From MMQB, written by an NU grad.....
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/10/12/...tern-broncos-starter-peyton-manning-successor
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/10/12/...tern-broncos-starter-peyton-manning-successor
New Siemian Story
- Thread starter NJCat
- Start date
Fantastic article. Interesting how one game opened the door for Trevor. I will always remember the Syracuse game (I was out for dinner during the ND game) as a defining moment, though it was his first game.
I occasionally read the comments section to the Broncos blog on SB Nation. It's amazing how perception of many of their fans regarding QB quality is shaped by draft pick pedigree; Lynch is a 1st round pick while Trevor was a 7th rounder, so Lynch is the better player both short and long term. This despite their 0-1 v. 4-0 starting quarterback records, respectively. I guess it is no different than the 4* v. 2* and 3* recruit ratings that shape many college football fan attitudes.
Fabulous. "Under pressure he's cooler than the Fonz......."
I keep coming back to one play from the Gator Bowl. Game tied at 13. Mississippi State crowd roaring. We're third and ten from our own 20. Siemian is forced left out of the pocket, and coolly fires a bullet across his body to Rashad Lawrence for a first down. Three plays later, we were in the end zone, never to trail again. That, and the great pass to beat Syracuse, not to mention the surreal comeback win at Notre Dame, will be my lasting memories of Trevor.
Is it true that Trevor will start again tonite (Thursday, Oct. 13) for the Broncos? Does anyone have their eye on this? I think I heard a report that he will be coming back from his injury.
Nice story, but 2 things...
Bugs me that so many stories on Siemian highlight that slip and fall on the 2 pt conversion attempt at the end of the UM game - 2 NU blockers whiffed blocking that Michigan defender who had a clean line at Siemian; in a 2 pt conversion attempt in the Broncos-Bengals game, Siemian also ended up slipping as he tried to cut back after a Broncos blocker whiffed on his blocking assignment).
Fitz talking about Siemian not being quite suited for the O in being a pocket-passer.
Yes, Siemian is mostly a pocket-passer, but while he's certainly no running QB, he's pretty mobile and is pretty good at throwing on the run (which is one reason why the Broncos were interested in Trevor) - which is what he did in the ND game and the last quarter of the UM game.
Now, maybe Siemian wasn't quite ready for doing that early in his NU career, but he was ready to do that his last 2 seasons.
CT was more raw as a passer than I thought he would coming out of HS, but has shown good signs of improvement.
Once he starts making his reads quickly like a vet college QB, his next step is to extend plays - using his legs to set up the pass (when protection breaks down) instead of looking to tuck it and run.
Petrino is an arse (gotta love those Bible belt fans in Kentucky - turning the blind eye when it comes to their college coaches), but he's a good coach.
What Petrino did to prepare Jackson for the season was to blow the whistle every time Jackson started to tuck it and run in practice - had them do the play over w/ Jackson staying in the pocket or continuing to look downfield for a pass play if he did scramble out of the pocket.
Bugs me that so many stories on Siemian highlight that slip and fall on the 2 pt conversion attempt at the end of the UM game - 2 NU blockers whiffed blocking that Michigan defender who had a clean line at Siemian; in a 2 pt conversion attempt in the Broncos-Bengals game, Siemian also ended up slipping as he tried to cut back after a Broncos blocker whiffed on his blocking assignment).
Fitz talking about Siemian not being quite suited for the O in being a pocket-passer.
Yes, Siemian is mostly a pocket-passer, but while he's certainly no running QB, he's pretty mobile and is pretty good at throwing on the run (which is one reason why the Broncos were interested in Trevor) - which is what he did in the ND game and the last quarter of the UM game.
Now, maybe Siemian wasn't quite ready for doing that early in his NU career, but he was ready to do that his last 2 seasons.
CT was more raw as a passer than I thought he would coming out of HS, but has shown good signs of improvement.
Once he starts making his reads quickly like a vet college QB, his next step is to extend plays - using his legs to set up the pass (when protection breaks down) instead of looking to tuck it and run.
