What do you want me to say, it was a ridic post. Coack K. wasn't even close to retiring, for one...
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Maybe you’re inside the program and know more than me. But I’m guessing you don’t know any more than the rest of us. I’m just saying what was the outside perception, and what was openly suggested in national media (not just my own biased opinion). It’s not an absurd notion.
Yes it is an absurd notion. It was a big story when NU ended the longest draught for a power5 school so yes, he was asked to do a lot of media. Duh. So did Loyola's coach last year. Was he angling for another job. No, he just signed an extension. What responsible national media said Collins was angling for Coach K's job? Internet BS!
Soooo there’s no way that any coaches that have success in the tourney are angling for a better gig? Got it. Yeah, I’m sure Collins wanted to stay at NU forever.
You’re missing my point. I was just suggesting that the narrative after last seasons letdown was that Collins (and by extension, his team) had spent the offseason celebrating a Round of 32 appearance like it was a National Title. It’s the whole hunter vs the hunted thing. They brought back everybody for the next year, started the season ranked, and the season went off the rails. Is there a more logical explanation that you’d prefer here? (It seems like the other explanations are: 1) the tourney appearance was a fluke, or 2) Collins did a disasterous coaching job... I’m assuming you don’t like those either?)
I didn’t expect this to be a contentious point. It just seems like the simplest answer to me. I’ve clearly touched a nerve here or missed the mark. Agree to disagree, I suppose.
Well, he signed a contract extension through 2025 that, according to AD Jim Phillips, has significant financial penalties on both sides to break it early. So perhaps not forever, but certainly into the medium term future. And such penalties took Jamie Dixon out of the running for the UCLA job.......
he is one that has him as a top 10 transfer for grads last year
https://bustingbrackets.com/2018/06/07/ncaa-basketball-ranking-top-30-graduate-transfers/6/
what hurt was not getting PG (Lathon or Mooney) to get the ball the to playmakers.
here is another at #11
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-the-2018-19-college-basketball-season#slide2
Thing is, none of these authors are good enough at identifying power 5 talent to be employed to do so.
Can you confirm who offer? Can you confirm if it was as a starter, role player or chance to earn time? I can’t. I don’t know either way. Share your info.
Stories mention Oregon, Indiana, and Miami-FL as part of his final four along with NU.
mooney was down to northwestern and texas tech. kid might be MVP of the whole tournament. thats pretty good eval of talent by CCC and staff.
to go against the notion that taylor wasn't one of the most coveted grad transfers in the country is asinine.
you should use your trick of going back in time to pull up old threads on the board to see whats the case with taylor
to go against the notion that taylor wasn't one of the most coveted grad transfers in the country is asinine.
you should use your trick of going back in time to pull up old threads on the board to see whats the case with taylor
Sure, and Harvard, Yale and Oxford were among mine. There was one small problem.
But let’s say they all offered, did they offer a starting spot? Which one of the IU starting spots was available? Who on that good Oregon team was gonna sit?
Or maybe, NU was the only guaranteed PT with likely starter and great education to boot. Hmmm. Because if those schools all offered strong PT and Taylor came here, then CCC should be able to talk any recruit into signing.
Well heywood, what we know for fact is CCC has brought many more proven misses than proven hits to date. Period. End of argument.
So unless Nance, Kopp, Greer and the next wave prove to be hits and at least one shows some star power, then doesn’t really matter who almost came or what anyone else thought, does it? We will still be sucky and at the bottom.
Time for CCC to show some success.
I highly, highly doubt that any of the schools in his final four made a pitch of having him as a role player.
You have completely taken over this thread with this asinine argument and it’s too bad.
I think it’s fair to say that Collins has missed far too much lately with recruits. But it is not fair to say that he was wrong to offer Taylor, and it is nothing more than revisionist history to say he wasn’t a coveted transfer.
Really? Ok, without even dropping to your level, I will simply ask you who Taylor was replacing at any of those three schools. I’ll sit down and listen for your insightful and responsive answer. (Spoiler alert - no answer is coming. There is no answer. There is no way Taylor starts at IU or OU. Admittedly, I know nothing about Miami.)
You are basically admitting you have no clue what was told to Taylor during his recruitment. Why would you expect anyone else to have that inside information. They wouldn’t. So how do you get that to the point of CC promising a starter role? For all any of us know, his pitch was no more aggressive as far as playing time than anyone else’s. Absolutely no one would use a pitch that a grad transfer was going to be no more than a fill in or role player. This argument goes around in circles and there is really no way you can be right or wrong.
Your CCC criticism is close to overtaking your Fitz blasting of three years ago. We probably won’t be good next year either and this turning of every thread into a lambasting of CCC is already getting old. Can’t wait for next year.
I have said repeatedly that I don’t know. None of us do. All I know is that things haven’t been going good. And it’s time for CCC to demonstrate some considerable success or he deserves to be on the hot seat.
Y’all been dragging me into these subjective debates. My position has been pretty gosh darn consistent. Put up or move along.
