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Johnnie Vassar

I know Teddy Greenstein pretty well and he'll raise an eyebrow on Twitter to a rough comment every once in a while. Teddy's not an amateur, either.

Point is, NU fans should have more class than to resort to personal attacks.
I have a problem with someone that takes heresay for fact. Someone that reports only one side of the story knowing that the side will publicly tarnish NU. I know the athletic department, as well as Joe who is mentioned from facilities in Trahan's article. Trahan jumps to huge conclusions and takes everything for fact without knowing the full story. I have a problem with this. The kid constantly drags NU through the mud. Having been part of two D1 programs I can wholeheartedly tell you NU does it right. Other schools do not. You have bad apples everywhere, but NU is light years better than most athletic programs. We should all let this play out. Nothing here is even that big of a deal, as Vassar is getting a $200k+ education and if he truly wanted to play basketball he could have done so elsewhere. I did it with baseball when bad circumstances arose.
 
I know Teddy Greenstein pretty well and he'll raise an eyebrow on Twitter to a rough comment every once in a while. Teddy's not an amateur, either.

Point is, NU fans should have more class than to resort to personal attacks.

Big difference between raising an eyebrow on Twitter and what Kevin is doing now with his hyperposting in the InsideNU comments on his and Ben's articles. I doubt Teddy hyperposts in the comments sections of his and his colleagues articles. What Kevin is doing absolutely screams "unprofessional" to me.
 
Missing the point. I did a lot of the same kind of work as a work study as a frosh. But that was my choice. Johnnie was directed to that position and they knew how uncomfortable and embarrassing that it would be to him. It wasn't embarrassing to me to clean up after people because it was my choice to pick that work study assignment and it wasn't assigned to me as a punitive job. I assume that your $5/hr job was not punitive and was not assigned to you on purpose to embarrass you.

(Now whether or not Johnnie should have been embarrassed or if he should have just sucked it up and done his work, that's another topic. The point is, somebody at NU intended to put Johnnie in an awkward spot as a punishment.)
You are being really charitable. How do you know he was intentionally put in an awkward situation to punish him? How are you so sure? Where is the evidence of this intent? Sure, it fits the conspiracy narrative but there is zero proof of intent. An equally valid assertion would be that the best work study jobs were filled and JV got the dregs of the lot.
 
My response to you was indeed about your remark, "But, frankly, I get the sense that he would have found fault with any job." I know Johnnie and that's a bit too far. Unless you know him, too, then try not to paint the guy with such broad strokes. That's all I meant.

Fair enough
 
... But these writers keep trying to sell us on Collins being this amoral, dark figure who sold our soul for an NCAA bid. Outside of the Vassar case, I don't think they have much evidence ...

And if it isn't obvious by now, that's my complete problem with this ridiculous direction. The key phrase is that they "keep trying."

If their true concern was NU's lack of direction in athletics, the Coble story completely enhances their narrative with similarities all over the place. Yet somehow the guys who don't want anything about college athletics swept under the rug ... always sweep that one under the rug. Instead, the poor comparison of the Abrahamson transfer gets dragged across the computer screen a couple times a year with the only similarity being the head coach and a bitchy, dissatisfied player. Can't find too many of those in college basketball.

This isn't a one-or-two article thing. This is YEARS of this garbage. This isn't journalism. It's the National Enquirier to a very specific market.

The Vassar story has more than enough smoke to its fire. And any strong journalist should be able to carry the story on its own merit.
 
And if it isn't obvious by now, that's my complete problem with this ridiculous direction. The key phrase is that they "keep trying."

If their true concern was NU's lack of direction in athletics, the Coble story completely enhances their narrative with similarities all over the place. Yet somehow the guys who don't want anything about college athletics swept under the rug ... always sweep that one under the rug. Instead, the poor comparison of the Abrahamson transfer gets dragged across the computer screen a couple times a year with the only similarity being the head coach and a bitchy, dissatisfied player. Can't find too many of those in college basketball.

This isn't a one-or-two article thing. This is YEARS of this garbage. This isn't journalism. It's the National Enquirier to a very specific market.

The Vassar story has more than enough smoke to its fire. And any strong journalist should be able to carry the story on its own merit.
Julie Decaro invited Trahan on ESPN radio tonight. I can't imagine what that interview was like. Part of me is waiting for the barstool guys to hop on this and destroy Trahan (the stoolies are not fans of Julie)
 
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An equally valid assertion would be that the best work study jobs were filled and JV got the dregs of the lot.

