Hard to know where to start

[ricko654321]

I have intentionally avoided this board last few days bc I knew it would prob be toxic and just make me more angry. So sorry if I’m repeating ground that has already been covered elsewhere. First a mea culpa, long time ago in galaxy far before the Daily article I said a friend who volunteered at the program 10-12 years said he thought it was normal stuff that every program does. Turns out it probably wasn’t! I guess the program has changed since then…

Next this is obviously a huge embarrassment to the university and all of us. The process that has played out has been incoherent and incompetent. Our President does not appear to have the slightest clue how to manage anything or do proper communication / PR. If the information in the Daily article was new information to them (sounds like it wasn’t) - after the 6 month investigation in which the lawyers saw no discernible evidence that Fitz knew about the hazing culture - then they should have suspended him indefinitely and re-opened a new investigation to determine best course of action. If it wasn’t new information to them, then what the heck changed? If they had evidence he knew, or suspected that he knew, then the original 2 week unpaid vacation was a laughably bad decision. They had all this information, decided a 2 week unpaid vacation, then based on an article in a student newspaper (from 2 sources that must have been included in the investigative report) they completely flipped around from slap on the wrist to fire him? That is not something that a serious person does. Instead he just acquiesced to the media mob and tried to cover his rear end. Schill has bungled this 10 ways to Sunday.

Seems like at this point (far too late) the obvious course of action is to release the full report from the investigation with names redacted. It’s too little too late in terms of transparency on process but it’ll help a bit. The Jenner Block report for the Blackhawks was released with Player A and Coach B etc. The best logical defense I suppose is that the information there could give context that identifies the whistleblower to anyone paying attention? But presumably most of us on this board already have figured out or heard who that was (though I am obviously not going to disclose that!). The fact that the kid had an assertion that has been documented and audio recorded that he was “going to take down Fitz”, I mean, I dunno… at this point transparency is better for people to move forward.

For Fitz, I appreciate all the great contributions to the program you gave as a player and coach over ~30 years. I sincerely hope (and maybe even tentatively believe) that you didn’t know about this stuff. If you did either know / support this culture of weird and pretty sick hazing, or willingly turned a blind eye to it - then shame on you and I guess you got what you deserved (though maybe not in this way). Hard to know what is true in this morass of anonymously sourced media articles. At this point I kinda hope he and Dan Webb sue the university for all they can and at least bring some additional transparency to this process through judicial discovery.

I already outlined my thoughts on Schill above. He is a shill, is clearly incompetent, and should go ASAP, even if solely because of how poorly he has handled this situation. He has brought extreme embarrassment to the university through his inconsistency and incompetence.

For Gragg, I wasn’t initially as mad at him as Schill but the more that comes out the worse it looks. He either must have had some part in this decision making along the way, or from the sounds of it more likely he just dodged all accountability and responsibility for it and deferred to others. He seems like a total shirker and dodger to me at this point. He decided that a good time to release the investigation results and actions was while he was on vacation in Italy? And he was the one who hired this reportedly abusive baseball coach (or allowed a couple key donors to do it for him) despite the guy having a horrible record of forcing transfers at his prior place? He wouldn’t face the team, he hasn’t made a public comment the entire time, he basically seems to be in hiding. That’s not leadership. That’s cowardice. He should be gone too.

The whole administration and board maybe just hoped to shove this under the rug and move forward? That’s embarrassing on their part too. With the new stadium renovation on hold have to wonder if Mr Ryan has said he is pulling his check from that. Fitz does happen to be using Pat Ryan’s lawyer in Dan Webb… I mean clearly this will damage the program severely for at least 2-3 years, but that’s not even the worst of it - the worst is we still have very little idea of the facts of the matter and whether Fitz deserved to be fired!

Lastly (I could say about 100 more things about this disaster but this is very long already)- does anyone else find it funny that they already said they are keeping all assistant coaches and staff on for this year? I guess we don’t need to investigate them either, just arbitrarily make a decision and roll with it. If they actually cared about the culture and players’ mental health, wouldn’t they want to make some changes there? I mean clearly not, I guess they are worried about the practical issue of running a fall camp and fielding a team next year. It’s just a hypocritical exercise in scapegoating and trying to cover their backsides.