Just a few of MY quotes on this thread. You can try to misrepresent my thoughts, giving rise to the whole ‘perception becomes reality’ thing. I will continue to live in the archives.
#morefakenews
Do you really think anyone wants to go back and read all of your posts that lead everyone in one gigantic circle that revolves around CCC stinks.
Don’t care. Do care about correcting false narratives. I have said his is failing and needs to change course or sit on the hot seat. Terribly unfair critique and expectation, but I stand by it.
This place has reached such a level of desperation to dismiss me that folks are now openly arguing that past performance has no value, no place in predicting future performance. This is like a mini version of the main stream media and the ridiculous efforts they will 8ndertake to control the message. C’mon!
You folks are supposed to be bright, successful, leaders of men. Please tell me that this new approach of hindsight-gate is just an effort at humor. Woes be the future of the world if people no longer learn from the past to try and steer the future.
You folks are supposed to be bright, successful, leaders of men. Please tell me that this new approach of hindsight-gate is just an effort at humor. Woes be the future of the world if people no longer learn from the past to try and steer the future.
OK, here are actual win-loss data:
14-19
15-17
20-12
24-12
What would the hindsight meter have predicted for the 5th and 6th rows in this table?
Nice try. How about posting all six of the CcC years, not just the first four. Which those first four you cited included much BC legacy in players and coaches. Each year involving less and less of BC legacy.
Then, keep in mind that I began to public worry mid season last year. So we can examine that trendline and see what it says.
The point is, 4 years or 6 or 7 is really not enough to conclude anything about the future. Yes, we can conclude that after 6 years Collins has not been the massive upgrade we hoped for. But can we conclude he never will be? I doubt it.
After 6 years of Fitz, 4 consecutive bowl losses and win totals of 4, 6, 8,9,7,6......we'd be in a pretty similar situation to where Collins sits. See the similarity? A peak in year 4 followed by a decline. Would you have predicted based on hindsight that he'd become the B1G COTY and win the West after these 6 seasons?
I wouldn't.
Nor I have concluded it’s over. I have said it’s looking pretty damn ugly. I have said that he needs to string together some measurable success. But if this decline continues beyond next year, all while he was finally on his recruits and his coaches, then it’s a problem. A problem worthy the hot seat.
All this talk about transfers. Yes, we need bodies. But soooo many things would have to align - transfers of value, significant growth among the returners AND some starter value among the true frosh. That’s a lot just to maybe be in the NIT conversation.
So we are looking two years away. We have no VV or Shurna to expect to lean on. Nothing proven yet. Plenty of potential and this could go either way. If it doesn’t go good two years from now, let’s see how many more folks are talking about CCC.
He’s at a crossroad.
Also, I have felt PF beat the odds. Won some he shouldn’t have. Especially with the assistant coaching problems and related positional deficiencies. But he has won, bless his heart. Won some he shouldn’t, lost others he should have won. Mmm, it’s frustrating.
I’ll play the odds. Lightening isn’t going to strike twice so soon. Relying on non-one and done true frosh, hoping to capture a high value transfer to join the worst team in the B1G, getting huge development leaps from projects and middling talent - its one hell of a wager.
And this is why some say I’m not a ‘true’ fan. Whatever. I’m a realist. Cats are not likely to succeed based on the current situation just like the Sox aren’t going to be back in the post season anytime soon. If it happens, great - I’ll be flying around posting away game reports. But if I’m wagering my money, I’ll wager no dancing over the next two years. Happy to let any of you ‘real’ fans talk with your money. (Another spoiler - too many smart people around here to make such a bad bet.)
But you offer no solution other than “do better.”
“Real” fans can be unhappy with the position of the program but still see a path forward rather than spilling thousands of words to say Taylor didn’t pan out.
There's a difference between voicing an opinion and beating a dead horse. Especially when everyone else on the board disagrees and there's evidence shown to you that said recruit was actually being heavily recruited and yet you come back with no evidence of your own and keep asking for proof of the opposing point. If you come up with proof yourself then go for it keep arguing because that actually adds good conversation but if not it just goes in circles.
I do respect you have differing opinions although I don't agree with a lot of them. I don't have a problem with you voicing them just give some facts instead of asking for them.
I'm sorry to crash your pity party, but since you're all about the facts and #fakenews, let's get the facts straight about how long you've been playing this game and throwing spaghetti at the wall.
Was it Collins' first or second year that you began this ritual?
Then of course you really stuck to your guns during the tournament season and shut your mouth.
And now here we are. Circumstances now fit your narrative.
Bob, I know you're really not into listening to much of anybody. But you really need to reconsider your approach when one of the five more respectful people out here tells you to shut the f up
you were arguing that Taylor wasn't a highly regarded transfer, and arguing that he wasn't seen as a "homerun" get. you were wrong.
your other statement holds true - but by shifting your agenda doesn't make you not wrong on taylor
I do not understand what Reinsdorf is doing with the Sox...absolutely no idea....in 78 and 79 going to Comiskey was the most exciting experience in sports
Can someone update the title or start a new thread when there is actual Charlie Moore news?