Sure, apart from where the complaint specifically alleges that other jobs came open and he wasn't allowed to take them.

Julie Decaro invited Trahan on ESPN radio tonight. I can't imagine what that interview was like. Part of me is waiting for the barstool guys to hop on this and destroy Trahan (the stoolies are not fans of Julie)

It was a very straightforward interview. The bulk of it rehashed the content of the article and then she asked a couple of followup questions. Not sure what you were expecting.
 
If you actually read my post it made complete sense, although you could argue with my first sentence.

Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

That sentence made it as terrible a post as I've seen around here.
 
Okay, but you specifically brought up "mid majors" and I specifically responded to that comment. Now you're bringing up the Ivies, but that wasn't your original comment.

Yeah, I brought up the mid-majors and stand by it. If he's going to find going to schools like Utah and DePaul alluring, then Akron and Toledo should be fine too. It's not about getting an NU degree vs. Akron, Utah or DePaul. For him, it's about playing time and being a big part of a team where he can shine. Utah and DePaul are a reach, just as NU is. He should settle on Akron and Toledo.
 
Missing the point. I did a lot of the same kind of work as a work study as a frosh. But that was my choice. Johnnie was directed to that position and they knew how uncomfortable and embarrassing that it would be to him. It wasn't embarrassing to me to clean up after people because it was my choice to pick that work study assignment and it wasn't assigned to me as a punitive job. I assume that your $5/hr job was not punitive and was not assigned to you on purpose to embarrass you.

(Now whether or not Johnnie should have been embarrassed or if he should have just sucked it up and done his work, that's another topic. The point is, somebody at NU intended to put Johnnie in an awkward spot as a punishment.)

Quite a projection I think. Can you honestly say you know for a fact that he was given that job specifically to put him in an awkward spot? A reach.
 
This story is way overblown. Did somebody die here? Vassar is still on full scholarship, right? He could have transferred (which apparently was his original intention per his tweet) and sat out a year if he wanted to play so badly and if someone really wanted him to play for them. I can sure see why no other team apparently wanted this guy. He needs to finish his degree and move on.

Compare this to the story of what happened to Sammy Maldonaldo and many a Buckeye. NU does it the right way.
 
This story is way overblown.

I am in full agreement with this. The umbrage of people on both sides of the argument is silly.

Of course, it is possible that NU and Chris Collins have built a solid program through a general practice of getting the right kinds of players, promoting strong values and trying to do things the right way--AND that they also make mistakes.

Anyone who tries to claim that NU is without fault is kidding themself. Meanwhile, anyone who tries to lump NU into the same bucket as programs with consistent records of shady practices or a serious lack of institutional control is being obtuse.

As someone who runs a business and earnestly strives to do things the right way, I fully acknowledge there are situations I/we could have handled better and also some flat out mistakes that I/we have made over the years--things that could look ugly taken in isolation. But you learn from those mistakes and try to do better moving forward--and your mistakes don't negate your achievements. Nobody is perfect, no organization is perfect. This is a fact of life.

It doesn't have to be that either: a) NU/CC are perfect and Vasser was totally unreasonable OR b) NU has become a shady program and our recent achievements mean nothing.

Maybe there will be consequences with the NCAA for the handling of this situation, and maybe there should be. But heads don't have to roll. These allegations are not the worst thing in the world, and I see no real pattern as Vasser is the only CC recruit to drop/be dropped from the team. The staff and NU will learn from this and continue to move forward trying to do things the right way with strong values, smart kids and an increasingly competitive environment. And rest assured that more mistakes will be made as Northwestern Basketball becomes a more competitive environment. Again, that's life...and certainly no reason to turn my back on my favorite team.
 
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I am in full agreement with this. The umbrage of people on both sides of the argument is silly.

Of course, it is possible that NU and Chris Collins have built a solid program through a general practice of getting the right kinds of players, promoting strong values and trying to do things the right way--AND that they also make mistakes.

Anyone who tries to claim that NU is without fault is kidding themselves. Meanwhile, anyone who tries to lump NU into the same bucket as programs with consistent records of shady practices or a serious lack of institutional control is being obtuse.

As someone who runs a business and earnestly strives to do things the right way, I fully acknowledge there are situations I/we could have handled better and also some flat out mistakes that I/we have made over the years--things that could look ugly taken in isolation. But you learn from those mistakes and try to do better moving forward--and your mistakes don't negate your achievements. Nobody is perfect, no organization is perfect. This is a fact of life.

