If Navy Can...NU Can..

[Ryanfield124]

The Midshipmen had a winning record in 10 of Niumatalolo’s first 12 seasons but have gone a combined 11-23 over the past three seasons. Navy finished the 2022 season with a 4-8 record by losing to Army in double-overtime on Saturday. Navy also went 4-8 in 2021, had a 3-7 record in 2020 and had a 3-10 record in 2018.

Overall, Niumatalolo posted a 109-83 record as Navy’s head coach with three AAC West titles. He is the winningest coach in program history.

SO lets throw all the Fitz defenses at this.
1. "Its a tough job because of the academic restrictions at the institution."-We can safely say its as hard or harder to get into the Naval Academy as it is to NU.

2. "But he is the winningest coach in school history" - Harder to win at Navy or NU? Fitz made more money and definitely has better facilities (even before 2018).

3. "He needs one more year to turn it around..." -Niumatalolo was 11-23 in the last 3 years: Fitz was 11-22 over the last 3 years.

4. "Fitz is a leader of young men and that's more important than football'- 75% of Navy's football players end up accepting commissions as Marine 2d Lts. During the majority of Niumatalolo’s tenure the United States was at war. Some of his players have died in combat. Essentially, Niumatalolo’s leadership was by far more instrumental than Fitz's. The kind of kid that chooses USNA can absolutely cut it at NU. I contend that your average NU football player candidate is no more at risk than your USNA candidate. So, lets not over weight this "leader of men" BS.

Let's not call USNA a 'football" school but its obvious they care; and they care about rivalries. Under the same scenario they would have also fired Fitz. They are not worried about being able to find someone to lead the program or understand the institution. They understand the impact football has on its 'brand' and have made a decision to improve it. They don't pay in the top tier, don't have our facilities, they don't get our conference cash, nor do they have the facilities (practice and stadium).

If Navy can fire a coach. So can NU.

Navy fires head coach Ken Niumatalolo after 15 seasons

Navy had a winning record in 10 of Niumatalolo’s first 12 seasons but has gone a combined 11-23 over the past three seasons.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[corbi296]

The Midshipmen had a winning record in 10 of Niumatalolo’s first 12 seasons but have gone a combined 11-23 over the past three seasons. Navy finished the 2022 season with a 4-8 record by losing to Army in double-overtime on Saturday. Navy also went 4-8 in 2021, had a 3-7 record in 2020 and had a 3-10 record in 2018.

Overall, Niumatalolo posted a 109-83 record as Navy’s head coach with three AAC West titles. He is the winningest coach in program history.

SO lets throw all the Fitz defenses at this.
1. "Its a tough job because of the academic restrictions at the institution."-We can safely say its as hard or harder to get into the Naval Academy as it is to NU.

2. "But he is the winningest coach in school history" - Harder to win at Navy or NU? Fitz made more money and definitely has better facilities (even before 2018).

3. "He needs one more year to turn it around..." -Niumatalolo was 11-23 in the last 3 years: Fitz was 11-22 over the last 3 years.

4. "Fitz is a leader of young men and that's more important than football'- 75% of Navy's football players end up accepting commissions as Marine 2d Lts. During the majority of Niumatalolo’s tenure the United States was at war. Some of his players have died in combat. Essentially, Niumatalolo’s leadership was by far more instrumental than Fitz's. The kind of kid that chooses USNA can absolutely cut it at NU. I contend that your average NU football player candidate is no more at risk than your USNA candidate. So, lets not over weight this "leader of men" BS.

Let's not call USNA a 'football" school but its obvious they care; and they care about rivalries. Under the same scenario they would have also fired Fitz. They are not worried about being able to find someone to lead the program or understand the institution. They understand the impact football has on its 'brand' and have made a decision to improve it. They don't pay in the top tier, don't have our facilities, they don't get our conference cash, nor do they have the facilities (practice and stadium).

If Navy can fire a coach. So can NU.

Navy fires head coach Ken Niumatalolo after 15 seasons

Navy had a winning record in 10 of Niumatalolo’s first 12 seasons but has gone a combined 11-23 over the past three seasons.

sports.yahoo.com

Do something dumb that they will regret in about 12 months? No thanks!

