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Johnnie Vassar

Catdude

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Below is the link to the Vice Sports article by former Inside NU writer Kevin Trahan. It expands on some of the details that were included in the lawsuit. The craziest (and most disturbing) part of the story is the allegedly doctored time cards. It sounds like Vassar has solid evidence of that (and NU even agreed with his appeal and gave him an academic scholarship in place of the athletic one) but I'd like to think that nobody at NU, particularly Collins or Phillips, is dumb or unethical enough to do or authorize something like that.

The other complaints either deal with the NCAA (inability to transfer without sitting out a year) or are seemingly more distasteful (abusive language and strongly encouraging Vassar to transfer) than illegal.
https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/did-northwestern-basketball-run-off-johnnie-vassar
 
Came to the board to link this and offer the forthcoming rant. Teddy has a reaction column here: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...-vassar-lawsuit-spt-0330-20170329-column.html

I re-read Vassar's original petition and most of the major stories about his case after Selection Sunday, mainly because I didn't want to feel like a hypocrite after criticizing fans of other programs with their heads buried in the sand. This story doesn't uncover anything new, nor does it change my opinion that NU basically acted like a major-conference basketball program ... our tactics were unseemly, but not all that alarming.

It seems certain that Collins and the staff regretted signing Vassar and tried in some form to get him off the roster. The number of stories over the years about us recruiting so-and-so without an open scholarship is a clear sign that they wanted and expected him out. You could call Kipper Nichols' play against us in two games this year Vassar's Revenge. It also wouldn't shock me if Collins yelled at Vassar, or if Baldwin and others pushed Johnnie to sign paperwork to open the slot.

NU filed a response in the lawsuit that implicitly acknowledges a lot of Johnnie's claims, including that he had a facilities internship. Some might say that's demeaning work for a college basketball player. Others might say 8 hours a week for a $250,000 degree is the best bargain in Evanston. It doesn't bother me that Johnnie didn't get to pick his internship.

If we falsified time sheets to try to frame Vassar for fraud, that's a huge problem and a firing offense for anyone involved.

Otherwise, the whole thing is unseemly and speaks to the NCAA's flawed rules, but it doesn't bother me enough to reconsider rooting for NU. I also think the faction of people beating the drum on this are either a) Carmody supporters who haven't come out of the forest yet (as if BC never had issues keeping players from fleeing the team) or b) people who are a little naive about the law. Anyone who gets worked up about NU offering to "pay Vassar to go away" has never heard of a settlement, for example.
 
... Carmody supporters who haven't come out of the forest yet (as if BC never had issues keeping players from fleeing the team) ...

Yet, so many of them conveniently ignored the names Coble, Good or Towne as part of their "indignation" about the direction of college sports. Suddenly, it just surfaced as part of the Collins regime.

There's some good questions here that should be asked about running off players and the rights of the student athletes. Let's not forget the screwball time cards on the NU micro level.

But it's pretty obvious those are distant concerns to many pitifully looking for the Collins "gotcha" .... four years later.

Of course, I might just be one of those people who the jerkoff hypocrites consider heads, sand, etc.
 
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This story doesn't uncover anything new, nor does it change my opinion that NU basically acted like a major-conference basketball program ... our tactics were unseemly, but not all that alarming.

It seems certain that Collins and the staff regretted signing Vassar and tried in some form to get him off the roster. The number of stories over the years about us recruiting so-and-so without an open scholarship is a clear sign that they wanted and expected him out. You could call Kipper Nichols' play against us in two games this year Vassar's Revenge. It also wouldn't shock me if Collins yelled at Vassar, or if Baldwin and others pushed Johnnie to sign paperwork to open the slot.

I agree with all of this. There's nothing particularly unusual about pushing players out, especially at this level of basketball. Collins is not the first NU coach to do so and he won't be the last. Frankly, I don't think there's a coach in America that hasn't at least tried to push unwanted players out. There's a conversation to be had about whether this is appropriate -- it isn't -- but that's an issue with college athletics as a whole, not NU in particular. Coaches are paid to win, and "we honorably kept this player around to our own detriment" will not fly as an excuse in the face of angry alumni demanding more wins. It does deflate some of the holier-than-thou "we do things the right way" talk, though.