It doesn't have to be that either: a) NU/CC are perfect and Vasser was totally unreasonable OR b) NU has become a shady program and our recent achievements mean nothing.

Maybe there will be consequences with the NCAA for the handling of this situation, and maybe there should be. But heads don't have to roll. These allegations are not the worst thing in the world, and I see no real pattern as Vasser is the only CC recruit to drop/be dropped from the team. The staff and NU will learn from this and continue to move forward trying to do things the right way with strong values, smart kids and an increasingly competitive environment. And rest assured that more mistakes will be made as Northwestern Basketball becomes a more competitive environment. Again, that's life...and certainly no reason to turn my back on my favorite team.
Terrific "voice of reason" post, BDP.
 
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I am in full agreement with this. The umbrage of people on both sides of the argument is silly.

Of course it's overblown. I don't think any reasonable person could think otherwise. Nobody is claiming NU is 100% innocent, just like they weren't during the Coble case.

The crux of the issue is the narrative here; that Collins/Phillips are evil. A narrative passed by writers who are nothing more than jaded fans because they're favorite coach was fired. And their bitterness has boiled over as the program has become more successful (coming off a season where we've toppled multiple milestones). THAT'S the reality of this.

This isn't even about Vassar. It never was. Vassar was just a convenient vessel for them to crap over the remarkable season we've just had while pretending they're just "concerned" about Vassar. It's so transparent (especially if you consider their history...even pre-Vassar).
 
The crux of the issue is the narrative here; that Collins/Phillips are evil. A narrative passed by writers who are nothing more than jaded fans because they're favorite coach was fired. And their bitterness has boiled over as the program has become more successful (coming off a season where we've toppled multiple milestones). THAT'S the reality of this.

This isn't even about Vassar. It never was. Vassar was just a convenient vessel for them to crap over the remarkable season we've just had while pretending they're just "concerned" about Vassar. It's so transparent (especially if you consider their history...even pre-Vassar).

It does seem that Goren has made a decision to cling to an excuse not to acknowledge, appreciate and enjoy NU's recent success for what it is. His piece goes out of the way to attack the praise that Collins and NU have received. That seemed like a strange argument and a waste of editorial space.
 
Other than that, how was the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

That sentence made it as terrible a post as I've seen around here.

"Cuck" and "snowflake" are terms today propagated by white nationalists and the alt right.
 
That's the thing. If this was written by some unbiased writer who has shown an inkling of support for NU athletics over the last 5 years, it might be worth reading. Instead, the two main articles were written by two guys (Trahan and Ben Goren, aka Doc Jr.) who have literally hated NU basketball and athletics since the day Carmody was fired, and have had a major axe to grind since that day. They've spewed nothing but hate since day 1,and never shown any kind of support (including before the Vassar situation).

These articles are absolutely just attempted smear campaigns out of bitterness. The Vassar situation has simply been a vessel that's been manipulated for the sake of hating Collins and Phillips by jaded former fans. That's the truth. These guys are pathetic and just need to move on with their lives.
While this may or may not be true, smearing the messenger just makes NU look more guilty.
 
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Julie Decaro invited Trahan on ESPN radio tonight. I can't imagine what that interview was like. Part of me is waiting for the barstool guys to hop on this and destroy Trahan (the stoolies are not fans of Julie)
Julie's on the Score, not ESPN. Julie is an exciting new voice in Chicago sportstalk. an unabashed female perspective who actually seems to know sports. I'm glad the Score took a chance on her. I don't know who "the barstool guys" are, but I can't say I'm surprised that guys who take that moniker might be threatened by Julie's style.
 
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I don't have a big gripe with him. He was not exactly treated well by CCC. But I am probably most amused by the fact that all the work he did that he found so "demeaning", like picking up trash, raking leaves, etc. was stuff I did for $5 an hour to get spending money. Heck, I cleaned my fraternity's kitchen grease trap and unclogged toilets for a year so I could go to Hawai'i over break. I was happy to do it. I guess I am old. and times have changed.
I dont think it is clear if Collins treated Vasser unfairly. Thats one version only. NU thinks the case has no merit.
 
No....not really. YOU'RE the one complaining about HIS post. I'm perfectly happy with it. No problem here.

Yeah...I don't mean the post being a problem (which it is). When I said, "that's your problem", I mean the problem with you. You shouldn't be perfectly happy with the line in the post people are taking umbrage with. If, you're perfectly happy with the post, that's your problem and there's plenty of problem there.
 