 

[Hungry Jack]

It doesn’t mean Navy made a good decision

 

[Ryanfield124]

It doesn’t mean Navy made a good decision

So to defend Fitz you must refute a logical conclusion made by a similar institution. Ok.

Frankly, Niumatalolo has way more right to his HC job than Fitz based on the circumstances. This year Navy was was way more competitive than NU.

They only lost 3 games by 8+ points to Memphis, Houston, and Cincinnati. All others were a touchdown or less. NU clearly has a deeper talent pool to draw from.

HJ, you should be sending a complaint to your Senator.

 

[Hungry Jack]

So to defend Fitz you must refute a logical conclusion made by a similar institution. Ok.

Frankly, Niumatalolo has way more right to his HC job than Fitz based on the circumstances. This year Navy was was way more competitive than NU.

They only lost 3 games by 8+ points to Memphis, Houston, and Cincinnati. All others were a touchdown or less. NU clearly has a deeper talent pool to draw from.

HJ, you should be sending a complaint to your Senator.

OK. I'll send a note to Dick Durbin.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

The Midshipmen had a winning record in 10 of Niumatalolo’s first 12 seasons but have gone a combined 11-23 over the past three seasons. Navy finished the 2022 season with a 4-8 record by losing to Army in double-overtime on Saturday. Navy also went 4-8 in 2021, had a 3-7 record in 2020 and had a 3-10 record in 2018.

Overall, Niumatalolo posted a 109-83 record as Navy’s head coach with three AAC West titles. He is the winningest coach in program history.

SO lets throw all the Fitz defenses at this.
1. "Its a tough job because of the academic restrictions at the institution."-We can safely say its as hard or harder to get into the Naval Academy as it is to NU.

2. "But he is the winningest coach in school history" - Harder to win at Navy or NU? Fitz made more money and definitely has better facilities (even before 2018).

3. "He needs one more year to turn it around..." -Niumatalolo was 11-23 in the last 3 years: Fitz was 11-22 over the last 3 years.

4. "Fitz is a leader of young men and that's more important than football'- 75% of Navy's football players end up accepting commissions as Marine 2d Lts. During the majority of Niumatalolo’s tenure the United States was at war. Some of his players have died in combat. Essentially, Niumatalolo’s leadership was by far more instrumental than Fitz's. The kind of kid that chooses USNA can absolutely cut it at NU. I contend that your average NU football player candidate is no more at risk than your USNA candidate. So, lets not over weight this "leader of men" BS.

Let's not call USNA a 'football" school but its obvious they care; and they care about rivalries. Under the same scenario they would have also fired Fitz. They are not worried about being able to find someone to lead the program or understand the institution. They understand the impact football has on its 'brand' and have made a decision to improve it. They don't pay in the top tier, don't have our facilities, they don't get our conference cash, nor do they have the facilities (practice and stadium).

If Navy can fire a coach. So can NU.

Navy fires head coach Ken Niumatalolo after 15 seasons

Navy had a winning record in 10 of Niumatalolo’s first 12 seasons but has gone a combined 11-23 over the past three seasons.

sports.yahoo.com

Feel better?

 

[Ryanfield124]

Feel better?

Thanks for the reply. I took the time to share a fact-based post for discussion. Dismiss it as you may but I don't want to get into your (whatever it is) squabble with AyanKB.

I think both of you need to meet for drinks and end up making out in the parking lot or something.

I'd like to stand by the merits of the argument. How can USNA fire a coach in identical circumstances (albeit not paid and supported as well as Fitz) yet some cannot consider the concept of getting a new coach?

I know this may be difficult for you so just don't reply. I won't be offended.

 

[phatcat]

It doesn’t mean Navy made a good decision

It just means it's the same decision that led to success at Duke, TCU et al, and similar to Shaw falling on his sword. WE are the outliers

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Thanks for the reply. I took the time to share a fact-based post for discussion. Dismiss it as you may but I don't want to get into your (whatever it is) squabble with AyanKB.

I think both of you need to meet for drinks and end up making out in the parking lot or something.

I'd like to stand by the merits of the argument. How can USNA fire a coach in identical circumstances (albeit not paid and supported as well as Fitz) yet some cannot consider the concept of getting a new coach?