I never in my life thought I’d say this as a diehard fan since the age of 6, but at this point I’m debating whether I want to boycott the team (and frankly the entire university to the extent that would be a thing) for the upcoming season. Just disgusting behavior and actions all around. I know for a fact that I won’t be donating a dollar to NU as long as Schill (or probably Gragg) is still around. Not that my miniscule donations make the tiniest bit of difference. But based on people I’ve talked to I’m not the only one. I think there are gonna be some pretty small crowds for the near future. And who knows what our team will look like this upcoming season. I don’t envy David Braun trying to step into this.

Go Cats? Kind of, maybe, not sure anymore
Rick

PS just to be perfectly clear if Fitz knew about / supported / or even could have known but turned a blind eye toward those hazing actions I fully believe he should be gone. It’s not him being let go in itself that has made me so mad, it’s the process and sheer incompetence along the path to get there that is infuriating to me.

 

[NUCat320]

The former manager who willfully publicized the whistleblower’s name is a real d*ck.

 

[T_Levine]

I have intentionally avoided this board last few days bc I knew it would prob be toxic and just make me more angry. So sorry if I’m repeating ground that has already been covered elsewhere. First a mea culpa, long time ago in galaxy far before the Daily article I said a friend who volunteered at the program 10-12 years said he thought it was normal stuff that every program does. Turns out it probably wasn’t! I guess the program has changed since then…

Next this is obviously a huge embarrassment to the university and all of us. The process that has played out has been incoherent and incompetent. Our President does not appear to have the slightest clue how to manage anything or do proper communication / PR. If the information in the Daily article was new information to them (sounds like it wasn’t) - after the 6 month investigation in which the lawyers saw no discernible evidence that Fitz knew about the hazing culture - then they should have suspended him indefinitely and re-opened a new investigation to determine best course of action. If it wasn’t new information to them, then what the heck changed? If they had evidence he knew, or suspected that he knew, then the original 2 week unpaid vacation was a laughably bad decision. They had all this information, decided a 2 week unpaid vacation, then based on an article in a student newspaper (from 2 sources that must have been included in the investigative report) they completely flipped around from slap on the wrist to fire him? That is not something that a serious person does. Instead he just acquiesced to the media mob and tried to cover his rear end. Schill has bungled this 10 ways to Sunday.

Seems like at this point (far too late) the obvious course of action is to release the full report from the investigation with names redacted. It’s too little too late in terms of transparency on process but it’ll help a bit. The Jenner Block report for the Blackhawks was released with Player A and Coach B etc. The best logical defense I suppose is that the information there could give context that identifies the whistleblower to anyone paying attention? But presumably most of us on this board already have figured out or heard who that was (though I am obviously not going to disclose that!). The fact that the kid had an assertion that has been documented and audio recorded that he was “going to take down Fitz”, I mean, I dunno… at this point transparency is better for people to move forward.

For Fitz, I appreciate all the great contributions to the program you gave as a player and coach over ~30 years. I sincerely hope (and maybe even tentatively believe) that you didn’t know about this stuff. If you did either know / support this culture of weird and pretty sick hazing, or willingly turned a blind eye to it - then shame on you and I guess you got what you deserved (though maybe not in this way). Hard to know what is true in this morass of anonymously sourced media articles. At this point I kinda hope he and Dan Webb sue the university for all they can and at least bring some additional transparency to this process through judicial discovery.

I already outlined my thoughts on Schill above. He is a shill, is clearly incompetent, and should go ASAP, even if solely because of how poorly he has handled this situation. He has brought extreme embarrassment to the university through his inconsistency and incompetence.

For Gragg, I wasn’t initially as mad at him as Schill but the more that comes out the worse it looks. He either must have had some part in this decision making along the way, or from the sounds of it more likely he just dodged all accountability and responsibility for it and deferred to others. He seems like a total shirker and dodger to me at this point. He decided that a good time to release the investigation results and actions was while he was on vacation in Italy? And he was the one who hired this reportedly abusive baseball coach (or allowed a couple key donors to do it for him) despite the guy having a horrible record of forcing transfers at his prior place? He wouldn’t face the team, he hasn’t made a public comment the entire time, he basically seems to be in hiding. That’s not leadership. That’s cowardice. He should be gone too.