Petrino is an arse (gotta love those Bible belt fans in Kentucky - turning the blind eye when it comes to their college coaches), but he's a good coach.
What Petrino did to prepare Jackson for the season was to blow the whistle every time Jackson started to tuck it and run in practice - had them do the play over w/ Jackson staying in the pocket or continuing to look downfield for a pass play if he did scramble out of the pocket.
I may have misread the article but I don't think it was Fitz that said he wasn't quite suited for the offense, I thought that was the columnist. Trevor was hurt a lot so that did make it difficult for him to run the offense at times. More than his improved mobility in the pro's, though, I have been impressed with his pocket presence. I am sure that getting rid of the ball quickly is part of the offensive scheme with a young quarterback, but I have been really impressed with his ability to read defenses and identify where pressure is coming from. My biggest frustration with him in college was taking a sack instead of throwing the ball away on 1st and 2nd down, especially when he was hurt and couldn't outrun the defender. We had a fair amount of 3rd and 20's that I thought could have been avoided. I haven't watched every minute of every Bronco's game, but I haven't seen him take one sack that I thought was his fault. His protection is better but he deserves a lot of the credit as well.
The narrative that siemian came out of nowhere drives me nuts
Seriously, transport yourself to 2012, to the moment after siemian converted a clutch 3rd down to rashard lawrence off his back foot while getting flushed from the pocket
Everyone in the stadium thought "Hey, that could be an NFL QB one day"
His last two years were what they were, Colter was not a starter over him, but just too damn talented not to have on the field all the time.
Seriously, transport yourself to 2012, to the moment after siemian converted a clutch 3rd down to rashard lawrence off his back foot while getting flushed from the pocket
Everyone in the stadium thought "Hey, that could be an NFL QB one day"
His last two years were what they were, Colter was not a starter over him, but just too damn talented not to have on the field all the time.
He came out of nowhere for everyone but diehard NU fans. His college stat's were below average and we didn't win consistently his last couple of years. Even he questioned whether he had any chance. There are a lot of college quarterbacks who have great tools and some great games that never make an NFL roster. I am sure there are lots of fans of other teams that can point to moments when their quarterback looked like an NFL prospect.
It's a pretty amazing story. The starting quarterback for the Super Bowl champion retires and his backup signs with a new team. Has that ever happened before? So many young quarterbacks more talented than Trevor get stuck on bad teams and never properly develop because they have to try to carry the team.
My recollection is that this was not Trevor's first game. It came a year before at West Point, when he was inserted late in the game for an ineffective Kain Colter and threw a TD pass to Ebert.
That may well be true. I do remember that final drive vs. SU vividly, and the beautiful sideline pass TS threw at a critical point.
BTW, I think TS looks pretty good tonight, but the Broncos are self -destructing with penalties and turnovers. Trevor probably feels he's back at NU.
He threw a very nice end zone fade to Thomas that he couldn't quite corral. Two plays later he liked off a middle safety and then hit the seam for a TD.
He threw a very nice end zone fade to Thomas that he couldn't quite corral. Two plays later he liked off a middle safety and then hit the seam for a TD.
Trevor was "just OK," probably needed to be a bit more aggressive with the ball earlier in the game. The Broncos' OL was flat awful.
Yes, I'm aware of that but all QBs should be able to do that (roll out and make a pass).
I'm talking more about QBs who look like they are going to run for a gain, but keep their eyes downfield while drawing defenders towards them and then hitting the open man (Persa was the master at that).
As for the Chargers game, kinda ugly all around for the Broncos except for their ST, tho, after a somewhat rough 1st half (let the Chargers move the ball on them too easily, but held them mostly to FGs), the Denver D played lights out the 2nd half.
The Denver O, otoh, was abysmal the 1st half and did OK in the 2nd half, but the continued mistakes and all those holding calls was too tough to overcome.
Just the 2 holding calls which resulted in the safety (and negated a 1st down conversion) and the call-back on the TD basically made the difference; kinda amazing how the Broncos still had a chance despite all the flubs.
Seemed like Siemian was hurrying his throws in the 1st half whenever he felt pressure when normally he would take the hit in order to make a better pass.