I know this may be difficult for you so just don't reply. I won't be offended.

You’re not really advancing any new argument. Of course NU can fire a coach just like Navy did. Of course three of the last four seasons have sucked balls. Yes many programs would have let Fitz go at this point, but not nearly as many coaches have built up the same level of goodwill as Fitz at NU. Fitz basically IS modern football at NU, combining his time as player and coach.

That said, I think the changes after past season should have been more extensive. I’m hopeful but optimistic that we hear of changes in strength and recruiting staffs. There’s still a chance Fitz messes up his coaching hires; if Holecek ends up as DC it would basically be dereliction of duty.

USNA also has certain benefits by virtue of being a service academy that partially offset the academic hurdles, including significantly more evaluation days and no limits on scholarships. Yes, USNA can attract “NU-type” kids, but they also have benefits we do not have.

At the end of the day, this kind of thread that isn’t really saying anything new or pushing conversation forward is just kind of… boring.

 

[docrugby1]

Those benefits include OT school at Quantico. Try running their make or break obstacle course and other benefits there

 

[StreamCat]

At the end of the day, this kind of thread that isn’t really saying anything new or pushing conversation forward is just kind of… boring.

Kind of like one word posts. “No”?

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Kind of like one word posts. “No”?

Sorry you don’t like answering yes/no questions with one of the two options? Otherwise the post to which I’m responding is just so far off base that engaging would be pointless.

 

[Purple Pile Driver]

Thanks for the reply. I took the time to share a fact-based post for discussion. Dismiss it as you may but I don't want to get into your (whatever it is) squabble with AyanKB.

I think both of you need to meet for drinks and end up making out in the parking lot or something.

I'd like to stand by the merits of the argument. How can USNA fire a coach in identical circumstances (albeit not paid and supported as well as Fitz) yet some cannot consider the concept of getting a new coach?

I know this may be difficult for you so just don't reply. I won't be offended.

I wish you would just go to the fun place called Inside NU where the writers can’t even get our players names correct. Sounds like you would get some more comments to the threads you start. Misery loves company.

 

[NUCat320]

Kind of like one word posts. “No”?

Yes.

 

[NUCat320]

It just means it's the same decision that led to success at Duke, TCU et al, and similar to Shaw falling on his sword. WE are the outliers

This is a true fact. NU is the outlier. There is no other program where Fitz would still be head coach after these back-to-back seasons well into his tenure, but at NU we have an inferiority complex.

Frankly, there aren’t a lot of places where 11 wins in three seasons keeps your job either, which is where Ken N was.

I’m surprised by the Ken N firing mostly because I expect that they’ll remain a ‘system’ program, and Ken N is one of the few left coaching this dying system.

Reasonable people can differ on whether Fitz deserves his job. His impact on NU football is such that many NU fans would be legitimately sad if he lost his job, which can’t be said about most coaches in most places. But, at most places, those fans would be sad because he would have been sent packing.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

I wish you would just go to the fun place called Inside NU where the writers can’t even get our players names correct. Sounds like you would get some more comments to the threads you start. Misery loves company.

He’s already there doing the same shit.

 

[Ryanfield124]

He’s already there doing the same shit.

So are you. The troll in you feels compelled to stalk people and not have discourse. Every reply bumps my views to the top of the board. I feel bad that disagreeing or belittling other's views gives you purpose.

 

[Ryanfield124]

Those benefits include OT school at Quantico. Try running their make or break obstacle course and other benefits there

Been there done that. OCS/TBS is no joke.

 

[Sheffielder]

The case of Navy/Niumatalolo is an interesting one. According to Niumatalolo, he was fired in the locker room by the AD right after the 2OT loss. Poor form by Navy on that one, even if a change was in order.

Conversely, my patience for people praising the character and integrity of any coach as a primary case for them keeping their job is extremely limited. I am a person of good character and integrity who would be deeply committed to academics and the welfare of my players if I were a football coach...that doesn't entitle me to the job if I'm rather consistently leading the program into the toilet. Character/integrity and winning are not mutually exclusive...especially as Navy AD stated in no uncertain terms their two modest goals: bowl eligiblity and beat Army. We're not far off from expectations like that (relatively speaking).

