Is it all going down the drain?
- Thread starter FeralFelidae
- Start date
I would have to say it is for this year. The team just doesn't seem to have any chemistry.
We had one outlier year of what most major programs consider decent success. Other than that, we remain Northwestern Basketball.
CCC is just about starting over. For a while it looked like CCC had solved the recruiting problem, but Vassar, injuries and transfers have gutted the team.
Too bad about Nance's health because he could be getting some valuable experience as the season ends.
Too bad about Nance's health because he could be getting some valuable experience as the season ends.
the combo of the all-state year (extrememly difficult for college kids and zero atmosphere - see most of the depaul late years) AND the combination of losing a 30 min a game ball handler and a senior leader/back-up guard are 2 back to back kill shots
next year will be like bmac frosh year version 2.0 with giving lots of minutes to the young guys
next year will be like bmac frosh year version 2.0 with giving lots of minutes to the young guys
It will be tough to accept a third poor season next year and maybe a fourth after that. The two things that have to happen are the current young guys taking big steps to becoming Big Ten-caliber starters and Collins continuing to recruit 3- and 4-stars, with maybe a shot at someone like Baldwin Jr. I think he still can recruit because he has strong institutional support and now good facilities. My concern is player development. There isn’t a single player from the freshman class who we could definitely say will be a strong starter. Gaines is in the sophomore class and has developed on both ends, though he still has a lot of untapped potential. I’m worried that next year’s team will unplug the drain, so to speak, if it ends up being another 3-5 win catastrophe rather than a 5-7 win season where you can see the future taking shape.
The new practice facilities will not be ready until this summer so I don't think we are quite there yet. We've hit a rough patch, but Collins got us past a HUGE hurdle of credibility. BIG is a tough league and we have recruiting disadvantages harder to overcome in basketball than football. Look at Indiana with all their advantages. They've lost 10 of 11 with a 5-star guy one-and-done guy at the point. I'm as frustrated as anybody and have a hard time watching this team, but I try to keep things in perspective.
There are two seniors on the team....Falzon and AJ Turner....who can choose to play elsewhere. Losing either would hurt.
Respectfully disagree on the frosh. Kopp has started and, I'd argue, has progressed. Nance was starting to have an impact and getting more and more time. Greer has played like a decent freshman PG....up and down. With the experience of this year and the summer to train and practice it's likely that all three make a jump, and possible that one makes a huge leap. It would be good for Nance to play in more conference games and get bumped around a little so he knows what he has to do this summer.
We don't know about Taylor but Haywood says he'll play next year which is a good sign. Four years ago Haywood told us that Pardon would have the biggest impact (Falzon, Brown) in his class. Benson is playing more which is good for next year. The big from Alabama looks terriffic on film, but he'll be a frosh moving up a level.
I think next year will be much more fun to watch than this year. A PG or two on the floor all the time will be a big help. The offense will get a bit better, the D a bit worse as teh roster gets younger.
The 20 and '21 classes will be huge for Collins.
" Down the drain??"
I mean the ongoing naivete of the last few weeks is getting ridiculous. Did you REALLY expect there would be one tournament and suddenly all NU problems would be solved? Tournaments and tournament bubbles every year?
Of course, there are problems. The tournament team was far from a juggernaut also.
But, contrary to the basketball brilliance of many of the usual suspects over the last few weeks, there are also some signs of hope. Some of the issues with this group have already been addressed on these last two classes.
Have all the problems been addressed? Not in the slightest!! I agree with anyone who is still concerned about the point next year.
But if you get a tournament team in '21 or '22, you can walk into a kid's living room with a fighting chance. It's a great story as it was over the last couple recruiting years. "This isn't a one-time thing. We need to do it more regularly, and we need your help."
And if NU is still in this state of blah, by then, yes, it's probably time to cut the cord.
I mean the ongoing naivete of the last few weeks is getting ridiculous. Did you REALLY expect there would be one tournament and suddenly all NU problems would be solved? Tournaments and tournament bubbles every year?
Of course, there are problems. The tournament team was far from a juggernaut also.
But, contrary to the basketball brilliance of many of the usual suspects over the last few weeks, there are also some signs of hope. Some of the issues with this group have already been addressed on these last two classes.
Have all the problems been addressed? Not in the slightest!! I agree with anyone who is still concerned about the point next year.
But if you get a tournament team in '21 or '22, you can walk into a kid's living room with a fighting chance. It's a great story as it was over the last couple recruiting years. "This isn't a one-time thing. We need to do it more regularly, and we need your help."
And if NU is still in this state of blah, by then, yes, it's probably time to cut the cord.
A) I think losing both Turner and Falzon might hurt. But losing one of them? Eh.
Unfortunately, Falzon has shown to be who he was - a once every three or four game guy.