Didn't get a good view of what was happening downfield, but looked like SD was playing a lot of zone which is tough for young QBs (Cousins still has a problem w/ the zone despite this being his 5th season in the NFL).
Denver is lacking the weapons at TE and a stout O-line which are needed to counter zone coverage.
Overall, Siemian didn't play well in the 1st half and played OK in the 2nd half.
The Broncos coaching staff also got out-coached the 1st half of the past 2 games - pretty vanilla game plan whereas their opponents brought a bunch of wrinkles.
Not surprisingly, this loss has re-ignated the non-existent QB battle.
CT was flushed out of the pocket and could just as easily lowered his head and ran. Instead, he looked downfield and found Carr open and hit him on a good throw and better catch. Seems to me that that's the sort of play he needs to make. He doesn't have the quickness of Persa to elude rushers in tight space and make the type of throws you seem to be describing here.
Siemian missed a TD opportunity in the first half when the pocket collapsed and he was knocked off balance making the throw. He also overthrew a few receivers, some for incompletions, others resulted in catches but were "not in stride" and the WR's did everything they could to catch the ball. Otherwise, he was OK and played better once the running game got going in the second half.
I think a major "wrinkle" is that the DL is not stout enough. They don't have a strong front three. Their OL was decent in the first few games but has looked horrible in past two games. I understand injuries have been a problem, but they've really sucked and that should be a major concern for the team if they want to make and go deep into the playoffs with Trevor.
Trevor still should be the starting QB without a doubt. He didn't lose his starting job tonight. I can't say the same for their offensive linemen.
Siemian missed a TD opportunity in the first half when the pocket collapsed and he was knocked off balance making the throw. He also overthrew a few receivers, some for incompletions, others resulted in catches but were "not in stride" and the WR's did everything they could to catch the ball. Otherwise, he was OK and played better once the running game got going in the second half.
I think a major "wrinkle" is that the DL is not stout enough. They don't have a strong front three. Their OL was decent in the first few games but has looked horrible in past two games. I understand injuries have been a problem, but they've really sucked and that should be a major concern for the team if they want to make and go deep into the playoffs with Trevor.
Trevor still should be the starting QB without a doubt. He didn't lose his starting job tonight. I can't say the same for their offensive linemen.
I should have caveated my comments, as I watched the last 20 minutes. He was taking what the Chargers were giving, but was able to make some throws downfield. I saw one bad throw that was pretty dangerous.
His performance clearly was not the issue last night.
His performance clearly was not the issue last night.
I felt TS look kind of tentative int he first half and wondered if he was worried about taking a it on his shoulder.
He looked like he loosened up in the second half but the Chargers D was also playing more of a prevent. If it hadn't been for the holding penalties I think he would have been named a big hero last night.
Of course guys hold because they are getting beat by a better player and w.o. the hold there might have been a sack and TS wouldn't have looked too good doing that.
He looked like he loosened up in the second half but the Chargers D was also playing more of a prevent. If it hadn't been for the holding penalties I think he would have been named a big hero last night.
Of course guys hold because they are getting beat by a better player and w.o. the hold there might have been a sack and TS wouldn't have looked too good doing that.
TS should not have played against the Chargers - was unable to throw the ball downfield due to his AC sprain and was throwing earlier than usual (which threw off timing w/ receivers) as he was anticipating getting hit.
After the game, Siemian had a bulge under his left shoulder which was a pool of collected blood.
But the Broncos coaching staff figured a hurt Siemian gave them a better chance to win a division game against the Chargers.
Gotta hand it to those Lynch-huggers who basically blamed Siemian for the loss.
Not only was Siemian playing hurt, but not many QBs can overcome an ineffective run game, 2 fumbles by receivers after catches, all those penalties (including 2 crucial holding calls which swung the game 9 pts), and a bad gameplan by the Broncos coaching staff.
It's actually pretty amazing that the Broncos may still have won the Chargers game but for the 2 holding calls which negated a TD pass and negated a completion for a 1st down/awarded 2 pts to the Chargers - despite everything else.