Although I am very much against the relative impatience of fanbases when it comes to coaching changes (hello Auburn), I think three consecutive losing seasons or four out of the past five are appropriate grounds for change. Niumatalolo had three consecutive and 4/5 bad ones.

To me, that gives Fitz one more/one last...

 

[Hungry Jack]

Thanks for the reply. I took the time to share a fact-based post for discussion. Dismiss it as you may but I don't want to get into your (whatever it is) squabble with AyanKB.

I think both of you need to meet for drinks and end up making out in the parking lot or something.

I'd like to stand by the merits of the argument. How can USNA fire a coach in identical circumstances (albeit not paid and supported as well as Fitz) yet some cannot consider the concept of getting a new coach?

I know this may be difficult for you so just don't reply. I won't be offended.

You make a legitimate point. Other successful coaches have been fired under similar circumstances.

Obviously, some posters, as well as our AD, disagree.

What else do you need?

Just keep in mind that other people are not responsible for your psychological comfort. Especially on a sports board.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

So are you. The troll in you feels compelled to stalk people and not have discourse. Every reply bumps my views to the top of the board. I feel bad that disagreeing or belittling other's views gives you purpose.

OK, man. Whatever makes you feel better.

 

[corbi296]

The case of Navy/Niumatalolo is an interesting one. According to Niumatalolo, he was fired in the locker room by the AD right after the 2OT loss. Poor form by Navy on that one, even if a change was in order.

Conversely, my patience for people praising the character and integrity of any coach as a primary case for them keeping their job is extremely limited. I am a person of good character and integrity who would be deeply committed to academics and the welfare of my players if I were a football coach...that doesn't entitle me to the job if I'm rather consistently leading the program into the toilet. Character/integrity and winning are not mutually exclusive...especially as Navy AD stated in no uncertain terms their two modest goals: bowl eligiblity and beat Army. We're not far off from expectations like that (relatively speaking).

Although I am very much against the relative impatience of fanbases when it comes to coaching changes (hello Auburn), I think three consecutive losing seasons or four out of the past five are appropriate grounds for change. Niumatalolo had three consecutive and 4/5 bad ones.

To me, that gives Fitz one more/one last...

When it comes to making any sort of change, the first thing to consider is if there is a reasonably high expectation that the alternative will be better. That's a relevant way to frame the decision because it forces the decision maker to carefully consider all the factors involved in achieving the desired "success" whatever that may be. That's why I am of the opinion that getting rid of coaches like Niumatalolo, who has achieved unparalleled long term success as a football coach at Navy, is a mistake even if people feel he has had a recent bad run (I don't agree with that assessment). The guy has won over an extended period of time like no other coach at Navy ever has and has proven himself capable of adjusting to change during that unparalled run of success. You don't get rid of the guy who has proven over a long period of time that he can win at a place where consistent winning has proven elusive due to inherent obstacles that will always be present. The impetus for change has to overwhelming and the likelihood that the available alternative will match or exceed the success of the predecessor also has to be better than a 50/50 proposition. If those elements are not present, I think making a change just for change's sake is a mistake that people will come to regret.

 

[Sheffielder]

When it comes to making any sort of change, the first thing to consider is if there is a reasonably high expectation that the alternative will be better. That's a relevant way to frame the decision because it forces the decision maker to carefully consider all the factors involved in achieving the desired "success" whatever that may be. That's why I am of the opinion that getting rid of coaches like Niumatalolo, who has achieved unparalleled long term success as a football coach at Navy, is a mistake even if he people feel he has had a recent bad run (I don't agree with that assessment). The guy has won over an extended period of time like no other coach at Navy ever has and has proven himself capable of adjusting to change during that unparalled run of success. You don't get rid of the guy who has proven over a long period of time that he can win at a place where consistent winning has proven elusive due to inherent obstacles that will always be present. The impetus for change has to overwhelming and the likelihood that the available alternative will match or exceed the success of the predecessor also has to be better than a 50/50 proposition. If those elements are not present, I think making a change just for change's sake is a mistake that people will come to regret.

While I generally agree with this, I also think about the AD, and what they are seeing on their side - decline in donations, restlessness amongst the alumni, declining attendance, etc. - and the AD isn't some stupid fan like we are...they're facing these realities as part of their daily work lives, and their jobs are on the line as well.

