Though making Mac a 30 mpg player and not having to hold on for dear life when he sits would also be fantastic.
Moore to visit NU
- Thread starter CoralSpringsCat
- Start date
Too soon. Mac is already really good and will hopefully get better. Law and Moore are unknown quantities at this point, but have the potential to be really good.
Nah. Moore is a top shelf talent.
Adding the #1 prospect from Illinois would change things. I wouldn't expect him to be a star, but consider this:
Some issues with the current roster:
No secondary ball handler. Not enough players that create their own shot. Potential spacing problems on offense. Secondary plus defenders. Depth at the 1.
Adding Moore with BMac likely solves 3 of the 5 issues I pointed out. Shoot, just being able to get Bryant 8 to 10 mins of rest per game may significantly improve the 2016-17 squad.
For sure. I'd personally be thrilled if Brown could just bring what Demps brought as a redshirt frosh, 5 or so minutes of instant offense.
Another benefit of bringing in Moore is that you could potentially redshirt Brown. You already have Lindsay, Ash, and possibly Law as options when Bryant or Charlie would need a breather.
Depth is a wondrous thing that NU fans are just now becoming acquainted with.
Moore and Brown are both going to be true freshman. IL Mr. Bball means great POTENTIAL, let's review the list:
2016 Charlie Moore Morgan Park High School, Chicago 221 Uncommitted
2015 Jalen Brunson Adlai E. Stevenson High School, Lincolnshire 552 Villanova
2014 Jahlil Okafor Whitney M. Young Magnet High School, Chicago 492 Duke 2015 NBA draft: 1st Round, 3rd Pick - Philadelphia 76ers
2013 Jabari Parker Simeon Career Academy, Chicago 315 Duke 2014 NBA draft: 1st Round, 2nd Pick - Milwaukee Bucks
2012 Jabari Parker Simeon Career Academy, Chicago 400 Duke 2014 NBA draft: 1st Round, 2nd Pick - Milwaukee Bucks
2011 Ryan Boatright East Aurora High School, Aurora 257 Connecticut
Chasson Randle Rock Island High School, Rock Island Stanford
2010 Jereme Richmond Waukegan High School, Waukegan 455 Illinois
2009 Brandon Paul Warren Township High School, Gurnee 337 Illinois
2008 Kevin Dillard Homewood-Flossmoor High School, Flossmoor 228 Southern Illinois (transferred to Dayton after sophomore season)
2007 Derrick Rose Simeon Career Academy, Chicago 720 Memphis 2008 NBA draft: 1st round, 1st pick - Chicago Bulls
2006 Jon Scheyer Glenbrook North High School, Northbrook 1187 Duke
2005 Julian Wright Homewood-Flossmoor High School, Flossmoor 645 Kansas 2007 NBA draft: 1st round, 13th pick - New Orleans Hornets
2004 Shaun Livingston Peoria Central High School, Peoria 1056 2004 NBA draft: 1st round, 4th pick - Los Angeles Clippers
2003 Shannon Brown Proviso East High School, Maywood 887 Michigan State 2006 NBA draft: 1st round, 25th pick - Cleveland Cavaliers
2002 Dee Brown Proviso East High School, Maywood 952 Illinois 2006 NBA draft: 2nd round, 46th pick - Utah Jazz
2001 Eddy Curry Thornwood High School, South Holland 1443 2001 NBA draft: 1st round, 4th pick - Chicago Bulls
2000 Darius Miles East St. Louis High School, East St. Louis 217 2000 NBA draft: 1st round, 3rd pick - Los Angeles Clippers
1999 Brian Cook Lincoln High School, Lincoln Illinois 2003 NBA draft: 1st round, 23rd pick - Los Angeles Lakers
1998 Frank Williams Manual High School, Peoria 1049 Illinois 2002 NBA draft: 1st round, 25th pick - Denver Nuggets
1997 Sergio McClain Manual High School, Peoria 1361 Illinois
1996 Ronnie Fields Farragut Academy, Chicago 1270 Undrafted - Went pro for La Crosse Bobcats of the CBA
1995 Kevin Garnett Farragut Academy, Chicago 1443 1995 NBA Draft: 1st round, 5th pick - Minnesota Timberwolves
1994 Jarrod Gee St. Martin de Porres High School 658 Illinois
1993 Rashard Griffith King College Prep High School, Chicago 1329 Wisconsin 1995 NBA Draft: 2nd round, 38th pick - Milwaukee Bucks
1992 Chris Collins Glenbrook North High School, Northbrook 1195 Duke
1991 Howard Nathan Manual High School, Peoria 822 DePaul
1990 Jamie Brandon King College Prep High School, Chicago 826 Louisiana State
1989 Deon Thomas Simeon Vocational High School, Chicago 959 Illinois 1994 NBA Draft: 2nd round, 28th pick - Dallas Mavericks
1988 Eric Anderson St. Francis de Sales High School, Chicago 1490 Indiana
1987 Marcus Liberty King College Prep High School, Chicago 1286 Illinois 1990 NBA Draft: 2nd round, 42nd pick - Denver Nuggets
1986 Nick Anderson Simeon Vocational High School, Chicago 876 Illinois 1989 NBA Draft: 1st round, 11th pick - Orlando Magic