However...

NU filed a response in the lawsuit that implicitly acknowledges a lot of Johnnie's claims, including that he had a facilities internship. Some might say that's demeaning work for a college basketball player. Others might say 8 hours a week for a $250,000 degree is the best bargain in Evanston. It doesn't bother me that Johnnie didn't get to pick his internship.

Without getting into the morality weeds, it's also quite probably an NCAA violation to institute a work requirement for an athletic scholarship. I hope this part isn't true.

If we falsified time sheets to try to frame Vassar for fraud, that's a huge problem and a firing offense for anyone involved.

Yes. There should be a thorough investigation into this, as forging time cards could amount to a criminal act, not just an NCAA violation. Those time sheets are so unconvincing it defies belief that someone would try to pass them off as real, but they're in the complaint.
 
Trahan...lol. He's still angry/bitter that Carmody got fired and hates the current program because is it. His Twitter buddies are DocCatsFan, Doc Jr, Robbie Carmody (yep, Bill's son), and other stalwarts like msnow and the Carmody Court guy. They spout they're little anti-NU Hoops stuff in their tiny little vacuum over there.

So pathetic...
 
Without getting into the morality weeds, it's also quite probably an NCAA violation to institute a work requirement for an athletic scholarship. I hope this part isn't true.

I think Vassar signed an agreement converting his athletic scholarship into a non-competition scholarship that stipulated he do an internship. Whether he was coerced to sign the agreement or whether NU was skirting scholarship rules will probably determine what, if any, sanctions we receive. It may be a very, very lucky break that we didn't fill that scholarship in the end and risk having an ineligible player on the floor in Salt Lake City.
 
I am a little confused.....I thought that NCAA athletic scholarships were currently one year scholarships renewed every year ? If so then what was the issue? Does the school have an option of making it more than a one year deal?
 
I am a little confused.....I thought that NCAA athletic scholarships were currently one year scholarships renewed every year ? If so then what was the issue? Does the school have an option of making it more than a one year deal?
All Big Ten scholarships are four-year schollies. All the Power-5 conferences have followed suit, I believe. The NCAA mandates one-year schollies as a minimum, but schools may make four-year agreements with athletes with the terms laid out in the agreement. Vassar has definitely made the most of this arrangement.
 
Trahan...lol. He's still angry/bitter that Carmody got fired and hates the current program because is it. His Twitter buddies are DocCatsFan, Doc Jr, Robbie Carmody (yep, Bill's son), and other stalwarts like msnow and the Carmody Court guy. They spout they're little anti-NU Hoops stuff in their tiny little vacuum over there.

So pathetic...
He always put a negative spin on the administration if he could and this hit piece is pathetic. Players don't always fit like coaches and other players thought they would. It's ok to move on and nothing about this article changes anything that's been presented before.

What strikes me as the two most glaring and obvious lies are the "series of unfortunate events" and the fact that the only schools that wanted him to transfer wanted him only if he could play right away. As somebody that transferred no college coach in the world would ever say that. It's standard you sit out unless a situation warrants the transfer.
 
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Trahan is a snowflake cuck. He's always put a negative spin on the administration if he could and this hit piece is pathetic. Players don't always fit like coaches and other players thought they would. It's ok to move on and nothing about this article changes anything that's been presented before.

What strikes me as the two most glaring and obvious lies are the "series of unfortunate events" and the fact that the only schools that wanted him to transfer wanted him only if he could play right away. As somebody that transferred no college coach in the world would ever say that. It's standard you sit out unless a situation warrants the transfer.

I used to be a fan of Johnnie Vassar's, but this whole thing has soured me on him.

Claiming that the University put out an announcement on his transfer without his knowledge? What about the tweet where he announced HIS decision to transfer? That and the fact that Northwestern never actually got a player to replace him, even now and even after he was counted as a non-roster player doesn't jive well with the story.

Recruiting kids while a kid is considering transferring doesn't strike me as odd.

Working as a janitor being a complaint? Sheesh. What does that tell you about a kid, especially when supposedly a ton of people felt he didn't work hard (maybe tells you something about why Collins maybe didn't want him on the team).