Three consecutive losing seasons and four of out of five is a lot. Can you imagine another year of us going 3-9...losing to Illinois 35-7 and seeing those stats as an IMPROVEMENT?

 

[corbi296]

While I generally agree with this, I also think about the AD, and what they are seeing on their side - decline in donations, restlessness amongst the alumni, declining attendance, etc. - and the AD isn't some stupid fan like we are...they're facing these realities as part of their daily work lives, and their jobs are on the line as well.

Three consecutive losing seasons and four of out of five is a lot. Can you imagine another year of us going 3-9...losing to Illinois 35-7 and seeing those stats as an IMPROVEMENT?

in my opinion the two main problems that have led to NU football's recent bad run are mostly coincidental, not systemic. The first problem has been the colossally bad decision to hire Jon O'Neil to be our DC. No need to belabor this point as it has been discussed ad nauseam. Hire a DC with a track record of success at the college level and NU's defense can quickly return to pre O'Neil levels. The second issue, and this could be argued to be a systemic problem, is our inability to recruit our preferred QB targets since landing Thorson. I think this has more to do with a run of bad luck on the recruiting end of things but I acknowledge that those who argue that our inability to land a top QB has more to do with the type of conservative offense we run may have a point. If that is the case, I think we have an OC in Bajakian that can quickly rectify this problem if Fitz gives him more rope. These are the two things I will be judging Fitz on in the coming year. Can he show good judgement and recruit an experienced, accomplished DC (Newberry from Navy seems like an excellent candidate) to get the defense back on track and secondly, can Fitz loosen the reigns on Bajakian to enable him to orchestrate an offense that comes closer to the level of production his offense at BC achieved in 2019 rather than we have seen from his offenses at NU the last couple of years.

 

[phatcat]

When it comes to making any sort of change, the first thing to consider is if there is a reasonably high expectation that the alternative will be better. That's a relevant way to frame the decision because it forces the decision maker to carefully consider all the factors involved in achieving the desired "success" whatever that may be. That's why I am of the opinion that getting rid of coaches like Niumatalolo, who has achieved unparalleled long term success as a football coach at Navy, is a mistake even if people feel he has had a recent bad run (I don't agree with that assessment). The guy has won over an extended period of time like no other coach at Navy ever has and has proven himself capable of adjusting to change during that unparalled run of success. You don't get rid of the guy who has proven over a long period of time that he can win at a place where consistent winning has proven elusive due to inherent obstacles that will always be present. The impetus for change has to overwhelming and the likelihood that the available alternative will match or exceed the success of the predecessor also has to be better than a 50/50 proposition. If those elements are not present, I think making a change just for change's sake is a mistake that people will come to regret.

Presuming that there is even the most modest due diligence in a coaching search, how could the new coach be worse than 1-11? With, btw, the lone win coming as a result of a bonehead opposing coach. The 2020 team was legit, even without COVID, they were probably an 8 win team. But - three of four years of absolutely dreadful football.

The die are cast, and we have another year of Fitz, at least, like it or not. But that doesn't mean that it's right. No coach could survive this (except Fitz)

 

[Sheffielder]

in my opinion the two main problems that have led to NU football's recent bad run are mostly coincidental, not systemic. The first problem has been the colossally bad decision to hire Jon O'Neil to be our DC. No need to belabor this point as it has been discussed ad nauseam. Hire a DC with a track record of success at the college level and NU's defense can quickly return to pre O'Neil levels. The second issue, and this could be argued to be a systemic problem, is our inability to recruit our preferred QB targets since landing Thorson. I think this has more to do with a run of bad luck on the recruiting end of things but I acknowledge that those who argue that our inability to land a top QB has more to do with the type of conservative offense we run may have a point. If that is the case, I think we have an OC in Bajakian that can quickly rectify this problem if Fitz gives him more rope. These are the two things I will be judging Fitz on in the coming year. Can he show good judgement and recruit an experienced, accomplished DC (Newberry from Navy seems like an excellent candidate) to get the defense back on track and secondly, can Fitz loosen the reigns on Bajakian to enable him to orchestrate an offense that comes closer to the level of production his offense at BC achieved in 2019 rather than we have seen from his offenses at NU the last couple of years.