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Yeah...I don't mean the post being a problem. I mean the problem with you. You're perfectly happy with it. That's more of your problem. Plenty of problem there.

I'm sorry you got triggered. lol

Admit it, you miss Carmody, don't you?
 
I'm sorry you got triggered. lol

Admit it, you miss Carmody, don't you?

You are truly pathetic. I'm grateful for all Coach Carmody did for NU, but I don't miss athletic coaches I didn't play for. And I'm thrilled with the work Coach Collins has done. Look at the board and you'll find lots of support for all NU coaches from me.

A really weak attempt by you to try to deflect from the white nationalist dreck you are apparently supporting though. Pathetic really. But, then that's your problem.
 
You are truly pathetic. I'm grateful for all Coach Carmody did for NU, but I don't miss athletic coaches I didn't play for. And I'm thrilled with the work Coach Collins has done. Look at the board and you'll find lots of support for all NU coaches from me.

A really weak attempt by you to try to deflect from the white nationalist dreck you are apparently supporting though. Pathetic really. But, then that's your problem.

Lol. You get worked up anytime Carmody is brought up. Too funny...
 
Of course it's overblown. I don't think any reasonable person could think otherwise. Nobody is claiming NU is 100% innocent, just like they weren't during the Coble case.

The crux of the issue is the narrative here; that Collins/Phillips are evil. A narrative passed by writers who are nothing more than jaded fans because they're favorite coach was fired. And their bitterness has boiled over as the program has become more successful (coming off a season where we've toppled multiple milestones). THAT'S the reality of this.

This isn't even about Vassar. It never was. Vassar was just a convenient vessel for them to crap over the remarkable season we've just had while pretending they're just "concerned" about Vassar. It's so transparent (especially if you consider their history...even pre-Vassar).
How is this even an arguable point? It's so obvious.

There's nothing new of substance in the story. Just trying to take advantage of the timing of our season.

Now when will one of those "journalists" break the story I've been wondering for years -- why did their hero-coach run off one of the best players in our history?
 
This thread is providing a good look at the depths of NU fandom.
"Depths" is a good descriptor. Bit of an outlier effect here with all the noise scurried up by a relative few. Tempest in a teapot, IMO. Vassar got shafted, but I don't think most people care that much because it's hard to see any real damage when he decided to remain at NU for his degree. Maybe someone committed some type of crime in trying to usher him out, but the notion that he suffered great harm is hard to accept.
 
"Depths" is a good descriptor. Bit of an outlier effect here with all the noise scurried up by a relative few. Tempest in a teapot, IMO. Vassar got shafted, but I don't think most people care that much because it's hard to see any real damage when he decided to remain at NU for his degree. Maybe someone committed some type of crime in trying to usher him out, but the notion that he suffered great harm is hard to accept.
Exactly. The only real question is over the nature of tactics alleged; the level of even the alleged harm is negligible at most.
 
This thread is providing a good look at the depths of NU fandom.
Or Cuck and Snowflake are commonly used terms in most mainstream society. Listen to a barstool podcast (#1 on iTunes) and it's used constantly. Get over the liberal noise that all of these clever new words are nazi propaganda. I love it when an internet stranger calls me a Nazi, as I'm Jewish with two gay brothers. A cuck snowflake is simply somebody trying to make noise with a bunch of bullcrap.
 
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I haven't heard of a "cuck" yet. An acquaintance once started telling me how hot his wife was and enjoyed "open" relationships, but I draw the line at Manchurian porn. Cuckolding is not for me.

And the stuff about white nationalists? WTF? The voices in my own head don't even go that far.
 
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Or Cuck and Snowflake are commonly used terms in most mainstream society. Listen to a barstool podcast (#1 on iTunes) and it's used constantly. Get over the liberal noise that all of these clever new words are nazi propaganda. I love it when an internet stranger calls me a Nazi, as I'm Jewish with two gay brothers. A cuck snowflake is simply somebody trying to make noise with a bunch of bullcrap.

If it's so innocent, then why'd you delete it? ;)

And if you think that's what it means, you may want to do a little web search on your terminology to see how it's actually being employed. o_O
 
If it's so innocent, then why'd you delete it? ;)

And if you think that's what it means, you may want to do a little web search on your terminology to see how it's actually being employed. o_O
I deleted it because I accomplished my mission by Trahan highlighting it on his twitter. I know how some "think" its being employed. I also know how it's used in real life. There is no better place for its use than internet message boards
 
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