Almost like recruiting and player projection/development is kind of hard. Weird.
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Almost like recruiting and player projection/development is kind of hard. Weird.
The Missouri Valley was the 9th best league in the country in 2018 out of 32 leagues, via Pomeroy. It wasn’t a big stretch to think that a guy who led that league in scoring would be a quality B1G starter as a senior. Nobody was expecting him to be Carsen Edwards but it’s definitely surprising that he wasn’t better.
Ivanauskas, by comparison, was POY in this year’s 21st-ranked league. Not to say that he wouldn’t have helped us in the long run but I think Falzon could go to that league next year and compete for POY.
Is that still open? They were friends with my parents. I rode on their south side Irish float a few times.
That would be a cool NU gathering that I would be happy to sponsor.
Wow, long sentence. Easier to read with more breaks.
I stated undeniable facts. He came to NU, he started and was not good. CCC made his bed. An apologist approach is quite weak. He makes $3MM to do his job in an entertainment industry.
And that’s a lot of money. How many of you make that for whatever you do? How many of you would keep your jobs if you had a couple of bad years, had bad prospects for the near future?
And why? Are your jobs less important? Less worthy? Is coaching sports more valuable? No.
It’s a matter of pride. And guys like Mike are happy to pay guys like CCC to do ok. I’m not. Give me $3MM plus staff salaries and I will employ every thing I can think of to succeed. I would not rely on the Mikes of the world with their participation trophies to justify my outrageous salary for coaching sports.
And those that succeed are paid well, very well. And those that don’t succeed...fill in this blank
You sound angry! I stated facts as well. Ryan Taylor was not some bum off the street that Collins obtained as a grad transfer. He was considered a coup.
In hind sight, obviously not. But I’d rather have two future pros and the top players in the state both want to play at Illinois, than neither. What ended up transpiring was of course ugly. But I don’t blame the staff for getting greedy. And even with how it turned out, we were much better off to get one (and some bad PR) than to have no shot at either.
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From what I gathered, THT left Mac Irvin Fire to have a chance to showcase himself on a different team that wasn’t as loaded, and the Irvins took offense to it. It grew into an ugly feud between amongst adults, with kids stuck in the middle. Ugly situation for sure.
Not at all angry, actually having a great weekend w Lara and her sisters.
Nobody said Taylor was a bum. What I say is that he is and was not B1G starter quality. And his production over a considerable sample size prove it.
Taylor as a recruit to be a starter was a miss. Apparently, Benson, Falzon and RI were misses. Brown and Vassar were misses. Lathon was a miss. Lindsey was debatable.
Mac was a hit as was Law and Pardon. None were Allstars. I doubt anybody would consider them in NU top ten MBB all time.
So we have lots of misses, a couple in the ballpark hits. And a team of so far miss - Turner, Greer, Nance; and serviceable - Gaines, Kopp; or completely unknown. Plus another class of anointed saviors.
CCC needs to raise his batting average in terms of actual talent brought into gym. Not number of stars, not potential but players. And he really needs a home run or two .
Who is in YOUR Top 10? Just for the sake of argument, since the Billy McKinney days......who is definitely a Top 10-er.
Well, I’m not old enough to know some undeniable NU top ten but I will give it a shot. And I suspect Mac makes a modern day version. But here I go, not in order, but just the top ten: (1990ish and on and based on what they did at NU)
VV, Coble, Shurna, Esch, Baldwin, Mac, Olah, Moore, Neloms, Leslie
Man, that was tough. Cutting out guys like Hearn (NBA and other post NU stuff, if we only recognized his talent earlier), Rankin, Blake, Juice and so on. I tried to also distribute among positions.
Are you sure about Olah and Moore? You're definitely missing a couple of the bests to wear a NU uniform, admittedly prior to 1990. (i.e.)McKinney, Rucklick and Stack.
Again, you're using the benefit of hindsight here. At the time, I alrwady presented you with evidence that he was a highly regarded grad transfer. You disagree with that evidence since it does not fit you "CC doesn't know what he's doing" narrative, and you have your right to that opinion. Would be nice if you could show any articles, or other factual data that would support your theory that Taylor was not a great get as a hrad transfer AT THE TIME in stead of basing it on meaningless hindsight, but hey, you believe what you want to believe I guess, just like you believed our football team was doomed last year after a rough start. ..
Admittedly so. Before my time.
And no, not sure. I had a list of about 20 guys that I pared down. After Esch, VV, Shurna and Coble - it gets tough.