On that holding call which resulted in a safety, the Broncos O-line got beat by a 3 man rush.
Siemian hardly played great, but he was the least of the problem.
Part of the problem was the play-calling by the Broncos staff - they tried repeatedly to run it up the middle when the middle of the Broncos O-line kept getting pushed back.
W/o the threat of a run game, the Kubiak O is limited as it relies heavily on play-action and the bootleg, esp. as opposing D's have been putting 2 or even 3 safeties back (those calls for Siemain to throw deep under those circumstances are hilarious).
Against the Texans, the Broncos coaching staff made some adjustments by running Booker (using the toss sweep) outside the tackles, which helped to avoid the penetration up the middle.
Another big issue is that if opposing D's are going to take the long ball away, the Broncos don't have the TEs, a slot receiver or pass catching RBs to make big plays in the short/intermediate passing game (which is why they traded w/ the Pats for a TE).
Yeah, Siemian is playing it safe as a young QB, but so are Wentz and Prescott.
Note how Wentz's production has slipped as the Eagles took a hit on their O-line when Lane Johnson got suspended.
Dak is very fortunate to be playing behind the best O-line in the NFL w/ one of the best running attacks.
Prescott gets to pass when the Cowboys want to throw the ball and not when the opposing team forces them to throw the ball.
Still too early to make any final judgment on Brock Osweiler, but O'Brien and the Texans may have picked the wrong Broncos QB.
The O'Brien O is more complicated than the Kubiak O and Osweiler wasn't exactly quick w/ his reads during his time w/ the Broncos.
Siemian would have been able to pick up O'Brien's O quicker.
Wentz and Prescott are also known to be heady young QBs while it's going to take a longer time for Goff and Lynch to get up to same speed.
After the game, Siemian had a bulge under his left shoulder which was a pool of collected blood.
But the Broncos coaching staff figured a hurt Siemian gave them a better chance to win a division game against the Chargers.
Gotta hand it to those Lynch-huggers who basically blamed Siemian for the loss.
Not only was Siemian playing hurt, but not many QBs can overcome an ineffective run game, 2 fumbles by receivers after catches, all those penalties (including 2 crucial holding calls which swung the game 9 pts), and a bad gameplan by the Broncos coaching staff.
It's actually pretty amazing that the Broncos may still have won the Chargers game but for the 2 holding calls which negated a TD pass and negated a completion for a 1st down/awarded 2 pts to the Chargers - despite everything else.
On that holding call which resulted in a safety, the Broncos O-line got beat by a 3 man rush.
Siemian hardly played great, but he was the least of the problem.
Part of the problem was the play-calling by the Broncos staff - they tried repeatedly to run it up the middle when the middle of the Broncos O-line kept getting pushed back.
W/o the threat of a run game, the Kubiak O is limited as it relies heavily on play-action and the bootleg, esp. as opposing D's have been putting 2 or even 3 safeties back (those calls for Siemain to throw deep under those circumstances are hilarious).
Against the Texans, the Broncos coaching staff made some adjustments by running Booker (using the toss sweep) outside the tackles, which helped to avoid the penetration up the middle.
Another big issue is that if opposing D's are going to take the long ball away, the Broncos don't have the TEs, a slot receiver or pass catching RBs to make big plays in the short/intermediate passing game (which is why they traded w/ the Pats for a TE).
Yeah, Siemian is playing it safe as a young QB, but so are Wentz and Prescott.
Note how Wentz's production has slipped as the Eagles took a hit on their O-line when Lane Johnson got suspended.
Dak is very fortunate to be playing behind the best O-line in the NFL w/ one of the best running attacks.
Prescott gets to pass when the Cowboys want to throw the ball and not when the opposing team forces them to throw the ball.
Still too early to make any final judgment on Brock Osweiler, but O'Brien and the Texans may have picked the wrong Broncos QB.
The O'Brien O is more complicated than the Kubiak O and Osweiler wasn't exactly quick w/ his reads during his time w/ the Broncos.
Siemian would have been able to pick up O'Brien's O quicker.
