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Most Indispensable Player

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NJCat

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Mar 8, 2016
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Fitzphile said:
The ESPN Big 10 blog is giving their opinion of the most indispensable player for each team this week. My take for the Cats is Thorson. He isn't the best player on the team, but losing the only experienced QB would doom NU this season. If JJ or Ant or Harris go down, that would be bad. But losing Thorson? Killer.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/133322/most-indispensable-player-minnesota-golden-gophers
Click to expand...

No doubt about it. For NU this season it is Thorson.
 
I would go Jackson. I understand Long, Anderson, and others might be able to pick up the slack if he went down, but JJ was literally the only reason our offense moved at times in 2015. The hoped-for improvement from Thorson and the WRs could/should cover up some of that in 2016, but Jackson is the foundation around which much of the offense will continue to be built.
 
Fitzphile said:
The ESPN Big 10 blog is giving their opinion of the most indispensable player for each team this week. My take for the Cats is Thorson. He isn't the best player on the team, but losing the only experienced QB would doom NU this season. If JJ or Ant or Harris go down, that would be bad. But losing Thorson? Killer.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/133322/most-indispensable-player-minnesota-golden-gophers
Click to expand...

Easy it is Thorson because we literally have no experience on the field behind him. Ant, JJ, Harris would be very big blows that would be very difficult to overcome but at least their back up have a little experience.
 
After looking over who the next man up is, I think that there is a much bigger drop-off at QB than at RB, DB or LB. So Thorson. But wouldn't want to lose any of these guys as they are the heart of the team.
 
Fitzphile said:
The ESPN Big 10 blog is giving their opinion of the most indispensable player for each team this week. My take for the Cats is Thorson. He isn't the best player on the team, but losing the only experienced QB would doom NU this season. If JJ or Ant or Harris go down, that would be bad. But losing Thorson? Killer.

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/133322/most-indispensable-player-minnesota-golden-gophers
Click to expand...

ESPN went with Justin Jackson the Ball Carrier. I'd put him behind CT and Ant, and it's not even close. Warren could carry the load if JJ went down. Clayton gets hurt and the season is over.
 
No question Thorson! JJ is very good, but his back ups are also good. I'm telling you right now since the very first time I saw Moten on tape, he's REALLY GOOD!
 
mybrotha said:
No question Thorson! JJ is very good, but his back ups are also good. I'm telling you right now since the very first time I saw Moten on tape, he's REALLY GOOD!
Click to expand...
I had a chance to watch both Zeke Elliott and Moten play in High School on multiple occasions. Moten wasn't quite at Zeke's level, but he is pretty darn close. i think my comparison then was that Zeke was a little bit more powerful and shiftier, but Moten had more explosive speed. In college Zeke became such a great complete player (I especially liked his blocking on every play he didn't touch the ball); if Moten can develop like that, he'll play on Sundays. John Burroughs has another very good running back with some size and speed - I saw him once last year and was impressed; I'm looking forward to seeing him this year to see how he's developed.
 
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Justin Jackson the Ball Carrier. I'm a big fan of WML and Vault, but JJ is the man.

With all due respect to Thor and his future, we won 10 games last year with one of the worst performing QB's in FBS. I think he will improve and I support him, but, no, it ain't him. It's JJTBC
 
Windy City Cat Fan said:
Didn't NU win 10 games last year with a QB starting with less experience than Aviliti has now? I'd say walker personally
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I'd have to go with Walker too. The QB is the most important position because he touches the ball every play. MLB is a pivotal position but plays often go away from the MLB especially when he MLB is very good. In NU's case the MLB of one of the best D in the B1G, who people say may be good enough to be drafted early, is a more important player than the QB of one of the worse O's in the B1G in spite of having some great RB's.
 
Fitzphile said:
Do you think NU wins 10 games last season with either Alviti or Oliver as QB?

I don't.
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Neither do I. Ant is the best player and will leave for the draft after this year. JJ is a flat out stud and number 2 on the list. Harris despite not being an ideal size will play in the league. However, the question was most indispensable and that is Clayton. People think because our O stunk, we could put anyone at QB and still have got 10 wins last year, sorry but that just isn't true. Clayton is being way undersold for what he contributed to many of those wins.
 
Purple Pile Driver said:
Neither do I. Ant is the best player and will leave for the draft after this year. JJ is a flat out stud and number 2 on the list. Harris despite not being an ideal size will play in the league. However, the question was most indispensable and that is Clayton. People think because our O stunk, we could put anyone at QB and still have got 10 wins last year, sorry but that just isn't true. Clayton is being way undersold for what he contributed to many of those wins.
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I'll just say it. I'm one of the people. Thorson was poorly handled IMO. He got shell shocked in the losses and I don't believe that was good for him. I would have rather had ZO be QB. I think he is more of a gamer and never got his shot during real play except for the Illinois game in 2015 where every one was hurt.
IMO ZO never got a real game chance and that is one reason we are struggling to recruit QB's.

I hope for NU's and Thorson's sake that Thorson is somewhat improved this year to validate last year's investment and ZO's snub.
 