What you are describing as "coincidental" are consistent cases of poor resource allocation and decision making.

Many coaches are doomed before they even have enough room to build up some momentum. We have zoomed by 15+ years with Fitz being the star of the show. At this point if his brand and standard operating procedures cant get us a steady pipeline of QB recruits either out of high school or from the portal, then we have problems and perhaps his star is not as shiny as we fans drinking the kool aid seem to think.

Likewise, when it comes to a new DC, I would argue the single most important trait Fitz should be seeking is proven success in the role at a P5 program (preferably at more than one). Not from the MAC, not from Navy and their AAC schedule, and not some d-backs coach from <insert P5 program> who just got fired that Jeff Genyk worked with once in 2005 and says is a good guy.

...but I would bet a lot of money it will be someone from that "not" list I just described.

 

[corbi296]

Presuming that there is even the most modest due diligence in a coaching search, how could the new coach be worse than 1-11? With, btw, the lone win coming as a result of a bonehead opposing coach. The 2020 team was legit, even without COVID, they were probably an 8 win team. But - three of four years of absolutely dreadful football.

The die are cast, and we have another year of Fitz, at least, like it or not. But that doesn't mean that it's right. No coach could survive this (except Fitz)

How about 1-11 or 2-10 for a decade? Would that qualify as worse in your eyes? Honestly i think some people around here forget how bad this program has been in the past over a prolonged period of time. Stop focusing on one season and take a look at the big picture.

 

[corbi296]

What you are describing as "coincidental" are consistent cases of poor resource allocation and decision making.

Many coaches are doomed before they even have enough room to build up some momentum. We have zoomed by 15+ years with Fitz being the star of the show. At this point if his brand and standard operating procedures cant get us a steady pipeline of QB recruits either out of high school or from the portal, then we have problems and perhaps his star is not as shiny as we fans drinking the kool aid seem to think.

Likewise, when it comes to a new DC, I would argue the single most important trait Fitz should be seeking is proven success in the role at a P5 program (preferably at more than one). Not from the MAC, not from Navy and their AAC schedule, and not some d-backs coach from <insert P5 program> who just got fired that Jeff Genyk worked with once in 2005 and says is a good guy.

...but I would bet a lot of money it will be someone from that "not" list I just described.

There are plenty of very accomplished and proven coaches that Fitz could chose from that don't come from P5 schools. If Fitz hired Newberry, Navy's current DC, I would be ecstatic and very bullish on the prospects of a defensive rebound next year.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

What you are describing as "coincidental" are consistent cases of poor resource allocation and decision making.

Many coaches are doomed before they even have enough room to build up some momentum. We have zoomed by 15+ years with Fitz being the star of the show. At this point if his brand and standard operating procedures cant get us a steady pipeline of QB recruits either out of high school or from the portal, then we have problems and perhaps his star is not as shiny as we fans drinking the kool aid seem to think.

Likewise, when it comes to a new DC, I would argue the single most important trait Fitz should be seeking is proven success in the role at a P5 program (preferably at more than one). Not from the MAC, not from Navy and their AAC schedule, and not some d-backs coach from <insert P5 program> who just got fired that Jeff Genyk worked with once in 2005 and says is a good guy.

...but I would bet a lot of money it will be someone from that "not" list I just described.

I mean… we actually did have a good run of QB recruits out of the portal. Johnson, Hilinski, and Ramsey were all pretty highly-regarded transfer prospects that surely had plenty of options for transfer destination.

 

[peatymeanis]

in my opinion the two main problems that have led to NU football's recent bad run are mostly coincidental, not systemic. The first problem has been the colossally bad decision to hire Jon O'Neil to be our DC. No need to belabor this point as it has been discussed ad nauseam. Hire a DC with a track record of success at the college level and NU's defense can quickly return to pre O'Neil levels. The second issue, and this could be argued to be a systemic problem, is our inability to recruit our preferred QB targets since landing Thorson. I think this has more to do with a run of bad luck on the recruiting end of things but I acknowledge that those who argue that our inability to land a top QB has more to do with the type of conservative offense we run may have a point. If that is the case, I think we have an OC in Bajakian that can quickly rectify this problem if Fitz gives him more rope. These are the two things I will be judging Fitz on in the coming year. Can he show good judgement and recruit an experienced, accomplished DC (Newberry from Navy seems like an excellent candidate) to get the defense back on track and secondly, can Fitz loosen the reigns on Bajakian to enable him to orchestrate an offense that comes closer to the level of production his offense at BC achieved in 2019 rather than we have seen from his offenses at NU the last couple of years.