1985 Ed Horton Lanphier High School, Springfield 1735 Iowa
1984 Brian Sloan McLeansboro High School, McLeansboro 1303 Indiana
1983 Marty Simmons Lawrenceville High School, Lawrenceville 2056 Indiana (transferred to Evansville after sophomore season)
1982 Bruce Douglas Quincy Senior High School, Quincy 1700 Illinois
1981 Walter Downing Providence Catholic High School, New Lenox 1301 DePaul (transferred to Marquette after sophomore season)
Oh the last 10 years, 3 went pro. None of the rest really did much. While there are a spattering of recognizable names, I would be curious to learn how many emerged as stars in their freshman year. Also, note the point totals. Moore is second lowest to Darius Miles - so he wasn't a consensus pick.
I would love to get Moore - but I really think all the reliance and hope on freshman is ridiculous. If a freshman at NU can contribute, that's special and the exception. But we should not be building our hopes around that premise. I still Law and Falzon could emerge to be great players at NU. Unfortunately, all the build up around followed by pedestrian seasons for these FRESHMEN suggests they aren't very good. I think the expectations are unfair.
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Most (if not all) these players went on to play at historically elite programs (if they went to college) and didn't stick around for 4 years. It'll be a different situation at NU.
Reread my initial response. I never said Moore would need to be a star from day 1 (I'm not Ecat : )). I never said he should be compared to early entries of the past. I never said he would need to "have all the reliance and hope" put on him.
I did say Charlie is top shelf talent (which to me means around the top 50 or so players in his recruiting class) and I believe he is.
NU has got valuable production from signifantly less hyped recruits as freshman. Expecting Moore to start, provide a good handle and being able help to space the floor, isn't crazy. I'd imagine most teams recruiting him would expect the same. His presence alone solves the depth issue at the 1.
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Seems like your ignoring or missing some very big time players. Let's start with Burnson and follow with Okafor and Parker. Any of those three who didn't star as a freshman? Let's add Rose, Garnett and Currry. Don't think any of those three would have started and starred at NU? Then could add Wright, Livingston and Dee Brown and let's not forget one Chris Collins. That is a pretty impressive list and even if you don't think they did much, most people would disagree.
Yup - got me - I fixed it. And Bryant was an exception. And he hit the wall halfway through the conference season and was a fraction of the player.
You are cherry picking willy. I can do that too. Did you have Boatright on your fantasy NBA team this year? Heck, I can cherry pick handsomely looking only at the last ten years.
I'm not saying that Moore could not come in and excel from Day 1. Mac did. Falzon did not, nor Law, or Vassar, remember Lindsey, and so forth and so on. All I'm saying is to not assume that he could he even win the starting spot or that his mere presence makes our 1-3 really good. I think he should be told - you will get every chance to win the open guard spot versus Lindsey, Ash, Brown and maybe Law. No guarantees, and no expectations from us. And if he rocks our lineup, then we are probably skipping the NIT and heading to NCAA, as that would fill a big hole.
But let's not jump ahead. Mac, TBD, TBD, Falzon, Pardon is your likely starting five, unless DNP really makes a strong showing.
That list jogs a lot of memories.
I remember when Bobby Knight sat for a King game to see his recruit Marcus Liberty. Liberty had a breakaway so he tried a 360 dunk. He spun around and the ball only made it half way over the rim. The entire crowd looked over to Knight who sat stone-faced.
I remember when Bobby Knight sat for a King game to see his recruit Marcus Liberty. Liberty had a breakaway so he tried a 360 dunk. He spun around and the ball only made it half way over the rim. The entire crowd looked over to Knight who sat stone-faced.
You're the one cherry picking...Boatright had an excellent college career. Did you even read the link you provided? Won a National Championship and was all AAC his senior year. Would love to have a player of his quality at NU.
He also played 30 minutes per game for UConn as a true freshman, averaging 10 points 4 assists and 3 rebounds.
