Michigan under NCAA investigation for stealing signs
- Thread starter mshelton33
- Start date
Every time I see a story like this I think of the famous Jerry Tarkanian quote: "The NCAA was so mad at Kentucky they gave Cleveland State two more years of probation."
ESPN GameDay is in Columbus this Saturday. Be prepared for the "MICHIGAN STOLE MY OTHER SIGN" signs.
It is wild to me that “off campus, in-person scouting of future opponents” is against the rules. I guess the All-22 gives you everything you could want.
I have no doubt that Michigan is guilty.
I have no doubt that Michigan is guilty.
I agree - if the violation is for scouting a game day. The game is on TV and the teams exchange tapes. Plus, as you say, commercial film is available (When, however?). That seems like a nearly impossible violation to police - although Michigan is about to get caught apparently. Now if a scout goes to a practice that would be wrong or if you have someone able to listen into the conversations on the sideline. Thinking about it, that could be a big problem with listening devices and, I suppose, lip readers. The simplest thing may be to allow coaches to scout teams, without aids, from the stands. Then they can make all the over simplified analysis fans make.
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The rule is apparently from the '90s and was intended "as a cost-cutting measure to bring more equity to the sport." 😂
It's very important for the NCAA to implement and enforce strong rules so that there is order and fairness in college football. 😂😂
Harbaugh of course claims no knowledge of these apparent elaborate efforts by his staff to steal signs from opponents. 😂😂😂😇
The question is, should he have known? 🤡🤣🤑
Michigan will be punished by Slippery Rock being banned from the Rose Bowl for three years.
Yeah, they're out of control. One of 'em stole my "Get off my Lawn" sign.
We know both the assistant at the center of this and his family very well. He is a great, great young man who was a big brother figure to my son through middle and high school. He won't deserve any of the scorn and irrelevant, gossipy reporting coming his way.
Yeah… most of this seems like a bunch of coaches bitching. “Michigan has a guy on staff who’s really good at picking up signals, it makes it harder to beat them.”
The only thing that would be illegal is if Michigan scouted opponents’ signals illegally, either in person at previous games or by somehow acquiring inappropriate recordings.
From an ABC News article:
"This is worse than both the Astros and the Patriots -- it's both use of technology for a competitive advantage and there's allegations that they are filming prior games, not just in-game," a Big Ten source said. "If it was just an in-game situation, that's different. Going and filming somewhere you're not supposed to be. It's illegal. It's too much of an advantage."
Stalions, a graduate of the United States Naval Academy, was hired as an off-field analyst at Michigan in May 2022, according to a bio on his LinkedIn account. In the bio, Stalions wrote that he attempts to "employ Marine Corps philosophies and tactics into the sport of football regarding strategies in staffing, recruiting, scouting, intelligence, planning and more."
Among the skills Stalions wrote about on LinkedIn were "identifying the opponent's most likely course of action and most dangerous course of action" and "identifying and exploiting critical vulnerabilities and centers of gravity in the opponent scouting process."
The language he chose to use here will undoubtedly bring scrutiny based on the accusation...although knowing the NCAA, they were just perusing LinkedIn pages, saw his, and launched a full-scale investigation. #sarcasm
To be honest, for very well-resourced programs with an extremely long tail of enthusiasts who can procure any version of an "assistant coach" title, it wouldn't surprise me to know that many have elaborate sign-stealing operations going on. I'm not suggesting this is specifically happening in this case or at Michigan, but given what we've always known about the seedy underbelly of recruiting, what reason would we have to think that many "elite" programs would stop at sign stealing??
"This is worse than both the Astros and the Patriots -- it's both use of technology for a competitive advantage and there's allegations that they are filming prior games, not just in-game," a Big Ten source said. "If it was just an in-game situation, that's different. Going and filming somewhere you're not supposed to be. It's illegal. It's too much of an advantage."
Stalions, a graduate of the United States Naval Academy, was hired as an off-field analyst at Michigan in May 2022, according to a bio on his LinkedIn account. In the bio, Stalions wrote that he attempts to "employ Marine Corps philosophies and tactics into the sport of football regarding strategies in staffing, recruiting, scouting, intelligence, planning and more."
Among the skills Stalions wrote about on LinkedIn were "identifying the opponent's most likely course of action and most dangerous course of action" and "identifying and exploiting critical vulnerabilities and centers of gravity in the opponent scouting process."
The language he chose to use here will undoubtedly bring scrutiny based on the accusation...although knowing the NCAA, they were just perusing LinkedIn pages, saw his, and launched a full-scale investigation. #sarcasm
To be honest, for very well-resourced programs with an extremely long tail of enthusiasts who can procure any version of an "assistant coach" title, it wouldn't surprise me to know that many have elaborate sign-stealing operations going on. I'm not suggesting this is specifically happening in this case or at Michigan, but given what we've always known about the seedy underbelly of recruiting, what reason would we have to think that many "elite" programs would stop at sign stealing??
YOU’RE GOD DAMN RIGHT I ORDERED THE CODE SCARLET AND GRAY
(Nicholson and Harbaugh are equally weird, I think.)
(Nicholson and Harbaugh are equally weird, I think.)
I'm wondering about the wording of the rule. If someone who is not on staff films a game in person and sends the video, is that considered a violation? Because the assistant is on the sidelines for games when the majority of opponents' games are being played.
Big Ten opponents were aware of 'elaborate scheme' and Michigan assistant at center of it
Big Ten opponents were aware of 'elaborate scheme' and Michigan assistant at center of it
The NCAA investigation is focused on how Michigan and one key staffer obtained information on its opponents.
sports.yahoo.com
Michigan football suspends analyst amid NCAA sign-stealing probe
Connor Stalions, a Michigan native and longtime superfan, has been named a “person of interest” in the investigation, according to ESPN
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I wonder how long before the thread is nukes as it doesn’t directly involve NUFB ….