And I've said enough about Turner.
B) You meant Turner will play next year, right? Please don't tell me I need to suffer through another year of the Taylor experience.
Why? You could argue Falzon won us one game. I doubt Turner has been a positive on offense or defense. I'd rather have those scholarships back and make some headway on changing admissions standards.
I think he meant Young, the redshirt big. Falzon may not be scoring right now, but he is not actively hurting this team. Saturday's game was the first game that he hasn't finished with a positive +/- since Nance got sick, and he finished even, though with one extra offensive possession. Turner, on the other hand, finished -9 for the game in only 12 minutes, the offense was worse when he was on the court and we may as well have not played defense when he was out there.
The whole transfer thing is interesting. I thought it applied primarily to the big boys, but apparently it has filtered down to the lower levels of BB. I was talking to the former sports information director of my Division II alma mater at a game there the other day. The present coach has totally resurrected our program there, which hadn't had much better than a Northwestern-style history in basketball. Over the last three seasons he's won the school's second-ever conference championship, made the Division II Sweet Sixteen last year, and has a 19-6 record so far this season despite losing three talented seniors. I was remarking on how many players on the roster came from western Pa., and the former SID said many of the college coaches in that part of state have been building with transfers, leaving some good four-year prospects on the table. Our coach prefers to get kids in as a frosh and develop them, and it seems to be working out.
I heard a statistic on ESPNU radio last week that amazed me: 40% of Division I basketball players transfer by the end of their Soph year. This covers more than 330 schools, from Majors to HBCU. In that respect NU is actually below average.....
And wasn't somebody challenging me recently when I opined that Lathon would probably leave UTEP in a year or two for Power 5 program? I guess 40% of players are ok sitting a year - which makes sense to me.
Not all of these kids go to other Division I programs, some realize they are better suited for Division II or III or NAIA and therefore don't sit-out a year.
But you have a 40% chance of being right about Lathon!
And when some of the smaller Division I schools get good players, they might just turn around and transfer to the more top-end Division I schools. Mount St. Mary's, which is not far from where I live, had a nice squad a couple of seasons back, but had 2-3 of them transfer out. I was told by a guy in the athletic department over there that it really disheartened the coach, and the Mount is really scuffling this year.
I'd like $100 million and for Hillary Swank to not be able to keep her hands off of me
That's called cleaning house. All of the transfers have had mediocre to bad seasons at lesser programs. Indiana is about to do the same thing.
They've already made some headway. "They" referring to NU athletics generally. It used to be cut and dry if a kid didn't get in, he couldn't get in.
I've had unnatural thoughts about Hillary Swank for years
Good, than you must be able to name a number of Power-5 basketball teams that have had six or more transfers out in a single season. Oh and Mark Smith says hi! Is shooting 47% from 3 mediocre?
Excellent post. It's like everyone thought we were suddenly, say, Iowa.
I dont know about Helen Thomas, but if you want to know how soon the basketball team will be back on track, go to Helen Waite
We could ask why many of our recruits failed to develop. But most don’t want to hear the logical answer.
You’re right, Mark has had an incredible season shooting. But he wasn’t run off. He and Underwood didn’t mesh, and he struggled with seeing Frazier take his spot as the alpha on the team. It happens. I wish it would have worked out, he’s a good player and he went to our rival so we have to play him every year until he graduates. It stings less knowing that we have two other guards on the roster who are better than him. But I still wish he had stayed at Illinois.
Im not really worried about players developing. Collins has developed his players incredibly on defense, and even on offense. Pardon, gaines.
Benson is improving and all others. However we are at ground zero with Point Guard and that obviously is the deal breaker. We just arent big and powerful enough to overcome that.
Wouldn't exactly say that.
Even during the Tourney year, the O was average when it came to offensive efficiency and in most years has been near the bottom.
And as I have noted in a diff. thread, the wings under CC haven't been that great when it has come to FG%.
Pardon, otoh, has shown great improvement all around - but a lot of that credit goes to Pardon's own hard work.
But it's not just that (injuries transfers, etc.) - part of the problem is that too few of CC's recruits end up as impact frosh (at least 1 in each class needs to be an impact frosh).
How would much better would this team be w/ an Ayo, THT or a frosh Coffey?
UMD has 3 frosh who are significant contributors.
Aside from BMac and Law, there haven't been impact players as frosh despite the improvement in recruiting ratings.
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He's the only guy that's played decent, and he's been completely one dimensional and can't guard. He is a good shooter though, but he was unable to play our defensive scheme.
Also, might want to fact check yourself. We had five transfers. Eboigbodin, Vesel, and Lucas all were midmajor talents. Finke could've been a nice role player, but he didn't do anything this season until he started playing bad WAC teams. Black got his degree, got married, and went pro in Europe.
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