I would take it.
Admittedly never heard of him. But ok, let's see how it plays out. First, we have to sign Moore and find a scholarship.
DISAGREE! I would make that promise in a second. I don't think it has to be either/or with McIntosh and Moore. There are 200 player-minutes to divvy up.
I disagree with this, as long as the team can win some games, and I think in this case, the team has enough returning talent to be competitive, provided we add one more scorer/playmaker.
This won't be Walters/Holmes/Nixon in the offing. We have a young coach, a bunch of returning guys who will see major minutes, and a conference that has some turnover at Iowa, MSU, OSU.
Boatwright is a city kid who started at Curie H.S. and then transferred to, I think Aurora E or W. Was considered one of the top players in the state. If Moore could bring to NU what Aguirre did at DePaul years ago, it could be a game changer for the program.
Your evaluation is absurd (and I'm the only one here who likes what you write...
) There are two busts - defined as 'did not contribute to a very good college team (or go pro out of high school) - there. That's Dillard and Richmond. Randle was a four year starter at Stanford, (though a four year starter who got his coach fired...CBC was one of his first offers, out of Rock Island). Brunson just started as a freshman on a national championship team.If you get the Illinois player of the year, and he does not go to the university of Illinois (Richmond was a bust, and Paul was 'just okay'), and he does not go to southern Illinois (that must have been a down year for Illinois hoops), and he does not suffer a spinal (I think) injury in a car accident (I think) just before following his former teammate directly to the nba, you'll probably get a really good college player.
Moore would be a spectacular get.
Your evaluation is absurd (and I'm the only one here who likes what you write...
If you get the Illinois player of the year, and he does not go to the university of Illinois (Richmond was a bust, and Paul was 'just okay'), and he does not go to southern Illinois (that must have been a down year for Illinois hoops), and he does not suffer a spinal (I think) injury in a car accident (I think) just before following his former teammate directly to the nba, you'll probably get a really good college player.
Moore would be a spectacular get.
I agree he would be a spectacular get, highest rank get too. I'm just very reluctant to put hopes on a single true freshman arriving at NU to turn a non-NIT team into a NCAA team in the B1G. Every incoming freshman has been guaranteed to save the program.
And I was looking to show how many of these Mr IL guys were stars their first year out of HS against stiffer competition.
And I finally have a friend and you are now the next target for the koolaid klan.
Falzon, Law, Vassar, Lindsey and Mac... none of them would have started for Carolina, Duke, or any powerhouse. Mac would have gotten minutes. Maybe Law depending on the depth.
You can't act like Illinois POY is similar to "best NU recruit in years." Our program is still the butt of jokes and we do back flips over 4-star players who weren't even pursued by the Dukes and Kentuckys of the world.
At least you're honest but really pontificating about Charlie Moore but you've never even heard of boatright? Not only was he the Illinois POY he was a key player on a team that won the NCAA championship. Any credibility you might have had is long gone. How about evaluating the player instead of these wind bag correlations to the ghosts of Illinois POY past. Unless you've seen Moore play what do you have to offer?
that's a little harsh
it's conceivable Law or B Mac may turn out to be better than a former IL POY....who's coaching NU
and we should be doing back flips for these recruits....never has there been a run of bringing in this level and volume of talent since the sixties
no, we're not in the mix for the one and done. But those are different schools with different values
For what it's worth, seeing that list of names is tremendously valuable. So few busts, so many really good players, so many first round draft picks, one certain basketball hall of famer (though not really a Chicagoan/an Illinoisan). Most importantly, a uniform floor of quality, especially since the 90s. (If Moore only turned out to be as good a guard as Jarrod Gee was a forward, Moore be one of NU's top 25 guards ever. And Gee was basically a disappointment.)
Thanks, Bob, you're a hero.
Boatwright committed to USC before his first high school game. I think to KON. He made the right choice.
Hurls was a fraternity brother of mine. You are right on. Great guy, a tweener, and better than you might thinks in spite of lack of quickness and size. Great memories. Give me some more "cow"
Medill, I disagree with that. Foster brought in some major talent. They just didn't stay. Falk brought in great area talent but some of them suffered major injuries.
I mean, Foster signees and future NBA players Rex Walters and Evan Eschmeyer are tough to top.
Never heard of Ryan Boatright means it's just really hard to take anything you have to say here seriously. And if you think a Jalen Brunson type get would be bad for Northwestern .... that shreds whatever little credibility you have after that first statement.
Actually, that list is a pretty good indication that Moore would be as big a recruit as we've had here in at least 25 years. Maybe not the most highly ranked, but certainly as far as changing the dynamics of recruiting in Illinois.