The falsified time cards is the only problematic thing, IF that proves itself to be true. Given the author, I cannot but find it wholly lacking credibility.

In any case, this hit piece only tells one side of the story. I imagine the truth is somewhere in between. Collins probably did swear at the kid out of frustration. What he was quoted as saying has absolutely nothing on Kevin O'Neill, who would berate his players publicly during the games for all to hear ("F you Molnar, you suck!"). He most certainly did talk to him about playing time, role, and transferring. Nothing wrong with that at all. I doubt Johnnie was so innocent in all of this as the hit piece claims. Almost assuredly, the kid was also not happy with his role on the team and made that clear. His attitude, perhaps a lack of work ethic (given what his work colleagues said, I imagine that wasn't just limited to the his role as a janitor), would likely be poisons to the team's chemistry, so I'm not surprised if Collins also stepped up to the plate to try to "run him off."

Heres the thing. Other kids with limited roles, such as Jordan Ash, David Soboliewski, even Nate Taphorn - why weren't they run off? They probably were told similar things like Vassar- the honest truth - what their roles were going to be and they likely made their decisions to stay. Turner, Abrahamson, Ajou, Kreisburg - they got the same, and decided to leave. Abrahamson's description about what went down sounds about right. Johnnie just couldn't deal with it. The whole bit about all these power 5's wanting him if he didn't have to sit out a year seems laughable. If he wanted to play so much, why not just go to a mid-major? Or did he feel like he was too good for that (noticing a pattern here)?
 
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NU filed a response in the lawsuit that implicitly acknowledges a lot of Johnnie's claims, . . . .
Be careful in interpreting NU's response as containing admissions. What NU filed was a motion to dismiss at the very front end of the lawsuit. For that type of motion, the court (and the movant) must take the factual allegations in the complaint as true, even if they aren't. The movant is essentially arguing that even if all the allegations in the complaint were true, the complaint does not make a legally sufficient claim and should be dismissed. If the court denies the motion to dismiss, the parties will conduct fact discovery. After that, NU would likely file a motion for summary judgment in which it can use facts learned in discovery to argue, among other things, that the facts alleged in the complaint are not true. At that time, NU would be free to tell its own side of the story.
 
If Vassar was half as good as what he and his mom think he is, he'd be playing somewhere else. His arrogance is part of the reason he's no longer with the program. No college is going to touch him now.

There is so much more to this story...
 
If Vassar was half as good as what he and his mom think he is, he'd be playing somewhere else. His arrogance is part of the reason he's no longer with the program. No college is going to touch him now.

There is so much more to this story...

Pray tell....
 
There are several parts to this. The two most significant...

* Vassar isn't and was never going to be a Big Ten point guard. Mistake to recruit him and he doesn't seem to get this. He seems to believe the buzz from eighth grade;

* NU offered him four years and he's getting the sheepskin. It was not a straight-line, but it's happening. NU clearly puts academics and the student ahead of sports.

Part of the story, but not as significant....

* Vassar's internship was poorly handled or worse. Investigate and bring into the light of day and live with the results;

* Vassar was unrealistic about his internship. If, when I was his age, I complained about assigned tasks -- like cleaning bathrooms which I did -- I would have been fired. But I needed the job so I kept my mouth shut and worked;

* The bit about "no schools would offer unless I was allowed to play immediately" should be translated to the lay audience: "No schools you may have wanted, wanted you."

Vassar may not be solidly tethered to his reality which leads to.....

* An opportunistic lawyer is using Vassar like a tool in a much larger tool box/class action against the NCAA. All Vassar has to do is trash NU, specifically Coach Collins and the athletic department;

Let's be clear, Vassar will get no money from the suit. Nada. He should think about the education he's receiving, it's value and how it sets him up for life. And shut up.

He may be correct that Collins is a dick, or that someone in the athletic department wanted him out. OK. That's life. But making the most of your situation is not trashing the university that's giving you the free education.

Any business that receives his resume and thinks about bringing him in is going to do a google search. Continuing on this path is just not a smart career move.
 
He may be correct that Collins is a dick, or that someone in the athletic department wanted him out. OK. That's life. But making the most of your situation is not trashing the university that's giving you the free education.