The whole administration and board maybe just hoped to shove this under the rug and move forward? That’s embarrassing on their part too. With the new stadium renovation on hold have to wonder if Mr Ryan has said he is pulling his check from that. Fitz does happen to be using Pat Ryan’s lawyer in Dan Webb… I mean clearly this will damage the program severely for at least 2-3 years, but that’s not even the worst of it - the worst is we still have very little idea of the facts of the matter and whether Fitz deserved to be fired!

Lastly (I could say about 100 more things about this disaster but this is very long already)- does anyone else find it funny that they already said they are keeping all assistant coaches and staff on for this year? I guess we don’t need to investigate them either, just arbitrarily make a decision and roll with it. If they actually cared about the culture and players’ mental health, wouldn’t they want to make some changes there? I mean clearly not, I guess they are worried about the practical issue of running a fall camp and fielding a team next year. It’s just a hypocritical exercise in scapegoating and trying to cover their backsides.

I never in my life thought I’d say this as a diehard fan since the age of 6, but at this point I’m debating whether I want to boycott the team (and frankly the entire university to the extent that would be a thing) for the upcoming season. Just disgusting behavior and actions all around. I know for a fact that I won’t be donating a dollar to NU as long as Schill (or probably Gragg) is still around. Not that my miniscule donations make the tiniest bit of difference. But based on people I’ve talked to I’m not the only one. I think there are gonna be some pretty small crowds for the near future. And who knows what our team will look like this upcoming season. I don’t envy David Braun trying to step into this.

Go Cats? Kind of, maybe, not sure anymore
Rick

PS just to be perfectly clear if Fitz knew about / supported / or even could have known but turned a blind eye toward those hazing actions I fully believe he should be gone. It’s not him being let go in itself that has made me so mad, it’s the process and sheer incompetence along the path to get there that is infuriating to me.

Good post

I’ll bet that this will cost the university 500m to 1b in fundraising over the next decade.

 

[ricko654321]

Good post

I’ll bet that this will cost the university 500m to 1b in fundraising over the next decade.

If Mr Ryan is pulling back, the number could easily be more than that from him alone.

 

[zeek55]

I have intentionally avoided this board last few days bc I knew it would prob be toxic and just make me more angry. So sorry if I’m repeating ground that has already been covered elsewhere. First a mea culpa, long time ago in galaxy far before the Daily article I said a friend who volunteered at the program 10-12 years said he thought it was normal stuff that every program does. Turns out it probably wasn’t! I guess the program has changed since then…

Next this is obviously a huge embarrassment to the university and all of us. The process that has played out has been incoherent and incompetent. Our President does not appear to have the slightest clue how to manage anything or do proper communication / PR. If the information in the Daily article was new information to them (sounds like it wasn’t) - after the 6 month investigation in which the lawyers saw no discernible evidence that Fitz knew about the hazing culture - then they should have suspended him indefinitely and re-opened a new investigation to determine best course of action. If it wasn’t new information to them, then what the heck changed? If they had evidence he knew, or suspected that he knew, then the original 2 week unpaid vacation was a laughably bad decision. They had all this information, decided a 2 week unpaid vacation, then based on an article in a student newspaper (from 2 sources that must have been included in the investigative report) they completely flipped around from slap on the wrist to fire him? That is not something that a serious person does. Instead he just acquiesced to the media mob and tried to cover his rear end. Schill has bungled this 10 ways to Sunday.

Seems like at this point (far too late) the obvious course of action is to release the full report from the investigation with names redacted. It’s too little too late in terms of transparency on process but it’ll help a bit. The Jenner Block report for the Blackhawks was released with Player A and Coach B etc. The best logical defense I suppose is that the information there could give context that identifies the whistleblower to anyone paying attention? But presumably most of us on this board already have figured out or heard who that was (though I am obviously not going to disclose that!). The fact that the kid had an assertion that has been documented and audio recorded that he was “going to take down Fitz”, I mean, I dunno… at this point transparency is better for people to move forward.