Deeringfish said:
I'll just say it. I'm one of the people. Thorson was poorly handled IMO. He got shell shocked in the losses and I don't believe that was good for him. I would have rather had ZO be QB. I think he is more of a gamer and never got his shot during real play except for the Illinois game in 2015 where every one was hurt.

IMO ZO never got a real game chance and that is one reason we are struggling to recruit QB's.

I hope for NU's and Thorson's sake that Thorson is somewhat improved this year to validate last year's investment and ZO's snub.
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You seriously think that (1) Oliver threw, what, 5 INTs against Illinois because everyone was hurt and (2) Oliver not playing is somehow affecting our QB recruiting? Seriously?
 
Deeringfish said:
I'll just say it. I'm one of the people. Thorson was poorly handled IMO. He got shell shocked in the losses and I don't believe that was good for him. I would have rather had ZO be QB. I think he is more of a gamer and never got his shot during real play except for the Illinois game in 2015 where every one was hurt.
IMO ZO never got a real game chance and that is one reason we are struggling to recruit QB's.

I hope for NU's and Thorson's sake that Thorson is somewhat improved this year to validate last year's investment and ZO's snub.
Click to expand...

Wow! A strong candidate for Silliest Post of the Month.
 
Deeringfish said:
I'll just say it. I'm one of the people. Thorson was poorly handled IMO. He got shell shocked in the losses and I don't believe that was good for him. I would have rather had ZO be QB. I think he is more of a gamer and never got his shot during real play except for the Illinois game in 2015 where every one was hurt.
IMO ZO never got a real game chance and that is one reason we are struggling to recruit QB's.

I hope for NU's and Thorson's sake that Thorson is somewhat improved this year to validate last year's investment and ZO's snub.
Click to expand...

Everyone favorite player is the backup QB. ZO might be the nicest guy on the team and I have no intent of dragging him through the mud, but his mobility was problematic for how we could protect. He got sacked more times in 3 quarters against PSU than Clayton did in any full game. Do do you really think he would have ran for 5 TD's or broke off any 50 yard runs to turn around games? ZO was a change of pace QB that had a better than average arm that tended to make him a gunslinger that took a lot of chances throwing into coverage. Clayton played because he was our best option. No snub. I'll just say IMO If he stays healthy, Clayton will leave NU with more victories than any other QB at NU in the last 50 years ( I don't go back further than that).
 
Matt Harris.
His experience solidifies the back side of the defense which will allow the front seven to play more aggressively.
 
Gladeskat said:
Wow! A strong candidate for Silliest Post of the Month.
Click to expand...

I'm just really frustrated with our QB play. It is made worse actually by the success (and I'm really happy for him and the Cats by association) that Trevor is having with the Broncos. Trevor and Clayton are supposed to have "all the tools" but I miss the play we got out of many previous QB's especially Persa and Kafka and even He Who Should Not Be Named.

I do think it impacts recruiting and my evidence is, when our QBs; Persa, Kafka, and Colter were putting up numbers and having success we recruited Trevor and two 4 stars in a row. Production at QB has been down the past few years (in spite of how good they are) and we can't seem to get a second look from highly rated (perhaps overrated but that is another discussion) QBs.

We have an outstanding Defense and before I say our QB is the most important player on the team, I want his resume' to be more than "He did what to took not to hurt us." or "He was an excellent game manager."
 
Deeringfish said:
I'm just really frustrated with our QB play. It is made worse actually by the success (and I'm really happy for him and the Cats by association) that Trevor is having with the Broncos. Trevor and Clayton are supposed to have "all the tools" but I miss the play we got out of many previous QB's especially Persa and Kafka and even He Who Should Not Be Named.

I do think it impacts recruiting and my evidence is, when our QBs; Persa, Kafka, and Colter were putting up numbers and having success we recruited Trevor and two 4 stars in a row. Production at QB has been down the past few years (in spite of how good they are) and we can't seem to get a second look from highly rated (perhaps overrated but that is another discussion) QBs.

We have an outstanding Defense and before I say our QB is the most important player on the team, I want his resume' to be more than "He did what to took not to hurt us." or "He was an excellent game manager."
Click to expand...

Throughout Trevor's NU career, the WRs were a bigger issue in our passing game.
 
There is a difference between MVP and MIP (Most Indispensable Player). Clearly the defensive MVP is Ant, and the offensive MVP is JJ. It is also clear to me that Thorson is the MIP for the upcoming season, just because his backups are nowhere near ready to fill in compared to the backups for Ant and JJ.
 
phatcat said:
do you think NU wins 10 games with WML and Vault, two very capable backups, at RB? nfw
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Yes, I do. I think there is no doubt this season that NU would win more games with JJ out than they would if CT is out. FWIW, last season WML and Solo won the Duke game with their TD runs. No back-up QB won anything for NU last season.
 
Fitzphile said:
Yes, I do. I think there is no doubt this season that NU would win more games with JJ out than they would if CT is out. FWIW, last season WML and Solo won the Duke game with their TD runs. No back-up QB won anything for NU last season.
Click to expand...
one could also say that 'no starting quarterback won anything for NU last season'. I like the kid - everything about him - and I think he will improve. But last year we mostly won in spite of him, not because of him.