Those are all systemic problems.

Hiring a woefully underqualified hack as a replacement for your HOF DC? Systemic.

Handicapping your QBs and offense in general by running a Fred Flintstone era scheme? Systemic.

Not allowing your chosen OC to implement his own philosophy? Systemic.

 

[corbi296]

Those are all systemic problems.

Hiring a woefully underqualified hack as a replacement for your HOF DC? Systemic.

Handicapping your QBs and offense in general by running a Fred Flintstone era scheme? Systemic.

Not allowing your chosen OC to implement his own philosophy? Systemic.

You obviously don’t understand the difference between systemic and coincidental.

 

[zeek55]

I mean… we actually did have a good run of QB recruits out of the portal. Johnson, Hilinski, and Ramsey were all pretty highly-regarded transfer prospects that surely had plenty of options for transfer destination.

Yeah one can say that we're not seeing the QB development that we'd hope to see..., but surely we've been getting the hot prospects from the portal the past couple of years.

Those 3 would have all ended up at other Power 5 programs if they didn't come here.

 

[zeek55]

The Midshipmen had a winning record in 10 of Niumatalolo’s first 12 seasons but have gone a combined 11-23 over the past three seasons. Navy finished the 2022 season with a 4-8 record by losing to Army in double-overtime on Saturday. Navy also went 4-8 in 2021, had a 3-7 record in 2020 and had a 3-10 record in 2018.

Overall, Niumatalolo posted a 109-83 record as Navy’s head coach with three AAC West titles. He is the winningest coach in program history.

SO lets throw all the Fitz defenses at this.
1. "Its a tough job because of the academic restrictions at the institution."-We can safely say its as hard or harder to get into the Naval Academy as it is to NU.

2. "But he is the winningest coach in school history" - Harder to win at Navy or NU? Fitz made more money and definitely has better facilities (even before 2018).

3. "He needs one more year to turn it around..." -Niumatalolo was 11-23 in the last 3 years: Fitz was 11-22 over the last 3 years.

4. "Fitz is a leader of young men and that's more important than football'- 75% of Navy's football players end up accepting commissions as Marine 2d Lts. During the majority of Niumatalolo’s tenure the United States was at war. Some of his players have died in combat. Essentially, Niumatalolo’s leadership was by far more instrumental than Fitz's. The kind of kid that chooses USNA can absolutely cut it at NU. I contend that your average NU football player candidate is no more at risk than your USNA candidate. So, lets not over weight this "leader of men" BS.

Let's not call USNA a 'football" school but its obvious they care; and they care about rivalries. Under the same scenario they would have also fired Fitz. They are not worried about being able to find someone to lead the program or understand the institution. They understand the impact football has on its 'brand' and have made a decision to improve it. They don't pay in the top tier, don't have our facilities, they don't get our conference cash, nor do they have the facilities (practice and stadium).

If Navy can fire a coach. So can NU.

Navy fires head coach Ken Niumatalolo after 15 seasons

Navy had a winning record in 10 of Niumatalolo’s first 12 seasons but has gone a combined 11-23 over the past three seasons.

sports.yahoo.com

I think Navy made a huge mistake in firing him; that's a really tough job and he did an exceptional job of it longer than pretty much anybody else could. In some ways the military academy jobs are tougher than ours because of the service requirements which take out pretty much every recruit with NFL dreams, and the transfer situation is just as tough if not tougher.

Firing a head coach is not a panacea. Fitz (like Niumatalolo) is a terrific head of program. Obviously the wins aren't coming at the clip anybody would be happy with, but you try everything else in my opinion before firing the HC in a situation like ours or Navy.

