. Plus, I've heard Auston Anderson is a potential instant-impact LB.

I think you're analysis is solid here, but even the way you wrote it includes some question marks, which is all that scru was saying I think. It could be a very good defense, if most of those questions get answered affirmatively.

 

[Turk]

Think about how much Mike Kafka improved from his RS Freshman year to his senior year as a backup sitting behind CJ. Is it unreasonable to think we could get senior level Kafka play from Thorson as a junior given all the experience he now has?

Some of you probably forget that Kafka and Persa ran McCalls offense extremely well without much of a running game (Arby Fields, Scott Cocannon, Arby Fields, Adonis Smith, Mike Trumpy)... Imagine what those guys would have done with Justin Jackson in the backfield?

Its a nice thought, but of course instead of taking the next step Thorson could potentially go backwards from his sophomore year just like Trevor Siemian... Let's hope not.

When I think of Thorson, the thought of Persa doesn't even come to mind. Nothing against Persa but I never saw the likes of Thorson before at NU. When I try to envision what Thorson may look like with more experience, I gotta think outside of NU and at other programs. I mean, the potential for our team is hard to envision if we restrict Thorson with a Persa template. Don't get me wrong, Persa had a helluva heart and willed passes and victories, but he didn't have near the potential that Thorson has.

Thorson has the cruddiest OL in front of him when compared from Basenez to Thorson although CJ's OL wasn't that great either. And Thorson did amazing last year, considering. He makes all of the throws and got more comfortable in the pocket last year. A natural progression, as a junior, will have him in line for National Honors.

I'm hoping he has a breakout game against PSU and I hope he stays his senior year. Don't just assume this stud will hang around. Jackson never would have had such a productive year if the Safety didn't have to account for Thorson.

 

[Deeringfish]

When I think of Thorson, the thought of Persa doesn't even come to mind. Nothing against Persa but I never saw the likes of Thorson before at NU. When I try to envision what Thorson may look like with more experience, I gotta think outside of NU and at other programs. I mean, the potential for our team is hard to envision if we restrict Thorson with a Persa template. Don't get me wrong, Persa had a helluva heart and willed passes and victories, but he didn't have near the potential that Thorson has.

Thorson has the cruddiest OL in front of him when compared from Basenez to Thorson although CJ's OL wasn't that great either. And Thorson did amazing last year, considering. He makes all of the throws and got more comfortable in the pocket last year. A natural progression, as a junior, will have him in line for National Honors.

I'm hoping he has a breakout game against PSU and I hope he stays his senior year. Don't just assume this stud will hang around. Jackson never would have had such a productive year if the Safety didn't have to account for Thorson.

Hi Turk, Welcome back.
I have to agree with you that Thorson and Persa are to very different types of QB in many ways not comparable.
I think the OP was more interested in considering the rate of improvement year to year and that if Thorson improved within the offense as much as previous QBs have, the more dynamic running game would really enhance that improvement resulting an incredibly dynamic offensive team. Persa was better than a 67% passer if I remember, maybe even 70% but he was a different kind of passer too.
Your point about the offensive line is the hard to measure factor. A truly great O Line will make anyone especially a RB look good and a bad one will make everyone look bad. Very few people, myself included, have the eye to know if it is the line that makes the man or the man that makes the line.

 

[Turk]

Hi Turk, Welcome back.
I have to agree with you that Thorson and Persa are to very different types of QB in many ways not comparable.
I think the OP was more interested in considering the rate of improvement year to year and that if Thorson improved within the offense as much as previous QBs have, the more dynamic running game would really enhance that improvement resulting an incredibly dynamic offensive team. Persa was better than a 67% passer if I remember, maybe even 70% but he was a different kind of passer too.
Your point about the offensive line is the hard to measure factor. A truly great O Line will make anyone especially a RB look good and a bad one will make everyone look bad. Very few people, myself included, have the eye to know if it is the line that makes the man or the man that makes the line.

Thanks Deeringfish,
The OL seemed to progress as the season went on but admittedly I didn't watch every game as my interest was moreso on other things during Saturdays, especially Saturday nights. Nuff said. It's tough being single.

But from what I heard, a player named Butler helped solidify the line and it also appeared that Thorson got more comfortable in the pocket, which would help the OL as well.
I certainly don't know as I hadn't the time to really watch the games last year, but I think our main focus is running the ball. It's our first option and second option, then pass is our 3rd option. With Thorson's arm, it makes sense. Sorta like Brady in the Michigan Offense [albeit a much better OL]. With Dickerson blocking/receiving, Thorson certainly has some outlets coming back. Jackson and Moten were good at receiving as well. I'm not a big fan of Vault as his route running never shakes anyone even though he is quick [Great on Kickoffs though]. Macan looked like he gained some confidence last year and seemed like a keeper. Bummer that Long was moved to defense as he was awesome blocking and catching on offense but I understand the move. Maybe one of the young guys step up, i.e., Lees, Fessler, Oregon transplant, etc. I wasn't a big fan of Olson so imo that spot will be improved and I gotta thing having the rest of the entire 7 deep along the line back means better communication; stronger; and more experienced.

I'm excited and I think we have to rely on our Defense but our offense is ought to be good enough. And, if Thorson made the same stride this year that he made between redshirt freshman and redshirt soph then we may contend for the west.