It was more than that. It involved THT and Ayo’s sister. Ayo and THT worked it out. Ayo’s mom forgave. Ayo’s dad was the one who did not want THT at Illinois. A dad and his little girl. No forgiveness in him.
Lol. We'll then, WITH THE BENEFIT OF HINDSIGHT, Tom Izzo made a terrible decision to offer Delvon Roe and Marquise Gray then, 5 five-star recruits who were in the top-30 in those respective classes, because they only averaged 6.1 and 4.4 points respectively in their college careers. But of course, in reality land, they were both solid recruiting decisions based on the information available at the time.
In Bobtopia, however, they were terribad decisions because, muh, hindsight! See how ridiculous an argument that is? If coaches knew exactly how a player was to perform in the future, they would never make a recruiting mistake!
Let’s say I agree. But what did he surround them with? How did he fill out the roster?
CCC can miss as long as he also has more hits with some homeruns sprinkled in. CCC has more misses than hits and no homeruns.
Well, he strung together enough singles, doubles, bunts and wild pitches to win a game int he NCAA Tournament. That's something....
He did. He had a mix of his guys and inherited guys. But since the team has been full of his own recruits, we have gotten pretty stinking bad.
Alls not loss. There is potential on the roster, there is potential in the coming class, there is potential out there to be landed. I’m saying that he needs to start succeeding.
We have already seen mumbling beyond me questioning CCC as the coaching answer. More flops, more crappy seasons and more that mumbling will become loud and clear.
Where did I call you a name? Just stating facts. With the benefit of knowing how a player would perform in the future, coaches would have a 100% success rate in recruiting...
Izzo surrounded those players with the talent that would have allowed them to succeed. They still did not succeed. Roe had an injury excuse, but Gray just flat-out did not live up to expectations. But I guess Izzo was supposed to peer into his crystal ball and know that, so his bad...
Some coaches predict how players will perform in the future pretty accurately. The run strong programs. They get some wrong, more they get more right. I think that is a big part of why they are paid millions to run those programs. But what do I know?
Correct. But his teams succeeded. No one would complain about a Vassar or Brown if they were surrounded by a success group of players that managed to win games.
Unfortunately, we seemingly have rosters full of misses and a team that doesn’t win. And forces the fans to live in the glory of a single NCAA appearance years in the past.
What do you know? Exactly, I don't know anything, either, which is why I trust one off the best athletic directors ever to have made the right decision to hire the right coach for the program (CC) and I trust that CC will run a successful program. He has already rewarded my trust by accomplishing things that Northwestern coach has done before, including taking us to the Dance, shattering our record for wins in a single season, being the fastest coach to 100 wins in program history (by far) and being the first coach in the program with a winning record since basketballs had laces. Sometimes, like Izzo, without the benefit of hindsight, he will make decisions that looked optimal at the time, but did not work out. That's the breaks.
One NCAA tournament appearance just over two years ago. Not exactly "years in the past", whatever that means. And , on the current recruiting trajectory, we will have another Dance appearance within the next five years, and we can put all this "CC is a bad coach" nonsense to bed finally.
I question more and trust less. Checks and balances are a cornerstone of this country.
And the last two seasons plus the expectations for next season support my approach.
Right now, absent a tourney appearance with players from two admins, CCC has not done better than BC. At least BC found star level players with regularity.
I agree BC was not the answer but he helped moved the program forward. I agree CCC has helped move the program forward. I feel he may have stalled out too. Time for him to prove me wrong.
I acknowledge he is not going anywhere soon. So he will have the time to prove me wrong or right. And we will be right here to witness it.
Two plus is plural. With his players plus guys from BC. And since he has had his own players, nothing but crap.
He is going to get those five years. Let’s see how this plays out. My cards are on the table.
Agreed to disagree I guess. I will never ever agree that Carmody is or was a better coach than CC. . And I trust those with more expertise than me to make the correct decisions.
At the risk of getting in between this Bob/Mike lovefest, Lindsey was not a miss and it’s not debatable. He performed well above his recruiting ranking and is a clear “hit” for CCC.
Yeah as an Illinois fan, it seemed like Lindsey always gave us trouble.
As was BMac. And Pardon. law performed to his level. And that was the guts of the NCAA team.
Nope. Those guys got collective big heads and blew the repeat performance, much to the dismay of Clark Kellogg.
That behavior was an extension of their coach. Collins did every media engagement he could wrangle up and did what he could to try to audition to be K’s successor at Duke. His boys got content and lazy because they watched him do the same thing.