Wentz and Prescott are also known to be heady young QBs while it's going to take a longer time for Goff and Lynch to get up to same speed.
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Trevor has been doing fine. He's played within the offense without recklessly challenging the defense with long throws against deep safeties. The exception was against Cincy, and he performed very well when they stacked the box and forced (and provided a golden opportunity via injury) Trevor to throw long.
Katatonic is spot on about the losses to Atlanta and San Diego. IMO, the OL has been the major problem, partly due to injuries, and it's tough to move the ball when you start drives 1st and 20 as a result of constant holding calls.
The "Lynch Mob" keeps pointing to Lynch's draft position as if it's an iron-clad guarantee that he will start, but so long as Trevor continues to play the way he has and develop with more experience, Lynch won't be seeing any starts soon. Lynch has obvious talent, but he's never directed a huddle before nor taken many snaps from under center until now. He looks awkward at times making his drops and understandably doesn't know the offense as well as Trevor does. The coaches have commented positively on Trevor's ability to digest a lot of information and large game plans quickly. They must be amused at the difference between all the fan speculation over the QB position based largely on draft position versus what they see in meetings and on the practice field. While the Lynch Mob slights Trevor, it also puts inappropriate pressure on Lynch. IMO, Denver fans should chill, appreciate that they have two good young QB's on their team, and let things play themselves out.
Katatonic is spot on about the losses to Atlanta and San Diego. IMO, the OL has been the major problem, partly due to injuries, and it's tough to move the ball when you start drives 1st and 20 as a result of constant holding calls.
The "Lynch Mob" keeps pointing to Lynch's draft position as if it's an iron-clad guarantee that he will start, but so long as Trevor continues to play the way he has and develop with more experience, Lynch won't be seeing any starts soon. Lynch has obvious talent, but he's never directed a huddle before nor taken many snaps from under center until now. He looks awkward at times making his drops and understandably doesn't know the offense as well as Trevor does. The coaches have commented positively on Trevor's ability to digest a lot of information and large game plans quickly. They must be amused at the difference between all the fan speculation over the QB position based largely on draft position versus what they see in meetings and on the practice field. While the Lynch Mob slights Trevor, it also puts inappropriate pressure on Lynch. IMO, Denver fans should chill, appreciate that they have two good young QB's on their team, and let things play themselves out.
Or have big plays or 1st down conversions negated by holding calls - which also happened in the win over the Texans.
Even more ludicrous was the criticism of Siemian in not putting up better #s against the Texans.
1st off, the Broncos finally got the running game going (by switching up their playcalling) and had the lead, so little need to take the risk of throwing down the field, esp. when the Texans still have one of the best pass rushes in the NFL and the last thing the Broncos need is for Siemian to get crunched again and re-aggravating his AC sprain.
2nd, while Siemian missed on a few throws (again, they expect perfection from a young QB, much less one playing behind a so-so O-line), he made a # of plays which got called back or weren't executed on the other end.
Should have had a 2nd TD pass if Norwood had dragged his other foot and a long pass to DT was called back on a penalty and DT dropped another pass which hit him right on the hands.
And while Siemian's left shoulder is better, it's still not healthy (and likely won't be for the remainder of the season).
I've been following him very carefully this year. It's been a long time since I've followed a pro football team like I have with the Denver Broncos this year. I may have to get NFL game pass. I really like Kubiak as a coach, how he's handled the QB competition, and how he emphasizes playing as a team. Trevor fits in nicely there.
The criticism of Trevor has been absurd. Fans complaining that he doesn't throw enough long passes, claiming he doesn't want to make those throws, and pointing towards his play at NU as an example of this reluctance.
More on Trevor. Elway says he is the leader to be starter next season:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/elway-trevor-siemian-the-favorite-to-start-in-2017/
Nice to read, but not really earth shattering that the returning starter is the favorite.
Agree. Just a counterbalance to the hand wringing about the "open QB competition" at the Joseph presser.
I don'r know Louie Lou has been seeing a pretty good showing from the new guy.. Mc Cray? If Lou isn't careful, he could go the way of some of the NU assistant coaches.
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