Getting Moore would be like giving Collins a full war chest on the recruiting trail. He could fully leverage that for several recruiting cycles.
I'll cede that point to you. I was mostly out of the country when Foster was coaching so it's a gaping hole in my NU knowledge.
I tend to revert to the late 70's early 80's Falk teams as the best recruiting. I think so far, Collins beats them.
But the point stands. There's reason to be excited about the recruiting.
I admittedly do not watch HS bball and never said I do. I don't claim to have any additional info about any of these recruits. I have watched tons of NU bball and a fair amount of the NCAA and NBA. I can't say that I have ever really come to know the names of players outside those on my teams. I don't play fantasy bball. My interests focuses more on team efforts and results - from my wagering days to my booking days. I looked down the list and asked "How many of these guuys excelled at their next level one year out of HS?" Instead of responsive replies, most of you bash be and talk about how many great players are on the list. Super - what did they do in year one?
So for WCF and the klan, I have nothing to offer. That won't stop me from pontificating my thoughts based on watching and playing. Freshman at NU are rarely B!G starting level players - simple fact. Those that are - are rare and often hit the wall. I have never intended to diminish the value of landing Moore - screw those of you putting words in my mouth. I do take issue with the annual anointment of our freshmen saviors.
Moore MAY come to NU and then MAY start and then MAY be a star - but that's a lot of MAYs. Just like all those IFs spouted off my the koolaid klan clamoring about the NCAAs next year. Reality - if Moore comes here, he will be the highest ranked recruit ever and probably start. Absent judicious PT not seen in Mac's freshmen year, he will probably hit the wall before the BTT. Regardless, I would expect us in a post season tournament. Without Moore or another player, we are most likely going to be shut out again and re-visit the B1G disrespect titillating thread instead.
Never said that.
Freshman at NU are rarely B!G starting level players - simple fact. Those that are - are rare and often hit the wall. I have never intended to diminish the value of landing Moore - screw those of you putting words in my mouth.I do take issue with the annual anointment of our freshmen saviors.
This thread is sidetracked enough so this response will it from me on this, but in addition to your weird political tangent toward me a week or so ago (which you're justification was "all is fair"), how about this?
Truncated version of my posts (just to save space): "...Moore is the #1 prospect in Illinois, I wouldn't expect him to be a star...adding Moore with BMac likely solves 3 of the 5 issues I pointed out. Shoot, just being able to get Bryant 8 to 10 mins of rest per game may significantly improve the 2016-17 squad...if Brown could just bring what Demps brought as a redshirt freshman..."
Your response (after the incomplete assessment of the Illinois POY list): "...but I really think all the reliance and hope on freshman is ridiculous. If a freshman at NU can contribute, that's special and the exception. But we should not be building our hopes around that premise."
Where was I building all hope around Moore? I simply said his presence eliminates the depth issue, he's a point guard (thus a ball handler), and his athletic and driving ability would help space the floor by opening up room on the outside. His athletic ability and success at the high school level are undeniable.
You seem to fabricating this theme of "stopping expecting incoming freshman to be the saviors" when nobody is really doing that. Everybody knows the success of the 2016-17 team much more dependent on improvement from guys like Lindsay, Pardon, and Skelly, as well as getting Law back to full strength.
FWIW: Moore, Coble, Crawford (POY), Sobo, BMac all earned BIG freshman honors. Freshman contributors aren't as rare as you think.
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You edited gcg quote to say the group would be really good. Nitpicking perhaps - but I still say that you cannot count on true freshmen. I liked gcg's post stating they would be good - but felt you took it where we always seem to go - freshman savior land.
In my 'incomplete assessment.' I simply tried to point out that plenty of Mr IL POY do not put up spectacular years right out of HS. Somehow, that was twisted into me not wanting Moore, thinking he wasn't very good, stating that IL POYs suck and all that garbage.
Simple point was that one year out of HS rarely results in stardom. Mac was really good as a frosh - for the first half. Then he fell off. Not sure who he had to beat out in the B1G among freshmen starters - but he was named ALL B!G. Or second team. Or third team. He did really good - for a freshman. Just like Sobo did. Russell and Trimble also won All B1G honors - so it is absolutely possible for a freshman to emerge as a star. But rarely. And at NU?
Someone already noted that Moore needs to bulk up, probably needs to develop his jump shot. If he comes here, his stardom is year one is no sure thing, IMHO.
If Moore walks in and plays to one and done level - I, and everyone here, will be ecstatic. But the regular freshman hype that comes around every year - well, I temper it.