Any business that receives his resume and thinks about bringing him in is going to do a google search. Continuing on this path is just not a smart career move.

I'm not going to condemn Vassar for speaking up if he feels he was mistreated. "Keep your head down and your mouth shut" often turns workplaces into a game of who can tolerate the most abuse from management. If he wasn't mistreated, that's why we have a court system to judge his claims.
 
I'm not going to condemn Vassar for speaking up if he feels he was mistreated. "Keep your head down and your mouth shut" often turns workplaces into a game of who can tolerate the most abuse from management. If he wasn't mistreated, that's why we have a court system to judge his claims.

Yeah, this is veering into "other college fans and their hypocrisy" territory. Vassar should speak up if he feels wronged. It's the media that need to put these claims into perspective and think about what they don't know yet. I haven't seen anyone quote Vassar on what he thinks he could have done better.
 
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I'd love to encourage everyone to pump the brakes on this story a little bit, especially the former InsideNU writers. To this point we still have yet to get much of any of Chris Collins and the University's side of the story (and I'm willing to bet that they have a very different version of the story to tell, and evidence to prove it). We likely won't get the program's side of the story until the law suit goes to court, unless there is a settlement.

I understand that sports writers, especially young ones, want to publish hard hitting journalism that forces people to think and reaches some story/truth that goes beyond the court, field etc. However I think it's extremely easy to jump on a moral high horse and condemn Northwestern athletics as "no better than the rest" on the perspective and evidence supplied by a single individual that has yet to be challenged. I don't necessarily blame the writers as much as I blame the institution of journalism as a whole. Sensationalism drives clicks and clicks make money. For a journalist, it pays to make big claims and invoke a reaction out of the audience, and it only gets easier when there isn't a responding party to challenge those claims.

This isn't to say that Vassar's allegations aren't concerning... I find them to be very troubling. But I'm not ready to write off Northwestern as just another school caught up in major college sports that puts winning before everything, at least until I get their response to this whole mess.
 
There are several parts to this. The two most significant...

* Vassar isn't and was never going to be a Big Ten point guard. Mistake to recruit him and he doesn't seem to get this. He seems to believe the buzz from eighth grade;

As far as I know, that's the one thing that Coach Chris did wrong. He reached on Johnnie when everybody knew about Johnnie's peripatetic HS career.

As you might know, I'm saying this as someone who knows Johnnie a little bit and I like him. But Coach Chris should have known better. I bet that if Coach could be candid about the recruitment, he would say exactly that--it was a reach and they should have known better.

Lesson learned. Good.

* Vassar was unrealistic about his internship. If, when I was his age, I complained about assigned tasks -- like cleaning bathrooms which I did -- I would have been fired. But I needed the job so I kept my mouth shut and worked;

I agree with that, except having him clean up after his fellow student-athlete was designed to be punitive and humiliating. They were trying to drive him off.

Then there's the entire time sheet fiasco. As far as I know, Coach had nothing to do with it, but someone well-meaning (i.e., someone with NU's best interests at heart) went too far.

Johnnie is a head strong guy. Coach's program wasn't a good fit for him. It's a black eye on NU, but ultimately Coach Chris probably accepts the blame for bringing him here. Then Coach tried desperately to "fix" the mistake and pry open that scholarship spot. Again, lesson learned and hopefully everybody can move on.
 
If he wanted to play so much, why not just go to a mid-major? Or did he feel like he was too good for that (noticing a pattern here)?

It's more about trading in an NU diploma for a mid-major school diploma. Should he have transferred to Mississippi Valley State? That would have been a huge step down in terms of basketball but also in terms of the value of the diploma.

Johnnie is not dumb; he wasn't going to give up an NU diploma for Akron or Toledo. (Not that they're bad schools, but they're not NU.) None of us would have done that, so why should we condemn him for wanting a comparable offer?

You're better off complaining about his body language or how he got along with people in the program. I'm sure that even Johnnie would admit that he could always improve as a person.
 
I understand that sports writers, especially young ones, want to publish hard hitting journalism that forces people to think and reaches some story/truth that goes beyond the court, field etc. However I think it's extremely easy to jump on a moral high horse and condemn Northwestern athletics as "no better than the rest" on the perspective and evidence supplied by a single individual that has yet to be challenged.