In my opinion, no, but his contract has not been redone in light of conference championships. There was some reporting that it was about to be finished (Michigan has a bye next week) but now has been temporarily suspended.
This latest accusation, combined with the previous one (surrounding recruits who showed up during a Covid dead period), may make the NFL siren more appealing,
That being said, my opinion is that Harbaugh’s experience with the 49ers (that went south in the last year) may have taught him that all NFL opportunities are not created equal. Ownership matters (as does the GM) and in the case of the dalliance with Minnesota in early 22, the owner chose to go with a young coach (cheaper) rather than fork over several extra million for the guy who really does seemed better wired for the college game.
So, is this the tactic?
Non-Stalions staffer or volunteer films upcoming opponent’s signals in-person, and Capt. Stalions deciphers during the week?
The reporting has been fair, I think. It draws heavily from an article published about him and his superfan-to-military-to-sidelines journey. I’m sure social media trolls were less fair.
It sounds like the allegations involve recruiting guys from his network to record sidelines. We will see.
I really hate seeing him and his family go through this. I’ve seen fair reporting, but there’s been a lot of anonymous sniping from sources with obvious axes to grind.
The fact that sign stealing itself not against the rules, but the means with which they did it is the central piece of this accusation is just stupid. It is all out in the public view and much of it is on television. Everybody videos everything these days, I bet it is not hard to find video that was not instigated by Michigan for them to lake a look at to figure this stuff out.
Schiano was referring to the officiating. Some of the calls were the worst ever for a B1G game.
I’m sorry to say that he looks to be in trouble.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/38727023/u-m-staffer-bought-tickets-11-schools
I guess this guy was just a big fan of B1G football....
ESPN
"Connor Stalions, the suspended Michigan staffer at the center of the NCAA's sign-stealing probe, purchased tickets in his own name for more than 30 games over the past three years at 11 different Big Ten schools, sources at 11 different league schools told ESPN."
ESPN
"Connor Stalions, the suspended Michigan staffer at the center of the NCAA's sign-stealing probe, purchased tickets in his own name for more than 30 games over the past three years at 11 different Big Ten schools, sources at 11 different league schools told ESPN."
Not sure most people in this thread have a handle on the cheating.
Michigan had an assistant go to 30 Big Ten away games and video record the sideline for the entire game.
Not the actual game - the sideline - specifically the guys giving the signals.
They recorded the signals and later matched them up with the play that was run.
So when that team played Michigan, Michigan's sky box watched the opponents sideline, matched up the signals and knew what play their opponent was about to run.
It is blatant cheating and they should get crushed for it.
For the Michigan apologists, you show me the network broadcast that locks in 100% on the sideline guys sending in the plays and i will agree that its publicly available.
Michigan had an assistant go to 30 Big Ten away games and video record the sideline for the entire game.
Not the actual game - the sideline - specifically the guys giving the signals.
They recorded the signals and later matched them up with the play that was run.
So when that team played Michigan, Michigan's sky box watched the opponents sideline, matched up the signals and knew what play their opponent was about to run.
It is blatant cheating and they should get crushed for it.
For the Michigan apologists, you show me the network broadcast that locks in 100% on the sideline guys sending in the plays and i will agree that its publicly available.
Looks like McDonald’s doesn’t want you to have to steal fries:
Ok - missed an earlier opportunity
Ok - missed an earlier opportunity
He was hired in May of 2022. It’s not unreasonable to speculate that he proved his worth as a volunteer superfan in 2021, helping Michigan on their shocking rise from unranked to national semifinalist, and was given a paycheck as thanks.
It is highly unlikely that Harbaugh didn’t know about this. He should be suspended without pay before being forced to resign. (If his contract looks like Fitz’s contract, this would be Fire-for-cause worthy.)
“hey - dude - why are you recording the opposite sideline.” “Uhhh, errr, ummm, I’m dating the backup QBs, all of them.” “Oh, uh, good for you.”
Most interesting to me is that the universities know that he made the ticket purchases, even though they were made on third party sites. It would seem that this data shouldn’t be so easily available to them, but I never read StubHub’s 42,000-word Terms and Conditions, so I guess I’ve agreed to it.
It is highly unlikely that Harbaugh didn’t know about this. He should be suspended without pay before being forced to resign. (If his contract looks like Fitz’s contract, this would be Fire-for-cause worthy.)
“hey - dude - why are you recording the opposite sideline.” “Uhhh, errr, ummm, I’m dating the backup QBs, all of them.” “Oh, uh, good for you.”
Most interesting to me is that the universities know that he made the ticket purchases, even though they were made on third party sites. It would seem that this data shouldn’t be so easily available to them, but I never read StubHub’s 42,000-word Terms and Conditions, so I guess I’ve agreed to it.
This is a nothing sandwich. They will get penalized a few scholarships next year. After giving Penn State a pass on the death penalty the NCAA has the sanction authority of the UNITED NATIONS.
IIRC, the NCAA rules committee in 2021 recommended dropping the rule because in-game scouting offered only a minor advantage and it was costing more to enforce than it was worth. By all means, enforce the rules, suspend/fire who was involved (and I still feel awful for this young man and his family, because they really are great people), but the cries to dismantle the program don't match the NCAA's attitude about the rule itself.
This should shock nobody, but a coach who consults with college teams (he has 22K followers, so apparently is pretty well known) said the NCAA really should be investigating Ohio State for what they do. He works with teams preparing for OSU to disguise their communication.
Yeah dude, the only thing that is illegal is the thing that is illegal and what people are alleging.