For Fitz, I appreciate all the great contributions to the program you gave as a player and coach over ~30 years. I sincerely hope (and maybe even tentatively believe) that you didn’t know about this stuff. If you did either know / support this culture of weird and pretty sick hazing, or willingly turned a blind eye to it - then shame on you and I guess you got what you deserved (though maybe not in this way). Hard to know what is true in this morass of anonymously sourced media articles. At this point I kinda hope he and Dan Webb sue the university for all they can and at least bring some additional transparency to this process through judicial discovery.

I already outlined my thoughts on Schill above. He is a shill, is clearly incompetent, and should go ASAP, even if solely because of how poorly he has handled this situation. He has brought extreme embarrassment to the university through his inconsistency and incompetence.

For Gragg, I wasn’t initially as mad at him as Schill but the more that comes out the worse it looks. He either must have had some part in this decision making along the way, or from the sounds of it more likely he just dodged all accountability and responsibility for it and deferred to others. He seems like a total shirker and dodger to me at this point. He decided that a good time to release the investigation results and actions was while he was on vacation in Italy? And he was the one who hired this reportedly abusive baseball coach (or allowed a couple key donors to do it for him) despite the guy having a horrible record of forcing transfers at his prior place? He wouldn’t face the team, he hasn’t made a public comment the entire time, he basically seems to be in hiding. That’s not leadership. That’s cowardice. He should be gone too.

The whole administration and board maybe just hoped to shove this under the rug and move forward? That’s embarrassing on their part too. With the new stadium renovation on hold have to wonder if Mr Ryan has said he is pulling his check from that. Fitz does happen to be using Pat Ryan’s lawyer in Dan Webb… I mean clearly this will damage the program severely for at least 2-3 years, but that’s not even the worst of it - the worst is we still have very little idea of the facts of the matter and whether Fitz deserved to be fired!

Lastly (I could say about 100 more things about this disaster but this is very long already)- does anyone else find it funny that they already said they are keeping all assistant coaches and staff on for this year? I guess we don’t need to investigate them either, just arbitrarily make a decision and roll with it. If they actually cared about the culture and players’ mental health, wouldn’t they want to make some changes there? I mean clearly not, I guess they are worried about the practical issue of running a fall camp and fielding a team next year. It’s just a hypocritical exercise in scapegoating and trying to cover their backsides.

I never in my life thought I’d say this as a diehard fan since the age of 6, but at this point I’m debating whether I want to boycott the team (and frankly the entire university to the extent that would be a thing) for the upcoming season. Just disgusting behavior and actions all around. I know for a fact that I won’t be donating a dollar to NU as long as Schill (or probably Gragg) is still around. Not that my miniscule donations make the tiniest bit of difference. But based on people I’ve talked to I’m not the only one. I think there are gonna be some pretty small crowds for the near future. And who knows what our team will look like this upcoming season. I don’t envy David Braun trying to step into this.

Go Cats? Kind of, maybe, not sure anymore
Rick

PS just to be perfectly clear if Fitz knew about / supported / or even could have known but turned a blind eye toward those hazing actions I fully believe he should be gone. It’s not him being let go in itself that has made me so mad, it’s the process and sheer incompetence along the path to get there that is infuriating to me.

Great post and the points about the assistant coaches makes a lot of sense.

Feels like we're going to get a full clearing of the football coaching staff decks at some point (probably next offseason), which makes it even worse that guys like Braun could see their careers ruined by coming here if we hire someone else and they clean everyone out. I guess that's always the risk in this profession, even Northwestern is not a safe/stable program.

And yeah, I think fundraising is ultimately why Schill will be gone. Gragg's disastrous handling of the baseball situation (with the coach he hired just a year ago) is problematic enough.

But why would any donor give money to the University with Schill in charge or to athletics with Gragg in charge there. The money reason is ultimately why both will leave at some point.

The whole thing is terrible, but I still think it's in the best interest of the University to figure out some way to push through the stadium renovation. The timing is terrible, I get that, but we need it over the next 3 years. Just no idea what the money situation looks like now and whether proposed donations to that project are being yanked or halted or what.

That's just me trying to take a "how can this get fixed by year 4 approach" when we're still on day 1 of post-Fitz. The next couple of years will be Dark Ages bad. But at this point, everything is up in the air, so who knows.

 

[Hkjb]

The handling is abysmal, and a case study in leadership on so many levels. From my very limited understanding I have to wonder if Gragg is just a passive/non-confrontational guy. That is the worst kind of person to have in an AD role, because the role by definition deals with towering egos. Got to be proactive and 'grasp the nettle' in a role like that.