I know and like Kevin, but I agree with you that the story isn't over and it's unbalanced. The NU parties couldn't talk and we're left with a story that doesn't present an objective view. Disappointing.
 
He always put a negative spin on the administration if he could and this hit piece is pathetic. Players don't always fit like coaches and other players thought they would. It's ok to move on and nothing about this article changes anything that's been presented before.

What strikes me as the two most glaring and obvious lies are the "series of unfortunate events" and the fact that the only schools that wanted him to transfer wanted him only if he could play right away. As somebody that transferred no college coach in the world would ever say that. It's standard you sit out unless a situation warrants the transfer.

That's the thing. If this was written by some unbiased writer who has shown an inkling of support for NU athletics over the last 5 years, it might be worth reading. Instead, the two main articles were written by two guys (Trahan and Ben Goren, aka Doc Jr.) who have literally hated NU basketball and athletics since the day Carmody was fired, and have had a major axe to grind since that day. They've spewed nothing but hate since day 1,and never shown any kind of support (including before the Vassar situation).

These articles are absolutely just attempted smear campaigns out of bitterness. The Vassar situation has simply been a vessel that's been manipulated for the sake of hating Collins and Phillips by jaded former fans. That's the truth. These guys are pathetic and just need to move on with their lives.
 
Then there's the entire time sheet fiasco. As far as I know, Coach had nothing to do with it, but someone well-meaning (i.e., someone with NU's best interests at heart) went too far.
Consistent with Commodore's post above, I would encourage folks to pump the brakes a bit on the timecard issue as well. It might very well be a bad story for NU, but I can envision at least a couple of possible fact scenarios based on what little we know publicly that would be consistent with NU doing nothing wrong. Let's let the facts come out through the litigation before reaching any conclusions.
 
That's the thing. If this was written by some unbiased writer who has shown an inkling of support for NU athletics over the last 5 years, it might be worth reading. Instead, the two main articles were written by two guys (Trahan and Ben Goren, aka Doc Jr.) who have literally hated NU basketball and athletics since the day Carmody was fired, and have had a major axe to grind since that day. They've spewed nothing but hate since day 1,and never shown any kind of support (including before the Vassar situation).

These articles are absolutely just attempted smear campaigns out of bitterness. The Vassar situation has simply been a vessel that's been manipulated for the sake of hating Collins and Phillips by jaded former fans. That's the truth. These guys are pathetic and just need to move on with their lives.
The timing of Trahan's piece arguably is consistent with your interpretation. After all, there have been no significant new developments since last fall regarding Vassar that merited new reporting--other than NU reaching the NCAA tournament and enjoying a lot of positive press.
 
That's the thing. If this was written by some unbiased writer who has shown an inkling of support for NU athletics over the last 5 years, it might be worth reading. Instead, the two main articles were written by two guys (Trahan and Ben Goren, aka Doc Jr.) who have literally hated NU basketball and athletics since the day Carmody was fired, and have had a major axe to grind since that day. They've spewed nothing but hate since day 1,and never shown any kind of support (including before the Vassar situation).

These articles are absolutely just attempted smear campaigns out of bitterness. The Vassar situation has simply been a vessel that's been manipulated for the sake of hating Collins and Phillips by jaded former fans. That's the truth. These guys are pathetic and just need to move on with their lives.

Oh yeah, it's a hate crime. Simmer down.
 
Oh yeah, it's a hate crime. Simmer down.

Holy overreaction, Batman! Where did anyone ever equate it with a "hate crime?"

It's fair to question the bias of the writers (each of whom have demonstrated consistent animosity toward Collins and have a decidedly anti-NCAA bent in both the Colter/NCPA and Vassar situations) and timing of the article (as I'm unaware of any material developments in the Vassar situation since the anti-trust suit was filed in November 2016). Trahan met with Vassar and his mother "recently" per the Vice article, which indicates that he likely initiated the meeting request in the past couple weeks, during which there weren't any material developments... besides, you know, NU making the NCAA tournament.

EDIT: Maybe I've got my tin foil hat on a little too tightly, but the release of the article just before (or at the same time as, hard to tell the exact timeline) Vassar files his response to NU's motion for dismissal feels just a little too convenient.
 