Two other things - first, Vault's KOR at Duke was not from running back, and I specifically said 'at RB' and second, I hope you aren't diluting JJTBC's accomplishments because someone else (often Thorson) had the ball near the goal line.

Thorson was quite likely the 12th best starting QB in the B1G. JJTBC certainly in the top few, despite being the only offensive threat.

Also, pretty sure Zack won us a game. See PSU - unless you think JJ won us that one
 
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Bwm57 said:
Matt Harris.
His experience solidifies the back side of the defense which will allow the front seven to play more aggressively.
Click to expand...
I think that's a great call in terms of talent, but I think that depth is sufficient that NU could absorb the loss.

Even with the depth at the position, my call is for JJ. Obviously expectations are higher than *terrible* for the offense, but, if CT doesn't take off or the receivers aren't ready, JJTBC will be there to tote it 25 times, not put it on the ground, and keep chugging along. Durable is sexy.

First runner up is Ant-Man, simply because I have no idea who'd play behind him because that person has seemingly never had to play. (Fox, right?)
 
phatcat said:
Thorson was quite likely the 12th best starting QB in the B1G. JJTBC certainly in the top few, despite being the only offensive threat.
Click to expand...
Are you forgetting expansion, or are you identifying two who were less productive? (This is a serious question.)

I basically agree with you. If you start at 'below average,' what's the dropoff to 'we're not sure'?

I'm happy CT's the guy, and I loved his play for the first half of Illinois and the post-yank portion of Purdue, but you've got to be above-average to be indispensible.
 
Fitzphile said:
Yes, I do. I think there is no doubt this season that NU would win more games with JJ out than they would if CT is out. FWIW, last season WML and Solo won the Duke game with their TD runs. No back-up QB won anything for NU last season.
Click to expand...

You're underselling just how special JJ really is. He has a natural ability to read and set up blocks that is very uncommon. Long has more physicality, but not nearly the same "feel" for running the ball.

PS -- Vault won the Duke game with a kick return, not a run from scrimmage. He struggled pretty mightily running the ball last season (56 rushes for 159 yards, or 2.8 YPC; 2 rushes for 10 yards in the Duke game), which likely in part precipitated his move to WR.
 
phatcat said:
one could also say that 'no starting quarterback won anything for NU last season'. I like the kid - everything about him - and I think he will improve. But last year we mostly won in spite of him, not because of him.

Two other things - first, Vault's KOR at Duke was not from running back, and I specifically said 'at RB' and second, I hope you aren't diluting JJTBC's accomplishments because someone else (often Thorson) had the ball near the goal line.

Thorson was quite likely the 12th best starting QB in the B1G. JJTBC certainly in the top few, despite being the only offensive threat.

Also, pretty sure Zack won us a game. See PSU - unless you think JJ won us that one
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Along with the defense, Thorson won the Stanford game. Same with Nebraska. None of the other QBs on the roster can make those runs.
 
NUCat320 said:
I think that's a great call in terms of talent, but I think that depth is sufficient that NU could absorb the loss.

Even with the depth at the position, my call is for JJ. Obviously expectations are higher than *terrible* for the offense, but, if CT doesn't take off or the receivers aren't ready, JJTBC will be there to tote it 25 times, not put it on the ground, and keep chugging along. Durable is sexy.

First runner up is Ant-Man, simply because I have no idea who'd play behind him because that person has seemingly never had to play. (Fox, right?)
Click to expand...

The younger Queiro seems to be first in line after Walker.
 
Deeringfish said:
I do think it impacts recruiting and my evidence is, when our QBs; Persa, Kafka, and Colter were putting up numbers and having success we recruited Trevor and two 4 stars in a row. Production at QB has been down the past few years (in spite of how good they are) and we can't seem to get a second look from highly rated (perhaps overrated but that is another discussion) QBs.

"
Click to expand...

Of those you mention, Kafka is most similar. Limited high school experience, a developmental prospect. He was even less ready (and was not set up for success, considering both timeshare and new OC, as well as the shock of Coach Walk [10 years this summer)] than CT was when he arrived.

Persia and Colter were different - pure athletes, all wiggle, able to make plays themselves in a way that fast but not so quick big dudes like CT and MK could not /cannot. Can CT make the NFL like Kafka did? We've got three years to figure it out.

For what it's worth, Alviti more closely resembles KC and DP, but his limited time has revealed less potential than those two showed immediately.

You *cannot* use star ratings as a proxy for good quarterback recruiting. If you did, Alviti would be the best NU quarterback ever, right?
 
It's definitely thorsen. We would not have won ten games without him are we just deciding to forget that huge run against Stanford that no other qb on the roster probably has the speed to make (alviti maybe? But I thought I saw more shiftiness then straight line speed) Jackson had some very capable back ups as much as he meant to the offense and without ant hall probably steps up still and also you have Lowry and Gibson still anchoring the ends which I think was the best advantage to the defense last year was those two right there. It all starts in the trenches.
 
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