 

[Seattle_Cat]

Think about how much Mike Kafka improved from his RS Freshman year to his senior year as a backup sitting behind CJ. Is it unreasonable to think we could get senior level Kafka play from Thorson as a junior given all the experience he now has?

Some of you probably forget that Kafka and Persa ran McCalls offense extremely well without much of a running game (Arby Fields, Scott Cocannon, Arby Fields, Adonis Smith, Mike Trumpy)... Imagine what those guys would have done with Justin Jackson in the backfield?

Its a nice thought, but of course instead of taking the next step Thorson could potentially go backwards from his sophomore year just like Trevor Siemian... Let's hope not.

CT will never become Persa, but he can be a better Kafka. Persa was Houdini with a great arm.

 

[stpaulcat]

CT will never become Persa, but he can be a better Kafka. Persa was Houdini with a great arm.

Houdini who ultimately couldn't get the lock undone. His injury was a result of the way he played.

 

[ThatkidfromHolland]

Houdini who ultimately couldn't get the lock undone. His injury was a result of the way he played.

Didn't he hurt himself jumping after a play?

 

[stpaulcat]

Didn't he hurt himself jumping after a play?

He just all of sudden came up lame with a torn achilles, must have done something on the previous play, and likely from the stress he put his body under due to his playing style. He certainly didn't get the injury from just jumping around after the play.

 

[GlideCat]

Didn't he hurt himself jumping after a play?

I thought at the time we conjectured that his injury was due either to how hard he pushed his body in his incredibly intense personal fitness regimen or just a fluke thing that happens.

 

[Deeringfish]

I thought at the time we conjectured that his injury was due either to how hard he pushed his body in his incredibly intense personal fitness regimen or just a fluke thing that happens.

As I remember it. He was jumping up and down to see the result of a big play that went for a TD. I'm pretty sure they play was over.
We on the board speculated that his incredible training regiment took his muscle tissue beyond the slower to develop tendons. There is a sort of logic to that but I don't think that was ever official.

 

[Mr Wickerpark]

If Thorson stays healthy he'll break a lot of records and could turn the GOAT discussion into a 2 man debate.

I hope he doesnt break records even though he has potential. With a run first offense, i like the idea of having a 60% run rate with Jackson and moten. If we get behind, Thorson has proven he has the skillset to bring us back. McCall can mix and match with this skill player skillset.

 

[Katatonic]

CT will never become Persa, but he can be a better Kafka. Persa was Houdini with a great arm.

Well, I'm not going to say that Thorson can't ever develop the passing on the run and pass rush evading skills that Persa exhibited, but even if Thorson improves in those areas, don't think it likely that he'll attain the same level as Persa.

Now, if Thorson can develop in those areas to reach the level that Siemian showed in the narrow window (between the 4th Q of the MOON game and his season-ending injury), then Thorson will have become one heck of a weapon at QB (being bigger, stronger and faster than Siemian).

 

[d'son d]

Thorson is not another "anything" just Thorson, as mentioned above. His potential is enormous (isn't that the concept used for all those who don't meet their potential?) with an adequate line in front and sticky fingered receivers beyond that...and multiple clones of JJTBC behind. While Persa had a torn Achilles that was from a non-contact maneuver, I have the remembrance of either a bad tackle or trip prior to the injury which may have contributed to it...maybe not. But all said , the season looks bright with a year's experience for the returnees and, the history of such a lousy start behind them. I even envision a few wrinkles in McCall's offense this year.

 

[GlideCat]

I hope he doesnt break records even though he has potential. With a run first offense, i like the idea of having a 60% run rate with Jackson and moten. If we get behind, Thorson has proven he has the skillset to bring us back. McCall can mix and match with this skill player skillset.

I am more the reverse of this. I would like to see us use a diverse wide open offense to get ahead early and then use Jackson and Moten to control the ball in the second half and burn the clock. I know this sounds like "taking the foot off the pedal." But, with a solid and deep defense that does not wear out and a running offense that consistently moves the chains and wears down an opponent's defense, this game plan can be a thing of beauty.

Give us improvement along the O line, a couple of receivers to step up, and a little seasoning at linebacker and we may have all of the parts needed to utilize this game plan effectively.

 

[HawkCat]

He certainly didn't get the injury from just jumping around after the play.

It certainly looked like that. Seemed like a fluke. I don't think it had anything to do with his playing style.

 

[Deeringfish]

It certainly looked like that. Seemed like a fluke. I don't think it had anything to do with his playing style.

I thought it looked like that too. Have always wondered if in all of his dedicated training (he won the iron something award in the weight room) it was possible that his soft tissue development got so far ahead of his tendon (harder tissue) development that he was simply too strong for his own good.
I don't even know if that is possible but seems to me mussel mass could grow faster than tendons based on blood supply.

 

[GlideCat]

It certainly looked like that. Seemed like a fluke. I don't think it had anything to do with his playing style.

They replayed it over and over. He seemed fine jumping up and down and suddenly he wasn't. That was a tough day for our program. Major impact on that and the next season. But that does not change the fact that he was probably the single most fun quarterback I have ever seen at NU. Even beat out Zak Kustok to me in that category. We have been blessed with some top notch quarterbacks in the last few decades.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Baz was a bad boy, once he got experience!

 

[Wrestlerneverdiesasacatfan]

Alviti is looking dam good! I want to see him in there alot

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Alviti is looking dam good! I want to see him in there alot

Go away.