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That is true!!!
I, for one, respect and appreciate your discretion. Even if I would be interested in hearing, not much benefit to airing unnecessary (potentially negative) details about one of our student athletes, especially when there is a legal matter outstanding. Regardless of what happened or how bad anything on either side was, it's not worth it to tarnish his name. I trust the university and athletic dept to take care of it.
 
I, for one, respect and appreciate your discretion. Even if I would be interested in hearing, not much benefit to airing unnecessary (potentially negative) details about one of our student athletes, especially when there is a legal matter outstanding. Regardless of what happened or how bad anything on either side was, it's not worth it to tarnish his name. I trust the university and athletic dept to take care of it.

While I am sure you didn't mean it, the last two sentences of your post read together are pretty ominous.
 
The timing of Trahan's piece arguably is consistent with your interpretation. After all, there have been no significant new developments since last fall regarding Vassar that merited new reporting--other than NU reaching the NCAA tournament and enjoying a lot of positive press.

FWIW, if you look at the comments on Inside NU, Trahan posted 10-15 bullet points outlining new information in the piece. There aren't any dramatic new revelations about the case but the piece corroborates some of Vassar's claims from the suit.
 
I agree with that, except having him clean up after his fellow student-athlete was designed to be punitive and humiliating. They were trying to drive him off.

Johnnie is a head strong guy. Coach's program wasn't a good fit for him. It's a black eye on NU, but ultimately Coach Chris probably accepts the blame for bringing him here. Then Coach tried desperately to "fix" the mistake and pry open that scholarship spot. Again, lesson learned and hopefully everybody can move on.

I didn't like cleaning the bathrooms that my coworkers used, but I did it because I was then able to pay for school and graduate in four years debt free. I never thought it was beneath me and understood that I was the low man. I do find it objectionable if he wasn't treated the same as the other interns. So, if interns were free to transfer around into other roles, but he was not, that's a real problem. But, frankly, I get the sense that he would have found fault with any job.

Re the "head strong guy".....it served him well in securing his four-year NU degree and not letting the Athletic Department push him around. But he should really step back and ask what's to be gained and lost from the continued public bashing of Collins and the university that is educating him for free. Like one of the freedom caucus members said after resigning from the group this past week, "sometimes you have to take the victory and move on."
 
Re the "head strong guy".....it served him well in securing his four-year NU degree and not letting the Athletic Department push him around.

Along with this, the most heartening thing about the story IMO is that the university sided with Vassar against the athletic department in his appeal. There are far too many schools out there where that would never, ever happen.
 
Along with this, the most heartening thing about the story IMO is that the university sided with Vassar against the athletic department in his appeal. There are far too many schools out there where that would never, ever happen.

The exact same thing happened to a young woman -- friend of my daughter -- who is on a full ride at another Big Ten school. She was concerned that specifics of the workout regimen threatened injury and refused. The coach tried to drive her off. The athletic director told her, "don't worry, you're set for school until you graduate."

The athletic department is supposed to keep the various team coaches in line.

The administration is supposed to keep the athletic department in line.

The system worked. It would be far more disturbing if he was interviewed from his dorm at Towson University where he had a 1:5 (assists to turnovers) ratio last season.
 
While I am sure you didn't mean it, the last two sentences of your post read together are pretty ominous.
Haha I'm pretty sure I meant the exact opposite of what you might be thinking those two sentences could read as?

Anyways just saying I respect Kelly not wanting to voice whatever other side of the story. I'm sure athletics will get their viewpoint out there when it makes sense to do so. And if not then it's a private dispute settled privately which is fine too. I've never gotten why people are so obsessed about the details of this issue... either the scholarship is there or it's not. Aside from that, barring serious bad conduct by the NU folks, what's done is done and doesn't really matter... but I also never really cared about the details of the Coble thing either, so who knows. Best for me just to stay out of it.
 
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Along with this, the most heartening thing about the story IMO is that the university sided with Vassar against the athletic department in his appeal. There are far too many schools out there where that would never, ever happen.

I too give NU credit but there's not much choice when someone is falsifying time sheets. That's very serious.
 
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