I wouldn't be surprised if Navy misses on their next coach, the odds certainly don't favor any sort of quick return back to 8-11 win seasons which are more of an anomaly for them as opposed to us. I think they should have tried cleaning house on the rest of the staff to see if that could get things pointed in the right direction; he's the only coach to reach a decade as HC of Navy for a reason.

As far as Northwestern goes, Fitz has earned the chance to rebuild the staff on both sides to see if that can get this fixed over the next couple of seasons.

 

[peatymeanis]

You obviously don’t understand the difference between systemic and coincidental.

Coincidental is losing a closely fought game in overtime. Systemic is consistently having the worst special teams in the country year after year. Understand now partner?

 

[Ryanfield124]

How about 1-11 or 2-10 for a decade? Would that qualify as worse in your eyes? Honestly i think some people around here forget how bad this program has been in the past over a prolonged period of time. Stop focusing on one season and take a look at the big picture.

I didn't call for Fitz in 2019 because there was a 2018 hangover effect plus injuries. Johnson didn't pan out. That team did as best as it could with what was left. So this isn't a snapshot conclusion. After 2 x 3-9 seasons in three they throw gas on the fire with a 1-11 season. We are going backwards. That is the big picture.

As I have posted here, Coach N at least showed fight and lost many legitimately close games. Losing to Army stings worse there then us losing to IL. They hung with Notre Dame and won 4 games.

I'd lesson my tune if we'd won our non-conference games and beat Nebraska. Maybe if we hadn't lost to Wisconsin the week after the coach was fired or Iowa's inept offense. We are going backwards and the USNA decision makers (by the way ones who have made life or death type decisions) saw that a new direction was needed.

My view on Fitz is not personal. He is not showing any signs of moving things in the right direction and has justifiably burned the goodwill of the fans at this point.

 

[phatcat]

How about 1-11 or 2-10 for a decade? Would that qualify as worse in your eyes? Honestly i think some people around here forget how bad this program has been in the past over a prolonged period of time. Stop focusing on one season and take a look at the big picture.

You sound like Squealer in Animal Fsrm, threatening for Jones to come back. This isn't 1980 or 1990. Fitz didn't start the Renaissance here - Barnett did and Walker continued it. I have great respect for what Fitz has done and the successes hes achieved. All time wins leader. The program has top facilities and decent recruiting classes. Stayed when he could have left.

And yet, TCU and Duke somehow slaughtered their sacred cows, and...

I'm willing to wait another year because we have no choice, but I expect another 10 loss season.

At some point, Gragg will have to decide enough is enough. Corbi, I invite you to consider how much YOU feel is enough

 

[DaCat]

You sound like Squealer in Animal Fsrm, threatening for Jones to come back. This isn't 1980 or 1990. Fitz didn't start the Renaissance here - Barnett did and Walker continued it. I have great respect for what Fitz has done and the successes hes achieved. All time wins leader. The program has top facilities and decent recruiting classes. Stayed when he could have left.

And yet, TCU and Duke somehow slaughtered their sacred cows, and...

I'm willing to wait another year because we have no choice, but I expect another 10 loss season.

At some point, Gragg will have to decide enough is enough. Corbi, I invite you to consider how much YOU feel is enough

Dude, a 10 loss season is historic bad. That is not acceptable. Cannot even contemplate it.

#NeverAgain

 

[NUCat320]

Gary Patterson literally has a statue outside the stadium in Fort Worth, and he was wearing orange when TCU beat Texas last month. His firing (‘parting ways’) was shocking and gutsy and…it appears that his message had gone stale.

 

[phatcat]

Dude, a 10 loss season is historic bad. That is not acceptable. Cannot even contemplate it.

#NeverAgain

Agreed, but why would you expect better? Several key losses to NFL/graduation, UTEP is better than SIU and as good or better than Miami Hydroxide, no Scott Frost to kick around. I currently expect a net loss to the portal.

The wildcard may be Sullivan. He has some real potential. But...head injuries.

 

[gocatsgo2003]

Agreed, but why would you expect better? Several key losses to NFL/graduation, UTEP is better than SIU and as good or better than Miami Hydroxide, no Scott Frost to kick around. I currently expect a net loss to the portal.

The wildcard may be Sullivan. He has some real potential. But...head injuries.

He didn’t miss games with a head injury, but instead a bruised/broken sternum.