Signing off a zoom call without taking questions, and failing to talk to the team first are a very clear sign that he's overwhelmed and going into hiding. As is the fact that there is no clear "interim" arrangement. He's not in the bunker with the team at a critical moment. In fact, he hung up on people in the bunker.

An investigation was done, and the allegations were salacious. The two-week 'hope it goes away strategy' strategy was pathologically optimistic. Gragg should have anticipated the scenario in which those stories hit the news, and impact reputation etc. A proactive leader would have gamed out that scenario talked truth to power in terms of the risks, and kept stakeholders like Schill, the Ryans, etc in the loop in planning for multiple possibilities. That didn't happen, so Schill/Gragg ended up making a decision in a state of reactive panic. The two-week thing was a naively optimistic reaction which failed to register the complexity and risks - not a plan.

I wish no ill on Gragg and he must be miserable. But it seems pretty clear he is not the guy for the job. In fact, weasel-like leadership from every single person involved. From Fitz's unaccountable "I didn't know" response, to Schill who is also hiding in a bunker, and to Dr. Gragg. (speaking of which, PHD's are not always the best qualification when it comes to leadership - A life in school can end up training people to believe that the political intrigue of academia is the real world)

Speaking of leadership, Fitz is an interesting study. He was in it neck deep at the start, then started to develop into a CEO role. Without other career trials and errors to learn from, in his elevation to CEO it seems he didn't learn the importance of preventing blindspots. He seemed to signal pretty openly - in fact - that he didn't touch or want to know what was happening in the locker room. Arguably, that invites the kind of thing that happened. Sad, because Fitz in so many other ways has truly been a role model for his humanity, and for how a coach should support players and people.

I don't think that any of these 3 are bad, and I'm sure each of them has some strengths in terms of how they lead. But in this case, all of their blindspots have converged in spectacular fashion.

 

[Medill '03]

Great post and the points about the assistant coaches makes a lot of sense.

Feels like we're going to get a full clearing of the football coaching staff decks at some point (probably next offseason), which makes it even worse that guys like Braun could see their careers ruined by coming here if we hire someone else and they clean everyone out. I guess that's always the risk in this profession, even Northwestern is not a safe/stable program.

And yeah, I think fundraising is ultimately why Schill will be gone. Gragg's disastrous handling of the baseball situation (with the coach he hired just a year ago) is problematic enough.

But why would any donor give money to the University with Schill in charge or to athletics with Gragg in charge there. The money reason is ultimately why both will leave at some point.

The whole thing is terrible, but I still think it's in the best interest of the University to figure out some way to push through the stadium renovation. The timing is terrible, I get that, but we need it over the next 3 years. Just no idea what the money situation looks like now and whether proposed donations to that project are being yanked or halted or what.

That's just me trying to take a "how can this get fixed by year 4 approach" when we're still on day 1 of post-Fitz. The next couple of years will be Dark Ages bad. But at this point, everything is up in the air, so who knows.

From what I’m hearing, the stadium is already off the table and fundraising is going to be an uphill climb just to keep the athletic department going as normal.

 

[zeek55]

From what I’m hearing, the stadium is already off the table and fundraising is going to be an uphill climb just to keep the athletic department going as normal.

Probably true and it will have to become public in the next month anyhow. As I've said before, only fortunate thing for the athletic department is the Big Ten media deal kicking in this year and CFP expansion; we'll really need that extra $20-30 million a year.

 

[ricko654321]

From what I’m hearing, the stadium is already off the table and fundraising is going to be an uphill climb just to keep the athletic department going as normal.

Yeah that's pretty much what I heard too on the stadium but didn't want to be overly presumptuous.

 

[pawildcat]

The sad part of this to me is that I always knew Northwestern wasn't going to be consistently tops in the B1G on a won-loss basis, but I thought I always could hang my hat on the Cats being a fighting underdog program that didn't cut corners on academics and did things the right way. Now even that consolation has gone up in smoke.

I truly think Fitz has many outstanding qualities, but you could kind of see this coming the past few years. I think the adoration over the years started to make him believe he was an institution at NU and that he was there for life. And when you come up with $270 million for a practice facility and a proposed $800 million for a new stadium at a school with fewer than 10,000 undergraduates, along with a lucrative 10-year contract extension, why wouldn't he think that? He started becoming more insular and set in his ways, and the praise and relative success he had in the job made him think he could do no wrong. His illogical hire of a defensive coordinator whose resume appeared to impress nobody except Fitz was a manifestation of that. If anything, it demonstrated the large part Mike Hankwitz played in the team's success over several years.

Having lived in Pennsylvania for a long time, I've seen something of this nature before with Joe Paterno (and before I get some snarky replies here, I'm not trying to compare the current NU scandal with Penn State). When Joe started out he was an enthusiastic and very innovative young coach who won over fans and media alike. His early defenses were so good that he once had an unbeaten and bowl-winning team with a quarterback who only threw one TD pass all season (in the last game of the regular season). He and his family contributed thousands to the school over the years — the Paterno library at PSU is a fabulous facility.

But over the years as success begat success and even a couple of national championships, you could see a change over time. He started becoming more and more sensitive to criticism, and a stubborn streak that had always been there appeared to get wider. He seemed to turn into this old and kinda cranky guy who was often stingingly sarcastic at press conferences, making it clear he sometimes found it a chore to deal with media whose questions he appeared to think were beneath him. If he had been smart he would have quite after the team's fabulous unbeaten 1994-95 season, but that just kept him pursuing the holy grail. His teams were erratic following 1995, sometimes pretty good and sometimes stunningly bad. I'll never forget going up to State College (in 2004, I think) and watching a very mediocre Randy Walker squad beat PSU and actually seem to be fully the equivalent of the Nittany Lions in talent. As time went on Paterno seemed to lose contact with his team and become a kind of body unto himself. What that resulted in has obviously been well publicized.

I do believe it is possible that Fitz did not truly know the extent of what was going on, or might not have wanted to believe there was a problem. One thing that has always puzzled me about the Penn State scandal is that it was well-known that Paterno had soured on Jerry Sandusky long before the scandal broke and basically fired him in 1999. He didn't like Sandusky and had no particular reason to defend him. The program became paramount and the first job was to protect it, no matter the consequences.

Problem is, you can't gladly accept millions to run a program and then resort to see no evil, hear no evil when things go south. The responsibility rests with you.

 

[zanycat]

I only played HS football, but good natured hazing like forced singing, skits, talent show, carrying bags is to be expected and is a rite of passage in team sports, whether right or wrong. It is when it becomes truly degrading or sexualized acts of alpha male dominance that a line is crossed and zero tolerance applies. In nature, primate groups practice social dynamic acts similar to those that allegedly took place.

In sports, life and as parents, we are supposed to protect and take care of the vulnerable and those with less power and life experience. Coach and train them to be their best, push them but not break them down. Regardless of the whistleblower’s schemes, bench riding status, and experiences as one of at least 11 victims, the hazing was happening systematically for years going back to Walker and probably Barnett and had to be seriously addressed and completely eradicated.

Regardless of the law firm report and no matter how much I personally admired Fitz’s supposed persona, as CEO he should have inquired as to what the locker room initiations consisted of, should have known, and probably did. It’s 2023 and the buck stops on his desk and he failed as a leader despite all his previous successes. The players who committed these acts still need to be disciplined / lose their scholarships. I don’t care if it’s starters and half the team, but it sounds like upperclassmen are the place to start investigating.

The university has failed on handling this on so many levels and I expect future punishments across the board. Gragg needs replaced at a minimum based on all the other AD chaos going on. Schill needs investigated for how his allowing the Friday news dump is going to cost the university a chunk of money in lawsuits from the victims and Fitz.

Heck as a student in the 90’s pre-DMCA, I got put on probation for a quarter and threatened with legal action for using the university email system unknowingly improperly. Northwestern’s holier than thou attitudes are being put to the test and as an alum I am embarrassed and sad and angry. Too much money in college football for NU to give up and could never be recovered once out of the B1G. There are ways to make this right with current societal norms, but it’s going to take a lot of public relations action, soul searching, and corrective actions by the administration, remaining coaches, and current players that stay for their education. Quaecumque sunt vera will set you free.